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[Update] Raid Sizes in Dark Origins


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Hi,

I'm from a little clan ho need to merge with other to do raid as 24.

We already have managed a raid clan with the 12 man raid, and now you are breaking our work so fast.

Find another guild and merge for raid is an hard work.

Wanna talk about the fact that 12 ppl online togheter ar easier to find than 24 one? Everyone has their duty, so pls, make our life easier and bring the 12 man online!

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This mistake was the last straw. You don't give false information, get everyone hyped/working towards that information and then turn it around when you will indeed give 12 man. There is NO reason to n

This doesnt makes sense at all.. I mean... ARE YOU SERIOUS?! You know how bad "designed" your whole plan is, right?  We already build up a 12-Man Raid-Team, now we have to get 12 More PPL on our t

We want 12 man raids this is better for low fps low ping better game. BNScry

I don't even understand why you decided to announce that the change to 12m was a mistake, what's the problem? everyone wants it, we need to get used to it, especially with the new Raid, learning it in 24, and then changing to 12 in a month or 2, is just nosense...

I'm completely  for the 12 man raid with Dark Origin.

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This is the main issue of it
12 man raid announced - People start making new groups, having big consequences on their current groups -
Info was false, many left raidless and most just left pissed off for messing something like that up -
Goes back to 24 man, but are told we will have 12 man version in roughly a month after release -
So what is the actual point now of keeping it 24 man when you can just keep it 12 man as you said you was going to, and multiple people don't have to be raid-less for the next month.

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Hello, 

all those hard reactions are the reasons why, they don't tell us about their plans... because if something happens to the plan you get posts like this.

 

i'm still not playing until the 12m is released :p

have a nice day

 

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13 hours ago, RaslerII said:

first thing i'd like to point out like many did already is it doesnt make too much sense to release VT as 24 man and swap it to 12 after 3 or 4 weeks. Plus a good majority of people dont have gear to run VT, gear that you get from skybreak spire which now is "hard" to do especially because you have to gather 24 ppl. Faction recruiting doesnt work because people dont want to do it with randoms, so you go to clans, but then clans have a hard time having 24 people online at once ,except big high gear clans that just end up selling runs because they all already have stuff. I'm a clan leader myself and with about 50 members the avarege online number is 14 and even if we try to setup stuff through discord or other means it s hard to set a time for 24 people across europe. So it s hard to get gear that allows you to do content from next patch, even with nerf of bt, cos problem is getting people.

You will be realising an update that 1% of the playerbase will be able to play. Even with it s elite dungeon role i think you would like more people to be able to play VT.

Having 12 man raids will make it much easier to form groups and will let people get gear to play the content you are adding. And also deal with the "we sell runs" problem which in my opinion is a VERY incredibly sad thing to see.

 

+ take a look at the straw poll the other guy did.

^ Right here. I have close to 80 members in my clan, but so far only 10 - 15 comes on. If we're lucky, at night it is usually 20 members online. I have tried to get my clan to go to BT and we are always successful in clearing stage 1 first hand and then cheesing through stage 2. When it comes to corridors and trying to attempt stage 3, that's when majority of the raid falls apart. Outsiders or someone in the clan cries about that they have to go, when we announce for sign ups we get people to sign up, or they haven't seen any posts being listed. Or some kind of excuse is being brought up about why they cannot join, yet they pressure me (and still do... ), to keep doing 24 BT man raid with them. 

As a leader of a clan... BT and now VT 24 man is going to be the downfall of my clan. It is not because the raids are "hard" it is because we have to rely on outside forces due to one side of the clan are casuals. The other side are hardcore/elitists and the elitist/whales have already ran off to do raids with other clans. Not to mention when having a national clan, timezones are a huge issue for us. We have players from AUS, SEA, OCE, PST, CST, EST & many more. Lot of them cannot make it due that sole reason. Do not even get me started on the FPS issue we have in there...

