Des vs BD

[TJXX]

1 hour ago, Titernia said:

No, the only one reason who does most of the top destroyers have Raven is they already have Raven stage 1 or whatever before the Rifwalk release, that's all. I personnaly do the 2 weapon but nobody want to spend a lot of money to get both. 
Are you too narrow minded to understand that ?

So you are saying that EVERY single top destroyer is not smart enough to use a riftwalk weapon because it costs sooooo much to make even though they would get more dps from it?  They spend hours and hours doing the exact same things every day trying to stay at the top, farming extra materials to stay at the top next update, buying things from the trove, but they are to lazy/poor to make a riftwalk weapon to replace their supposedly weaker raven weapon?

[Duriensbane]

(MSP shields)

 

BT shields with Raven 6

 

BT shields with Riftwalk 3

 

Lets see here, both sets are over 1.5mins, and riftwalk is behind.

I explained this in another post below this one....riftwalk will outdo raven in the FUTURE...first you need 8p VT shields (20% fury cdr) and the mystic badge (+2 sec duration) combo with riftwalk (30% fury cdr) which nets you around a 23 second fury CD, but currently Raven is king, it doesnt matter how long the fight is, the reduced fury will not outdo the raw damage that Raven currently gives you. So plz read other posts and look at the information before you start rambling about how something is better then the other.

 

 

 

[Bommus]

And yet BD is top 1 PvP atm BUT

Destro is 2 5 6

next is BD at 11.

 

Des not that bad after all

[SauronTheGreat]

On 6/24/2017 at 6:35 PM, Bommus said:

And yet BD is top 1 PvP atm BUT

Destro is 2 5 6

next is BD at 11.

 

Des not that bad after all

 If you watched the tournament last night, at least the end part : The destroyer outplayed the bladedancer so badly, but in the end it's still the blade dancer who wins. It sounds awkward for people who force themselves to believe there is balance, how come someone outplay and lose in the same time ... Just watch and see for yourself.

[Valiant]

1 hour ago, SauronTheGreat said:

 If you watched the tournament last night, at least the end part : The destroyer outplayed the bladedancer so badly, but in the end it's still the blade dancer who wins. It sounds awkward for people who force themselves to believe there is balance, how come someone outplay and lose in the same time ... Just watch and see for yourself.

No need to watch anything at that point.

in fact I came at the point where I don't argue with people that say Destroyer is op or it decent class because you can see many destroyer in the ladder.

 

All what I can say here and I will put it here, people can go and check the facts.
As you did say that yesterday tournament that destroyer did outplay BD but at the end BD got the upper hand cause the amount of immune that heal them and the stupid short CD 2 Iframe Q and E while destroyer pretty much hold back by their long CD C, Q, E and focus regain.

 

And last 3 years tournament no one did see destroyer on top 3 in any of this tournament, why ? Because at the end in pure match that doesn't depend on RNG player ,depend on 1v1 from trees you will find pro destroyer getting rekt by same pro level player from another class.
And something else you should notice that prove my idea that Destroyer is the weakest class among all classes in pvp and pve wise, just check last couple of months classes skill change.

It by all mean just a pure nerf to classes while pumping Destroyer and FM, special Destroyer pump from their new immune skill for pvp version Stage 1(V) and party immune Stage 2(V) , to their news change on their F priority, Ram (2) double stun on same skill just so they can go double stun at first in pve like another class, their SS changed from 12 second CD to 8 CD, Q (Stage 3) change.

 In fact the change in skill tree in general moving it from old tier shape to stages shape did benefit Destroyer the most among all classes, cause they got finally to access to all of their skills without lacking in skill point, where before destroyer couldn't get their unconscious  on their C (hurl) cause no skill point, where they couldn't get the full power of SS cause lacking of skill point.

 

Not to mention other changes and more buffs that destroyer going to get in next months while other classes get nerfed, Didn't you see how they rekt wl damage ? Warlock going to get more nerfs in future just mark my words.

 

In the end I don't need anyone from NA/EU crying about Destroyer being op because some ladder that match you against RNG player, I want to see the facts like tournament , like the pve output , like other proofs that the game it self prove by making this classes balance change cause it clearly point out that game it self know that class is op and that class is not.

[FrozenB]

From what I know in arena, destroyer players are either Pro or Bad. There are nothing in between.

 

Pro = 100-0 combo in seconds without tab escape and can have infinite iframe = they know what they are doing and have good skill rotation.

Bad = no idea what they are doing and just rely on spin, spin and spin and hope the enemies will get into parry stunned by their spin.

[SauronTheGreat]

58 minutes ago, FrozenB said:

From what I know in arena, destroyer players are either Pro or Bad. There are nothing in between.

 

Pro = 100-0 combo in seconds without tab escape and can have infinite iframe = they know what they are doing and have good skill rotation.

Bad = no idea what they are doing and just rely on spin, spin and spin and hope the enemies will get into parry stunned by their spin.

 Then the guy from yesterday's tournament and many other top destroyers we see in tournaments are not eligible to fit your '' pro '' definition.

