RagingPhenix

The end result of the hands of xanos cry baby fiesta. updated

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Here's some facts. You know how Today's Special works. You know it is not supposed to sell anything at unlimited quantities. Why would you even try buy more than what it tells you to be the maximum amount you can buy.
Meaning if it suddenly does do that for some odd reason without ncsoft putting out any official informations about it,
it is obviously a glitch or something that was not supposed to happen, because common sense. Yet you all took advantage of it in hopes of getting a bracelet faster.
So in the end, who really is at fault here?

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Today's Special was never defined if it is supposed to have unlimited or not! 

There is no such definition ever defined! Trove is unlimited keys, RNG box is unlimited, Buying gold using ncoins is unlimited.  game is so p2win [or pay to progress faster]n It looks more like a logical trend given how much pay2win [or pay to progress faster]  is done in this game.

it NS soft is that one who took  advantages since they put it up and the day before also plus added "fixed priced" which even to imply  buy many! 

[Plus to think further for the opposite case: even if you accidentally sold a premium silverfrost transformation stone at the market place for 1G and someone bought it, who's to blame? you won't get a refund for such things. You already did the seiling. Now you want to hunt the buyer and make them suffer?]


  

Edited by LaraKelly

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Leyren   

Wow.. they do an error - people cry

they try to hotfix it - people cry

they roll back those who exploited it - people cry.

So basically, no matter what they do, it was wrong?

 

Also, do you also believe in lizard people ruling the world? Seriously, if NCSoft wants to have an unlimited amount of Hands to be bought, they put them in the shop. There is no need to find excuses. I mean, if they see people are unhappy with this, they would rather haven't changed it at all for that day (and simply not put it in again), or they would've said that this was intentional. Stop making people look worse than they are, gosh.

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No one exploited it! It was all for sale!

 

Like you just said if they wanted to sell unlimited hand of xanos they would: and guess what? they just did that and sold  unlimited hand of xanos in it the shop  but they  later the claim it was an error later!

 

Edited by LaraKelly

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Leyren   
26 minutes ago, LaraKelly said:

No one exploited it! It was all for sale!

 

Like you just said if they wanted to sell unlimited hand of xanos they would: and guess what? they just did that and sold  unlimited hand of xanos in it the shop  but they  later the claim it was an error later!

 

That is the point. There is no reason for them to claim it was an error if it wasn't. And like I said, some of you made it pretty obvious that you would've been complaining no matter what happened. Seriously, some people behave like everything in the world is a big conspiracy.

And for the sake of completeness, let me explain to you the meaning of an exploit. If there is an unwanted feature, also known as a bug, and people (with or without knowledge that this is a bug) take advantage of it, they exploited it. There is no way around this.

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yes they NS soft exploited it! I agree!

Today special never was defined if it was unlimited or not!
exploit as you defined mean a known bug, unwanted feature...none of those happen...you can buy without even doing any strange things. It was flat out sold as unlimited hands of xanos and you even think it is possible for such a thing to happen and it did.

[Trove keys is unlimited, RNG box is unlimited, Buying gold using ncoins is unlimited.  game is so p2win (or pay to progress faster). It looks more like a logical trend given how much pay2win (or pay to progress faster)  is done in this game. Thus unlimited hands of xanos sales fits and looks very logical]

Edited by LaraKelly

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Charas   
2 hours ago, LaraKelly said:

yes they NS soft exploited it! I agree!

Today special never was defined if it was unlimited or not!
exploit as you defined mean a known bug, unwanted feature...none of those happen...you can buy without even doing any strange things. It was flat out sold as unlimited hands of xanos and you even think it is possible for such a thing to happen and it did.

[Trove keys is unlimited, RNG box is unlimited, Buying gold using ncoins is unlimited.  game is so p2win (or pay to progress faster). It looks more like a logical trend given how much pay2win (or pay to progress faster)  is done in this game. Thus unlimited hands of xanos sales fits and looks very logical]

Well well... there is always a limited amount you can buy from "todays sale". And every single time it wasn't the case, it was a bug and resulted in rollbacks... refunds... etc.

 

Now I got it, you saw an oportunity to buy the Bracelet with irl money and you took it. But it was obvious since the very beginning it wasn't what NC intended.

 

You wanted to p2w.... you paid... and ended up loosing.

 

Hopefully you gonna learn your lesson and think twice before exploiting an obvious bug! And hopefully NC will also learn their lesson and fking double check datas before putting something on sale.

