Dr SoulReaper

High AP Hypocrisy

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Yo high AP players... can you stop being hypocrites? You tell us lower geared players to make our own groups... at our AP lvl...fine.... you then proceed to join said groups.. look at our stats and then leave... because we dont meet your standards... so whats the point of telling us lower geared players to make our own groups when your the ones not letting us try in the first place... maybe us lower geared players should start joining your groups to mess with you... seems only fair you do it to us

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amokk   

What kinda shitty logic is this? How is that "high AP player" not letting you try?! He leaves, so that you can fill that spot. 

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Shunaia   

I understand that you're upset over the divide between whales and other high AP players, but if they join then leave, you actually have a chance at someone with even higher AP joining and staying.^^ ♡

I'm over 1K in AP now with my FM, but I still don't see myself as a high AP player, but when I recently got my highest stage Baleful weapon converted into a Raven weapon, it feels really good being able to nearly one-shot-kill most regular mobs in MSP. So far, that's all I've tried my new upgrades on, during a hectic work week. -But don't let it get you down, fella. One of these days, you'll probably be a higher AP player than some of these weiners are right now. I'm much higher now than other people I used to think we're a bit too snobby over their stats. Hehe

Then again, I always wonder how many more months or years BNS' shelf-life will last. It'll really suck, the day when this game''s servers finally close down, after the hundreds/thousands of dollars some of us have spent on this game. I mainly spent on cosmetics, but in the end, all I have now will be reduced to nothing but a memory, aka a bad investment. lol

Anyway, chin up! If I ever joined your PT, it'll be because I wanna get stuff done. -Not to join just to turn my nose up at all of the lower AP players in the group.

So, just in case you ever see someone with high AP who stays to help, think of people who might be like me. I'll be there to help out.^^ ☆

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Sempra   
3 hours ago, Dr SoulReaper said:

 You tell us lower geared players to make our own groups... you then proceed to join said groups.. look at our stats and then leave... because we dont meet your standards... 

So wait.. 

 

You be sad that you cant a "high" AP group and make your own, okay BUT why you be sad if " high" AP players dont want to join your group? 

 

If you search for 800+ NS.. And a 800 ap player join and leave thats ok but if a 900+ player do this, its a bad move? 

 

If you search for 800+ NS and my SF with 700AP join, you dont kick him? 

 

If you join a group you dont check their stats, you trust all people around you if they say " 1k AP" that they have it? (yep thats the new shit thats going on at F8) 

 

And dont forget, maybe you join a high Ap group the dps Meter makes you sad.. Like the guy in a other thread here

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So you're getting mad that the higher AP left your group? Are you sure it's your stats that are causing it and not something else.. IE they join but see a higher dungeon they need or want so drop and join it. Is the dungeon being falsely advertised? IE calling for a 900 NS and you're 800, or worse like 6-7 hundred and calling for IF. Are you running NF with no tank? A lot of high ap players will drop if a group is low ap and also missing key classes for that particular dungeon as they can't just whale through. 

 

There can be a dozen reasons a high AP leaves. 

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Grimoir   

What i find funny in this whole thing is that i see people advertise for Soguns Lament: 1000AP+Hm15 yet we did it with 600AP and 6 man when it came out....the logic is striking xD

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newbiez   

well not all high ap players is bad tho...example i saw 1k ap player recruiting deso tomb normal for 700 ap...means that 1k ap player willing to help low ap players to clear the dungeon..as we know for crafting need to clear deso tomb once...so yeah maybe u meet a bad high ap players but clearly not all...

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KzE   
1 hour ago, DirectorTseng said:

So you're getting mad that the higher AP left your group?

Sure he is mad. You recruit 800+, room is full and nobody can join anymore, high APs check all and if there are not enough AP for their taste, they leave. And this is going for 5-10-15 mins and you are still in lobby with no team.

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FoxRel   
1 hour ago, Grimoir said:

What i find funny in this whole thing is that i see people advertise for Soguns Lament: 1000AP+Hm15 yet we did it with 600AP and 6 man when it came out....the logic is striking xD

True, but i think its a different problem, player with high AP want player with high AP to do stuff even if they can just have low AP player that know the mech.

What im trying to say is, players (not only high ap) are asking for more ap than needed in some dungeons and player that dont have the ap to join them are getting mad becouse they need to run those dungeons to get better gear.

 

Just to make an exemple, i have a 762 ap KFM, for me its easier to join a NS with my KFM than with my Gunner (850 ap), i know all the mechs and i know the bosses rotations.

just yesterday i made 8 runs with my kfm, and one of the runs was a 4 man run, with a 850~930 ap party, i was the only "low ap" and we made it with time to spare, so why some players are asking for a 6 man 900,950 + to run the dungeon ?