When 12 man was announced it honestly felt like a godsend. Me & my clan was happy about it. We had made rules and priorities for 12 man... Then... Just to get slapped in the face with this update regarding to 12 man. I have been stressing a lot over this game. Being pressured by clanmates that want to do BT but does not show up majority of the time.

I had gotten into an argument with an ex clannie over past month.  Due to him not showing up for our raids, I mean that's honestly O.K. with me if you're not going to lift a finger to help your clan out... But it was the fact that the moment a friend of his offer him to join his BT raid with his clan, they breezed through stages 1 - 4. (Keep in mind this ex clannie was new to the game...). Our clan mate decides to come to our BT run for the FIRST time and after all was said and done, he Insulted me and the clan.

We took too long to start up the raid. When we were gathering only like.... Ten or seven of us actually showed up. Then we had to wait for subs and backups to arrive. Having to constantly replace people with new subs and back ups, due to some of them having to leave during mid fight of stage 2. Now keep in mind (some of the subs were NEW to BT and they did not even say anything until some of the vets got a bit frustrated). I decided to call off the raid after being stuck on stage two for more than five hours  That ex clannie left the clan saying that we are slowing down his progress.  

Players like him are the reason why my clan slacks when it comes to BT.  All thanks to a few clans selling/offering free clan runs to the other clans/certain players. Like I had previously stated, I have nothing against other clans wanting to sell raids or pick off a select few of my members. What urks me is when we have players like him, who gotten that "red carpet" treatment and runs off to get carried by an EXP clan and then turn around and talk crap about the current clan he is in, because they cannot breeze through BT like the other clans did for him.

Me and many others that have small clans should not be having to feel like weights are being stack  upon them NC.  I  know some of these decisions are not always your doing, but if a dev is the actual reason for this update, I hope that you are honestly begging the Devs, on your knees for them to give us 12 man. I do am not really concerned about VT at the moment but it would be nice to at least give us BT to 12 man, I said AT LEAST!   Both would be great.... But clans like (mines) can progress faster with BT 12 man since we do not have to rely on an entirely different group to beat the dungeon.

Luckily, some of my members have backdoor sources and offered the ones who is running around with raven or is close to it to join their raid. This is nice and all but,  I have a few that remains loyal to the clan and refuses to join with another clan unless I am conducting the whole thing. So I am being ripped and torn to shreds. 

Heh, I am always feel like I am pressured to make others happy in my clan and yet I am not happy.

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yeaaah a lot of players were really excited about about 12 man raids people started coordinating class and elements to try and make sure everyone has a chance at getting something they need . Nobody wants to go with randoms so the merge is a wash in that department the only issue which has already been said , is that organizing 24 people's schedule is just too much too many other factors for countries like NA and EU where there are lots of time zone differences and heck some are even in SEA. When it comes to clans and their core members a lot of players just get sat on the back burner. Smaller groups will allow for also better distribution of power players among clans. Hopefully you guys will re-re-consider the choice to not have 12 man raids come with the mid august update cause i personally am tired of not progressing.... been at the same AP since december cause there is nothing further i can do for my gear unless i am able to get to BT gear.

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I think one of the reasons that they decided to roll back to 24 man is because bunch of threads started with people bitching that it's too soon and that it breaks the current rosters. 

 

The second reason, it could be that the amount of work and testing to make it happened to big to get it out in this short time.

 

The third reason, the 2 reasons above.

 

I personally think that 12 man is better, not just for performance reason but it will give reasons for smaller guilds to try the raid.

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I rather have the raids stay 24 man and have the difficulty as it is.
A few weeks ago I wasn't able to join raids due to my gear level, So I worked up to get my gear up to spec and now I am running raids and finishing it in 1 go. 


Most dungeons got so easy in Normal mode it is a laugh.
Hard mode is okay. 

Btw making it 12 man or easier it will just be call out in faction chat to run Raid and you get into a raid that is not how it should work.

Raid = Organization not search and just do it.

Edited by Hirukaru
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1 hour ago, Hirukaru said:

Btw making it 12 man or easier it will just be call out in faction chat to run Raid and you get into a raid that is not how it should work.

