Lime

Please Nerf Blade Dancers in Arena

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Lime   

I don't understand what mods are thinking, The entire game population that aren't blade dancers are complaining of the fact that they are way too unbalanced.

 

It's not even about losing too often to them(while that's the case) , Kfms or sins that know how to play their class are much more stronger than bds, but they need to know how to play their classes, with blade dancers everyone that plays it will be strong

 

Infinite spin w/ deflect

Heal

Resist 6 seconds short cd

grab from a far distance

Insane burst

more stuns and knockups then any other class.

 

Please nerf them already....... This game is too old to have unbalanced classes.

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FrozenB   
51 minutes ago, Lime said:

I don't understand what mods are thinking, The entire game population that aren't blade dancers are complaining of the fact that they are way too unbalanced.

 

It's not even about losing too often to them(while that's the case) , Kfms or sins that know how to play their class are much more stronger than bds, but they need to know how to play their classes, with blade dancers everyone that plays it will be strong

 

Infinite spin w/ deflect

Heal

Resist 6 seconds short cd

grab from a far distance

Insane burst

more stuns and knockups then any other class.

 

Please nerf them already....... This game is too old to have unbalanced classes.

infinite spin with deflect? -each spin costs 20% chi. if you keep on hitting them while they spin = give them free chi. The spin is just the same as destroyer, but shorter spin. The only infinite skill in this game is block (from kfm, bm, wl) that has no CD and no chi consumption.

 

Heal? -10% or 15% with HM Z skill. It is every 30-35 seconds and is solid heal, which mean they don't get additional heals even if you keep hitting them. If you talk about heals, think about summoners insane heal. If you talk about healing power, BD is at the bottom of the list.

 

Resists 6 seconds short cd? -which skills are you talking about? malestorm is only either 2seconds or 3 seconds. V is 5 resists. Z is 5 resists. Where does that 6 seconds short cd skill come from?

 

grab from a far distance? -grab is useless if you know how to counter it. In fact, most high gold rank players know how to counter grab. If you don't, then you should be in silver rank.

 

Insane burst? -which class doesn't have insane burst? If you burn your tab escape randomly or accidentally, any class can combo you to death. In fact, same as other class, BD needs low ping to do the combo correctly because it requires chain of CCs before they can kill anyone.

 

More stuns and knockups? There are only 2 stuns from BD, raid (2) or RMB in lighting draw stance. If you want to talk about stuns, go play BMs and sins. Knockups are the same for any other classes. It is your own fault to get CCs and knockups. Talk about knockups, BD doesn't have 100-0 aerial combo. Go play WL and feel the 100-0 aerial combos.

 

Know your class and practice more. Fighting BD is a mind game. You have to guess what they are going to do in the next second. It is the same for any other classes.

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Agree, you don't really need a skill to reach gold as BD, and they are in almost every team on tournaments for some reason. They was op even before skill revamp, and then they've got defence/deflect penetration soaring falcon with full focus regen and KD in one skill (18s cd) plus ability to use Maelstorm with deflect spin. 

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2 hours ago, FrozenB said:

infinite spin with deflect? -each spin costs 20% chi. if you keep on hitting them while they spin = give them free chi. The spin is just the same as destroyer, but shorter spin. The only infinite skill in this game is block (from kfm, bm, wl) that has no CD and no chi consumption.

 

Heal? -10% or 15% with HM Z skill. It is every 30-35 seconds and is solid heal, which mean they don't get additional heals even if you keep hitting them. If you talk about heals, think about summoners insane heal. If you talk about healing power, BD is at the bottom of the list.

 

Resists 6 seconds short cd? -which skills are you talking about? malestorm is only either 2seconds or 3 seconds. V is 5 resists. Z is 5 resists. Where does that 6 seconds short cd skill come from?

 

grab from a far distance? -grab is useless if you know how to counter it. In fact, most high gold rank players know how to counter grab. If you don't, then you should be in silver rank.

