[Update] Raid Sizes in Dark Origins

[Nyvva]

Can you guys be a little more serious? It is not funny at all to release confusing announcements one after another. 

[Leyren]

1 hour ago, Fieryfly said:

Personally I think all the big raids should stay 24 man.. NC is just screwing themselves again.. I don't see any benefits of making smaller raid parties.. server will be more clogged on raid days with more groups.. lazy developers 12 man raids are easier to create.. those of us who buy into the game.. what exactly are we buying? a watered down version of the 24 man raids. nerfed mechanics.. do you think this will cause people to stay or want to come back..  not likely, its more plausible people will spend less time in game.. will spend less in game.. will eventually leave game for other games.

There are multiple reasons fir this.

First of all, the performance. A lot of players have performance problems (even if they're slightly, it sucks) when having a 24m team doing a boss, including mechanics and effects.

Second, organisation. In the later content, you have multiple raids to run. You don't want to have to gather 24m for each of them. It takes time to get them together, there are often people missing and in case of unexperienced people, they cost even more time during the raid.

For the rest of what you said, remember that we only get the updates from KR. So this hardly has anything to do with holding players. The nerf was done prior to the new raids, since BT loses relevance and people don't want to be stuck for a long time there.

[Gintokibns]

3 hours ago, Lemy said:

I feel like some people just wait for them to mess something up to make a big fuss about it lol I mean I see some people talking about quitting over something so small. I refuse to believe any big clan had all their members online to make arrangements so fast in one day. Even if they were able to there is more than enough time to rearrange the groups until 12 man.

Well lets say ur in a big clan and u expected those changes, made some plans in advance for them, and then when it was announced it was indeed as you have expected and yes, infact we did get ready in 1-2 days cause of already expecting the raids to be 12 man. What isn't logical is them turning back to 24 after announcing 12 and confirming what we thought it will happen, so if you really think a big clan is that poorly organized that its members didn't expect 12man and its impossible to prepare for 12 man which is what they already wanted for so long for better performance ms/fps wise and so on, then i don't know you probably don't know how most clans work and you just randomly speak ur frustration, or perhaps you couldn't find urself a 12 man static/raid yet and have hopes of being picked in a 24 man raid cus hey more people are necessary maybe they pick me too.

[Rynz0r]

8 hours ago, sevXone said:

Good ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing job, this has to be the biggest ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤up in MMO history and I've been playing since Ultima Online. 

You ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing trolled your playerbase, me and my clan personally planned and made adjustments for the upcoming 12man raid size and now you go back on your word. ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ that, you guys can not be trusted at all and no one will ever take your word for anything again. Damn, im so angry right now...

stop whining, make second group for vt.  Merge them then seperate them later again. Or you know, you could wait a few weeks and do it in 12man? Or whining the only thing you can do?

[Dufor]

24man is useless, while most of  ppl already split up for 12 ppl teams. It makes sence since ppl start split depends on their time avalible and gear/skill level. Now we need to build up 24 man VT groups with undergeared members. Just make raid 12ppl teams at start, 3 weeks more then enough.

[Zedonia]

39 minutes ago, Dufor said:

Now we need to build up 24 man VT groups with undergeared members.

So how did you do BT with that undergeared people?

[healiha]

To be honest, I can't see people leaving this game for a few weeks delay on this matter. I mean, even if we are waiting for the 12 man raid system, it's still something that's supposed to come once patch 55 comes out. And let's get real: we're already strugglng with the fps drops and latency issues on 24 man raids, we kind of got used to it and can deal with it for a little while longer, right?

 

Either way, I'm kindda happy after thinking it through. I mean, come one! We'll get to try the hardest raid content that was ever released in this game with the difficulty it was intended to have when it came out. Stop thinking that we should be doing raids as if they were just like any other dungeon. Even with the low perf issue,

They will reduce BT difficulty for the sake of players that still can't clean it, but it's something that never happened in BnS history! I just hope it will only be a mechs nerf and not the HP too or it's gonna be easy as ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤.

 

As for this screw up, I'm astonished by the way it happened. @Youmukon shouldn't even be releasing this kind of information when it's clear that he never had any kind of confirmation coming from the development team. As a developer myself I can't understand how NCsoft managed to ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ this up so bad, but let's say it's only one person that screwd up and sullied a bit more their reputation.

[Drownd]

There is no point to delay 12 man raid anymore.

If you give us 24 man and later 12 man is just a farse, me as example.

If you got a good 12 man raid and in order to do 24 man you will have to fuse with another 12 man group that means you will have to change our loot system and plan stuff different just because u want to delay it for 1-2 months. As you plan to do this we can only choose a bid system but as i know that i will get my items without extrem high bids there is no point for me to even play 24 man raid.
And more ppl will see it this way.
I beg you to change ur mind a lot of endgame geared Players already choosed to quit the game and now you do this to us you might know that even more players will quit the game because of your decisions.