 

That whole mess is embarassing, and quite relevant of the current game state : 

On one side we have the P2W ppl ready to open their wallet and pay unreasonnable prices to have endgame equips using their irl money.

On the other side, there is NC soft and their amateurism. 

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It was never obvious!  Maybe you think that way that is fine! 


If i follow this logic I would think what about the 10 limit on items is that supposed to be 10 or 3? I buy 10 later and suddenly it a bug again and claimed it was supposed to be 3. or is that item supposed be for sale at all? maybe it was a bug, all the item was a bug? Buying any is a bug? I am now supposed be make predictions try and guess which one is a bug or not? Following that logic is thus I just can't trust anything on sale at face value and have to come up with complex interpretations  to try figure out. Which I feel is now the case with today's special where it cannot be trusted at all or really buying anything from the shop now cannot be trusted at all they can be easily claimed to be an error!

It flat out was sold as is! I already showed the reasoning why it more logical to think it unlimited was the way the game is going with all it unlimited trove, gold buying, and RNG boxes.  and in fact the day before it was the same. had an item unlimited and nothing happened!  So thus I saw it as how the game was going and it was sold as it and NOT a bug at all.

[Plus to think further for the opposite case: even if you accidentally sold a premium silverfrost transformation stone at the market place for 1G and someone bought it, who's to blame? you won't get a refund for such things. You already did the seiling. Now you want to hunt the buyer and make them suffer for your mistake?]

Edited by LaraKelly

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Lucidly   

It's not unreasonable to think the unlimited hands was intentional. I think it was intentional just because of all the different kinds of materials that were being sold in f10. But someone at NCWest panicked after the P2W outcry, so they made bandaid changes which ultimately resulted in this poorly thought out rollback. It's not even a true rollback. I never bought any of the hands but I can definitely understand how it would feel as someone who did. I would ask for a refund for the NCoin that was bought.

 

All in all, this is an extremely messy situation, but I can only blame the company for this.

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Leyren   
2 minutes ago, Lucidly said:

It's not unreasonable to think the unlimited hands was intentional. I think it was intentional just because of all the different kinds of materials that were being sold in f10. But someone at NCWest panicked after the P2W outcry, so they made bandaid changes which ultimately resulted in this poorly thought out rollback. It's not even a true rollback. I never bought any of the hands but I can definitely understand how it would feel as someone who did. I would ask for a refund for the NCoin that was bought.

 

All in all, this is an extremely messy situation, but I can only blame the company for this.

Well, it is not that unreasonable to think it was intentional, but to think that it is intentional, then in some messy way spontaneously hotfixed (which wouldn't happen that fast anyway, since there is a whole financial business model behind this, which is calculated through) and then claimed to be a bug in fear of being criticised is enormously ridiculous.

Also, the affected players did get a bonus  in HMCoins, defined by the amount of items they got rolled back.

 

The point is, what does this thread even try to accomplish? Philosophise about conspiracy theories whether it was a bug or not? Everybody else would be useless anyway, since a rollback never pleases anyone. No rollback? Everybody else would feel cheated on. Rollback? Those people who spent their money on this won't be happy.

The optimal thing would be that bugs won't happen, but this simply is not how software development works. Those things happen, they tried to fix it, and in my honest opinion in the overall most fair way. For affected players a bitter pill, but still.

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The whole point of a forum is to vend out how ones feels etc or we just sit back and say nothing?

and the main point of this tread is to show it wasn't done right at all! and for one I am not happy at all!
It could have even be rolled back correctly but not even that was done or even attempted

 

NsSoft screwed up and screw players up not the best solution this is what is pointed out. 








 

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Lucidly   
1 minute ago, Leyren said:

Well, it is not that unreasonable to think it was intentional, but to think that it is intentional, then in some messy way spontaneously hotfixed (which wouldn't happen that fast anyway, since there is a whole financial business model behind this, which is calculated through) and then claimed to be a bug in fear of being criticised is enormously ridiculous.

Also, the affected players did get a bonus  in HMCoins, defined by the amount of items they got rolled back.

 

The point is, what does this thread even try to accomplish? Philosophise about conspiracy theories whether it was a bug or not? Everybody else would be useless anyway, since a rollback never pleases anyone. No rollback? Everybody else would feel cheated on. Rollback? Those people who spent their money on this won't be happy.

