Twisted Mirror is too expensive

[Cesura]

I'm actually okay with the Ncoin cost of it, though it's a little steep it's still mainly a convenience thing but the 1,200 gold cost of actually using it is a total slap to the face. That is WAY too much.

 

Mainly because of the fact that that's almost as much gold as simply leveling a new ivorymoon weapon from scratch and simply making the opposite weapon if I also take the 800 ncoin into account. 

The upgrade costs of the mirror should be removed frankly, if it's going to be a cash shop item, but if not, it should at least be scaled down since the weapon upgrade cost was reduced. 

 

I have a stage 12 baleful weapon and realized I'd rather have riftwalk than dawnforged, But using a mirror first to do so is insanely expensive, especially if I eventually get raven and the diference becomes moot anyways. 

So basically what I'm saying is, if the gold fee for Twisted Mirrors was more reasonable NCSoft would have $10 more of my money then they currently have. 


 

[Shinobi X]

I agree with you, the price is way too high, the price increases as the weapon's level increase at stage 7 it cost 450g to switch the weapon to its counterpart, it doesnt make sense to pay in ncoins just to yet again pay more money to finally do what you wanted to do.

 

    Not even a warning before you buy the damn thing with ncoins about the extra cost to actually use the item, seems to me you are intentionally selling things that do not actually work..... something to consider regarding a few rules and regulations in RL.

[Divine Retribution]

The cost of switching legendary weapon using twisted mirror depends on your current weapon stage so yeah 1.2k gold for stage 12. By removing the cost, the game will be flooded with gold which will be bad for economy and cause currency exchange dropping near 1:1 ratio sooner than expected. That's why they didnt want to give higher gold reward from daily purple dungeons like the quests in KR or TW while introducing gold sinking method to prevent inflation by adding additional costs into the system such as mailing fee, marketplace taxes, dragon express item "profane awakened stone" that costs 3k gold to upgrade bt accesories and many more.

 

 

[LiriC]

49 minutes ago, Divine Retribution said:

The cost of switching legendary weapon using twisted mirror depends on your current weapon stage so yeah 1.2k gold for stage 12. By removing the cost, the game will be flooded with gold which will be bad for economy and cause currency exchange dropping near 1:1 ratio sooner than expected. That's why they didnt want to give higher gold reward from daily purple dungeons like the quests in KR or TW while introducing gold sinking method to prevent inflation by adding additional costs into the system such as mailing fee, marketplace taxes, dragon express item "profane awakened stone" that costs 3k gold to upgrade bt accesories and many more.

 

 

Oh please, that's just lame logic right there, economy and inflation, this is getting older then it should be allowed... can we stop with the economy and inflation ? The game rules do not apply to real life rules.

 

The change on the weapon would do nothing to the market, absolute nothing, people should have the freedom to change the baleful if they want and after they go higher then leave it be.

Flooded with gold, you think people switch like it's a common thing ? Most want to go to Raven as fast as possible and then just end game, the end, plus there are people that are holding on to the gold for the future updates that are yet to come since BNS is pushing us so hard that you don't even get the chance to enjoy end game content for us non wales.

This flood that you speak of dose not apply here since you didn't even take in to account what's actually used on the market, people that want to go in pvp know it from the start and the ones that pick later on either go in raven and it's a good enough choice anyway.. even if Raven is hard to get as it is.

 

Talking about your flood is like getting the essence for 1gold, dose that not apply to your logic ? Would that not cause the flood ? What.. the essence goes for 2500g , but it's not like you could get it for 1 - 500g .

 

let's stop the logic with inflation and ec if we don't actually grasp the concept and it's REAL effects.... 

They expected that the trove would drop the market that it would give us problems on the market .. so.. tell me.. what happened ? Oh .. wait.. Nothing.. the only thing that did drop was what.. the Silverfrost keys.. that you can get at 80 / 90g ...but this WAS there original price .. in fact it was even cheaper .. it was 30-40-50 gold back in the day.. it's peak was 160g ..