Raid = Organization not search and just do it.

Making it 12man opens up more opportunity to people wanting to do a raid, it's not making it easier dungeon wise since the mechanic roles will be even more needed and relies on everyone to do it instead of a select few in a 24man setting.

 

This will open up to the people who aren't able to get into big clans and be apart of a raid AND it can still be easily organized by people if they recruit through Faction chat. It'll just require people to be on Discord(as normal) to listen and understand what to do. You have to remember that not everyone is able to get in clans that do raids even if their gear is high enough or their schedule doesn't fit other clan's raid schedules.

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I don't see what the problem is with the situation that they have here. All the people that are currently running BT 24 man will continue to run 24 man until the new patch. Those people that have created a 12 man roster in anticipation for the new patch, you can continue to use that roster after they update it to 12 man. You guys are making this more complicated than it seems... If you aren't in a BT raid right now chances are you won't be in the near future anyways, so it shouldn't even bother you if you never had one to begin with.

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The Original post was about the "hype killing" made by ncsoft by giving a wrong date for the 24 to 12m raid system changes... and some people made a cry-spot here...

 

 

I don't see the problem here with the new raid system... by this time you should know that ncsoft always nerf dungeons after releasing new content... this is to allow new players or players that are not geared enough to be able to run the old content and get better equipment and have a chanse to get into the new patch content...  

 

You should have in mind that even if they do nerf Bt and make it easier on the 12m mode you will still have a new raid coming up (VT) that wont be nerfed and will be the new standard for the full geared players... new raid = new SS, accesories, weapon...

 

Anyways I don't know why are people that have never done BT complaining in this threat... the same goes for that peope that have run BT all this time long and are also complaining here... or were you thinking that  raven items would last for ever the best?

 

Sorry for my bad English but I had to sat something. e.e

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5 minutes ago, Cappie said:

The Original post was about the "hype killing" made by ncsoft by giving a wrong date for the 24 to 12m raid system changes... and some people made a cry-spot here...

I don't see the problem here with the new raid system... by this time you should know that ncsoft always nerf dungeons after releasing new content... this is to allow new players or players that are not geared enough to be able to run the old content and get better equipment and have a chanse to get into the new patch content...  

You should have in mind that even if they do nerf Bt and make it easier on the 12m mode you will still have a new raid coming up (VT) that wont be nerfed and will be the new standard for the full geared players... new raid = new SS, accesories, weapon...

Anyways I don't know why are people that have never done BT complaining in this threat... the same goes for that peope that have run BT all this time long and are also complaining here... or were you thinking that  raven items would last for ever the best?

Sorry for my bad English but I had to sat something. e.e

I think you're missing the point of the people's complaints in this thread. They want the 12man raids to come sooner, not angry that it is coming.

 

Though I don't condone them making this a big deal with them just having to wait a month extra before it comes but they aren't complaining that it is coming to the game. They're happy that it's coming but just crying that it's not coming sooner than expected.

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It seems like some people don't really get the point

 

Most players don't have a problem on this 24 man thing to beginn with

but as they announced they gonna change it in the end of summer/beginn of fall.

We will only get 4-6 weeks where we have to clear it as 24 man

So players want 12 man from the start

 

So as everyone knows we have BT since 5 months and even now there are ppl that had bad luck and miss something (Fire Earring for example)

So as 12 man comes weeks later these 4-6 weeks are wasting our time,

because overall the loot is doubled if you look at 1 24 man and 2 12 man raids.

Just think :

the lootsystem will just make things worse

- you can talk about it and find a fair way but in the end one of the 12 man groups will say that they got less and the stress beginns

- bid system anyone who bids in the 4 weeks of 24 man will just get milked and with 12 man his gold was just wasted and he will feel even more bad

So as there will be a new system in near future why should you bid on smth that you will get for less money or maybe for free in your 12 man raid.

So they are just creating 4-6 weeks where you cannot really get something from the raid but still want to raid so you get the experience for mechs and stuff.