The optimal thing would be that bugs won't happen, but this simply is not how software development works. Those things happen, they tried to fix it, and in my honest opinion in the overall most fair way. For affected players a bitter pill, but still.

I just don't think it's possible for it to be a bug for one specific item in the store, especially one so high in demand. Bug is just an umbrella term used for any mistake to shift the blame over to the software side even when it's a human error. The first fix they tried was limiting the hands. The second was this half-assed refund disguised as a rollback.

 

The bonus HMCoin is like getting a 10% off coupon from the company. It works and it's something, but it's ultimately worthless.

 

Software development can have bugs. I just believe this was a user error (perhaps in judgement) of whoever put up the hands for sale. It's not a bug.

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Cyras   
38 minutes ago, Lucidly said:

I just don't think it's possible for it to be a bug for one specific item in the store, especially one so high in demand. Bug is just an umbrella term used for any mistake to shift the blame over to the software side even when it's a human error. The first fix they tried was limiting the hands. The second was this half-assed refund disguised as a rollback.

 

The bonus HMCoin is like getting a 10% off coupon from the company. It works and it's something, but it's ultimately worthless.

 

Software development can have bugs. I just believe this was a user error (perhaps in judgement) of whoever put up the hands for sale. It's not a bug.

It's kind of funny how you aren't willing to call it a bug, but instead a user error. Guess what a bug in this case usually is? A "user" error. Someone did something wrong/unintended in the code, during the software development as you per your example.

This was also not just for one specific item, it was for 3 items. IIRC, all 3 were also placed in the same slot in Today's specials, may or may not be relevant. Anyway, people in here need to take off those tinfoil hats. Shit happens, send a ticket to NCSoft if you want your money back instead of whining here.

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Lucidly   
8 minutes ago, Cyras said:

It's kind of funny how you aren't willing to call it a bug, but instead a user error. Guess what a bug in this case usually is? A "user" error. Someone did something wrong/unintended in the code, during the software development as you per your example.

This was also not just for one specific item, it was for 3 items. IIRC, all 3 were also placed in the same slot in Today's specials, may or may not be relevant. Anyway, people in here need to take off those tinfoil hats. Shit happens, send a ticket to NCSoft if you want your money back instead of whining here.

I don't think user input error means something wrong with the code that the software developer created. But I'd rather not argue over specific terms.

 

If it's 3 items, then I'll be glad to say I'm wrong. It's unfortunate the choice of items they placed in that specific slot.

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Zuzu   
2 hours ago, LaraKelly said:

The whole point of a forum is to vend out how ones feels etc or we just sit back and say nothing?

and the main point of this tread is to show it wasn't done right at all! and for one I am not happy at all!
It could have even be rolled back correctly but not even that was done or even attempted

NsSoft screwed up and screw players up not the best solution this is what is pointed out.
 

I'll repeat myself: This is a Damned if you do, Damned if you don't situation.

 

You can voice your displeasure but nothing is going to change. This was probably a tough decision for them because either way they would've gotten complaints out the ass. They can't please everyone with every decision they make, look at what happens on every single update that happens.

 

As for doing a rollback, they can only do so much. When it comes to people selling their gold for HMcoins, they can't dabble in that situation because that's a player to player transaction. They aren't able to go take back the gold that was sold via to another player because they don't know if that gold was spent already or not so the most they can do is just refund them their HMcoins that were spent. NCoins, I won't comment since I don't know what's possible and what's not possible.

 

There's always going to be people like yourself that's going to throw conspiracy theories around if something doesn't go your way. It happens all the time if an error happens.

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 so following you advice  we all should keep quiet when thing has been messed up...and just let people mess up and screw up ... not even express it in a forum where that is the purpose of the forum.

and you just assume somehow that's the best they can do?

and assume nothing else can be done?

and you say I am doing conspiracy theories? when you push your conspiracy theories on me!

[Example:  if you not willing to do a complete roll back with all factors in then don't do it, why not just just give a choice of getting gold as a refund? You put may claim to have put yourself in a Damned if you do, Damned if you don't situation,  since you went down the path of screwing up those who bought from and somehow assume this is the only path? or if you smart enough bette path may be found which does not involve screwing up buyers, like how the issue with trove was handled -- and really it doesn't matter I am just one of them who are not happy with this and have bad image of ncsoft now, they be many more upset, trying to sweep this under the rug will not cure such feelings for me and the others.]

