To all Whales out there and players in general.

[joenator]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

If player b can't be player a in arena it's cause he sucks. There is competitive play with equalized stat. And when it comes to pve all dungeons can be done with around 780-850 ap which has been made super easy to get to. You don't have to run with the whales you can make your own parties and learn mechanics to dungeons there is no real competitive play in pve I don't really see why people are whining the gem mailing costs are probably gonna get changed you can progress at your own pace I made over 1100g with some basic farming and selling silver frost premium stones so it's not super hard  and with regular silver frost stones being as high as they are 3 stone makers would make bank really no excuse for all the whining play the game and don't worry about what other people do with their money

There is competitive play in arena ? just what are you talking about ? when you talk about competitive you speak about fighting those clowns in arena and their alts army?where have you been those past few months...to begin with, there is no such thing for player "b" if he can't outplay those potatoe servers by paying a program to boost his ping, and mmorpg the good ones provide"Open World PVP" because "massive multiplayer blablabla"...and in B&S there is no open world pvp, you want to know why? That exactly what Kyrrua explained in a funny way, because too many players "B" know that they gonna be destroy by player A.

And if you think that a full party of players "B" can beat a single player A...well good luck.

And this old argument "just progress at your own pace" will never let you participate at battleground for example, or any kind of content that concern players vs players, gears involved.

[Kyrrua]

5 hours ago, Fesselspielchen said:

As long as you can catch up its not "P2W". 

 

 

Just replacing by the situation we are in then, doesn't change that much:

 

You take one battleground . with cash shop and 2 teams A and B

Team A is a full of whales

Team B is f2p or even mix whales/f2p

 

Game launches, the team A get full end gear since day 1, team B will of course have to grind pve.

Matchs starts, Team A destroys team B unable to do something as if they are afk.

 

Team A goes at top rankings with their gear and rank points are higher since they are higher. They are considered the best.

Team B loses every matches and grind slowly, rank points are low since they can't win a single match vs team A. They are onsidered the weakest.

 

This is Pay2win.

Bonus :

Team B catches up finally after Team A after 3-4or 5 months of time & intense farming (and RNG).

Announcement: New release of content + new powerful equipment.

Back to square 1.

 

Now if u clearly find that's still not p2w, I'm ready to cut my veins right away and run naked on the streets.

 

I wasn't at all talking about our arena pvp no problem with that. But a general pvp in a general world to define the general fact of p2win.

Hope you got it now ^^ sorry if I wasn't clear.

[ColorfulDispensary]

The update paths have been fine even for the casual player unless you only play like 1 hour a day then you really have no reason to complain 

What's really killing this game and making it loose people is the horrible support staff that only helps the whales and noone else they lost my money thats for sure 

[Untouchable]

Servers being crappy have nothing to do with whales. Battle ground ain't the only form of pvp and everyone gets rest in it whales included considering that only 2 people can form a party there are chances whales will end up on either team it's fair enough. And the term p2w means you don't have access to something payers do that give them a unfair advantage. Last I checked whales had to farm raven and craft the materials to enhance getting those weapons is only a matter of luck on dropsforging orbs and xanos disc drop pretty often so hitting stage ten easy af if you craft to make money you will be fine ingearing. 

[Zekken]

5 hours ago, An19194 said:

these people got real issues man i mean its fine if you are a millionaire wich most people are not. they willing to spend ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing real money on game than on life ! WTH

Yup, just as crazy as all the people spending money on video games, movies, and other forms of entertainment or hobbies....Just because you don't see the value in spending money on something doesn't mean it's stupid or crazy for someone else to do it; stop being so narrow minded.

 

On topic, I can agree that the direction the game is headed is getting a little out of hand if you look at it from endgame perspective.  As a casual player, I don't see an issue with gearing up for current content as nothing requires the level of gear that most people are talking about.

[ColorfulDispensary]

5 minutes ago, Zekken said:

Yup, just as crazy as all the people spending money on video games, movies, and other forms of entertainment or hobbies....Just because you don't see the value in spending money on something doesn't mean it's stupid or crazy for someone else to do it; stop being so narrow minded.

 

On topic, I can agree that the direction the game is headed is getting a little out of hand if you look at it from endgame perspective.  As a casual player, I don't see an issue with gearing up for current content as nothing requires the level of gear that most people are talking about.