24 man only has a reason when we would have it atleast 4-5 month but for a month ? thats just a farce.

Pleas rethink it and even if you had to delay the patch for some time give us 12 man instead of 24 man.

 

kind regards

[Zedonia]

I also cant really understand why we will have 24m for some weeks. If you know that we will get 12m very soon why not on release? Maybe the patch for us is not ready? I doubt it tbh. And if that is true why are you not releasing it later? Delaying the whole content now would be even worse so that's not possible but come on, you cant tell me that you dont know when you will have which patch for us.

 

Anyway, I dont get why people are so upset about it. You all did BT (the ones who never cleared BT dont belong to VT anyway) with 24m. And now you magically dont have 24m to do VT? What? It is because of specific classes? All you need is a tank and a SF, the rest doesnt matter too much. You need some group iframes but many classes provide them. I highly doubt every raid was running BT without at least 4 classes who provide such iframes. Please people, dont act like it's the end of the world.

[Hioot]

http://www.strawpoll.me/13562924/r 

[YuriKat]

So this is what was happening just a few days ago:

And now is just the opposite.

 

Even though the change is not affecting me, I think it's not the best decision to postpone it.

A group of 12 is easier to manage and coordinate than one of 24 and the performance of every individual will be better 'cause of two reasons mainly.

One being the people putting more effort into it 'cause in a group of 12 is easier to spot who is the dead weight and since it requires less people, it is also easier to find a replacement.

And the second being the improvement in FPS due to there being less people, less effects and stuff.

 

IMO it's a needed change thats needs to happen ASAP.

[Mordlif]

I am glad for this, all can now know how RL in each raid want to make next raid grup. So only whale will need find another players but they will be already know, they will be kicked in next patch so they will be prepare for it.

[Leyren]

To be fair, of course it is bad to not stick to your word when making announcements, but shit happens. Sometimes more often, sometimes less. It's not like this is some sort of desaster. Perhaps some clans already mentally prepared or organised groups for the 12m content, but it's not like they already kicked half of their members. The 12m raids are already coming pretty fast to us, since alot of people wanted it.. we won't die from a few weeks more.

[Naisui]

Omg stop crying already. They did nothing wrong, since patches rely on Koreans decission.
Hating someone because they misunderstand something - which could happen to everyone, gg!

 

I'm glad I have at least a CHANCE to try out not-nerfed version of new raid, because I'm already sick of seeing my time spend on upgrading character was not really necessary, because content is nerfed all the time , while players are boosted...
Casual game without many challenges is boring.

[xBunnie]

Honestly, I think that your priorities are getting mixed up.

When I worked for a gameserver, we (the development team) prioritized bugfixes on previously implemented content, over implementing new content. Though this did obviously slow content updates, we were able to ensure the code stayed quite clean. As the amount of code increases, it becomes more difficult to fix bugs, because new code may depend on old, buggy code. In an essence, we prevented issues from being magnified by fixing them before they could become a problem.

I think NCWest should take a hint from this philosophy and handle issues like optimization (fps drops, memory leaks, loading errors, high resource usage, etc) before trying to implement new content. In addition, taking a bit more player input would be worthwhile, as some of the other problems are primarily regarding a conflict of interest between players and game updates (evolved stones, sacred oil, upgrade costs, server merges, 12/24man, marketplace and currency exchange taxes, etc).

Of course, I'm just one person, and this is just my perspective, so you don't have to take my advice... but I'm sure I'm not alone here in thinking these things.

[Zuzu]

12 minutes ago, xBunnie said:

Honestly, I think that your priorities are getting mixed up.

When I worked for a gameserver, we (the development team) prioritized bugfixes on previously implemented content, over implementing new content. Though this did obviously slow content updates, we were able to ensure the code stayed quite clean. As the amount of code increases, it becomes more difficult to fix bugs, because new code may depend on old, buggy code. In an essence, we prevented issues from being magnified by fixing them before they could become a problem.

I think NCWest should take a hint from this philosophy and handle issues like optimization (fps drops, memory leaks, loading errors, high resource usage, etc) before trying to implement new content. In addition, taking a bit more player input would be worthwhile, as some of the other problems are primarily regarding a conflict of interest between players and game updates (evolved stones, sacred oil, upgrade costs, server merges, 12/24man, marketplace and currency exchange taxes, etc).

Of course, I'm just one person, and this is just my perspective, so you don't have to take my advice... but I'm sure I'm not alone here in thinking these things.

But you must also remember, NCwest is only a publisher not the creators of the game. I am also for them prioritizing bug fixes but that's all up to the KR devs to do so even if NCwest requests it. But generally if something is still a bug on the KR version then it most likely won't be fixed on our version until the KR devs get to fixing it on their version first. That's something most people generally forget about NA/EU BnS.

