Lumiru

Golden Flower - Copied?

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Inugami   
1 minute ago, DarkAngel72 said:

But Companies tend to make their own twist on the outfit, and make it original. Where that artist didn't care about originality and just copy and pasted different parts. There's a Big Difference between the two.

If you actually look at the design, you can see that the artist did put their own twist on several aspects of the outfit that are very different from the design they were inspired by. Those aspects are vastly different.

Why is it okay for a company to put a twist on an old design, but not an independent artist?

 

Hypocrisy much.

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1 minute ago, DarkAngel72 said:

But Companies tend to make their own twist on the outfit, and make it original. Where that artist didn't care about originality and just copy and pasted different parts. There's a Big Difference between the two.

There's not a damned thing in the world the artist could of done that hasn't been done already, and the internet would've found it.

In fact I've already found costumes far too similar to other entries from just a single MMO, including the ever favorite phantom flower.

 

If you try to make anything that already has a trend or fashion, chances are it's been done somewhere, and more often than you think to a scarily similar degree; it's just a matter of searching for it.

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Just now, Karurosuda said:

If you try to make anything that already has a trend or fashion, chances are it's been done somewhere, and more often than you think to a scarily similar degree; it's just a matter of searching for it.

But when more then 90% of it's "inspired" from 1 source there's something wrong

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Khaen   

Some of this community is incredibly fast to condemn and yet others equally fast to disregard ethics for self gain. It's rather disheartening.

 

Please keep in mind that all artists start from somewhere, and that there is a progression during which I'm sure every artist has done some form of plagiarism (intentionally or unintentionally) at some point. The artist has already expressed their regrets as screencaptured and linked by Zuzu. They have obviously realized their mistakes and was courageous enough to come forth to make a statement. This is a huge step, especially taken into consideration that the winner of last year's plagiarism fiasco never made a peep (afaik). Please be kind and considerate.

 

In regards to people criticizing that there has been zero effort put into design; that is some high flying selective ignorance there. Design doesn't necessarily only mean to create something fresh and new from nothing. Assembling and curation is also part of design, and it takes creativity and effort to put together elements from multiple pieces and have it look cohesive. 

 

In my personal opinion, the artist was very much caught up in the flow of compiling a final piece that they lost sight of the details from whence their inspiration came. 

 

I am in no way affiliated with the artist, but wished to leave my perspective as someone working in the art industry. That being said, I'd like to link this satirical video on the very relevant topic of art thievery; perhaps it will be illuminating.

 

 

 

Edited by Khaen
link fix

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Wataru   

I think it was the color choices of the costume and eyes that really did it, but it's still not a copy.

Edited by Wataru

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12 minutes ago, DarkAngel72 said:

But when more then 90% of it's "inspired" from 1 source there's something wrong

In the case of a traditional eastern garb, there's not much more they could have done to make it unique, because this particular fashion has been done to death, in nearly every possible way.

 

Would you feel better if the color scheme was changed? or maybe a different type of tabi and geta? Or maybe a different style of ribbon? Maybe the top would be 1 layer instead of 2? How about a different type of skirt?

No, it's all been done and people would be quick to find things the artist could have lifted it off from; it's a lose lose situation here for the person that others are so quick to castrate for even being remotely similar to an overdone, but enticing design scheme.

This happened last year too with alice, only that was drawn from SEVERAL sources and they were still ousted for copying, albeit they did trace but that was only a small portion of the hate they got.

 

Lose-lose.

 


 

Edited by Karurosuda

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After reading all the debates on the original Reddit thread as well as the ones on this forum post, I just want to weigh in my two cents. Before I start, I want to make a quick disclaimer that I'm in no way bashing the artist (Shirogahara), personally I think her artwork looks great and the technical execution of her submission is amazing. I am just stating the facts as I see them, and why I think this submission is against the terms of the competition and why this is a case of copying/plagiarism. 

 

I am a lecturer in a local Art & Design College, and have been working as a graphic designer for years. Over the years, it has always been an issue where a student fail to distinguish between "referencing" and "copying" from their sources of inspiration.

