Lime

Please Nerf Blade Dancers in Arena

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iokunn   
1 hour ago, totokii said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFA5oXatprI

I want you to watch this then tell me that fms don't have insane burst. Took him a little under 20s to dish out an 100-0 combo.

lol you are talking about ppl in tournaments dude in tournaments you dont have ping :V without ping everything is possible besides have you noticed that in every tournament there are almost no FM? just look at the NA resent tournament one one FM and he didnt even reach the quarters finals xD, Korea how many main FMs that play in tournaments are? i think 1 or 2, any FM that actually won a cup ? none....

 

So please everyone stop saying the FM is good at pvp because it doesnt, just look at the tournaments and look at the F11

 

They need to revamp FM just like Tera did with its Sorcerer.

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FrozenB   
41 minutes ago, iokunn said:

lol you are talking about ppl in tournaments dude in tournaments you dont have ping :V without ping everything is possible besides have you noticed that in every tournament there are almost no FM? just look at the NA resent tournament one one FM and he didnt even reach the quarters finals xD, Korea how many main FMs that play in tournaments are? i think 1 or 2, any FM that actually won a cup ? none....

 

So please everyone stop saying the FM is good at pvp because it doesnt, just look at the tournaments and look at the F11

 

They need to revamp FM just like Tera did with its Sorcerer.

Well...this game is all about ping. If you say you have a bad ping and want to be good with FM, you better come back to reality and stop dreaming about it. Every tournament doesn't have FM? Last year FM was 3rd place. If you say "only 1 Korean player can play FM doesn't mean everyone can", well...why can he play it so well while you can't? It is not like he has multiple hands or eyes. Ping problem? Use ping killer? Don't want to use them? um...switch to other game? lol...

 

They did skill revamp every now and then in this game. Next skill revamp will probably be after the world tournament. Let's see who will win the cup. Whoever won the cup will be nerfed down to bottom. Just curious why SF hasn't been nerfed yet as SF won the title last year. Ummmmm....

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1 hour ago, FrozenB said:

Well...this game is all about ping. If you say you have a bad ping and want to be good with FM, you better come back to reality and stop dreaming about it. Every tournament doesn't have FM? Last year FM was 3rd place. If you say "only 1 Korean player can play FM doesn't mean everyone can", well...why can he play it so well while you can't? It is not like he has multiple hands or eyes. Ping problem? Use ping killer? Don't want to use them? um...switch to other game? lol...

 

They did skill revamp every now and then in this game. Next skill revamp will probably be after the world tournament. Let's see who will win the cup. Whoever won the cup will be nerfed down to bottom. Just curious why SF hasn't been nerfed yet as SF won the title last year. Ummmmm....

If Sf hasn't been nerfed after winning the title. Then those casters have no idea what they are talking about 1:35:40

 

 

Some sort of nerfs are just to ease the outcries. Do you expect them to nerf warlock or blade dancer to the ground after this ? I don't think so. They will do some stuff for people that play those specific classes to have an argument like '' Hey, we are always getting nerfed and you still cry ''. They need to fully rework those classes if they are planning to maintain balance. Especially, free to initiate aerials should be completely removed or at least require some sort of enemy mistake or well executed strategy.

 

People that main those classes solely for pvp purposes will always defend it. Warlock infestation is a new thing. But, tournaments and arena have always been infested by blade dancers. This is what i would take seriously, instead of try-hard texts someone digging to find a weak spot for his own class from skill descriptions while in practice those having no meaning at all.

 

They are mostly considered as noob-carriers. This is also not totally true. Calling a specific class easier to play is trying to evade the fact that this class is actually stronger. If the only thing was them being easier to play, we wouldn't see them at least in tournaments where learning curve is no longer a subject. Any average pvper can reach his limit with any class and he will still say blade dancer is easier. The thing is, his win-rate is much higher than with other classes. If the guy is no longer a noob and still says bd is easier to play, than it means the class is actually stronger.

