What have you done?

[Kosako Assano]

52 minutes ago, XO said:

well, if I remember correctly the reason why it took so long for this game to be published to NA/EU is because no one else wanted to publish it. I'm not sure why, they just didn't.

Let me tell you why... It's because server costs; this is a 'Unreal Engine 3' based game, this engine is not meant to be used to make MMOs.
Each dungeon, each area of the game is separate game.exe process running on server which players connect and leave constantly... each of these 'game.exe' server regions can eat hundreds of MB of RAM and be 500MB up to 4GB in disk size.

That means, in general, that Blade & Soul and other MMOs based on UE3 such as Tera Online have massive server costs when compared to a classic WoW server model.

Nobody want to run a game that cost so much... unless you milk the 'whales' like there's no tomorrow. So as soon as paying players drop, the game is doomed. Servers won't run for cheap...

 

Btw, if not for the way the engine works, wall running and these ninja stuff wouldn't even be possible for players to do. Enjoy the tons of paywalls just because you can Windwalk :)

[XO]

4 minutes ago, Kosako Assano said:

Let me tell you why... It's because server costs; this is a 'Unreal Engine 3' based game, this engine is not meant to be used to make MMOs.
Each dungeon, each area of the game is separate game.exe process running on server which players connect and leave constantly... each of these 'game.exe' server regions can eat hundreds of MB of RAM and be 500MB up to 4GB in disk size.

That means, in general, that Blade & Soul and other MMOs based on UE3 such as Tera Online have massive server costs when compared to a classic WoW server model.

Nobody want to run a game that cost so much... unless you milk the 'whales' like there's no tomorrow. So as soon as paying players drop, the game is doomed. Servers won't run for cheap...

 

Btw, if not for the way the engine works, wall running and these ninja stuff wouldn't even be possible for players to do. Enjoy the tons of paywalls just because you can Windwalk :)

This is very interesting but I'm curious how is wow engine different? The world is bigger than BnS, there's tons of dungeons/phasing in and out, the invisible walls are very minimal, you can mount, you can fly, you can swim, you can take boats various places, hell you can even take a train. There's portals in main cities. Like how do they run all that without doing what BnS or Tera does? If that makes sense.

[ARC-1276]

Perhaps if the community can all come together and collectively agree on a single problem that needs fixing, maybe then we can finally have a break through.

 

 

We all need to have a collective agreement on something in this current business model, that needs to go. Say it now and say it proud, because I think the one item that causes the most amount of harm to the in game economy is the Troves, and the Daily specials.

 

End them NCsoft. No more Troves, and no more Daily Specials. 

[Kosako Assano]

4 hours ago, XO said:

This is very interesting but I'm curious how is wow engine different? The world is bigger than BnS, there's tons of dungeons/phasing in and out, the invisible walls are very minimal, you can mount, you can fly, you can swim, you can take boats various places, hell you can even take a train. There's portals in main cities. Like how do they run all that without doing what BnS or Tera does? If that makes sense.

Think of it this way...

 

WoW server, the base, is more than 20 years old; it is "pure code" and each instance or dungeon are very small exe processes, pure C++ code.

It doesn't simulate physics, only very simple collisions.

 

Unreal Engine's server however is built for FPS arena games... And for that, each region or dungeon server is an exact "mirror" of what you see in your PC; it simulates real-time physics and replicates to each close player in same region that can see you (chat is a separate server, split from game servers).

Because of PhyX features and such, Unreal Engine's server exe is much much bigger and requires much more resources to run than a WoW server and it's only possible for you to play Blade n Soul on such heavy engine because of the many Portals you see between regions and cities... Every time you cross one of those round portals you are traveling to another  server.exe process. The machines running these processes, to handle 1.000 ~ 5.000 players online, must be huge hardware. This is why they split servers into "groups" on this game.

WoW servers are so much more lightweight that each realm (machine) can handle more than 10x what BnS can have only at same time.

 

WoW is so old, it doesn't even use an "engine"; the game is built directly on top of DirectX/OpenGL in pure C++ code (thus very optimized), and the mechanics are super simple which require small server traffic peer player and small CPU usage on the server hardware.

[Leyren]

22 hours ago, ombremq said:

what are you talking about? just create one character and go full free to play, i'll do the same being a credit card warrior....boom instant lvl 50, boom instant every Hm skills, i Wonder how long that will take you to beat me in arena.

Wow, you are seriously crying about HM skills and insta lvl 50 being P2W? Lvl 50 is a thing of 2 days, and only a few HM skills are really important for the classes. And they for sure won't make you automatically win the match, not even close.