Edited by LaraKelly

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Conspiracy theories, and lizard people? Nobody in this thread is throwing out conspiracy theories and aliens exist speeches. Some people here have legitimately lost money and gold during this roll back and haven't been fully refunded. If you got all your mats back, all your hongmoon coin, gold, elysian crystals, moonstones, bracelet's, ect. That is great, and I'm happy for you, but there are still people who haven't been fully refunded. Someone even mentioned a clan member getting to keep some of his hands while still getting a full refund. Whether that is true or not, they must have been rushing to get those bracelets out of peoples inventories cause there are still people missing items.

 

Zuzu is right, this is definitely a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. No matter what they do, some will still be salty over having their bracelets removed, but there people who were legitimately cheated, and lost items in the process. It's unreasonable to assume they're just spreading conspiracy theories, cause not everyone is in that boat. I have yet to get a response over my missing True Boss bracelet, and still await a proper refund. 

 

I also want to know why they haven't temporarily disabled Today's Specials if this is truly a software bug? This isn't the first time this has happened, and they have yet to address the unlimited Zakhan claws. Why not disable it for some time to work out all the bugs? In my opinion, if they had done this in addition to the roll back, a lot of people would have been happier because it shows this was truly unintentional. Otherwise, it feels like they're hiding behind the people who participated in the sale, like trying to shift some of the blame towards us.

 

 

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Zuzu   
2 hours ago, Dreadomir said:

Conspiracy theories, and lizard people? Nobody in this thread is throwing out conspiracy theories and aliens exist speeches. Some people here have legitimately lost money and gold during this roll back and haven't been fully refunded. If you got all your mats back, all your hongmoon coin, gold, elysian crystals, moonstones, bracelet's, ect. That is great, and I'm happy for you, but there are still people who haven't been fully refunded. Someone even mentioned a clan member getting to keep some of his hands while still getting a full refund. Whether that is true or not, they must have been rushing to get those bracelets out of peoples inventories cause there are still people missing items.

Zuzu is right, this is definitely a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. No matter what they do, some will still be salty over having their bracelets removed, but there people who were legitimately cheated, and lost items in the process. It's unreasonable to assume they're just spreading conspiracy theories, cause not everyone is in that boat. I have yet to get a response over my missing True Boss bracelet, and still await a proper refund.

I also want to know why they haven't temporarily disabled Today's Specials if this is truly a software bug? This isn't the first time this has happened, and they have yet to address the unlimited Zakhan claws. Why not disable it for some time to work out all the bugs? In my opinion, if they had done this in addition to the roll back, a lot of people would have been happier because it shows this was truly unintentional. Otherwise, it feels like they're hiding behind the people who participated in the sale, like trying to shift some of the blame towards us.

The reason I mentioned conspiracy theories is that people coming in and saying that NCwest intentionally did this to scam people and that none of this was at fault of an error.

 

But the people, including yourself, that haven't been refunded yet is indeed a problem but alas all you can do is send a Support Ticket and wait since I can only imagine how many other people have not been rightfully refunded yet. That's something I feel that is wrong and it's taking a while but they did also mention it's a complex and manual process so I can see why it's taking a while since it has to be done by everyone who was affected by this.

 

@LaraKelly Did I say you should stay quiet? No. I said that you can voice your displeasure but when it comes to a situation like this your complaints isn't going to suddenly change everything. This is a decision they had to come to and aren't going to deviate from the plan. They've already seen their faults and are trying their best to make up for it.

 

Not sure how I'm throwing a conspiracy theory onto you when that's the truth when it comes to HMcoins or F5. They aren't able to do anything between Player to Player transactions. Unless for some reason I'm completely wrong then please enlighten me.

 

And also going off of what you said in another thread: "If this was the best solution then everyone would be happy"

No, not at all. With ANY solution there will always be people that are mad/unsatisfied by the outcome, this will always be a fact. There will never be a time where everyone is completely satisfied by a decision NCwest has done; look at the past Cost Reductions, the nerfs to dungeons if you need examples.

Edited by Zuzu

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and  thus your theory is it is actually an accident and the lack of caring or wanting to hurt the players it or not even willing to do a rollback properly is all acceptable!

ok that you opinion! 
not the way I feel or how I feel.