[FrozenB]

25 minutes ago, SauronTheGreat said:

 Then the guy from yesterday's tournament and many other top destroyers we see in tournaments are not eligible to fit your '' pro '' definition.

They are still Pro because they have good skills rotation. If they are the bad ones, they would have lost the match in less than 10 seconds. 

 

Pro players don't mean that they have 100% win percentage. Sometimes you need to have a good day to win it. It is more like guessing game on what the enemy is going to do in the next second. Like are they gonna charge into me, iframe and back off into defense mode, iframe and full attack mode, etc. You guess it wrong or you press the skills 0.1 seconds late, then you would get into trouble. That's why ping is important in pvp, less than 1 second differences can turn the table around.

[Valiant]

44 minutes ago, SauronTheGreat said:

 Then the guy from yesterday's tournament and many other top destroyers we see in tournaments are not eligible to fit your '' pro '' definition.

 

15 minutes ago, FrozenB said:

They are still Pro because they have good skills rotation. If they are the bad ones, they would have lost the match in less than 10 seconds. 

 

Pro players don't mean that they have 100% win percentage. Sometimes you need to have a good day to win it. It is more like guessing game on what the enemy is going to do in the next second. Like are they gonna charge into me, iframe and back off into defense mode, iframe and full attack mode, etc. You guess it wrong or you press the skills 0.1 seconds late, then you would get into trouble. That's why ping is important in pvp, less than 1 second differences can turn the table around.

Don't forget their other factors that affect, Like lag and delay in pvp could make you lose a game even if you are pro.

Other factor if you miss your escape by miss click, that happen to many pro people before.

Other factor you miss one tech chase and you couldn't make a good combo. 

[SauronTheGreat]

1 hour ago, FrozenB said:

They are still Pro because they have good skills rotation. If they are the bad ones, they would have lost the match in less than 10 seconds. 

 

Pro players don't mean that they have 100% win percentage. Sometimes you need to have a good day to win it. It is more like guessing game on what the enemy is going to do in the next second. Like are they gonna charge into me, iframe and back off into defense mode, iframe and full attack mode, etc. You guess it wrong or you press the skills 0.1 seconds late, then you would get into trouble. That's why ping is important in pvp, less than 1 second differences can turn the table around.

You either misunderstood or trying to evade. You said there is no gray. It's either black or white. The '' pro '' definition you 've made ... i 've never seen any '' pro '' destroyer doing those stuff on serious platforms, like tournaments. 100-0 ? No ... infinite iframe ? No ... then they don't know what they are doing or they don't have good skill rotation. In fact, i 've seen many serving as a good test subject for other classes to perform those '' pro '' actions. If they are to put forward that many excuses you 've listed, then they already fall into the '' gray '' category you excluded. Because, every excuse you 've listed, does happen to any other class. If their win-rate is so low against other classes, especially blade dancers, then there are either balance issues or no destroyer fitting your '' pro '' definition ... or ... only destroyer players can have a bad day.

[Valiant]

1 hour ago, SauronTheGreat said:

You either misunderstood or trying to evade. You said there is no gray. It's either black or white. The '' pro '' definition you 've made ... i 've never seen any '' pro '' destroyer doing those stuff on serious platforms, like tournaments. 100-0 ? No ... infinite iframe ? No ... then they don't know what they are doing or they don't have good skill rotation. In fact, i 've seen many serving as a good test subject for other classes to perform those '' pro '' actions. If they are to put forward that many excuses you 've listed, then they already fall into the '' gray '' category you excluded. Because, every excuse you 've listed, does happen to any other class. If their win-rate is so low against other classes, especially blade dancers, then there are either balance issues or no destroyer fitting your '' pro '' definition ... or ... only destroyer players can have a bad day.

You are kinda right at that part, Destroyer doesn't fit his vision.

Cause by all means destroyer can't spam Iframe like most classes and can't just 100-0 easily since they put down their fury for the second escape.

While other classes can spam Iframe and 100-0, But anyway that why I said I won't argue no more with anyone cause facts talk not just saying that or that.

[FrozenB]

2 hours ago, SauronTheGreat said:

You either misunderstood or trying to evade. You said there is no gray. It's either black or white. The '' pro '' definition you 've made ... i 've never seen any '' pro '' destroyer doing those stuff on serious platforms, like tournaments. 100-0 ? No ... infinite iframe ? No ... then they don't know what they are doing or they don't have good skill rotation. In fact, i 've seen many serving as a good test subject for other classes to perform those '' pro '' actions. If they are to put forward that many excuses you 've listed, then they already fall into the '' gray '' category you excluded. Because, every excuse you 've listed, does happen to any other class. If their win-rate is so low against other classes, especially blade dancers, then there are either balance issues or no destroyer fitting your '' pro '' definition ... or ... only destroyer players can have a bad day.

Can you name an online game that has so called "balance" classes? The only "balance" class would be PVP against your own same class. 