[ombremq]

1 hour ago, Leyren said:

Wow, you are seriously crying about HM skills and insta lvl 50 being P2W? Lvl 50 is a thing of 2 days, and only a few HM skills are really important for the classes. And they for sure won't make you automatically win the match, not even close.

i am just pointing the fact that even in arena, you can't really say its fair btw f2p and p2w and the prove is i and a lot of people gave up on alts because farming hm skills is not an easy task.... lvl 50 in 2 days is probably easy for someone like you, or anyone else with no job and full time playing this game but certainly not for rest of people.

To conclude  you want to face me without hm skills so we can try? you want to face anyone else with a functional brain without hm skills let's try...let's settle this debate in a "trial by combat" !

oh and no one crying, i know it's a comon thing for Young people to see tears everywhere but in adult world we just call it an argument.

[Tempestive]

I used to play BnS, then about a year ago, got fed up with the whole GG sh*tuation and decided (and had to, old rig) to stop playing until the issue was addressed.
I came to check on how it was doing, and although they apparently changed some things...

 

This:

12 hours ago, poisonedOcean said:

The main issue is, as I see, the distance between NCSoft and the BnS community. All that follows is a consequence of that.

As I said in another thread before, there's a lot of business models out there that are profitable for them and not harmful to the community (e.g. GrindGearGames)

But NCWest doesn't know how to stay close and keep in touch with community, with all due respect to the community staff's work.

The comercialization of anything, from my experience, will make the consumers priorities less important.

I've played a few NCWest games over the years, and sadly, I don't think anyone should really expect anything else at this point.

I'm off to play the competitors games now, heh. Good luck.

 

[Arkdain]

39 minutes ago, ombremq said:

i am just pointing the fact that even in arena, you can't really say its fair btw f2p and p2w and the prove is i and a lot of people gave up on alts because farming hm skills is not an easy task.... lvl 50 in 2 days is probably easy for someone like you, or anyone else with no job and full time playing this game but certainly not for rest of people.

To conclude  you want to face me without hm skills so we can try? you want to face anyone else with a functional brain without hm skills let's try...let's settle this debate in a "trial by combat" !

oh and no one crying, i know it's a comon thing for Young people to see tears everywhere but in adult world we just call it an argument.

having all hm skill unlocked whiout any little effort would be a hit to manny player or manny of my clannies do pvp to get their offal and stuff whiout any hm skill they yet won against lvl 50 hm 10+ because having Hm skill dont make you invencible yes they give advantage but must be used for someone who know what is doing.

There are a loot of pve way to get the items but yet pvp seem the faster way( chilling flame never saw a ember drop from asura)

Now most skill unlocker items are bound to account, unlocking LMB Hm is a joke now if you have a character whit high achievement point just buy all the item on zaiweii and send them to the alt the hongmoon pellet is even easier now whit clan crafting to get 3.

 

Some people complained the day that pvp box was on the market but is just 1 time buy(used it in one alt) i cant say how manny mmo i played where skill that must be unlocked are on stupid long ass quest or must get a very ultra mega rare item while pay players  have the item rigth on the store unlimited

 

[RavTH]

On 7/10/2017 at 9:45 AM, Tsuzor said:

U say our trove is P2W than u dont even know what p2w we get only materials in trove and some gems thats it imagine if we had this trove now oh god prolly u would quit now >..>

 

you do realise Tencent is powerful company? at least in China if you do story you can get up to least 900ap with th gear they provide you with. and exp tables changed.

[ombremq]

@Arkdain your argument make sense i won't contradict you, but i still think being able to instant lvl 50 and instant buy every hm skills give you a serious advantage, and i am not talking about pve people "one & done " daily, i think the instant 50 & hm skills is usefull pvper and like i said functional brain people doing pvp arent that bad...we all know how low the drop rate is for most of mats to unlock hm skills and how dead the ladder is in arena, and if you compare two new fresh player focusing on pvp, the credit card warrior will have weeks of advantages.

[poisonedOcean]

3 hours ago, Tempestive said:

I used to play BnS, then about a year ago, got fed up with the whole GG sh*tuation and decided (and had to, old rig) to stop playing until the issue was addressed.
I came to check on how it was doing, and although they apparently changed some things...

 

This:

The comercialization of anything, from my experience, will make the consumers priorities less important.

I've played a few NCWest games over the years, and sadly, I don't think anyone should really expect anything else at this point.

I'm off to play the competitors games now, heh. Good luck.

 

Nope.

The commercialization of anything should actually raise  the quality of that thing. Let's put it simple...

Business seeks profit, but profit don't grow on trees. Consumer equals profit. If consumers aren't satisfied, if their priorities aren't addressed, you'll lose your business. 

Commercialization that does not priorizes consumer, isn't commercialization. It's just something doomed to fail. 

 

[XO]

7 hours ago, Kosako Assano said:

Think of it this way...