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Wixa   
10 minutes ago, FoxRel said:

True, but i think its a different problem, player with high AP want player with high AP to do stuff even if they can just have low AP player that know the mech.

What im trying to say is, players (not only high ap) are asking for more ap than needed in some dungeons and player that dont have the ap to join them are getting mad becouse they need to run those dungeons to get better gear.

 

Just to make an exemple, i have a 762 ap KFM, for me its easier to join a NS with my KFM than with my Gunner (850 ap), i know all the mechs and i know the bosses rotations.

just yesterday i made 8 runs with my kfm, and one of the runs was a 4 man run, with a 850~930 ap party, i was the only "low ap" and we made it with time to spare, so why some players are asking for a 6 man 900,950 + to run the dungeon ?

Do you think it's wrong to have a fast run? People ask 900+ because they don't want to do any mechanics and need it to be fast. Not that hard to understand.

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It's nothing about fast runs.

As a gunner sitting on 1020 AP now, if I join any party below 900ap I gonna be forced to play a "tanker gunner" because all aggro is coming towards me.

I'd recommend you to do that once, play as a tanker gunner (because party has no damage) and tank last boss of EC, DT, NF, NS etc... go see how fun it is ^^

Edited by Kosako Assano

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caioc2   

Cant say about NF and NS for gunner, but EC and DT are easy for gunner to tank. Just keep the right distance, I would say it is much easier tanking EC with gunner than BM atleast for my 300 ms ping.

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1 hour ago, KzE said:

Sure he is mad. You recruit 800+, room is full and nobody can join anymore, high APs check all and if there are not enough AP for their taste, they leave. And this is going for 5-10-15 mins and you are still in lobby with no team.

That is where you go find another dungeon to do for a half hour or so and come back. I've had PT's like that some days are just worse then others and i'm normally one of the high AP's advertising and I will have even low AP players drop.

 

1 hour ago, Wixa said:

Do you think it's wrong to have a fast run? People ask 900+ because they don't want to do any mechanics and need it to be fast. Not that hard to understand.

^ this

As the dungeons get longer those that only have a short few hours to play are finding it harder and harder to get all the big purples done. I've done that going into EC or DT called for 950+ normal because I just got done with BT and I got like an hour to get all dailies done. I want in and out as fast as I can. And as people level up alts it gets to be long and tedious running all the dailies over and over again. 

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FoxRel   
1 hour ago, Wixa said:

Do you think it's wrong to have a fast run? People ask 900+ because they don't want to do any mechanics and need it to be fast. Not that hard to understand.

i dont think its wrong to have a faster run, but even if u are in a 900+ party and someone **** up the mech the others party members usually leave the party, and there are a lot of 900+ that dont know what they are doing.

 

Again, i have nothing against faster runs or to make sure that the player who join your party has some brain to run the dungeon and i know that the majority of the low ap (800-) just want to watch and be carried, but there are some that know the mech and can help with buffs (bb/sb/reset) that can more helpful than some guy with 900+ ap that dont know what **** he is doing.

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Malign   
1 hour ago, Kosako Assano said:

It's nothing about fast runs.

As a gunner sitting on 1020 AP now, if I join any party below 900ap I gonna be forced to play a "tanker gunner" because all aggro is coming towards me.

I'd recommend you to do that once, play as a tanker gunner (because party has no damage) and tank last boss of EC, DT, NF, NS etc... go see how fun it is ^^

I've been tanking things on my FM just fine since beta and even in a 1k party I normally end up tanking if there isn't a legit tank. I have a gunner friend who is normally the tank for all the dgs he runs NS included and he does just fine. Just requires some more effort.

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Iholly   
1 hour ago, Kosako Assano said:

It's nothing about fast runs.

As a gunner sitting on 1020 AP now, if I join any party below 900ap I gonna be forced to play a "tanker gunner" because all aggro is coming towards me.

I'd recommend you to do that once, play as a tanker gunner (because party has no damage) and tank last boss of EC, DT, NF, NS etc... go see how fun it is ^^

Lol... Yeah, you go try tanking as a wl or as a FM in EC, DT,NF etc & see how much fun that will be.  I have a much easier time tanking on my gunner when it comes to those dungeons than compared to my WL/FM. :P

Edited by Iholly

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Zuzu   

Ah, the age old argument and lumping together of all "high AP" players. Attempting to make all high AP players look like douches and non-caring to anyone lower AP than us.

Well as someone mentioned before, there's multiple things that can go along with this but I'll go off of a few personal experiences I've had(at low and high AP, mind you).

 

Feels like low AP players correlates to potato computers/extremely slow loading usually.