 

Let's stop...

[Divine Retribution]

On 9/6/2017 at 0:46 PM, LiriC said:

Oh please, that's just lame logic right there, economy and inflation, this is getting older then it should be allowed... can we stop with the economy and inflation ? The game rules do not apply to real life rules.

 

The change on the weapon would do nothing to the market, absolute nothing, people should have the freedom to change the baleful if they want and after they go higher then leave it be.

Flooded with gold, you think people switch like it's a common thing ? Most want to go to Raven as fast as possible and then just end game, the end, plus there are people that are holding on to the gold for the future updates that are yet to come since BNS is pushing us so hard that you don't even get the chance to enjoy end game content for us non wales.

This flood that you speak of dose not apply here since you didn't even take in to account what's actually used on the market, people that want to go in pvp know it from the start and the ones that pick later on either go in raven and it's a good enough choice anyway.. even if Raven is hard to get as it is.

 

Talking about your flood is like getting the essence for 1gold, dose that not apply to your logic ? Would that not cause the flood ? What.. the essence goes for 2500g , but it's not like you could get it for 1 - 500g .

 

let's stop the logic with inflation and ec if we don't actually grasp the concept and it's REAL effects.... 

They expected that the trove would drop the market that it would give us problems on the market .. so.. tell me.. what happened ? Oh .. wait.. Nothing.. the only thing that did drop was what.. the Silverfrost keys.. that you can get at 80 / 90g ...but this WAS there original price .. in fact it was even cheaper .. it was 30-40-50 gold back in the day.. it's peak was 160g ..

 

Let's stop...

If the twisted mirror didnt cost tons of gold to switch, P2W players wont buy gold from F9. By introducing this additional costs, you are forced to spend Ncoins to buy the mirror and the in-game gold. Here's an illustration how it works:

 

Mr Bean is a P2W coz he got no time to farm the in-game gold and he enjoys to pvp a lot. He wannna switch from seraph stage 12 to baleful so he bought a mirror which costs him almost 1k ncoins or $10 (I forget the exact number). He later noticed that he needed 1.2k gold cost to switch, so he had to spend another 4.8k ncoins or around $50 (if the currency exchange rate is 1:4).

 

Conclusion:

A) If the additional cost is removed, he only needs to spend $10 for the mirror to switch

B) If the additional cost is implemented, he needs $60 to switch his legendary weapon

As a smart business owner which option will you choose to increase your income?

P.S Of course the above scenario can only work to whales who never farm gold from daily quests like most free players.

[Untouchable]

Why would it take you to stage 10-12 to figure out that the path you chose wasn't the one you wanted <_< shet was dirt cheap at stage 3-5

[Othinus]

On 11/6/2017 at 4:19 AM, Divine Retribution said:

If the twisted mirror didnt cost tons of gold to switch, P2W players wont buy gold from F9. By introducing this additional costs, you are forced to spend Ncoins to buy the mirror and the in-game gold. Here's an illustration how it works:

 

Mr Bean is a P2W coz he got no time to farm the in-game gold and he enjoys to pvp a lot. He wannna switch from seraph stage 12 to baleful so he bought a mirror which costs him almost 1k ncoins or $10 (I forget the exact number). He later noticed that he needed 1.2k gold cost to switch, so he had to spend another 4.8k ncoins or around $50 (if the currency exchange rate is 1:4).

 

Conclusion:

A) If the additional cost is removed, he only needs to spend $10 for the mirror to switch

B) If the additional cost is implemented, he needs $60 to switch his legendary weapon

As a smart business owner which option will you choose to increase your income?

P.S Of course the above scenario can only work to whales who never farm gold from daily quests like most free players.

And that my friend, is bs! The whales you speak of is no where to find. Since most of them have enough gold to upgrade Raven, why they have to bother to change the weapon. 

And as I can see, some "FMs" go for seraph and already reached stage 4-6 with full of pinacle, those are the people who need to change their weapons. But with the bs price right now, it's impossible. 