Edited by SauronTheGreat

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Inugami   

What they need to do to balance this game is completely separate PVE and PVP skills. The problem is, some of these classes (such as warlock) are powerful for a reason...we already received a nerf, and frankly, I've had enough of the nerfs. Not because I PVP actively (I don't particularly enjoy it) but because people who don't take the time to learn how to counter my class whine, and then I have to deal with the PVP balances in my PVE game. (And PVP spec doesn't make a difference, certain things were better in PVE before those nerfs. I've learned to compensate, I know my class. But it's annoying)

 

SauronTheGreat has it right. I'd also like to add that I don't feel WL is a noob carrier. A bad WL is a bad WL, and no amount of SB or anything else can save them, though it can compensate in certain areas. I've learned that during this event. I was forced to learn more about my class in PVP than I ever wanted to know, and even though I'm better than I was, I'm still an easy kill. (I am, however, fine in PVE XD)

 

That being said, its the same with BD's. I can kill a bad BD. No amount of Spin to Win helps when they don't know how to play.

Edited by Inugami

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FrozenB   
4 hours ago, Inugami said:

What they need to do to balance this game is completely separate PVE and PVP skills. The problem is, some of these classes (such as warlock) are powerful for a reason...we already received a nerf, and frankly, I've had enough of the nerfs. Not because I PVP actively (I don't particularly enjoy it) but because people who don't take the time to learn how to counter my class whine, and then I have to deal with the PVP balances in my PVE game. (And PVP spec doesn't make a difference, certain things were better in PVE before those nerfs. I've learned to compensate, I know my class. But it's annoying)

 

SauronTheGreat has it right. I'd also like to add that I don't feel WL is a noob carrier. A bad WL is a bad WL, and no amount of SB or anything else can save them, though it can compensate in certain areas. I've learned that during this event. I was forced to learn more about my class in PVP than I ever wanted to know, and even though I'm better than I was, I'm still an easy kill. (I am, however, fine in PVE XD)

 

That being said, its the same with BD's. I can kill a bad BD. No amount of Spin to Win helps when they don't know how to play.

Before WL got the SB nerfed/revamped, it was very easy to get to gold rank. I have an alt WL (HM 6) and I could get to low gold rank without any knowledge in pvp (without any HM skills too). Yes, I used dragoncall in pvp (you see how noob I was) and didn't even know how to toss enemies up in the air. In silver rank, all I did was just spam skills, Z, and C up for full defense. Then, use SB (when thall about to die) to reset all my skills to get full defense (Z and C) with damage boost. Most of the time, enemies would be dead by then. If not, I can call thall again in like 5-10 seconds afterward. WL was just too OP. (Too bad, I didn't have a taste of 100-0 aerial combo before they nerfed aerial damage down.)

 

Now after the nerf, WL really needs skill to be good because they can't spam Z and C forever.

 

 

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@FrozenB

FM's are so good, that there was not a single one in EU regional championships, and none of 3 teams with FM from NA regional championship passed through.

 

So maybe 1vs1?, lets look at the current EU ranking and how this most played class perform:

 

351 SUM's in gold or above

337 BD's in gold or above

282 BM's in gold or above

277 KFM's in gold or above

274 SIN's in gold or above

262 WL's in gold or above

238 DES in gold or above

182 FM's in gold or above

152 SF's in gold or above

 

Yep, FM's are so op right now so they are almost outnumbered by least played class in ranking, while being most played class.

 

You can be very good as an FM, like i think 3-4 ppl keeping class ranking top with alts, but it is one of the hardest class to master, on the other hand BD is one of the easiest and most forgiveable one, with ton of defensive skills to cover their mistakes, and easy high damge combos, plenty of CC's and utility.

 

(I've played FM, WL, BD and SUM to your information)

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Therapyx   
2 hours ago, Southwind said:

@FrozenB

FM's are so good, that there was not a single one in EU regional championships, and none of 3 teams with FM from NA regional championship passed through.

 

So maybe 1vs1?, lets look at the current EU ranking and how this most played class perform:

 

351 SUM's in gold or above

337 BD's in gold or above

282 BM's in gold or above

277 KFM's in gold or above

274 SIN's in gold or above

262 WL's in gold or above

238 DES in gold or above

182 FM's in gold or above

152 SF's in gold or above

 

Yep, FM's are so op right now so they are almost outnumbered by least played class in ranking, while being most played class.