 

Also I'm sure NCwest takes in the players' input but again, it has be approved by the KR devs before any changes can happen and if the request is denied or has to be furthered discussed and balanced then that'll take even more time. This is sadly the fate of a Publisher of a game that's not theirs.

[XianRen]

This is extremely dissapointing.  I and my clan were really looking forward to getting 12 man raids early as we can easily front 12 appropriately geared people but cannot front 24.  We were finally going to be free of combined runs with other clans :\.

 

Honestly NC i wish you would reconsider and release the 12 man raids on the 16th.

[Etzel]

The  NCsoft CEO  should not be aware of what's happening at NCwest.

 

Where is the NCsoft professionalism and commitment to your customers and fans?

 

Please, listen us. 12 Man or nothing!!!

[PhoenixMitra]

Greetings everybody,

 

We would like to take this opportunity and clarify that @Hime is indeed a staff member, despite her profile not showing that right now. We have escalated the issue of the missing tag in her profile.

 

We can also assure you that we are reading and collecting your feedback as always. Please keep it coming and just remember that it is much easier for us to sort through the feedback when it is provided in a constructive manner.

 

Thank you so much for your input!

[Sinnaru]

To be honest, releasing the 24-man version of VT and then releasing it in a few weeks as a 12-man is just a flat out bad idea. Especially for the people organizing such raids, which will cause a lot of drama between players and their placement regarding the raid itself. Besides, majority of organized raids took longer than a month to clear the BT raid for the first time. 

So releasing VT raid as a 24-man for a couple of weeks and then switching to 12-man will be a lot of wasted time for players, might aswell as to not even do 24-man VT in the first place and just wait till 12-man, since majority of organized 24-man raids will definitely wont clear it in first weeks.

[Inundated]

There's absolutely no point in adding 24 and then switching to 12 man a few weeks later.

Majority of the groups wont even clear with their 24 man groups within the first 3 weeks, and then they'll just get screwed over when they have to halve their compositions...

Over a month's time of notice was definitely enough imo

[Nightwing]

Well, these whole stuff is happening just because of one reason. Devs or whatever u call it, they do not play the game theirselves, if they do, they dont do it in a serious way. They are not part of a big clan, they dont have a big community, they re not in any single clan management. How can u guys expect them to see the damage they ve done? They can not see it, because they re not the one preparing everything about raids by considering every single details. They are not the one who got kicked from clans because of arrangements. They dont have any problems like these. They didnt take a day off like some other player said it in this topic. They didnt do nothing for it, and they are not in it. So they cant see the damage. I really hope u guys take these feedbacks seriously. Because we are really tryin to make u see the damage. I hope you revert this ridiculus change or delay the complete VT till u release it as 12Man.     o/

 

[AmatsuDF]

Game is beyond dead. Everyone should be doing mass chargebacks and abandoning before it's too late.

[ilierette]

@PhoenixMitra 
Community cleary shows that they want 12m, what else "constructive feedback" u want?

Especially since people make their agreements, setups, leave big clans to play with friends and be able to run with them. Changing it like that is just pointless.

Same as release 24m to in some months change them to 12m (for me late summer/early fall is now).  Imagine that u already cleared 24m VT, and then u must learn again for 12m. You have no respect for players time.

That engine never were designated to run 24m. It never were designated for mmo at all.
If u want massive fight - change game engine. Otherwise prepare for fps drops, performance issues even on strong computers.
The truth is, that 24m never should be released. I like the challenging aspect of game, but optimization is so bad.

With release of 24m you screw small familly-like clans and force them to join big clans. It's hard to tell how much damage you have done to playerbase and clans atmosphere. How many clans were destroyed because of raids. How many people needs to pay insane amouts of money (with low profitable quests) to whale clans for spot to have opportunity to raid. Or bidding in pug raids counting in several k gold.
Thats riddiculus. Just stop manipulate, release 12m and forget about all.

[RaslerII]

first thing i'd like to point out like many did already is it doesnt make too much sense to release VT as 24 man and swap it to 12 after 3 or 4 weeks. Plus a good majority of people dont have gear to run VT, gear that you get from skybreak spire which now is "hard" to do especially because you have to gather 24 ppl. Faction recruiting doesnt work because people dont want to do it with randoms, so you go to clans, but then clans have a hard time having 24 people online at once ,except big high gear clans that just end up selling runs because they all already have stuff. I'm a clan leader myself and with about 50 members the avarege online number is 14 and even if we try to setup stuff through discord or other means it s hard to set a time for 24 people across europe. So it s hard to get gear that allows you to do content from next patch, even with nerf of bt, cos problem is getting people.

You will be realising an update that 1% of the playerbase will be able to play. Even with it s elite dungeon role i think you would like more people to be able to play VT.

Having 12 man raids will make it much easier to form groups and will let people get gear to play the content you are adding. And also deal with the "we sell runs" problem which in my opinion is a VERY incredibly sad thing to see.

 

+ take a look at the straw poll the other guy did.