[ClairFarron]

This is what you get for not doing research on your class.  I see tons of stupid wl running around with baeful razor. There is NO reason a wl should upgrade to baeful. 

[Cesura]

23 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Why would it take you to stage 10-12 to figure out that the path you chose wasn't the one you wanted <_< shet was dirt cheap at stage 3-5

Actually, at the lower stages, like 1-6 (Before evolved stones come into play) It's STILL really cheap to just make a new ivorymoon from scratch and go down the other path with it, this having both weapons. Twisted mirror was worth it when we would have had to level a Hongmoon weapon from the beginning and spend 4-5 times as much gold and mats in the original weapon path. So I think it's cost should be nerfed in line with the current weapon path, that's all. Like 50% maybe? 

1 hour ago, ClairFarron said:

This is what you get for not doing research on your class.  I see tons of stupid wl running around with baeful razor. There is NO reason a wl should upgrade to baeful. 

There's two WL elements, you know.

Seraph was, and still is, trash for shadow/helix build. 

True Ivorymoon/Scorpio out DPSes Seraph all the way up until like stage 10+ (On shadow build) Maybe a little earlier on the green shadow badge though. 
 

And a PvE wl isn't going to be getting procs and resets off of seraph because if they're getting hit that much, they're dead. That said, yes it's basically a requirement for ice build since it has a crippling dependence on siphon uptime. Ice + Baleful is cringeworthy. Shadow + Serpah is cringeworthy. 

 

Most of us got our weapons, far, far before void and raven weapon paths were announced for our region.

The key thing is, unlike Seraph/Baleful, Dawn/Rift BOTH get their procs/resets the same way. Now rift is better on both WL builds with the right soul badges. But even if we knew that when the first legendary path launched, would it have been worth running with a crippled build for half a year just to be able to finally come out ahead now? Not really. 

Seraph still sucks on shadow so a helix main isn't really going to get a return on investment on going the seraph path until they get to rift. I don't know all the classes that well, but there are probably more class/element combos that get a bad deal out of seraph but could benefit from Rift weapons. 

 

So really what I want is a more viable way to go from bale to rift. The UI and description for the mirror gives no indication that that switch is possible once you've already evolved to a void weapon. So as far as I know in order to do so you have to use the mirror first.  And since that's already 'settling' for the inferior weapon path to raven, it's pretty hard to justify spending more on it than it would have cost to just go raven in the first place.   

 

 

On 6/11/2017 at 4:19 AM, Divine Retribution said:

 

 

Conclusion:

A) If the additional cost is removed, he only needs to spend $10 for the mirror to switch

B) If the additional cost is implemented, he needs $60 to switch his legendary weapon

As a smart business owner which option will you choose to increase your income?

P.S Of course the above scenario can only work to whales who never farm gold from daily quests like most free players.

Charging more is not always the smart business decision. If I open a lemonade stand and sell $80 lemonades I'm not going to make more money than a $2 per lemonade stand. 

It already costs a mirror to go from void to raven. So I was about ready to chuck $20 into a pit for two mirrors to have a rift weapon for a month or so and then swap over to raven. $80 to end up in the same place has passed my 'nope, not willing to waste that much money' point. 

 

And a smart business owner usually appreciates customer feedback. Just offering mine.

 

Also I think a whale is just gonna HM swipe the mats for Raven though, including paying for a BT carry, so I'm not really seeing too many of them blowing the currency exchange fee just to swap stage 10+ bale/seraph weapons back and forth anymore now. 

 

 

Using a mirror to swap between bale and seraph is just a really poor use of resources with weapons this cheap and everything being funneled towards Raven in the end anyways. I can't see how anyone would be able to justify the cost as it is currently. 

[ClairFarron]

15 minutes ago, Cesura said:

Actually, at the lower stages, like 1-6 (Before evolved stones come into play) It's STILL really cheap to just make a new ivorymoon from scratch and go down the other path with it, this having both weapons. Twisted mirror was worth it when we would have had to level a Hongmoon weapon from the beginning and spend 4-5 times as much gold and mats in the original weapon path. So I think it's cost should be nerfed in line with the current weapon path, that's all. Like 50% maybe? 