 

You can be very good as an FM, like i think 3-4 ppl keeping class ranking top with alts, but it is one of the hardest class to master, on the other hand BD is one of the easiest and most forgiveable one, with ton of defensive skills to cover their mistakes, and easy high damge combos, plenty of CC's and utility.

 

(I've played FM, WL, BD and SUM to your information)

Maybe there are some another reasons? For Example:

- as FM is hard to play in mid rank

- as FM is very hard to play in high rank

- as FM are playing a lot of pve players, who don't like pvp (compared to cat, it doesn't require a brain in low and mid rank)

- most of top tier players are ranking FM's, SIN's and WL's as tier 1 or 2 in class balance, where the KFMs, SFs and cats are mostly in tier 4-5. 

 

BD's atm don't need any changes, people just have to learn how to fight vs them. NCsoft should fix matchups, where you physically don't have any chances to win(without luck and hope). One example is KFM vs WL. KFM can win only if: WL is brainless and use his CC's in Q or E or Ice, WL is brainless overall. Any other scenarios = loose. And i'm sure, such matchups are existing with other classes aswell

Edited by Therapyx

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Yeah, I'm waiting a nerf for BD since the start, but not even in KR is nerfed, this is wrong.

And you're right, if I play an OP class, an OP archetype or an OP play style etc depending of game, if I know it's OP I will defend it because I know is OP and I don't want a nerf.

Edited by UnderJustin

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iokunn   

@FrozenB @totokii

 

Just let me tell you something guys once "FM JH Yoon" quit the game there won't be any FM in tournaments anymore because he is the only FM that actually plays tournaments as FM LOL

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Only thing i would see worth nerfing in arena is BD's bonus attrributes it gets during draw stance, which are 5% more crit chance and 15% more crit damage when in draw stance. That boost kinda gives you the illusion that BD's damage is too op. Everything else is on opponents ability to predict and counter and dont tell me its impossible to counter the spin because its not. Its very easy actually if you know how the spin exactly works. When BD spins he gets 0.5 second long timeframe where it deflects everything, rest of the spin duration has no deflect meaning you can wait that 0.5 seconds if you know BD is going to spin and then use knockdown as they have no protection for that. Simple as that so dont cry its op if you dont even know how to counter it. You just need to learn to predict when BD is going to spin. Thats what pvp is all about. learning to predict what the other class is going to do and then counter that accordingly. You cannot just mindlessly attack all the way through.

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Lime   
6 hours ago, Amarathiel said:

Only thing i would see worth nerfing in arena is BD's bonus attrributes it gets during draw stance, which are 5% more crit chance and 15% more crit damage when in draw stance. That boost kinda gives you the illusion that BD's damage is too op. Everything else is on opponents ability to predict and counter and dont tell me its impossible to counter the spin because its not. Its very easy actually if you know how the spin exactly works. When BD spins he gets 0.5 second long timeframe where it deflects everything, rest of the spin duration has no deflect meaning you can wait that 0.5 seconds if you know BD is going to spin and then use knockdown as they have no protection for that. Simple as that so dont cry its op if you dont even know how to counter it. You just need to learn to predict when BD is going to spin. Thats what pvp is all about. learning to predict what the other class is going to do and then counter that accordingly. You cannot just mindlessly attack all the way through.

 

There's a reason why i lose 100s of points to bds daily, and not others.

It's impossible to counter that "Rush skill" , too quick,  you have to predict, fine, it was designed to target people with iqs of 300

Same goes for grab,

6 second immunity,

infitnite immunity during spin

 

The class is broken, everyone says it, everyone knows it, you want us not to "Cry" then freaking admit that your class is overpowered, and needs nerfing, they're not even top 5 played classes in pve, but somehow have the second spot for most gold?