 

Insane burst? -which class doesn't have insane burst? If you burn your tab escape randomly or accidentally, any class can combo you to death. In fact, same as other class, BD needs low ping to do the combo correctly because it requires chain of CCs before they can kill anyone.

 

More stuns and knockups? There are only 2 stuns from BD, raid (2) or RMB in lighting draw stance. If you want to talk about stuns, go play BMs and sins. Knockups are the same for any other classes. It is your own fault to get CCs and knockups. Talk about knockups, BD doesn't have 100-0 aerial combo. Go play WL and feel the 100-0 aerial combos.

 

Know your class and practice more. Fighting BD is a mind game. You have to guess what they are going to do in the next second. It is the same for any other classes.

1. Phantom Grip-there isnt actually a "counter" to phanttom grip..the animation is so quick that u HAVE to predict it and use an iframe...how on earth is that a counter to it?

2. Being able to burst 80% of someone's hp with 2 stuns is ridiculous. 

3. Hitting a BD does NOT give them chi, only destroyers get chi upon being hit, BD gets chi by their z(6 chi), 1(100% chi), their q/e and ss

What  i find BS is how classes with q/e can just l ook at u and spam q/e, and that makes all m y openers except z completly worthless 

Edit: I main destroyer btw

 

Edited by Phytolacca

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Beleth   

"I can't play smart against this class, pls nerf!" How all these gold players and above reach their ranks? They never go against BD? 

 

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waspak   

Me  vs  Assasin   and loose =  pls nerfed assasin

Me  vs Destroyer and loose =  pls nerfed Destroyer

Me  vs ForceMaster and loose =  pls nerfed ForceMaster

Me vs BladeMaster and loose = pls nerfed BladeMaster

Me vs BladeDancer and loose = pls nerfed BladeDancer

Me vs Summoner and loose = pls nerfed Summoner

Me vs Warlock and loose = pls nerfed Warlock

Me vs KungfuMaster and loose = pls nerfed KungfuMaster

Me vs SoulFighter and loose = pls nerfed Soulfighter

Me vs ... wait ... hmm  what character did i played?  doesnt matter pls nerfed = (  ? )

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Lime   

Guys seriously, if you're blade dancers, just don't post here, it's not fair, this event, every blade dancer, hm 0, magically " plays well " ?

 

Every class has some thing op... but blade dancers are on a whole new level, this class needs to be nerfed.

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Asuramon   

So blade dancers aren't allowed to post in here in order to be overwhelming disadvantage in feedback against them?

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The real issue is they have free spammable air launchs and free ways to initiate one. Even if you stick a coin to your '' F '' or even '' Tab '', air launch and combos are instant. Now such free skills should be meant to stall time, but they are doing crazy amount of damage compared to their availability and effort required.

 

@FrozenB

Their initiators are instant, so being able to counter or evade one is only the blade dancer's fault, not your lucky guessing. If you deflect/counter an instant skill, even in tournaments it's not your name that is referred, it's considered as mistake of the one got deflected/countered.

On the other hand, you can see every initiation of a destroyer coming and actually counter/evade them with reaction.

 

The only thing i do, when i'm up against bd is spin right after the 1 sec the match started. Noob ones always start like this, knowing that their initiator is instant and also will override any of mines, they fall for it and get deflected. Now, this is not my guessing skills '' lol ? '' this is the bd's fault. If you expect to win via lucky guesses, you should stay at silver. Luck is replaced by reaction right after high-silver.

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Lime   
1 minute ago, Asuramon said:

So blade dancers aren't allowed to post in here in order to be overwhelming disadvantage in feedback against them?

Eh no, but if this was a thread about forcemasters, i would post saying they dont need to be nerfed, even tho im not a fm

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Is really EASY to get to Gold league on my BD.

As I tell my friends, if you want to prove me you are really GOOD at pvp, get to Gold as a Blademaster then you show me you are truly good pvper in this game. None of them ever did so far.