 

Generally speaking, there's nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from your references. In fact, it is the fastest way for one to learn and improve. However, there are occasions where this is unacceptable, amongst them are: 

1. When the artwork is submitted into a competition
2. When the artist stands to profit from the artwork (financially or not)

 

In this case, Shirogahara's artwork is submitted to a competition where she stands to win prizes of monetary value. As many others have commented and pointed out before me, her artwork closely resemble if not 100% identical to existing artworks of another game (Onmyoji), down to the design style, details and even color combinations. Those of you who said that her artwork isn't copied are clearly not looking at the right places. You can check out the comparison that I made here: (you can click on the image and view the full size to read the comments)

 

bFXxxxA.jpg

 

 

Even though her artwork isn't straight up trace from one single source/image, but almost every element of her design is copied from parts of existing artwork from one single game (Onmyoji). Now, the competition clearly stated that "...it must be your own original work; any designs that violate copyright or someone else’s intellectual property will be disqualified." (Source: http://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/news/costume-design-contest-2017/) and her work is definitely NOT her own original work, as beautiful as it is. 

 

The artist has come forward and admitted that her artwork is indeed heavily influenced by the references. I commend her effort to explain and her attempt to apologize to her fellow competitors. We all make mistakes, but we learn from them to avoid making the same mistake in the future. As a young artist she needs to understand what constitute plagiarism, and what can or cannot be done under certain circumstances. Those of you who are defending the artist and saying that it's no big deal, you are actually not helping her. While your intention might be good, but you are indirectly saying that submitting a plagiarized work to a competition is fine and therefore encouraging copyright infringement. Not to mention that it is unfair to other fellow competitors who actually came up with original ideas.

 

Yes, she is creating something that she wants to see in the game. Heck, her design is something the majority of us want to see in the game judging from the votes she has amassed. But let us not forget that this is a COMPETITION, and like every competition there are rules and regulations. Unfortunately, her artwork violated the rules and if we turn a blind eye on this fact, we are not respecting the competition and also the other fellow competitors who I'm sure also spent considerable amount of time and effort into their respective artworks. 
 

Edited by Raindeavour

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Inugami   
Quote

The artist have come forward and admitted that her artwork is indeed heavily influenced by the references. I commend her effort to explain and her attempt to apologize to her fellow competitors. We all make mistakes, but we learn from them to avoid making the same mistake in the future. As a young artist she needs to understand what constitute plagiarism, and what can or cannot be done under certain circumstances. Those of you who are defending the artist and saying that it's no big deal, you are actually not helping her. While your intention might be good, but you are indirectly saying that submitting a plagiarized work to a competition is fine and therefore encouraging copyright infringement. Not to mention that it is unfair to other fellow competitors who actually came up with original ideas.

While I agree with you to a certain extent, the fact of the matter is, the designs in Onmyoji are also heavily influenced by other sources, and aren't original in and of themselves. People in this thread keep missing the fact that the inspiration source is also drawing from other designs, and that other games have almost the exact same costumes. Onmyoji has grabbed its influences from other places, and frankenstined them together :/

 

I really do encourage people to do some more research because although she is heavily inspired by this particular game, the designs in it are NOT unique to that game.

Edited by Inugami

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33 minutes ago, Inugami said:

While I agree with you to a certain extent, the fact of the matter is, the designs in Onmyoji are also heavily influenced by other sources, and aren't original in and of themselves. People in this thread keep missing the fact that the inspiration source is also drawing from other designs, and that other games have almost the exact same costumes. Onmyoji has grabbed its influences from other places, and frankenstined them together :/

 

I really do encourage people to do some more research because although she is heavily inspired by this particular game, the designs in it are NOT unique to that game.

The designs in Onmyoji might be heavily influenced by other sources, but it's not an easy feat to come up with completely original ideas when you're creating something in the style of a traditional culture. With that being said, it doesn't change the FACT that Shirogahara copied from Onmyoji. It doesn't matter whether the source she copied from is original or not, her action of copying from an existing artwork and trying to pass it on as her own original design constitute plagiarism. (Since the terms and condition of the competition clearly stated the entries must be original design, I assume that's her intention)

 

Quote

pla·gia·rism

ˈplājəˌrizəm/

noun

the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

 

If you look at the comparison image, the majority of her design is directly copied from existing artwork - down to style/color/placement. Also the sources where she copied from are from one single game. If she had research and draw inspiration from a variety of sources (eg, pictures of traditional kimono, artworks from different games/artists etc), it can still be argued that she wasn't copying. As of now, I stand my ground that her entry violates the terms of this particular competition. Copying from a copied artwork doesn't make your artwork original. Two wrongs do not make one right.

