hwalien

30m ice guard

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hwalien   

I always felt that KFM needed something against sin but isn't this little too much? not only sins but it seems like everyone I pvped against last night was having WTF moment when I used Ice guard on them.

Edited by hwalien

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Shuchin   

It's a huge boost, it completely reverses all the troubles I had with openers in the past as well. Together with the lowered cooldown, it's simply amazing. In 6v6 as well.

 

Almost as big as the fire BM transformation in my view. Though people might not pay attention at first because it's not raw damage that changed. :P

 

What's up with the rumors that ice guard will be nerfed again? There are some skill rebalancings announced in KR for June 28th... -_-'

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Not sure why they wanna nerf it again, agreed that this change is much needed. Ok maybe 30m is too much, at least keep it at 16m? *prays hard*

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N3ro   

You guys also got a 4x10m skill with 0 second cooldown that stuns 2 second on stealthed enemies. And the sin nerfs. Tab swap duration decrease, web cd, no more stun on ground counter and we can no longer x dagger into ice guard (that was pretty broken with x dagger piercing defence though).

Not 100% sure how the matchup will turn out as im not used to the sin chances yet (and i can tell most sins are not otherwise i would not make it into top 5 with a laughable rating). But the matchup got a lot more favoreable for kfm. Getting your tab escape tech chased by a free stun and you cant even do anything about it if they time it right other than... well dont tab escape and tank lots of damage and then tab like your knockups or something is pretty retarded.

Also im playing lighting against a lot of classes now as i kinda feel like i need c stun for ground games anyways and 1 dash at 0m can also help when you dont have anything up to chase ground counter. And i also never really played lighting all that much so another 'new' thing. Kfm is probably one of the only classes where i think dark build is still doing just fine.

Edited by N3ro

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What KFM needs is a better opener skill..

 

Our 30m ice guard currently equalizes the opener by forcing everyone into combat. But it'll be nerfed to 16m later, and our openers will still be terrible, giving us unequal footing against every other class.

 

As for the sin matchup, you can only techchase their tab escape if you iframe the blind and muddied effect. Even then, like all tab escapes, sins have a .5s window to pre-emptively iframe a tech chase.

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N3ro   
On 6/24/2017 at 11:12 PM, Hire De Lune said:

What KFM needs is a better opener skill..

 

Our 30m ice guard currently equalizes the opener by forcing everyone into combat. But it'll be nerfed to 16m later, and our openers will still be terrible, giving us unequal footing against every other class.

 

As for the sin matchup, you can only techchase their tab escape if you iframe the blind and muddied effect. Even then, like all tab escapes, sins have a .5s window to pre-emptively iframe a tech chase.

Like its hard to resist sins tab. Its actually the only tab escape in the game than is legit reactable for some people + you resist it with charges if youre possitioned right. Though most of the time against kfms you have bearly any time to hit your tab anyways as their either using q/e or your in the air, or they are out of range. If they get hit by it they are mostly either bad, or where too greedy. And im pretty sure the window is smaller than 0.5 sek for sins, otherwise it would not happen that i spam iframes after tabbing and get hit anyways, or it might be the same resist time technically, but we first have to do the rolling thing before we can move. Like really the more you play sin and have tried some other classes the more you wish youd just have a in-place-daze-tab just like everyone else does, especially now that we sometimes run out of ccs if we play c iframe an ACTUAL cc on our tab would be helpful at times.

Edited by N3ro

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Shuchin   

KFM actually have very good openers now, much more choice than before:

 

Flurry C - cannot be Q/E, near instantaneous daze
Guiding Fist RMB - cannot be Q/E, near instantaneous and can be anicancelled e.g. into leg sweep
Counter 1 into Avenging Fist RMB - From counter to iframe gap closer
SS into Tiger's Pounce against deflect spin
Flying Slam stays a bad opener but with this many new choices you can sometimes surprise them

 

Even if they shorten ice guard to 16m, we could still SS into range I guess.

 

I guess the most overpowered thing is the effect on 6v6. 30m range means four times the area compared to 16m. You can basically freeze the whole central area in Beluga. Not that KFM does not deserve a Beluga buff, with all those fast running stealthers. :P


As for the Gale Fist vs assassin, my feeling is it is very valuable but 0 cooldown is irrelevant as it costs 3 focus. Use it twice and you are often already out of focus in gear balanced arena. You have to actually aim to use it effectively, it's suicidal to spam it.

 

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@Shuchin Those are not new openers, all along these are the points we would put to in the old skill tree. But all along KFM are quite tough during opening. Because good opening depends on who can stay in air longer. Flurry, Guiding Fist, Avenging Fist can't be used when opponent is in the air.

 

Only Tiger Pounce & Leg Sweep can be used. Leg Sweep requires you to be at the same elevation as the opponent to hit, which is almost impossible so actually can only use tiger pounce. But that is too obvious since need to SS first.

 

The new ice guard and gale fist is great, but ice guard is a good move to hold on to instead of waste it at the opening. And gale fist is painful with 3 focus but still better than using ice guard just to get them out.

 

In the end, the only way is to avoid the opponent opening first, then we can talk about starting our opening.

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N3ro   

Sin is deffinitely still favored. Now im pretty used to light buil (lul) and the new changes. Im not even sure if the matchup got any harder for me at all. It feels like the nerfs + kfm buffs pretty much get midigated by the switch from dark to light alone. 1 dash at 0m range is even better than i gave it credit for (so good in fact that its the main reason to run light for me and i bearly use any other light skills ever). Lmb in stealth is annoying at first, but its actually overall probably better as you dont get punished for trying to stun des/bds especially after they hit into your q or woodblock anymore and it gives you another way to apply x, timebomb and put down a mine and stuff for groundgaming, witch tab swap alone does no longer allow you to do (you cant 3 stun on tab swaps either). C stun is also pretty broken. Its just sort of needed now to sucessfully combo at times now especially in light build with 30s on our 4 stun. But those skills also give you plenty of new ways to get additional openings so... yeah. Regardless of buffs and nerfs it feels like i got buffed as i play the broken build now...

Edited by N3ro

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