raiklock

Someone posted this on reddit, about XML... And I think the guy has a point.

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Kogaruh   
15 minutes ago, Makabe said:

I think this all discution is stupid becouse:

players that said XML edition is OK said it is ok onyly if some group of players can do it(and that isnt fair, if some grou can do, and some cant do on server)

players that said XML edition isnt OK said it is cheat, and it is hight ping players foult for their ping.

 

I know all players wanna have almost 0ms, all players wanna have 120fps all time, and max graphic settiongs, but hey we cant have all we wanna.

Just stop for a moment and think: i wrote in my previous post if we said someone can cheat, then all can cheat. I know hight ping players wanna edit XML to have better gameplay, but if we go that way all players with low ping can say "I wanna have 0ping" or "I wanna have 0 CD skill" or "I wann infinity hp", you know what i mean? Cheat is cheat it isnt matter what cheat you use it allways be cheat, and if we say "cheat are legal" it wont be for one group but for all if we wanna be fair.

Titernia I dont want to offend you but it wikipedia isnt rly good source for this discution, becouse it is created by people like me,you, and other players, you can write there whatever you want.

From perspectiove of WoW from what i know Wow havd ginat exodus(I dont play it, but my friend told me).

Playing with KR,CH, and other regions? You wanna see, me too, becouse it will be tragic, when ppl cant use editet XML, hack, cheats, macro and other shits and must fight fair with top players that fight fair.(I dont wanna offend anyone).

they edit the xml in the first place and use different launcher because ncsoft does a terrible job.
Is xml editing cheating? could be, depends what the player wants to modify.
is using GCD cheating? Nope. Read my previous post.

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Talinoth   
13 minutes ago, Makabe said:

I think this all discution is stupid becouse:

players that said XML edition is OK said it is ok onyly if some group of players can do it(and that isnt fair, if some grou can do, and some cant do on server)

players that said XML edition isnt OK said it is cheat, and it is hight ping players foult for their ping.

 

I know all players wanna have almost 0ms, all players wanna have 120fps all time, and max graphic settiongs, but hey we cant have all we wanna.

Just stop for a moment and think: i wrote in my previous post if we said someone can cheat, then all can cheat. I know hight ping players wanna edit XML to have better gameplay, but if we go that way all players with low ping can say "I wanna have 0ping" or "I wanna have 0 CD skill" or "I wann infinity hp", you know what i mean? Cheat is cheat it isnt matter what cheat you use it allways be cheat, and if we say "cheat are legal" it wont be for one group but for all if we wanna be fair.

Titernia I dont want to offend you but it wikipedia isnt rly good source for this discution, becouse it is created by people like me,you, and other players, you can write there whatever you want.

From perspectiove of WoW from what i know Wow havd ginat exodus(I dont play it, but my friend told me).

Playing with KR,CH, and other regions? You wanna see, me too, becouse it will be tragic, when ppl cant use editet XML, hack, cheats, macro and other shits and must fight fair with top players that fight fair.(I dont wanna offend anyone).

Makabe you're missing the point.

 

I've already said XML editing is bad. What I want is different.

 

The idea was that the Global Cooldown value should be locked so that it can't go below 100, but be automatically modified to match the player's ping. This would be an ingame setting, not an XML edit. This wouldn't allow anyone to achieve superspeed, but instead allow high ping players to almost match the speed of low ping players.

 

Again, I oppose XML editing, despite how tempted I am by it, if only for the fact that I'd get banned for it and it's apparently against the Terms of Services. This idea would be an ingame feature, not a hack.

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Kogaruh   
8 minutes ago, amokk said:

I don't need to read your previous post to tell you that you're wrong.

What I do know is that you CAN cheat with it. I have 10-20ms ping (80-100 ingame). You can squeeze 35 RMBs as Sin in 10seconds with XML-Edit. It doesnt matter what I try, I can never go above 32 - and 32 is the MAXIMUM, which I don't often get (need 0 stutters, 0 ping spikes to get that many RMBs in 10s).

just another ignorant.