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Beleth   

I couldn't care less about your PVP and how OP BD's are in PVP or how they might nerf BD's in PVP. I just don't want them to nerf PVE skills because of some whiny kids can't figure out how to play against them. 

Edited by Beleth

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oh man i only see a cry, think problem is just in you, you dont have experience on pvp , you dont like bds and just up 0 , tell what class you play and we see what is your problem, the broken class is wl, sum, and gunner, but not bd in your opinion will be all classes broken only your class not, give us info, with what class you play, because you tell game old but in my opinion you play only 1 month. if need obiective post and suggestion first tell your class

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Lime   
2 minutes ago, Dominator said:

oh man i only see a cry, think problem is just in you, you dont have experience on pvp , you dont like bds and just up 0 , tell what class you play and we see what is your problem, the broken class is wl, sum, and gunner, but not bd in your opinion will be all classes broken only your class not, give us info, with what class you play, because you tell game old but in my opinion you play only 1 month. if need obiective post and suggestion first tell your class

You're a bd, your post is not appreciated, bias, ty.

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proof please, if not reported for abuse and shut up-ing people for suggestion and want to help you, forum is open for all  if you dont like it just go to support and cry there, if not then you will need to read and apreciate all who want to help you

 

p.s. - Lime i read all and understand 1, you ar BD your posts is not appreciated. thx, and dond flood here Lime ok. dont spend people help time on forum

Edited by Dominator

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Well i have no idea where that 6 second immunity comes from. How about finding out what skills BD has. BD does not have such skill, they have 3 second from maelstorm but in pvp they dont use that, they use 2 second maelstorm mostly. on Z skill they can either get resist 1 time or resist 5 times and heal 15% during 5 second timeframe. thats not op, you just hit 5 times and its gone. on X skill you can get daze and lift into air or resist during 5-hitcombo which doesnt last for long. on V skill you can get resist everything during use and even that doesnt last for very long max 3 seconds. and depending on your style half probably dont even use the resist skills on V and X. There is no skill that gives BD a 6 second immunity to everything. as for spin yes it resist stun, daze and knockback during use nothing else and reason you think its infinite is that if you hit into deflect when he is spinning you give him 3 focus making him able to spin again for free. however, the second spin that has no deflect gives BD 1 focus everytime he takes damage during spinning as well as 400% defense boost, this skill version might be bit too op for arena i admit i dont know as i dont pvp much if at all. about grab, when you get grabbed you dont use the counter skill instantly, you use it when bd is using certain skills such as soulstab and most of them are easily countered because they happen slowly enough. last thing to note that all these resist skills and grab, except spin, have very long cooldown,at least 25 second long. on these notes, there is nothing too op with these skills. you just dont know how to counter them effectively with your class.

 

You could say the same about destroyers spin and 24/7 immunity or about assassins 24/7 stuns and stealth but i dont hear anyone complaining about them.

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47 minutes ago, Amarathiel said:

Well i have no idea where that 6 second immunity comes from. How about finding out what skills BD has. BD does not have such skill, they have 3 second from maelstorm but in pvp they dont use that, they use 2 second maelstorm mostly. on Z skill they can either get resist 1 time or resist 5 times and heal 15% during 5 second timeframe. thats not op, you just hit 5 times and its gone. on X skill you can get daze and lift into air or resist during 5-hitcombo which doesnt last for long. on V skill you can get resist everything during use and even that doesnt last for very long max 3 seconds. and depending on your style half probably dont even use the resist skills on V and X. There is no skill that gives BD a 6 second immunity to everything. as for spin yes it resist stun, daze and knockback during use nothing else and reason you think its infinite is that if you hit into deflect when he is spinning you give him 3 focus making him able to spin again for free. however, the second spin that has no deflect gives BD 1 focus everytime he takes damage during spinning as well as 400% defense boost, this skill version might be bit too op for arena i admit i dont know as i dont pvp much if at all. about grab, when you get grabbed you dont use the counter skill instantly, you use it when bd is using certain skills such as soulstab and most of them are easily countered because they happen slowly enough. last thing to note that all these resist skills and grab, except spin, have very long cooldown,at least 25 second long. on these notes, there is nothing too op with these skills. you just dont know how to counter them effectively with your class.