Edited by LaraKelly

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rexoe   

the problem was people wanted the rollback and the money back but if you ask for the money back and you get it you´ll get banned :D

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FrozenB   

I just don't understand why they set a limit of the xano hands after they found the mistakes. They should have just kept the unlimited even though they found that it was an error. Even with the unlimited xano hands, you will need to buy 200 of them. 35 NC coins each = 7000 NC coins or HM coins. In term of HM coins with today's in game ratio of 1 gold: 3.5HM coins, it is about 2000-2200 golds in total. So, that's about the median bid price if you run the actual dungeon and the legendary bracelet chest drop. If you happen to run with a bunch of poor people, you could get it with less than 1k golds, which is cheaper than buying in HM store.

 

So, I am just quite loss with the GMs logic behind this issue. Are they still day-dreaming that the in game currency ratio is 1 golds:9.0 HM coins? LOL....

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ShiroUmi   

 

 

It is fun to see people still consider B&S to be P2Progress, oh my sweet sweet naive childs.~ 

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Alkaa   
9 hours ago, ShiroUmi said:

It is fun to see people still consider B&S to be P2Progress, oh my sweet sweet naive childs.~ 

or maybe it's you ?

You can't really expect people to ignore some facts and just believe on what you have to say... a nobody ... and I / we can't really expect to believe what I have to say since I'm a nobody as well.

 

BUT .. in the end .. the results will stand... and it can go in only 2 ways.

a ) it's not.. thus people staying in the game

b ) it is.. thus people leaving the game.

 

Now .. here's the catch .. if you were in this game from the very start, then you might be inclined to "b" .. because we all know the quote we had to stay to just log in... if not.. well will it was fun...  low level zones were full... left and right people.. you didn't need cross servers because of the amount of people was more then enough... oh.. golden days,  but then something happened in a VERY short amount of time, people started to quit and after that a huge amount of people decided to quit and because of the lack people they gave us the cross servers that saved the game, after that because towns were empty they gave us a merge witch managed to stop the bleeding... but not fully.

The bleeding is still there, slower, I think it will still take around a year for it to start once more were they will be forced to unite the other servers and make no mistake they will,  because the game is very PVE friendly but with no real challenge, people reach max or close to max and quit, that's why they keep feeding us stuff... you don't have to be a detective to understand the steps.

 

But .. what will happen after the other merges happen ? what then ?  why are people leaving if it's not p2w ? .. well.. it might be because you do THE SAME THING DAY IN AND DAY OUT ...  maybe just maybe because we have very bad rewards for the amount of money we spend compared to other regions .. maybe and just maybe they keep pushing down our throats that "we try to be like the other regions" .. but they NEVER reply to our comments regarding the currency and why others get 100x more gold then we do.

 

It's like on all the stuff they do .. WE need to smack them over the head and tell them.. "THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS" ....    and that says a lot about the staff that runs this game.

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bidding bracelet in NS may be alot cheaper than buying 200 xano hands for 7000ncoin

7000ncoin, even at 1:3 ratio, is 2300gold+

especially for players who have not alot of time to run NS 200 times

paying ncoin may seem cheaper to them and bns gets their money, win win

instead a roll back on mats + 800hm coin is like an insult

if this is the case, then roll back last trove loot and refund keys

no need to keep loot and give double keys

this xano hand incident sure has turned out to be a train wreck

Edited by SoraTokonome

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On 7/16/2017 at 3:04 AM, Amarathiel said:

Here's some facts. You know how Today's Special works. You know it is not supposed to sell anything at unlimited quantities. Why would you even try buy more than what it tells you to be the maximum amount you can buy.
Meaning if it suddenly does do that for some odd reason without ncsoft putting out any official informations about it,
it is obviously a glitch or something that was not supposed to happen, because common sense. Yet you all took advantage of it in hopes of getting a bracelet faster.
So in the end, who really is at fault here?

Where are the facts? You made a few assumptions based on previous store patterns, but your assumptions are no more correct than someone logging in and taking what they see at face-value. At most, we can argue from a player perspective that this was unusual, but that's about it. 

 

Why would people try to buy more? Because the store literally allowed and provided a fixed currency format for the unlimited purchase. How much are you defining "more" as, anyway? NCSoft now has a daily limit of three. Meanwhile, they applied the roll-back to quantities of 11+, which is still an allowable 3x (+1) what you'd be able to normally purchase. This was probably a bone thrown to players, but it's yet another example of inconsistency. 

 

So in the end, NCSoft is at fault. They advertised something they had no intention of delivering, whether intentional or not.

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