[outdated/old] Crafting Spreadsheet (profit/loss calc)

[Genzzry]

I created this for my own personal usage and it helped see what items to craft & sell on the market for profits.

 

This enabled myself and some of my guild to make quite a bit of in-game currency using crafting.

It also lets you adapt to price changes or see if a new market opens up.

 

As I no longer play B&S and most of my guild has also left... I'm now giving this to everyone here.

I hope you find it useful :)

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11TfSQW9JAUeLSpHAqcAMGvY1OcHMhusCXoG01n05ktk/edit?usp=sharing

 

 

[Arken]

Since bnsbazzar was brought down by NCsoft I haven't bother looking for another way to quick check the crafting market... but then I'm also close to leave the game as well.

Regardless, thx for the share, mate!

[Genzzry]

I've noticed quite a few people checking out the spreadsheet (some staying connected for days) but no comments or feedback about it yet.

Would be nice to know if anyone finds it useful or not... and any changes / upgrades they would like (or if anyone finds a bug, etc).

[tsubara]

hello, thanks for the hard work. i'm checking it out and will probably use it thanks

[Yndril]

I created a spreadsheet similar to this one a year ago (prior to level 50 patch), but got mostly troll feedback or people messing with prices so people couldn't maintain it. When I asked if I should update it for silverfrost content, it literally fell on deaf ear (not a single reply). So I simply took the EU version and made it private instead and left NA for dead. I've been pestered by countless Arabic and Russian names since then. I still find Google very lazy to not give me an option to disable those notifications....

 

I find it an uncanny coincidence you made this just a couple of days after I permanently deleted all of them. But I'm glad someone took up the torch.

[Genzzry]

No idea when you deleted yours, but as you can see from the revision history of the spreadsheet, mine was created from scratch back on 28 February 2016 (well before 50)... its just not been public until now :)

 

I am sure other people have also created something similar though... they just keep it to themselves as it gives an edge in knowing what to create / trade while leveling and/or for extra income.  This is why I only allowed my guild to use it, initially... and made it so that people need to create their own copy to update it.

 

Mine was initially created just before a second character so that I knew what trade skills to pick for the most reward.  It took a a few weeks to finish, as there was lots of typing and formulas... but there was a break of a few month between the two major spreadsheet updates, where I stopped playing for a bit.

 

I am also a little obsessed with spreadsheets and data, being a "retired" software engineer... and have created "complex" spreadsheets for many guilds / games in the past :)

[Yndril]

Think I made it around the same time (no way to check now, they're permanently gone), somewhere between mid February and mid Mars 2016. Made it public shortly after.

 

I deleted them permanently this monday. I meant it as in made public, and that's why I said uncanny coincidence. I know it has no relationship with me deleting it, but it is so close that one just have to be slightly skeptic anyway ^^

[Yndril]

Did you also stop playing for 1-2 months when silverfrost patch came? 

[Genzzry]

I am sure a lot of people created spreadsheets around the same time.  Most of them probably remained private though.

 

I am sorry, but I have not seen yours at all (and not had anyone mention it before), so had no way of knowing if you'd deleted it.  You say its now gone so can't be looked at for similarities?  It would be good to see other peoples work and if we took roughly the same paths or used completely different methods to achieve similar results.

 

I did do a search before starting mine to check if one already existed (so that I didn't waste energy recreating something), but as there was none available... I created mine (and kept it private for my guilds usage).  I have no idea why I made it public... I just updated my personal finances spreadsheet and noticed it sitting there unused... so shoved it up on here :)

[Genzzry]

I stopped playing before Silverfrost came out (for a few months)... and came back to checkout the Silverfrost patch when it released, added the new crafting info, etc...

...got bored within a week though - and left again.

[Yndril]

Sounds much like mine, pretty much stopped playing before silverfrost patch, and then got bored with silverfrost content within a week and took a long break.

[Genzzry]

When Silverfrost hit, I leveled my crafting back to max... and helped guild to get capes, etc... then left again.

 

The only reason I'd ever go back to B&S is if my guild needed my help again, as I swear an oath never to leave a guild that I trust unless I'm also leaving the game (or get kicked out of the guild for inactivity, etc).

 

I just don't see the point in constantly grinding the same content, when I could already buy anything that I wanted.

[Genzzry]

I don't see a way to delete forum threads here... can you point me to your spreadsheets forum thread?

I have checked your history but can not see one.

[Yndril]

I have 9 chars, I simply enjoy playing different classes, if I wanted to, i could reach max on one char, but that's not how I enjoy this game, so all 9 are pretty much the same in content.

[Yndril]

2 minutes ago, Genzzry said:

I don't see a way to delete forum threads here... can you point me to your spreadsheets forum thread?

I have checked your history but can not see one.

Believe I asked a moderator to remove it since it was just a spam thread at a certain point, might find it on reddit though.

[Genzzry]

No matter... I found your spreadsheet via googling your name:  

 

It seems you created/released yours a month AFTER mine was was created and in-use by my guild.

 

It also seems like yours is much more limited than mine, in that does not allow changing of recipes, checking different prices if you can craft precursors, uses hardcoded values instead of dynamic ones, etc.

 

Its probably a lot easier for end users though... as there is a lot less information.

 

Mine was specifically written to calculate prices based on precursor (materials) and if you could craft only SOME of the materials used, etc.  In order to do this, every step in my spreadsheet (crafting, not gathering) can choose between two different algorithms to use... and any changes to precursors (materials) ripple through the spreadsheet, automatically updating as they go.

 

Yours is essentially graph paper... nowhere near the complexity of mine.  No logic, no referencing other skills and only a single very basic formula... but as I say... probably a lot easier for end users to understand.