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amokk   
38 minutes ago, Kogaruh said:

is using GCD cheating? Nope. Read my previous post.

I don't need to read your previous post to tell you that you're wrong.

What I do know is that you CAN cheat with it. I have 10-20ms ping (80-100 ingame). You can squeeze 35 RMBs as Sin in 10seconds with XML-Edit. It doesnt matter what I try, I can never go above 32 - and 32 is the MAXIMUM, which I don't often get (need 0 stutters, 0 ping spikes to get that many RMBs in 10s).

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amokk   
11 minutes ago, Kogaruh said:

just another ignorant.

Just another useless post by you. You can't get more than 32 RMBs in 10s without XML edit. 

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Irisdina   

GCD is allowed in WoW? and what? We talk about BnS! And its not even talk about GCD, but about editing xml (which is hacking game) as long as devs dont writte on forum OFFICIAL message and change ToS which ALL of us agree of our own free will EVERY TIME we log-in, then its breaking game law, hacking, highly banneble, and cheating. deal with it. If they add some system which "lower ping", allow for something like that, then ok!, but i just HATE any kind of cheaters, hackers, etc. in game. You agree for ToS? Yes! then dont break them! Simple!

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Neog   

It seems to me that people are completely out of the topic in this discussion. The video shows that it is possible to improve the game experience of players with high ping and suggests that NCSoft find a way to implement that into the game. Period. I can not see why anyone would have a valid point against this (only players with low ping that use that need an advantage would be against that).

 

Modifying the xml is against the rules and it is not what people want anyway, discussing this is pointless.

 

And for the person who said it is impossible that you can't find a server with low ping just take a look at a map with the server locations, there is nothing near enough to get 100ms ping in Central America, South America, Africa, Middle East, West Asia, Australia, New Zealand (and btw using an english patch can also be considered modifying the files therefore against the rules).

Edited by Neog
fixing location

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Fatalito   
4 hours ago, Makabe said:

I think this all discution is stupid becouse:

players that said XML edition is OK said it is ok onyly if some group of players can do it(and that isnt fair, if some grou can do, and some cant do on server)

players that said XML edition isnt OK said it is cheat, and it is hight ping players foult for their ping.

 

I know all players wanna have almost 0ms, all players wanna have 120fps all time, and max graphic settiongs, but hey we cant have all we wanna.

Just stop for a moment and think: i wrote in my previous post if we said someone can cheat, then all can cheat. I know hight ping players wanna edit XML to have better gameplay, but if we go that way all players with low ping can say "I wanna have 0ping" or "I wanna have 0 CD skill" or "I wann infinity hp", you know what i mean? Cheat is cheat it isnt matter what cheat you use it allways be cheat, and if we say "cheat are legal" it wont be for one group but for all if we wanna be fair.

Titernia I dont want to offend you but it wikipedia isnt rly good source for this discution, becouse it is created by people like me,you, and other players, you can write there whatever you want.

From perspectiove of WoW from what i know Wow havd ginat exodus(I dont play it, but my friend told me).

Playing with KR,CH, and other regions? You wanna see, me too, becouse it will be tragic, when ppl cant use editet XML, hack, cheats, macro and other shits and must fight fair with top players that fight fair.(I dont wanna offend anyone).

This is why I strongly believe this shouldn't fall onto player's hands. It MUST be the devs who do everything they can to ensure fair gameplay for as many players as they can accommodate. Why? Because this kind of statement only makes me believe that the thoughts of quite a few people without this problem are, that if you have bad ping, you should either suck it up or quit. Both situations are disastrous for the affected players who won't get to play, and the for game which won't benefit from having more players. So for that alone, my most honest opinion is that it is only the devs who should fix the current situation.