Edited by Raindeavour

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Krissy   
9 hours ago, Ocaere said:

even if is inspired on Onmyoji desisgn I find it very pretty...I even vote for it

lol

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Teijin   

makes me wonder who made  this post probly some in fear of that blue and white  flower outfit  was only a few votes down from being thrown into 2nd place fact of the matter is that why isnt no one looking into the other designs to see if they have been "copied" single one of the design is highly unfair weather it is copied or influenced or what ever these kind of posts shouldnt be made unless your going to go after all of the designs not just one because in truth you are seeking to make a design look bad so that some one else can look good which is tilting this contest sadly. 

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Liedral   

Here's my two cents, at this point in time.... what's originality? Everything good has already been created. Anything created now can be theoretically argued or said to be have been inspired or copied of some previous work. One just has to search for it and something will come up.

 

Basically, quit nitpicking on where inspiration comes and how the artist liked that particular part of a design and decided to incorporate it, instead just enjoy the art.

Edited by Liedral

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I see that there are still a lot of people who do not understand the difference between "inspired by" and "copying/plagiarism". Yes, at this point in time, you can hardly find something that is completely original. Almost every design out there is inspired by something. We create designs inspired by nature, by events, by weather, by trends, by personalities etc etc the possibilities are endless. However, when you are straight up copying from an existing ARTWORK down to the style, design, color combination etc - you're stepping into the realm of plagiarism. Here are some key differences between "inspired by" and "plagiarism".

 

YYhOqzg.jpg

If the artist created her design based on existing FASHION ITEMS and CULTURAL DESIGNS, but added her own twist and touch, that's "inspired by". 

 

mizgH1k.jpg

If the artist created her design based on some elements in EXISTING ARTWORKS, but tweaked the design to add in her own design/personalities/flair, then it's "inspired by".

 

4oQEsRp.jpg 

If the artist created her design by copying off EXISTING ARTWORK without changing the color, style, design, then it is "plagiarism".

 

Again, my purpose of writing these is to highlight the issue of "plagiarism". I am not bashing or hating on the artist. As a designer and educator, I think it is very important for up and coming artists or designers to know the difference between "inspired" and "plagiarized", and for the public to not condone the act of plagiarizing. Imagine you are the original artist of these works, and now someone else had copied your design and win awards/competitions, how would you feel? I believe most artists out there agree that it isn't pleasant to have your hard work ripped off.

 

This is a serious issue in the art community and has been for many years. Even this artist herself stated in her deviantart page telling people to NOT COPY her artworks. Therefore, she should've known better to not copy from others, ESPECIALLY for a competition. Many of you here are saying that "don't nitpick, just enjoy", "toxic community", "why hate" - let me reiterate, this isn't a personal attack on the artist. I am just pointing out an issue. If you are not a content creator yourself, you probably find it difficult to understand how it feels to have your work ripped off by other people. Even though this competition is a small one, it isn't something international and the prizes aren't worth millions but it is STILL A COMPETITION. Submitting a plagiarized work to pass off as your own isn't the right thing to do. Please do not disregard this issue or think that it's fine because it doesn't affect you.

 

“The first step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one.”

Edited by Raindeavour

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Wataru   
59 minutes ago, Raindeavour said:

 

4oQEsRp.jpg 

Nothing your arrows points to is original to those images. It's just trolling at this point. You're just hurting the case for people that are saying someone copied.

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1 minute ago, Wataru said:

Nothing your arrows points to is original to those images. It's just trolling at this point. You're just hurting the case for people that are saying someone copied.

It doesn't matter whether the source that she copied from is original or not, that is beside the point. The point here is this artist's work isn't her own. She copied from other artists' works. Copying from an unoriginal artwork doesn't make her artwork "original". As stated in the rules and regulations of the competition, "...it must be your own original work; any designs that violate copyright or someone else’s intellectual property will be disqualified." Her work is CLEARLY not original. 

 

You can argue that the other images are not "original" because there are already existing style out there in the world. But when Shirogahara copy from these artworks to create something for a competition, that is plagiarism. 

 

At this point I am not sure if you are just trolling or you seriously failed to see that 90% of Shiro's submission is copied from the artworks of this game called Onmyoji, and she submitted it as her own even though the rules has stated that all competition entries "must be your own original work". 

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I can't believe people are making such a big fuss over this outfit design. 
 

I have seen outfits in this game that look almost the same as some in Tera. I have seen designs in Revelation that look almost the same as some in B&S.