 

So changing the system after a few weeks where many raids might still miss boss 4 kill for example ist just wasting our time.

 

And Bt will get his nerf 24 man or 12 man so theres no point to talk about nerf stuff.

Vt 24 > 12 man is not nerfed the only reason Kr says it is easier is because now less ppl can fail stuff.

 

This 24 to 12 man thing after 4-6 weeks just makes no sense.

If we would have 24 man vt for 5 months or more yeah that would make sense but not just 1 month thats just wasting the time of most Players.

 

The biggest + 12 man has is the clearly better performance.

 

Please give us 12 man VT from the start.

Edited by Drownd
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As part of the management of a big guild in EU, this revert to 24man is messing a lot with what we had planned after 12man has been announced. This change allowed us to fit almost everyone in raids without having schedule problems and we really had high chance of clearing it with most of them because of the synergy they all had.

Now we're justing mixing everything, and have to rethink about everything, raid rosters, loot distribution that only gonna last for like a few weeks. That last point especially pisses me off as there is NO way to actually balance that as we're only gonna have the format for a short period of time.

I really hope it will be changed back to 12 man or maybe delayed so we'll eventually get 12man on release wouldnt be that bad of a solution.

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Idk srsly seems like whales are whining about 12m raid. It's not like they are going to nerf the new raid.

Pls tell me this a joke they cannot be this s****d.

I notice a pettern:

-ncsoft/west: we gonna change gold fee to mail gems. Plus a new pay wall soul, well, no one said a damn about pets so we dont care.

-players: dont that's stupid just think about it.

-ncsoft/west: ok we wont increase the mail fee.

-players: ohh thx ncsoft/west you are  god among us (they just reverted a retarded decision) but the real problem about evolve stone/oils is still here, but whiteknight are whitekinght.

Now:

-ncsoft/west: now 12m raid, every clan in our game will be allowed to do it.

-ncsoft/west: wait, lets -"whale clans"- all try the new raid on 24m.

-players: pls dont, just release the 12m raid.

-ncsoft/west: ok 12m raid again.

-players: ohhh thx ncsoft/west you god among us. (Pet and soul paywall,  new evolve stone source) no one will give a damn about it again.

Dude srsly  THINK OF AVERAGE PLAYE  HYPE.

t.9xx ap f2p wl with out bt gear

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@Hime, @Liinxy and @Babbletr0n

 

From what I've seen since launch, you seem to take a good majority of the feedback positively and usually implement changes requested by the community relatively quickly. Realistically speaking, what are the chances that you'll take the majority of this feedback, which seems to all be going in the same direction, and implement 12m with the launch of Dark Origins?

 

I'm well aware that this change happened in KR a while back, so I was expecting this change to happen sooner or later. Other regions don't have many of the problems we face in EU or NA, most of all, multiple timezones. You can have clans with plenty of members, and yet they still can't get a raid together, just because somebody works, or gets home a little too late to join. Now while server merges will add more people per server to pick from when recruiting, it doesn't really solve anything on the servers that already have decent populations. Compounding the issue, plenty of people are going on their summer vacation, so suddenly groups that were just about getting 24 people together, are now short of people to raid.

 

I can't speak for the metrics you get back from the game, but I'm going to guess that a small minority of the playerbase have actually completed Skybreak Spire and are fully geared and ready for the new raid. I get that they also need something to do to keep them logging in, so bringing in the new raid makes sense, but running 24m for a few weeks to then suddenly change to 12m makes very little sense.

 

I don't know if you can make the 12m in Dark Origins deadline, and maybe that's why you're postponing 12m, but if you could make 12m for Dark Origins, I have a feeling the majority of smaller clans would be thrilled. If its impossible, its all good and collecting feedback is positive, but I would just postpone the raids then. Learning a new raid with 24 people for a few weeks and then splitting and having to learn new roles because person A, B or C is in the other group that left sounds painful, off-putting and honestly like a waste of a few weeks. Clarification on exactly what you plan to do with this feedback would be great, and the sooner the better.

 

Best Regards,

Old Man Ruthis

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