 - Now I know this isn't the case for everyone and I don't mind if someone takes an extra 30 seconds to load but it feels like whenever someone has fresh level 50 gear or Stage 1~3 weapons then their loading takes a good 2+ minutes and halts any progress in a dungeon because I typically want to be nice and have them get credit but I become increasingly impatient.

 

Low AP players can't hold consistent DPS to save their life.

 - I've seen this way too often whether it's on my main character or alts; majority of low AP players aren't dealing any consistent DPS whatsoever so it makes the boss fights a lot longer than they're suppose to be and I end up tanking on literally any character I play, whether they're geared or not, because the whole party who's around Stage 5~6 weapon can't hold consistent DPS to my Stage 3 weapon Gunner so I end up stealing aggro. It becomes frustrating.

 

Last one but, it feels like low AP players want to just get carried when it comes to Asura or higher dungeons.

 - Correlates to the above comment. Doesn't seem like they even try to do anything whenever they see someone with Stage 12 or higher weapons.

 

Just my personal experience with low AP players in F8 majority of the time.

And before any of you say, "Well then you should just do everything yourself", I do actually. I either solo every dungeon up to Asura or I duo every dungeon with a friend up to Sanctum.

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FrozenB   

High AP players want to play or join a group with relative high AP because they can run through the dungeons ASAP. People have limited time to play each day (they have life outside of this game). Also, for majority of high AP players, they have run through the dungeons many times already (at least 200+ times for each dungeon). So, why would they still want to be stuck in the dungeon longer. Also, high AP group can afford 1 or 2 people disconnect or rage quit the game during the run (can still finish the run without problem). However, with lower AP group, it will takes ages as the high AP player will need to do all the damage. 

 

Personally, I have been with low AP group few times. In the most current NS normal mode, my weapon just lost 65 durability in a single run because the run took extremely long due to overall low DPS.

 

In fact, I found that majority of lower AP group have loading issues. They took extremely long loading whenever they go through any portals. (I am talking about 3-4 minutes per portal)

Now the people who are in the lower AP group are complaining about no helping from high AP group, but once you get to high AP group with few hundreds run of the same dungeons, you will become 1 of us to.

 

If you have 850 AP, do you want to join a group of 700+ DT NM dungeon or do you want to join a group of 850+ DT NM dungeon?

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Wataru   

I don't make my own groups as much as I like, but I always give the reasonable minimum for the dungeon and mode. More often than not I find people don't know dungeon mech at much lower gear even if it's their alt. How that is I don't know.

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Athena84   

This is going to continually to be a problem as this is just a case of the big fish vs the little fish.  Part of this problem is people are still trying to justify AP = player's skill and dps and in all reality it doesn't.  DPS is influenced by crit chance, crit dmg, and elemental dmg AP believe it or not once over 900 just doesn't yield as much ie diminishing returns at least from my experience.  With that being said some of you lower AP players do have to understand that some dungeons do require at least a certain level AP of the entire group to clear.  I was on my alt yesterday she's a gunner at 900ap with some elemental fire gear.  I asked for 800ap in an EC run got a few players around 850 and two at about 750-775 I figured sure why not I do about 40k dps sustained and with high burst dmg when I blow my tab.  Needless to say we completed it however Zakhan showed -2 sec which means our dps was subpar.  We may have completed it but a gunner just does not tank even though I had to the entire fight :( .  

 

With all that being said if I'm on my main warlock I'll take just about anyone because I know I can recover the group if we mess up mechanics or something.  The main reason why people ask for high AP is because with higher AP there is more chance to recover the fight if mechanics are messed up think of it like a buffer or they just want to get the dungeon done quickly.  So for all the lower AP players out there don't get discouraged and don't think that all high AP players are snobs most of us aren't snobs and some of us are willing to help lower players just because we've all been there before.  I usually create parties with what I think reasonable is AP DT 800ap (probably bringing this down to 750 since there are no mech), EC 800ap, NF 850ap, NS 900ap, ITF and EL 950-1k (until I feel the community has the mechanics down).  What all this means is a good party leader knows their group composition and most of the time should be able to take one or sometimes two lower AP players and still clear and with the extra confidence bonus in the big 4 dungeons AP I don't care too much about atm.

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FrozenB   
6 hours ago, Athena84 said:

This is going to continually to be a problem as this is just a case of the big fish vs the little fish.  Part of this problem is people are still trying to justify AP = player's skill and dps and in all reality it doesn't.  DPS is influenced by crit chance, crit dmg, and elemental dmg AP believe it or not once over 900 just doesn't yield as much ie diminishing returns at least from my experience.  With that being said some of you lower AP players do have to understand that some dungeons do require at least a certain level AP of the entire group to clear.  I was on my alt yesterday she's a gunner at 900ap with some elemental fire gear.  I asked for 800ap in an EC run got a few players around 850 and two at about 750-775 I figured sure why not I do about 40k dps sustained and with high burst dmg when I blow my tab.  Needless to say we completed it however Zakhan showed -2 sec which means our dps was subpar.  We may have completed it but a gunner just does not tank even though I had to the entire fight :( .  