Not to mention there are designs, such as the Summertime Action Hero, that have been used in numerous games. The Dragonfall costume looks like something heavily influenced by Dragon Ball. The Great General outfit has plenty of details that are also present in the outfit of Lu Bu from Dynasty Warriors etc.


Also the Blackmoon design looks like a slightly altered Maritime Patrol costume (the hat looks almost exactly the same) with a Poharan hairdo for the females. Yet nobody says anything about that.

My point here is - everything is referenced and on many occassions it is simply TAKEN and only slightly altered by big companies. There is no need to get overly aggressive, simply because the artist took inspiration from various sources and combined them into one.

It is not a rip-off, the artist used their own artstyle, their own approach on it. They did not trace over the lines or used another person's drawing. They did a good job, it's a beautiful design and judging by the number of votes on it, I'm not the only one who thinks that.

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1 minute ago, Lunarnyan said:

I can't believe people are making such a big fuss over this outfit design. 
 

I have seen outfits in this game that look almost the same as some in Tera. I have seen designs in Revelation that look almost the same as some in B&S.

Not to mention there are designs, such as the Summertime Action Hero, that have been used in numerous games. The Dragonfall costume looks like something heavily influenced by Dragon Ball. The Great General outfit has plenty of details that are also present in the outfit of Lu Bu from Dynasty Warriors etc.


Also the Blackmoon design looks like a slightly altered Maritime Patrol costume (the hat looks almost exactly the same) with a Poharan hairdo for the females. Yet nobody says anything about that.

My point here is - everything is referenced and on many occassions it is simply TAKEN and only slightly altered by big companies. There is no need to get overly aggressive, simply because the artist took inspiration from various sources and combined them into one.

It is not a rip-off, the artist used their own artstyle, their own approach on it. They did not trace over the lines or used another person's drawing. They did a good job, it's a beautiful design and judging by the number of votes on it, I'm not the only one who thinks that.

You are missing the point. Yes there are plenty of outfits out there that look similar or identical to others. But those outfits were not created for a competition, where the rules stated that the submission must be original ideas. There are other competitors who actually abide by the rules and did not copy from existing artworks. 

 

We all know that the artist did a great job, I did not say otherwise. It is indeed a beautiful design, it looks good, and the majority of us want it to be in game so that we can wear it. However, that doesn't change the fact that the artist submitted a copied artwork for a COMPETITION. While there are some elements of their own style, 90% of the artwork is clearly copied. You are being ignorant if you say that her artwork isn't copied. Look at the identical colors, shapes, placements - referencing doesn't work that way. 

 

Blackmoon might look similar to Maritime, but the keyword is similar. The artist altered elements of the outfit to make it his/her own design. In Golden Flower's case, "similar" doesn't even cut it, 90% of the designs are identical.

 

Again, this isn't a personal attack on the artist. I have mentioned before and will continue to say this: Shirogahara is talented, her artwork is beautiful. However, it doesn't change the fact that her artwork isn't original. With that level of resemblance, plagiarism is the only word I would use to describe her submission. You don't care whether she plagiarized or not, because it doesn't affect you. That doesn't make plagiarism the right thing to do, especially not in a competition where there are other competitors who worked hard to come up with their own designs. To say that it's fine to submit a plagiarized entry to a competition is disrespectful to the competition itself and also the other competitors. 

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Wataru   

So by the images in the above replies... Short skirt inspiration, more traditional themed clothing from another country is copying. Cool. That leaves only room for western themed costumes for contests.

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Liedral   

I remember back in college when we were writing essays, teachers taught us about plagiarism and why not to do it. Anyways...... the basic idea of an essay is take the ideas and information from multiple sources, bring them back, mesh them into one and deliver it in your own words.

That is what I believe this artist has done, I looked at your 'this is copy/plagerism' picture... and I think why are you making such a mountain out of nothing.

 

Oh look at those shoes and socks.... well they exist in real life and are used in multiple media forms. Shoes for the girls.... what new 'original' japanese design is possible that you can't look up on the internet and pull up a few examples and shout out 'plagerism'?

 

That ornament and knotted obi, I"ll give you this, the ornament is pretty similar but it's till not an identical copy, and the knotted obi, it sure isn't tied the same way, color and design has been changed too. Why are you crying plagiarism about that?

 

That back rope knot on her, the arrow points to a completely different knot on that male. The female knot is one I would tie on my shoe, I have no idea what that knot is on the male but it sure isn't the one I'm looking at on the female.

 

Oh and the circle on the tie on the sleeves? They aren't the same thing.