[Yndril]

Well, NA was the first version i made, had plans to improve on it, but those changes were never made public~ the reason for not allowing changing of recipes is because people were trolling and changing them so the spreadsheet was basically as useful as an academic report dipped in an ink bath.

 

Hopefully people are less childish with your spreadsheet.

[Yndril]

#0"g "00"s "00"c"

 

I assume you're counting from copper, you can use that custom currency to make it more readable, I think that is what you are calling hardcoded values?

 

It will make a field with only numbers be divided into gold, silver and copper, 165000 would for example be changed to 16g 50s 00c.

[Genzzry]

No, a hardcoded value is one that needs typed in by a human (either by the creator or someone editing it later).

As you will see from mine, if you click a price... most of them are set programatically (dynamic values) so that one change can ripple through multiple entries.

 

For instance... change any "Did you take this skill" between "yes" and "no", and you will see a lot of the values change automatically... because cells will change where they are getting their values from.

 

Most of my spreadsheet uses dynamic values so that it can work things out for you, and lots of cells that can choose which formula to use based on values in the spreadsheet and choices you've selected on it (try clicking a "TotalPrice" in a crafting recipe material, to see what I mean).

 

Yours needs you to enter every value manually (apart from "Profit per Hour").  It makes no decisions and only does a very basic calculation, so is not much better than writing them on graph paper, in pencil.  You have also hardcoded the cell location of material values, etc in your spreadsheet... where-as mine goes looking for the name of the material & then uses its price, allowing you to move them around, expand sections, etc.

 

This is not meant as a criticism though... they are just very different spreadsheets for different types of users.

[Yndril]

I see them changing, but I see no reason for the change? Whether you've taken a crafting skill or not does not impact how much it cost to craft it. If you do not have the skill, you can't craft it, and the cost (and thus gain) from crafting will remain the same no matter if you craft the stages yourself.

 

Let me give you an example. If you have prospectors union and forgekeepers. and the cost to craft (10) orichalcum is 4s 32c and a piece sells for about 2s each, the profit for that crafting is 15s 68c (minus market fee). Now craft 20 repair tools, that's 40 times 2s (roughly) plus 4s 32c, so a 84s 32c cost, each repair tool is worth about 5s each so the profit would be... I did not prepare this in advance... same as crafting orichalcum; 15s 68c (minus a bigger market fee since the price is higher). If you now remove the cost to buy materials (since you craft it yourself), that would mean that the "profit" from crafting those repair tools would be 78s 40c, but you would earn more from just gathering and selling the orichalcum.

 

This time, it worked out and even if the profit is minor from crafting the repair tools there still was one, but imagine if it was a loss instead to craft that particular item? But the intermediate steps were real moneybringers? You would see a profit from it on your tables, but in actuality, you are actually losing money from crafting it. I did have "self-craft profit" in my spreadsheet before, but I realized that what was actually interesting is the profit for each recipe, not profit from each step combined, as sometimes, the final product is a loss, and you would've been better off to sell the materials instead of crafting it.

[RavTH]

pretty out dated

[Genzzry]

Care to elaborate, RavTH?

Has there been more recipes added to B&S, or changes since this was made?

[Yndril]

You just ignored my explanation?

 

Ah, yeah, RavTH is right, it is pretty outdated. Most notably Silver cauldron and Radiant Ring, they merged the antidotes into one antidote for all dungeons (instead of one for each region) as well as lowering the prices for a lot of the recipes. Radiant Ring was changed about a month ago. Think you can only craft square and penta now (but they are much stronger) and gem fragments have been removed.

[Genzzry]

RatTH:

Thanks for the information! (and Yndril for clarifying his reply).

 

I have not logged into B&S for quite some time, so was unaware that they changed stuff a month ago.  It was wrong of me to not check the game before releasing outdated material.  I apologize.  As soon as I have some free time, I will patch the game and fix the spreadsheets recipes to be current, along with entering current market data for "my" server (Old Man Cho).

 

 

 

Yndril: I did not ignore your "explanation".  You created a hypothesis then disproved it with your own math... you then ended by stating a different (untested) hypothesis.  These statements added nothing to the discussion, so I did not feel like it needed a reply.  I am sure that you are capable of proving/disproving your own hypothesis.  Are you asking me to do it for you?

 

My guess, is that the materials section would clearly show (in that specific case) that the profits of the materials would be higher than the other items, so people would be smart enough to sell what made them the most money (as it has done for me in the past).  The only problem you encounter with selling materials though... is that you need to sell them in bulk, or you hit the daily selling limit.

 

If you make a statement like "Here is what I think... oh... it turns out I am wrong... I think something else now but I've not tested it." and actually want a reply, then please ask a question somewhere within it.  Otherwise I will just take your statement as a statement (and not a question, needing a reply).

[Yndril]

Let me put it in a way you would understand then, prices fluctuate, and the repair tools were worth about 4 silver at a certain point not very long ago, at the same time, the orichalcum was the same as it is now, according to your formulas, that would've been a 58s 40c profit crafting those repair tools, when you actually lose money, 4s 32c (before market fees on both), which would make crafting that pointless, since you would've been better off selling the materials and buy the final product. if you wanted that, or just sell the materials if you wanted the money.

 

Sadly, it happens a lot that the final product cost more than you earn from selling it. but the intermediate steps is pure profit. From your table, it is entirely possible that everything in a crafting is not worth crafting (everything is a loss) but since you have a gathering skill, it could still say that it is a profit, when the profit lies entirely in the materials and you would've been better off going another crafting profession and simply sell the materials. As it is now, your table is only reflecting the truth if you have every single profession set to no.

 

Ironically I've been on the other end of this argument, but the truth is, we only want to know what we can profit from a recipe, not from making all the steps up to the recipe.