 

You could say the same about destroyers spin and 24/7 immunity or about assassins 24/7 stuns and stealth but i dont hear anyone complaining about them.

Because destroyer's spin is different from bd's in addition to them not having easy focus recovery ways like bds. They can't spin all day and they can't protect themselves like bd's when they are out of focus. Bd spin has very short down-time from deflect and animation is almost chained, you can't even know when the spin started or ended unlike destroyer which has 1.5 sec downtime with an easily readable animation. Bd even has a grab escape, a class that has ranged free grab also has grab escape ... where is the logic ? Bd can even evade most openers just by running around with movement boost from ''ss'. That %60 ms boost for 6 secs is completely unrealistic and works like a 6 sec immunity skill if you know how to use. Even a bd that spams all his skills right away when available doesn't suffer cooldown issue and become a training dummy like a destroyer.

 

We also talk only about defensive skills as if that bd doesn't attack at all. They can go offensive anytime with their instant free charges while also resisting/evading everything here and there. All those defensive skills which provide full-protection, options to stall time maybe even more than an assassin and still they don't sacrifice any offense. Ways to continuously dps with free, safe attacks leaving opponent no choice but using his escapes and a burst higher than many other classes.

 

I don't like wasting time on technical explanations as people will always find a weakness of their class from skill descriptions and yell it out to bring the house down. I again say, arena and tournaments have always been infested by blade dancers. This is the fact. You can watch tournaments in youtube for free, if you still wonder why it has become a common sense that the class is severely pampered.

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Brunark   

I always look at topics and posts like this and always think "lol reactions." I have a fiber optic 100 down/100 up connection from east coast of US, around DC and I still get a 0.5-1 sec input delay in this game. In game delay of usually an average 100-120 ms. I believe servers are somewhere in Texas too? Even before I moved areas, my old fiber connection had the same connection in this game.

 

So much for reacting to things in PVP in general when your block or F escape, or Q/E doesn't even come out as needed half the time when you hit it before you took the hit. I'd like to take PVP in this game seriously, but just can't. This game actually has one of the worst input lag delays of any recent MMOs I've played in the past 4-6 years.

 

Not an MMO, but I can fight friends in Tekken 7 who live in California, connection from west to east coast and whiff punish on reaction better in there than I can trying to react stuff in here. Feel like you pretty much need Korean internet to hope to actually seriously PVP in here. 

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If you want to be good at a game you have to learn how to play against things. You don't go into league of legends and play against a champion like veigar and he needs a nerf because he one shot you or something, in most games everything has it's weaknesses and things to beat. However there are also terrible match ups in most games as well. Personally I believe the Blade Master vs Destroyer match up to be hell. If I make one mistake as a BM I am indefinitely dead.

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gridloki   

sounding a little burt hurt there, instead of asking ncsoft to swing the nerf bat, why not just roll a BD so you can learn to spot its openings and weakness?

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Greetings,

 

We would like to ask you to keep this discussion on track, which means to be open to any feedback from all members of the community, including Blade Dancers. Also, remember our Code of Conduct and refrain from getting personal.

 

Thank you!

 

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Lime   
30 minutes ago, gridloki said:

sounding a little burt hurt there, instead of asking ncsoft to swing the nerf bat, why not just roll a BD so you can learn to spot its openings and weakness?

Are you having trouble understanding that blade dancers are one of the only classes that has skills like grab, and that rush skill with 0 animation? I'm no "Wizard" , i can't correctly use my 30 second cd 1 second active iframe to avoid their animation-less skills.

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Yes i agree that BD has alot of ways to escape and generally be untouchable while be on the offense at the same time.
That doesnt mean BD isnt without weakness and cannot be beaten. BD's worst nightmare is chill or any skill that disables all key approach skills and spin skill BD relies on.
Im pretty sure majority if not all classes have at least 1 approach block skill and defense/attack block skill. If you manage to get those applied, it can screw BD up totally allowing you to easily win.

Edited by Amarathiel

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