 

Your words were 'If the artist created her design by copying off EXISTING ARTWORK without changing the color, style, design, then it is "plagiarism".'

 

I have to say... she changed the color, she changed the style, she changed the design. She did what I do when writing an essay, I take the information and ideas, bring it all together, and deliver it in my own words. Will the teacher say "you plagiarized you get a zero!" Heck no.

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2 minutes ago, Wataru said:

So by the images in the above replies... Short skirt inspiration, more traditional themed clothing from another country is copying. Cool. That leaves only room for western themed costumes for contests.

If you read my previous post where I pointed out the differences between "inspired by" and "plagiarism", you'd see that there is a difference between using a short skirt as an inspiration and coming up with your own design for the short skirt VS copying another artist's short skirt design 100%. 

 

Clearly, you are being blindly defensive and is choosing to ignore all the evidence where the artist is copying. Good for you, ignorance is a bliss. I'm done trying to reason with you, because you just seem like you're trolling now. I stand my ground and I provide clear, structured explanations and visual comparisons to point out an issue and raise the awareness on plagiarism. I am not biased and saying that another design is better and her design isn't. I am just stating a fact and providing all the receipts for it. Others can read and decide for themselves whether they want to acknowledge this problem or not. 

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19 minutes ago, Liedral said:

I remember back in college when we were writing essays, teachers taught us about plagiarism and why not to do it. Anyways...... the basic idea of an essay is take the ideas and information from multiple sources, bring them back, mesh them into one and deliver it in your own words.

That is what I believe this artist has done, I looked at your 'this is copy/plagerism' picture... and I think why are you making such a mountain out of nothing.

Oh look at those shoes and socks.... well they exist in real life and are used in multiple media forms. Shoes for the girls.... what new 'original' japanese design is possible that you can't look up on the internet and pull up a few examples and shout out 'plagerism'?

That ornament and knotted obi, I"ll give you this, the ornament is pretty similar but it's till not an identical copy, and the knotted obi, it sure isn't tied the same way, color and design has been changed too. Why are you crying plagiarism about that?

That back rope knot on her, the arrow points to a completely different knot on that male. The female knot is one I would tie on my shoe, I have no idea what that knot is on the male but it sure isn't the one I'm looking at on the female.

Oh and the circle on the tie on the sleeves? They aren't the same thing.

Your words were 'If the artist created her design by copying off EXISTING ARTWORK without changing the color, style, design, then it is "plagiarism".'

I have to say... she changed the color, she changed the style, she changed the design. She did what I do when writing an essay, I take the information and ideas, bring it all together, and deliver it in my own words. Will the teacher say "you plagiarized you get a zero!" Heck no.

It is 90%+ identical. Those who really look will see it and those who choose to ignore it will come up with excuses. If you insist that it isn't plagiarism, then fine, you are entitled to your own opinion. I am only stating facts as I see it and providing the evidence for it. Each and everyone here who read the replies and comments can decide for themselves whether this is a case of plagiarism or not. 

 

"She changed the color" - same color socks, shoes, rope knot, even the stripes on the collar are the same colors. 
"She changed the style and design" - Knotted obi ornament is 100% copied, you can go ahead and overlay the two images on top of each other and you will see that they are 99% identical. Socks are the same length with the same blue color top, color combination and the height are the exact same. The shape of the ribbon obi is the exact same with the white colored layer underneath. Teal/gold color combination? Same. The back rope knot has the same element, same thickness, same colors (black and red) just that the top of her rope knot is slightly lower, still I'd say it's 99% identical. 

 

Yes there are some elements in her design aren't copied, but that doesn't take away all these identical elements. You can either see these or ignore them and call them "altered" or "changed", but they are not.

 

I've worked with countless of design students and graded their artworks for years. I know plagiarism when I see one. 

 

Edited by Raindeavour

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Don't know if it's copied or not. But, i can easily tell that, it will be a complete clipping-fest.

I also don't get why that many people are so hostile against women body. Anything that hints a character is a female, is booed off the stage.

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TopKEK   

They chose a single source material for inspiration, that is what led to eventual copying. 

 

Always check for other materials, even if the other materials don't fit your desired theme just to add elements of originality to it by going off your initial theme. 

Better to have a hundred you can combine into one rather than have one that you can't do much with. 

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AmatsuDF   

If the design isn't disqualified and the submitter banned, then we should vote with our wallets instead and not pay for it should it win.

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