 

With all that being said if I'm on my main warlock I'll take just about anyone because I know I can recover the group if we mess up mechanics or something.  The main reason why people ask for high AP is because with higher AP there is more chance to recover the fight if mechanics are messed up think of it like a buffer or they just want to get the dungeon done quickly.  So for all the lower AP players out there don't get discouraged and don't think that all high AP players are snobs most of us aren't snobs and some of us are willing to help lower players just because we've all been there before.  I usually create parties with what I think reasonable is AP DT 800ap (probably bringing this down to 750 since there are no mech), EC 800ap, NF 850ap, NS 900ap, ITF and EL 950-1k (until I feel the community has the mechanics down).  What all this means is a good party leader knows their group composition and most of the time should be able to take one or sometimes two lower AP players and still clear and with the extra confidence bonus in the big 4 dungeons AP I don't care too much about atm.

Yes, I agree that AP is not everything in dealing decent DPS. That's why I often check the players' gears in F2 just to make sure that they don't have fake 950+ or 1k+ AP, Nowadays, there are so many fake high AP players with only less than 2k critical damage in their F2. Also, I have seen some people wearing just pinnacle or basic HM accessories, but having 950+ AP due to their gems and HM points. If it is just normal mode, they are fine. However, in hard mode, I don't think they survive long, especially nowadays when people skip the most of the mechanics with high AP group, they often forget what to do when it gets to mechanic phases.

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2 hours ago, FrozenB said:

Yes, I agree that AP is not everything in dealing decent DPS. That's why I often check the players' gears in F2 just to make sure that they don't have fake 950+ or 1k+ AP, Nowadays, there are so many fake high AP players with only less than 2k critical damage in their F2. Also, I have seen some people wearing just pinnacle or basic HM accessories, but having 950+ AP due to their gems and HM points. If it is just normal mode, they are fine. However, in hard mode, I don't think they survive long, especially nowadays when people skip the most of the mechanics with high AP group, they often forget what to do when it gets to mechanic phases.

Exactly, my WL is only in blade 5 but I can out DPS most up to bale 11. All because I run shadow build with a BT shadow earring.. that ring shot my DPS up through the roof.. during BB and SB I reach the same damage my hm 12 summoner did during the same thing when they were low 900 ap. The DT i ran yesterday with her I was out dpsing everyone but a hm 11 WL with better gear. 

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On 10/2/2017 at 2:47 PM, Zuzu said:

Ah, the age old argument and lumping together of all "high AP" players. Attempting to make all high AP players look like douches and non-caring to anyone lower AP than us.

Well as someone mentioned before, there's multiple things that can go along with this but I'll go off of a few personal experiences I've had(at low and high AP, mind you).

 

Feels like low AP players correlates to potato computers/extremely slow loading usually.

 - Now I know this isn't the case for everyone and I don't mind if someone takes an extra 30 seconds to load but it feels like whenever someone has fresh level 50 gear or Stage 1~3 weapons then their loading takes a good 2+ minutes and halts any progress in a dungeon because I typically want to be nice and have them get credit but I become increasingly impatient.

 

Low AP players can't hold consistent DPS to save their life.

 - I've seen this way too often whether it's on my main character or alts; majority of low AP players aren't dealing any consistent DPS whatsoever so it makes the boss fights a lot longer than they're suppose to be and I end up tanking on literally any character I play, whether they're geared or not, because the whole party who's around Stage 5~6 weapon can't hold consistent DPS to my Stage 3 weapon Gunner so I end up stealing aggro. It becomes frustrating.

 

Last one but, it feels like low AP players want to just get carried when it comes to Asura or higher dungeons.

 - Correlates to the above comment. Doesn't seem like they even try to do anything whenever they see someone with Stage 12 or higher weapons.

 

Just my personal experience with low AP players in F8 majority of the time.

And before any of you say, "Well then you should just do everything yourself", I do actually. I either solo every dungeon up to Asura or I duo every dungeon with a friend up to Sanctum.

These are most likely gold farmers dude. Most of them are from third world countries and they are paid by gold sellers to farm gold for the gold sellers. They can't afford their own computer, so it's very likely they are using computers from a small computer lab set up by the gold seller.

 

They also run macros with a monotonous key sequence and that may explain why their DPS is shit relative to their gear. These gold farmers are just that lazy.

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