There's two WL elements, you know.

Seraph was, and still is, trash for shadow/helix build. 

True Ivorymoon/Scorpio out DPSes Seraph all the way up until like stage 10+ (On shadow build) Maybe a little earlier on the green shadow badge though. 
 

And a PvE wl isn't going to be getting procs and resets off of seraph because if they're getting hit that much, they're dead. That said, yes it's basically a requirement for ice build since it has a crippling dependence on siphon uptime. Ice + Baleful is cringeworthy. Shadow + Serpah is cringeworthy. 

 

Most of us got our weapons, far, far before void and raven weapon paths were announced for our region.

The key thing is, unlike Seraph/Baleful, Dawn/Rift BOTH get their procs/resets the same way. Now rift is better on both WL builds with the right soul badges. But even if we knew that when the first legendary path launched, would it have been worth running with a crippled build for half a year just to be able to finally come out ahead now? Not really. 

Seraph still sucks on shadow so a helix main isn't really going to get a return on investment on going the seraph path until they get to rift. I don't know all the classes that well, but there are probably more class/element combos that get a bad deal out of seraph but could benefit from Rift weapons. 

 

So really what I want is a more viable way to go from bale to rift. The UI and description for the mirror gives no indication that that switch is possible once you've already evolved to a void weapon. So as far as I know in order to do so you have to use the mirror first.  And since that's already 'settling' for the inferior weapon path to raven, it's pretty hard to justify spending more on it than it would have cost to just go raven in the first place.   

 

 

Charging more is not always the smart business decision. If I open a lemonade stand and sell $80 lemonades I'm not going to make more money than a $2 per lemonade stand. 

It already costs a mirror to go from void to raven. So I was about ready to chuck $20 into a pit for two mirrors to have a rift weapon for a month or so and then swap over to raven. $80 to end up in the same place has passed my 'nope, not willing to waste that much money' point. 

 

And a smart business owner usually appreciates customer feedback. Just offering mine.

 

Also I think a whale is just gonna HM swipe the mats for Raven though, including paying for a BT carry, so I'm not really seeing too many of them blowing the currency exchange fee just to swap stage 10+ bale/seraph weapons back and forth anymore now. 

 

 

Using a mirror to swap between bale and seraph is just a really poor use of resources with weapons this cheap and everything being funneled towards Raven in the end anyways. I can't see how anyone would be able to justify the cost as it is currently. 

Leach CD is better for both build ice and shadow. Seraph gets better after stage 4. Resets are not really important for wl.

[Alysha Hawkeye]

Twisted Mirror is just one of many methods for NCWest to use as a gold sink.

 

It costs you over 1,000 gold to change your weapon? Cool for them, cuz it means they have made 1,000 gold disappeared from the market, hence contributing to reduce gold inflation. The cost will also get be cheaper with higher premiumship rank, thus promote the purchase of premiumship. 

[LiriC]

I'm curious about one thing.

You all talk about gold inflation if they lower the cost, but were is your real data for this ?

You would need the population of the servers, witch you will not get, you will need the amount of people that can even reach 1000 gold, witch you wont get, you will need to do a questions of the entire population that can and can't change and explain to tell what changing means and who would pay and who would not and who would be happy with the choice they made, witch you wont get.

Also you would need the number of people that DID spend 1000 gold for the change.

 

And I would love to know that a guy that wants to change with PINACLE jewels HAS 1000 gold to just throw it away like that.

 

Do you guys even stop and think a little ? Do the math ?  Ofc not... the only people that would do that change ? I think you are better of to just do another weapon from scratch then your guys faulty logic... a guy that would change I'm guessing he made a mistake at low lvl ( but he would not have the gold , now would he ) or a full whale that wants a new thing, but a whale is already at raven... so.. why ? better of making it from nothing.

[Laosduude]