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FrozenB   
53 minutes ago, Fatalito said:

This is why I strongly believe this shouldn't fall onto player's hands. It MUST be the devs who do everything they can to ensure fair gameplay for as many players as they can accommodate. Why? Because this kind of statement only makes me believe that the thoughts of quite a few people without this problem are, that if you have bad ping, you should either suck it up or quit. Both situations are disastrous for the affected players who won't get to play, and the for game which won't benefit from having more players. So for that alone, my most honest opinion is that it is only the devs who should fix the current situation.

I don't put too much hope on fixing the current situation soon because they have a lot of stuffs to deal with right now such as decoding the upcoming big patch, fixing the current bugs/localization errors in the game, the new anti-cheat program, etc. In addition, I also specifically asked GM if they will fix this issue or not in the ticket, but all they replied is that they will do investigation in case-by-case method if we provide them proof such as screenshots/videos in game. So, with this typical response, I don't think they care much about this issue because it doesn't hurt their revenue/earning from this game.

 

If you have played long enough, you would notice that there are more and more bugs in the current events. Let's just say about last 2 events, the cloud token expiry date was incorrect that the system even asked you to sell all of the coins for 1 copper. The keys in trove event gave you 0% to get the gems with high crit rate on other items and instead of rollback (tons of work), they just give the players free keys. Last year (before fall season), these kind of stuffs wouldn't happen at all. I wonder if they laid off some of their workers at their end so that the game becomes worse than before.

Edited by FrozenB

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AlanWake   

i said that and ill say it again.

 

if you see someone abusing it, just report him with some sort of proof. (video is best)

if you see someone using it to get good attack speed as low ping player,you wont even know about it.

 

 

and also iam thinking,that maybe only BD class can abuse it.?

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Fatalito   
1 hour ago, FrozenB said:

I don't put too much hope on fixing the current situation soon because they have a lot of stuffs to deal with right now such as decoding the upcoming big patch, fixing the current bugs/localization errors in the game, the new anti-cheat program, etc. In addition, I also specifically asked GM if they will fix this issue or not in the ticket, but all they replied is that they will do investigation in case-by-case method if we provide them proof such as screenshots/videos in game. So, with this typical response, I don't think they care much about this issue because it doesn't hurt their revenue/earning from this game.

 

If you have played long enough, you would notice that there are more and more bugs in the current events. Let's just say about last 2 events, the cloud token expiry date was incorrect that the system even asked you to sell all of the coins for 1 copper. The keys in trove event gave you 0% to get the gems with high crit rate on other items and instead of rollback (tons of work), they just give the players free keys. Last year (before fall season), these kind of stuffs wouldn't happen at all. I wonder if they laid off some of their workers at their end so that the game becomes worse than before.

I can only assume that the increase in bugs is also due to the increase in content. It's typical that adding more content will add more bugs. It will even have the chance to create bugs on old stuff that wasn't bugged before because code is just like that. Maybe they do have less people working on the game because the main part of it is already done, so to maximize resources, they use less people for maintenance and updates.

 

Now, and this is part of my opinion, if devs see a problem as being too big, then they will be forced to make it a priority. Perhaps this ping problem isn't big enough. We all see it's bad for a good amount of people but it's apparently not a game breaker. So the best way to make them see if the problem needs more immediate and careful addressing is to keep the tickets and fix requests coming. I know nobody wants to deal with the usual canned responses. We know for the nth' time, it's not our routers! But all that process is part of a sort of necessary evil here.

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FrozenB   
17 minutes ago, Fatalito said:

I can only assume that the increase in bugs is also due to the increase in content. It's typical that adding more content will add more bugs. It will even have the chance to create bugs on old stuff that wasn't bugged before because code is just like that. Maybe they do have less people working on the game because the main part of it is already done, so to maximize resources, they use less people for maintenance and updates.