Edited by Kosako Assano

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iokunn   
6 hours ago, FrozenB said:

Insane burst? -which class doesn't have insane burst? If

FM doesn't have burst at all or at least i'm trying to figure it out but i cannot find the burst... Could you enlighten me please?

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No I agree fully, BD's in the arena are pure cancer even more so then summoners and this coming from a summoner main. They are a class that takes little to no skill to play as all they do is spin to win..  and that damn spin deflects everything. If they aren't spinning they have guardian tempest up or malestorm and back to spinning. If they aren't resisting every friken hit they have back to back aerial combo's that trigger for most classes only their tab escape which has a super long cool down in arena. 

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FrozenB   
3 hours ago, Kosako Assano said:

Is really EASY to get to Gold league on my BD.

As I tell my friends, if you want to prove me you are really GOOD at pvp, get to Gold as a Blademaster then you show me you are truly good pvper in this game. None of them ever did so far.

 

3 hours ago, iokunn said:

FM doesn't have burst at all or at least i'm trying to figure it out but i cannot find the burst... Could you enlighten me please?

 

2 hours ago, DirectorTseng said:

No I agree fully, BD's in the arena are pure cancer even more so then summoners and this coming from a summoner main. They are a class that takes little to no skill to play as all they do is spin to win..  and that damn spin deflects everything. If they aren't spinning they have guardian tempest up or malestorm and back to spinning. If they aren't resisting every friken hit they have back to back aerial combo's that trigger for most classes only their tab escape which has a super long cool down in arena. 

haha...I bet all these players are playing in silver rank. 

 

BM sucks? Obviously you don't know how to tech chase. Either tech chase or hm Z can force people to use their tab escape. Then, use the other one to put enemy into chain CCs to finish them off.

 

FM no burst? You can have continuous block just like bm, kfm, wl. The differences between good and bad FMs are the frequency and timing on using their blocks. Bad FMs just spam LMB and RMB continuous. Good FMs can use their blocks to counter all the enemies' approaching skills and wait for the opportunities to attack.

 

Summoners weak? Obviously you don't know how to play against BD. Plus, summoners have parry penetration skills like WL does. Also, summoner can counter any aerial combos with their cats (yes, the only class in the game who can counter while you are in the air by yourself). Which aerial combo gives more damage? Obvious summoners can do more damage than BD while the enemies are in the air. Summoner is the combination of all classes. They have counter stealth, all CCs, roots, aerial combo, counter aerial, projectile protection, massive continuous healing with short CD, grab (pinning with cats). Yet, you say summoner is weak?

Edited by FrozenB

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39 minutes ago, FrozenB said:

 

 

Summoners weak? Obviously you don't know how to play against BD. Plus, summoners have parry penetration skills like WL does. Also, summoner can counter any aerial combos with their cats (yes, the only class in the game who can counter while you are in the air by yourself). Which aerial combo gives more damage? Obvious summoners can do more damage than BD while the enemies are in the air. Summoner is the combination of all classes. They have counter stealth, all CCs, roots, aerial combo, counter aerial, projectile protection, massive continuous healing with short CD, grab (pinning with cats). Yet, you say summoner is weak?

Please point out to me in my original post exactly where I stated specifically that a summoner was weak. 

 

Let us recap, I simply stated that BD's were cancer more so then summoners (which many people call summoners due to as you pointed out all their skills). They are simply annoying on my summoner.. my sin they are hell on earth as i play a stealth sin. 

 

So do you actually read these posts or read a few words and get up in your own little rage storm? 

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FrozenB   
8 hours ago, Phytolacca said:

1. Phantom Grip-there isnt actually a "counter" to phanttom grip..the animation is so quick that u HAVE to predict it and use an iframe...how on earth is that a counter to it?