Yup just going to the movies with drinks and snacks is dropping 50 bucks so i never understood why people complain about people spending money on games 

I spend on games just never will on this one ever again 

[Moonstruck]

Okay.

And by the way, just watched the stream (I know, I'm late), and there's no problem with Gunner tbh.

 

I can already farm most of the HM skills with my BM :D

[XO]

please, check out reddit and the video someone made regarding this and ncsoft...it's too good. Laughter is great medicine afterall lol.

[Nyaha]

13 hours ago, joenator said:

And if you think that a full party of players "B" can beat a single player A...well good luck.

Do you even pvp? Because it seems for me like a pve whiner tries to be smart by talking nonsense. 2 ppl that are good in pvp will be enough to destroy a whale - simply because they can keep him in cc 90% of the time. The whole party can destroy a single enemy with closed eyes spaming cc one after another. The reason the game doesn't make an accent on mass pvp is because the combat system was built around 1v1 battles and suits badly for mass pvp.

[Britt]

I have a 957ap wl and i feel like the game is in heavy favor of the whales. I play for 12+ hours and i swipe that plastic card. But i felt like i had no choice. If i didn't then i wasn't making progress as fast as i wanted to, to do end game content. Yes, i know we all have a choice but I think its pretty bad when a game can make me "feel" like i dont have one. And i have only felt like this with BnS.

 

Also I enjoy all aspecs of the game from arena to 6v6, to dungeons. I farm my dailies and do dc everyday. I also spent a week in Celestal Basin farming for my xanos disc for my wl and then again to farm all the mats for leg for gunner. I enjoy farming but can still understand that this is not possible for someone that only has 2-3 hours to do in just a few days this would take them weeks to months. There is a huge inbalance with 6v6. Not only do they need a better rating/matching system ( 2 differnt types of 6v6 one for gear and one for equal stats maybe?) there should be a way to get leg acc. Leg elements and jewels thur pvp. Paying 20g a pop when u make about 50-80g a day while also trying to pay for other upgrades at the same time is too much. Things like pets,pet stones, gem, and evolved stone dont drop in dungeons and if they do its very rare. How is one suppose to level these thing? Okay events for gems but thats usually for 1 if u have time sure u can get 3. Trove for gems,pets and evolved stone and leg elements and jewel, but thats rng and u gotta swipe that card. Pet stones at the mercy of the markets while ur trying to also use that 50-80g a day to buy some mats maybe upgread ur weapon, buy ur leg jewel, while also saving 100g min for ur next leg acc. if it ever drops in the next 50 runs before u have enough tokens to just buy it from dragon express.

 

Yeah i choose to swipe my card, but i can still understand where others are coming from. Plus the last 3 troves i bought keys and no outfit which is all i wanted. Yeah i get its the luck of the draw but still real salty bout it. I don't mind the grind, but it feels like its less what u can work hard to get and more about what u can buy to get ahead. Im just getting tired of it, have other things i want to spend my money on and the new souls and gem fee will make that easy for me.

[poisonedOcean]

I'm not yet a veteran in the game, my country aren't even officially supported by NCSoft (what makes me inellegible for a lot of cool stuff), but I like the game and I'd choose to spend some money in a subscription and some other things. No problem with that. I really dont mind spend MY money in my hobbies and games that I want to play... it's just buying for something that I like and seemed - at a given moment - a fair price.

But the model of "money gathering" used by NCSoft looks kinda unfair each day. Why? 

p2progress IS p2win.

RNG with cosmetics? ok. RNG with progression stuff? unfair

There's no limit to how much powerful one can become, wich means you'll NEVER feel rewarded for the money you've spent, at leat not for too long.

 

There are a lot of bussiness models  that are profitable for the publisher and enjoyable for the player out there. Let us look to the history of success of GrindGearGames and their Path Of Exile. Real f2p. Not a single cent required EVER, nevertheless they got themselves rich, spread their servers over the world and what was a buch of enthusiat idealistic players and coders are now a rich game publisher.

 

NCSoft needs to connect with community. Listen to us. I don't mean giving ears to whinners, I mean: stay in touch, close to the players. Particularly, those who don't mind spend their money with them.

 

I have some good time before my subscription ends, and if nothing changes till then, I won't spend any second whinning on foruns. I'll just move to another great game like FFXIV or ESO. But I reall,y really hope that some changes be made.