 

WoW server, the base, is more than 20 years old; it is "pure code" and each instance or dungeon are very small exe processes, pure C++ code.

It doesn't simulate physics, only very simple collisions.

 

Unreal Engine's server however is built for FPS arena games... And for that, each region or dungeon server is an exact "mirror" of what you see in your PC; it simulates real-time physics and replicates to each close player in same region that can see you (chat is a separate server, split from game servers).

Because of PhyX features and such, Unreal Engine's server exe is much much bigger and requires much more resources to run than a WoW server and it's only possible for you to play Blade n Soul on such heavy engine because of the many Portals you see between regions and cities... Every time you cross one of those round portals you are traveling to another  server.exe process. The machines running these processes, to handle 1.000 ~ 5.000 players online, must be huge hardware. This is why they split servers into "groups" on this game.

WoW servers are so much more lightweight that each realm (machine) can handle more than 10x what BnS can have only at same time.

 

WoW is so old, it doesn't even use an "engine"; the game is built directly on top of DirectX/OpenGL in pure C++ code (thus very optimized), and the mechanics are super simple which require small server traffic peer player and small CPU usage on the server hardware.

Oh wow, thank you for taking the time to explain this to me! But that's really interesting to learn.

[Leyren]

5 hours ago, ombremq said:

i am just pointing the fact that even in arena, you can't really say its fair btw f2p and p2w and the prove is i and a lot of people gave up on alts because farming hm skills is not an easy task.... lvl 50 in 2 days is probably easy for someone like you, or anyone else with no job and full time playing this game but certainly not for rest of people.

To conclude  you want to face me without hm skills so we can try? you want to face anyone else with a functional brain without hm skills let's try...let's settle this debate in a "trial by combat" !

oh and no one crying, i know it's a comon thing for Young people to see tears everywhere but in adult world we just call it an argument.

My point is that there is something between f2p and p2w. If you even consider lvl 50 and HM skills as p2w, then every game with an online shop would be p2w. And if you think about the words "pay" "to" "win"... do I win or have enormously higher chances to win just by having HM skills? Hell no, someone good in PvP would still wreck those people blindfolded.

I would consider criticising (especially destructive criticism) about every little advantage of payers as crying or whining, since some of those advantages are badly needed to keep the money flowing. So implying the p2w card on everything makes it seem that you would like to have exactly the same chances as a paying player.

And how do you, in your "adult world", call someone thinking that everyone which does not conform to his or her opinion must be a younger person / teenager?

59 minutes ago, poisonedOcean said:

Nope.

The commercialization of anything should actually raise  the quality of that thing. Let's put it simple...

Business seeks profit, but profit don't grow on trees. Consumer equals profit. If consumers aren't satisfied, if their priorities aren't addressed, you'll lose your business. 

Commercialization that does not priorizes consumer, isn't commercialization. It's just something doomed to fail. 

 

This is way too simplified. You can even lose big parts of your consumers and have the majority of the players be unhappy and still have profit. Especially when talking about free 2 play games, where the majority pays nothing, or close to nothing.

[ombremq]

3 hours ago, Leyren said:

My point is that there is something between f2p and p2w. If you even consider lvl 50 and HM skills as p2w, then every game with an online shop would be p2w. And if you think about the words "pay" "to" "win"... do I win or have enormously higher chances to win just by having HM skills? Hell no, someone good in PvP would still wreck those people blindfolded.

I would consider criticising (especially destructive criticism) about every little advantage of payers as crying or whining, since some of those advantages are badly needed to keep the money flowing. So implying the p2w card on everything makes it seem that you would like to have exactly the same chances as a paying player...

 

Always this same argument i see everywhere, "if the we fight a blind, a fool, a Penguin, a coyote, we still can win because we know how to pvp and they dont blablabla"

i am speaking about comon human being with same average IQ  willing to improve in pvp etc etc i wont repeat how much time will it take for a F2p (new players) to deafeat a p2w player pvp focused, and i never played a game that propose those kind of jump, instant pvp and defeat fresh plebs for weeks but well this argument may be irrelevant since i didnt play a lot of mmorpg.

 

3 hours ago, Leyren said:

And how do you, in your "adult world", call someone thinking that everyone which does not conform to his or her opinion must be a younger person / teenager?

i dont understand? what do you mean? i was talking about him using the word " crying", dunno why your talking about opinion, i have no problem about people having different opinion that how debate work but i have a word for people who read.....ok i stop *giggle*

[Dad]

19 hours ago, XO said:

Oh...it would matter. Are there games that have subs that still rely on profit from games via cash shop? yes. Is it ever as bad as games that are "f2p"? No.

If only you were there.

[XO]

1 hour ago, Dad said:

If only you were there.

Oh I could say the same to you.