2. Being able to burst 80% of someone's hp with 2 stuns is ridiculous. 

3. Hitting a BD does NOT give them chi, only destroyers get chi upon being hit, BD gets chi by their z(6 chi), 1(100% chi), their q/e and ss

What  i find BS is how classes with q/e can just l ook at u and spam q/e, and that makes all m y openers except z completly worthless 

Edit: I main destroyer btw

 

Go play BD, it is the same as destroyer's normal spin where we got chi recovery from being hit. There are numerous way to gain chi back and not only just those skills you mention.

That's why I mention that most high golds rank players know how to counter phantom grip. Obviously, you aren't in that rank yet.

 

You don't have tab escape? To be honest, compare to other classes, it is the easiest to know when to use tab escape when against BD (when they are in drawing stance). If you just burn your tab escape on some stupid CCs, then it is your fault.

 

q/e only has 0.5-1 sec iframe with 1 chi recovery for each and has to be in close combat. If you think q/e is OP, then destroyer red spin is more OP. Nothing can do about it beside waiting destroyers can use up all the chi.

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FrozenB   
7 minutes ago, DirectorTseng said:

Please point out to me in my original post exactly where I stated specifically that a summoner was weak. 

 

Let us recap, I simply stated that BD's were cancer more so then summoners (which many people call summoners due to as you pointed out all their skills). They are simply annoying on my summoner.. my sin they are hell on earth as i play a stealth sin. 

 

So do you actually read these posts or read a few words and get up in your own little rage storm? 

You said BD is more cancer than summoner. It also means that you can't win against BD. If you can win against BD, why would you say BD is cancerous? Annoying = cancerous? What about sin who stealth 24/7? Summoner who counter stealth and root 24/7? FM who ice themselves 24/7? KFM spam q/e to gain infinite iframes? Every class has their annoying skills or I should say all classes are cancerous?

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SalemK   

Post like this are useless because people are always going to defend their class regardless since no one wants their class to be nerfed. Notice how some are saying a good (fill in the blank) will do this and that against a bd but they forgot this can be applied to a good bd and they can also do this and that against whatever class. I just think of it this way, every class can be cancerous but some are just easier to do it with more so than others. You can play well with any class if you're patient and put in the time to reach that skill level.

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iokunn   
11 hours ago, FrozenB said:

Insane burst? -which class doesn't have insane burst?

 

2 hours ago, FrozenB said:

FM no burst? You can have continuous block just like bm, kfm, wl. The differences between good and bad FMs are the frequency and timing on using their blocks. Bad FMs just spam LMB and RMB continuous. Good FMs can use their blocks to counter all the enemies' approaching skills and wait for the opportunities to attack.

I'm sorry man but I cannot see the INSANE BURST with Force Masters in your statement xD Even with my ignorance i know that blocking is not a INSANE BURST xD

 

A force master cant bring you from 100 to 0 in 1 second like the rest of the classes lol that's why this game is not popular in E-Sports 1-2 seconds PvP :V And that's why so many ppl hate doing pvp in this game specially FM's xD no INSANE BURST, almost no cc, highly dependent on ping to swap stances, and try to stuck 3 ices on classes that blocks everything to finally to be able to use one more skill for stunning and even if you stun you still don't have any burst lol

Edited by iokunn

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1 hour ago, FrozenB said:

Go play BD, it is the same as destroyer's normal spin where we got chi recovery from being hit. There are numerous way to gain chi back and not only just those skills you mention.

That's why I mention that most high golds rank players know how to counter phantom grip. Obviously, you aren't in that rank yet.

 

You don't have tab escape? To be honest, compare to other classes, it is the easiest to know when to use tab escape when against BD (when they are in drawing stance). If you just burn your tab escape on some stupid CCs, then it is your fault.

 

q/e only has 0.5-1 sec iframe with 1 chi recovery for each and has to be in close combat. If you think q/e is OP, then destroyer red spin is more OP. Nothing can do about it beside waiting destroyers can use up all the chi.