[Teggie]

Now im just confused, So Des > BD  or BD > DES. are BD useless in PvE ??? (not even worth writing in BD forum nobody answer anything)

[TJXX]

8 minutes ago, Teggie said:

Now im just confused, So Des > BD  or BD > DES. are BD useless in PvE ??? (not even worth writing in BD forum nobody answer anything)

Every class has enough damage in this game to do anything.  They're all WAY over tuned in pve for what you actually need.  Destroyer has more aoe dps BD has more single target dps.

[SauronTheGreat]

15 hours ago, FrozenB said:

Can you name an online game that has so called "balance" classes? The only "balance" class would be PVP against your own same class. 

 That doesn't mean we should suck it up and move on. Also it's a bit different here. Especially for des and bd which are similar classes. One being so prominently overpowered compared to other one, deserves rants like this.

[hwalien]

I personally think BD and Des are not that similar. its just spin and grab are just too noticeable but other than those 2 skills they have completely different play style. i don't know... i might be wrong but maybe were just spinning too much.

[Valiant]

8 minutes ago, hwalien said:

I personally think BD and Des are not that similar. its just spin and grab are just too noticeable but other than those 2 skills they have completely different play style. i don't know... i might be wrong but maybe were just spinning too much.

Original BD was the hyper of BM and Destroyer ,They got spin and grab from Destroyer and lighting element from BM.

Like SF which is hyper of FM and KFM,

 

That why it very similar  

[TJXX]

The similarities end with grab/spin, if you play either class like the other you're going to be terrible on both.

[SauronTheGreat]

5 minutes ago, TJXX said:

The similarities end with grab/spin, if you play either class like the other you're going to be terrible on both.

 You are talking about two characteristic skills of destroyer. Skills that make up a destroyer, other than a big axe. Two skills that come in mind when someone says '' destroyer '' or '' blade dancer ''. That spoiled class is considered to be a mutant mix of destroyer and blade master ... why do you think no blade master rants about it ? Because a blade master is still a better blade master than them. But, they are clearly better destroyers than a destroyer.

[Duriensbane]

No, a Destroyer is a Destroyer, a Blade Dancer is a Blade Dancer, we have 2 common skills, thats it. As i said in another topic, if you dont like the class then dont play it. Comming around starting arguments when we are honestly only trying to provide constructive information is pointless. It is quite clear you do not like the Destroyer class, ok then. Plz move on.

[SauronTheGreat]

23 minutes ago, Duriensbane said:

No, a Destroyer is a Destroyer, a Blade Dancer is a Blade Dancer, we have 2 common skills, thats it. As i said in another topic, if you dont like the class then dont play it. Comming around starting arguments when we are honestly only trying to provide constructive information is pointless. It is quite clear you do not like the Destroyer class, ok then. Plz move on.

 Your post is completely pointless, in a topic where a player asks for comparison of these 2 classes. Then let's tell people to not ask for comparison or advice. Since these are totally different classes, only have two skills in common, nothing at all (!). Lets give summoners better versions of block and soulburn and when someone asks for which one, simply tell him/her that one is a summoner the other is a warlock, to be constructive. Get out a here ... My previous post is also still a reply to that non-sense since you added nothing at all, ultra helpful constructive boy.

[Duriensbane]

Shouldnt make personal attacks on the fourms, thats getting off topic. And ontop of that you are compairing apples to oranges. And looking back at your last posts, they are angry retorts to other posts, nothing constructive. 

 

IF you want to make a choice between the 2, play through the story on both. Pick the one you liked. Asking for opinions is like asking someone to squeeze the trigger on a loaded gun. 

[hwalien]

dear lord... what have I done...

[SauronTheGreat]

4 hours ago, Duriensbane said:

Shouldnt make personal attacks on the fourms, thats getting off topic. And ontop of that you are compairing apples to oranges. And looking back at your last posts, they are angry retorts to other posts, nothing constructive. 

 

IF you want to make a choice between the 2, play through the story on both. Pick the one you liked. Asking for opinions is like asking someone to squeeze the trigger on a loaded gun. 

 Now now, by reading through the whole topic where everyone speaks about destroyer and blade dancer, you come out of nowhere spreading hate about me, how pissed off you are at me because i am comparing destroyer to blade dancer in a topic where the op asks for it. You definitely don't have anything to say about topic and spam the same post at every thread about destroyer '' if you don't like it, don't play '', so constructive ... i don't think anyone asks for your world-shaking suggestion which you spam literally everywhere around the forum. Do everyone a favor and keep away from class sub-forums, because here people mostly ask for comparison, make comparisons to clarify things, which pisses you off apparently.

[Duriensbane]

Twice I have said that....simply because the ones that are making the arguments never post anything other then comments....no parses...no screens...nothing. As I said when comparing des to bd it is the same as apples to oranges. Having 2 abilities that function the same does not make them the same class. 

BD pve damage is slightly higher but not by an amazing amount. Certainly not 1.5x what a Des can put out as you claim. As for pvp a bd friend of mine, who btw is a top 30 all areas, says that des is stronger. Which does go against what I had said but I do more pve then anything. Thus if you have a stable connection and like pvp des would be the best choice, if pave is your main the go bd.....just remember that things change often and only those that prowl the kr forums really know what is going on.