[hwalien]

6 hours ago, Nyaha said:

Do you even pvp? Because it seems for me like a pve whiner tries to be smart by talking nonsense. 2 ppl that are good in pvp will be enough to destroy a whale - simply because they can keep him in cc 90% of the time. The whole party can destroy a single enemy with closed eyes spaming cc one after another. The reason the game doesn't make an accent on mass pvp is because the combat system was built around 1v1 battles and suits badly for mass pvp.

very true but in usual 6v6 you don't always have that kind luxury.

its not like other 5 are afk . you have to still defend yourself while kill another.

And you almost always have one in your group that launching shit in air and doing their awesome air combo. 

[joenator]

9 hours ago, Nyaha said:

Do you even pvp? Because it seems for me like a pve whiner tries to be smart by talking nonsense. 2 ppl that are good in pvp will be enough to destroy a whale - simply because they can keep him in cc 90% of the time. The whole party can destroy a single enemy with closed eyes spaming cc one after another. The reason the game doesn't make an accent on mass pvp is because the combat system was built around 1v1 battles and suits badly for mass pvp.

So 2 skilled players with around 700-850AP can deal against a 1000+ Ap full raven whale by CCing him only ? ignoring the block/evade passive def the whale got, tab escape,the shield and buff he'll receive sometimes, his crit def that will make him tanky, and the dmg the whale can deal that result most of time by one mistake and he one shot us.

Ah sry my bad i didnt know that, nobody ever tryed to constant CC a whale, thanks for the tips i feel like i gonna destroy every whale now with my brainpower team thanks again *sarcasm*

[Nyaha]

18 hours ago, hwalien said:

very true but in usual 6v6 you don't always have that kind luxury.

its not like other 5 are afk . you have to still defend yourself while kill another.

And you almost always have one in your group that launching shit in air and doing their awesome air combo. 

I am not talking about practical 6v6. The claim was made that an entire party can not kill a single whale.

Also as a warlock i approve every single air combo in pvp :3

 

15 hours ago, joenator said:

So 2 skilled players with around 700-850AP can deal against a 1000+ Ap full raven whale by CCing him only ? ignoring the block/evade passive def the whale got, tab escape,the shield and buff he'll receive sometimes, his crit def that will make him tanky, and the dmg the whale can deal that result most of time by one mistake and he one shot us.

Ah sry my bad i didnt know that, nobody ever tryed to constant CC a whale, thanks for the tips i feel like i gonna destroy every whale now with my brainpower team thanks again *sarcasm*

Your excuses are irrelevant. Stop trying pvp with pve builds and mentality.

[Kyrrua]

Well, both have right and since you bring no argument you also know that you can't deny it...

 

[Katu Kat]

Quote

LOL people are thinking that the story gives you enough to go do high tier dungeon, is that a joke ?

Don't blame the game for that. Blame some of its players, they are the ones that set the ap requirements way too high(overkill) for dungeons that ask for a way lower requirement. Then some of those same players, in their absent mindedness mind u, turn around and cry saying the game is dying when they're the ones turning away/turning off people from playing/progressing further in the game.

Some of these people being turned away cant go further because they don't have the gear/ap F8 parties are asking for, to get the gear they have to grind the same dungeons they're being kicked out of because they're short 5 or 10 ap, even when they explicitly stress that they are 100% aware of the mechanics, shit, even when u don't even need to know the mech because the overall dmg in the party is high enough to melt bosses. Nobody is saying u shouldn't be able to run a dungeon as fast as possible but don't turn into a crybaby when u end up with little to no one to run dungeons with because you're being such a tryhard. There's a balance to everything. After the publisher does what they have to, the state of the game will still be in disarray because majority of its community are a turn off for continuing/new players. 

What ends up happening with some players who get kicked out  of parties or cant run dungeons because of stupid high F8 requirements is that they start investing a money into the game to get ahead easy and probably even skip some dungeons because they bought the mats/gear, nothing is wrong with that...its the end result that's the problem tho. The end result being that player that used to get kicked out of dungeons/runs because their gear was considered too low, now has a seat at the table and they get accepted into f8 parties etc...they later go on to lead parties themselves, doing the same thing that was done to them...which is requiring unreasonable ap/gear to run dungeons that ask for way less.

This process will be repeated, filtering out more and more players unwilling to spend the extra time/money to meet these F8 requirements, if you have enough common sense you know what the end result entails. That's not good for NC, nor is it good for any bns players. But...with all that being said, the beat goes on I guess.