1. BD gets chi if people hit into the parry spin, getting combo'd doesnt.

2. BD can force a tab escape if they want at any time (they can ani cancel somebody far enough so that tab escape won't daze them)

3. q/e can make MOST openers useless, which doesn't require any skill lets be honest i mean come on "hey im looking at u and mashing q/e as fast and hard as i can! u no longer can jump on me aha!"

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FrozenB   

It is pointless to say anything anymore. World tournaments are coming soon. We will see which classes will be in top 3 places this year and which classes will be nerfed based on the ranking. BD only appeared in top 3 in the first year of world tournament (back in 2014?). Then, it got nerfed down a lot and this class disappeared in the top 3 ranking in 2015 and 2016. 

 

48 minutes ago, iokunn said:

 

I'm sorry man but I cannot see the INSANE BURST with Force Masters in your statement xD Even with my ignorance i know that blocking is not a INSANE BURST xD

 

A force master cant bring you from 100 to 0 in 1 second like the rest of the classes lol that's why this game is not popular in E-Sports 1-2 seconds PvP :V And that's why so many ppl hate doing pvp in this game specially FM's xD no INSANE BURST, almost no cc, highly dependent on ping to swap stances, and try to stuck 3 ices on classes that blocks everything to finally to be able to use one more skill for stunning and even if you stun you still don't have any burst lol

I suggest you go watch FM pvp video in youtube. Then, you will know how they burst out insane damage.

 

8 minutes ago, Phytolacca said:

1. BD gets chi if people hit into the parry spin, getting combo'd doesnt.

2. BD can force a tab escape if they want at any time (they can ani cancel somebody far enough so that tab escape won't daze them)

3. q/e can make MOST openers useless, which doesn't require any skill lets be honest i mean come on "hey im looking at u and mashing q/e as fast and hard as i can! u no longer can jump on me aha!"

Destroyers get chi when standing there without using skills and getting combo'ed?

"3. Hitting a BD does NOT give them chi, only destroyers get chi upon being hit, BD gets chi by their z(6 chi), 1(100% chi), their q/e and ss"

Please explain this? I assume you are talking about parry spin for both BD and destroyers right? If so, they both gain chi when being hit during spin.

 

Force a tab escape any time they want? Obviously, you don't know when BD actually gives real burst.

 

BD can use q/e to avoid any jump attack in the beginning of the match? I am wondering which classes are you talking about? Usually, people just iframe or ss back for the first jump attack. I never see BD use q/e to avoid attacks unless it is destroyer's jump aoe daze/stun, but it can be avoid using other skills anyways. By the way, who will be dump enough to use destroyer's jump in the beginning when the animation is so long that everyone can avoid it? Usually good destroyer uses this during chain CC combo.

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2 hours ago, FrozenB said:

You said BD is more cancer than summoner. It also means that you can't win against BD. If you can win against BD, why would you say BD is cancerous? Annoying = cancerous? What about sin who stealth 24/7? Summoner who counter stealth and root 24/7? FM who ice themselves 24/7? KFM spam q/e to gain infinite iframes? Every class has their annoying skills or I should say all classes are cancerous?

Dude this post triggered a serious nerve didn't it. think you need to go step out side for a bit. You're twisting peoples words and batting off into left field. 

 

 

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N3ro   
13 hours ago, FrozenB said:

grab from a far distance? -grab is useless if you know how to counter it. In fact, most high gold rank players know how to counter grab. If you don't, then you should be in silver rank.

Grab useless cause gold people can counter it?! WHAT?

Sure, i can counter soul blades every time, while half asleep, but daze is BEARLY counterable with the conventional grap counter, you pretty much have to predict it, unless youre a next level god that can counter it every time. F is useful for getting sins out of stealth after they tabbed (by the way you resist sins tab by just spamming tab while you grab us... 100% resist takes 0% skill just spam tab in grab). And even against classes that have actual grab escapes you can ss and use your daze and if they use their flock of blades they are STILL gonna be dazed. And then ofc, there is the all mighty grab tech chase into insta sleep that you cannot counter most of the time even if you expect it and insta counter, so you actually have to tab escape it. Also when someone does not have tab escape you can just wait 6 seconds and kill them with lightning draw... very counterable.

 

Have you ever thought that you just dont know how to use grab? Getting countered every time to the point that you say grab is useless, HIGHLY suggest you have absolutely no idea how to properly use the damn skill.

 

Im not even complaining about bd THAT much. While i do think its basically the worst matchup for sins if you play 100% perfect as a sin (but against other classes its not as bad depending on the class). Its still more frustrating to loose to fms as against those while technically maybe a better matchup, you loose because you did not count your anicancel perfectly EVERY single combo to get frozen at the exact time you need to use your 1 dash to continue your combo. Or even worse you die, because dsync screws you over and you cant even target the fm to begin with. Or you tech chase with shadowslip into 3kd and then they 1 getup, but you cant do anything about it, because frozen and dsynced... then get stunned from 1 getup. At least bds are just immune and i cant touch them to begin with instead of getting spoiled by a theoretically possible kill combo and then get screwed over by dsync and frost orbs.

Edited by N3ro

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totokii   
51 minutes ago, iokunn said:

 

I'm sorry man but I cannot see the INSANE BURST with Force Masters in your statement xD Even with my ignorance i know that blocking is not a INSANE BURST xD

 

A force master cant bring you from 100 to 0 in 1 second like the rest of the classes lol that's why this game is not popular in E-Sports 1-2 seconds PvP :V And that's why so many ppl hate doing pvp in this game specially FM's xD no INSANE BURST, almost no cc, highly dependent on ping to swap stances, and try to stuck 3 ices on classes that blocks everything to finally to be able to use one more skill for stunning and even if you stun you still don't have any burst lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFA5oXatprI

I want you to watch this then tell me that fms don't have insane burst. Took him a little under 20s to dish out an 100-0 combo. Fm is one of the hardest classes to pvp with. Might be why you don't think they can do anything. So yeah, if you don't know what you're doing, then you're not going to do anything. 

But in response to OP's post and this thread in general, idk why people are acting like BDs aren't annoying. Am I saying they need a nerf? No. They're beatable and like everyone has already mentioned, you've just got to know what you're doing and what you can use. But everyone else shoehorning this idea that BD as a class is this puritan class, without any issues what so ever, is also strange. Every class has a gimmick that makes you say "...oh come on" out loud. BD is not exempt what so ever.

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Ginkuro   

Hi everyone! As you can guess I play as main BD, but also I play with 7 other classes on lvl 50+ the only one I don't play is destroyer, as a blade dancer ofc I know all the weaknesses of the BD and there's a lot of them, usually every class has their own weekneses, 1 of them is the long CD of key skills for BD, if you manage to iframe or escape that key skills you'll have a lot of time to play with them and give them a slow death, ofc there are a lot of factors to take into account on pvp and that's on any class, if your ping is bad you'll get beaten by many other players with a decent enough ping to chain their skills properly (I usually avoid pvp when my ping is above 200 ms) in all the classes I've been able to win against BD, with some classes easier than with others, but pvp is not about bursting all your skills and escapes as fast as you can to win the match you need to be patient and read your opponent, also need to try to learn about the other classes before asking for nerf this or the other classes (I have become frustrated with destros a lot and sometimes I wish destros nerfed but it's all about time to Lear to deal with good destros) for FMs I would say learn to pvp on ice build against BD and you'll see the difference and don't spam rmb and lmb or you'll get stunned on the spin, for summ play on earth build and you'll beat any low rank BD, on sins play with you kds and don't rush to them while they are spinning again this is only for low rank BD since in the gold ranks you'll find BD that won't spin all the time but will overwhelm you with fast combos of kds and make you burn your escapes and then burst you to death as any gold ranked player would do.

 

I Hope this is of help for anyone.

Edited by Ginkuro

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