 

Now, and this is part of my opinion, if devs see a problem as being too big, then they will be forced to make it a priority. Perhaps this ping problem isn't big enough. We all see it's bad for a good amount of people but it's apparently not a game breaker. So the best way to make them see if the problem needs more immediate and careful addressing is to keep the tickets and fix requests coming. I know nobody wants to deal with the usual canned responses. We know for the nth' time, it's not our routers! But all that process is part of a sort of necessary evil here.

Yes, since we haven't seen an official response/reply from a GM in any of these XML posts for almost a week, I assume they don't care about it much (at least not on their priority list). Usually, if they see something wrong on forum, they will reply immediately or even close the thread too.

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FrozenB   
26 minutes ago, AlanWake said:

i said that and ill say it again.

 

if you see someone abusing it, just report him with some sort of proof. (video is best)

if you see someone using it to get good attack speed as low ping player,you wont even know about it.

 

 

and also iam thinking,that maybe only BD class can abuse it.?

Actually, I am thinking that any class can abuse it, especially the class that can have 100-0 combo.

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bom   

IDK why people with low pings is bitching about this suggestion. Yes, modifying XML file is violating ToS and it is really "hacking", but what these high ping players want is NC implies this system into "real" client but within limit range (90~300 value, so the low ping can't abuse and high ping player can "enjoy" the game as it should be).
This is not Lower your ping, it just increases/decreases the time delay of putting the command of a next attack in queue before the previous attack executed. 
The funny part is that there is someone in this thread use robbing the bank as an example because it clearly off the point.

 High ping players are already handicapped compare to other people. Like if I am a disabled person, and there is a treatment for that, you cannot use it because you are a "normal" person with full functional body parts, so you bitching about the compensation why the disabled person can use the treatment where you cannot ? Like for fuk sake they want to be a disabled person.  
I'm not supporting the modifying XML file since it's clearly a hack and cheating. But I totally support if NC can make this into the game, so people can enjoy them from all around the world. 
Don't ask me or any high ping players to change server, since we CAN'T play at those. Cn, Kr, Jp as example because they usually have IP block or need to have HSSN or something to register, like passport number. We cant' speak their languages, too. My English is not that good either but I can use it to communicate, not totally shut down like Kr and Jp. Eng patch might be a temporary solution, but we cannot reach to high content where communicate is a MUST (BT raid, vortex blah blah).
To conclude, I have experienced both high pings (350ms normal, 280ms with pingzapper stuff) and low ping (160 normal, 130 with pingzapper stuff) and it's really game breaking experience. My BD DPS increases like 20k with just low equipment (730 before the stratus update I think). Haven't test my DPS on high ping again with my current equipment (970 ish) but I'm sure the gap is even larger, I'm not using this XML thing since I don't know how and I don't want to get banned either, but yea,  a BD with 30pings feel is really tempting. 
 

 

Edited by bom

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Let say:

 

-There hungry people who will either die out of hunger or commit a crime to survive.

-There is house that forgets to lock the door, inside where has a fridge full of food that can handle their hunger. When hungry people see such a house:

+Some are scared of being arrested, so they ignore it and try to find some other way to deal with their hunger. Maybe they will find it. Maybe they will give up and die out of hunger.

+Some knows the consequences, but still taking risk stealing from the house so that they can get a full stomach, or else they will die out of hunger.

-Even worse, someone with good income that does not have any worry about food can still commit the thieving. Maybe he won't interest in the fridge, but target something else more valuable inside the house

 

So now is the questions: is it the thief's fault for stealing, or the house-owner's fault for carelessly leaving his door unlocked?

 

I dunno about your answer, but I said both, with the fault leans toward the house-owner.   If you post this on Facebook or something, I'm pretty sure you will heard plenty "Why can you be so careless?", "Be glad that only you're still alive"..., implying that the fault is at the owner for being careless, and people already accept that potential crime are always around you, and giving chance to the crime to blossom is something you shouldn't do.

 

So, turn to our case:

-Who is hungry people that have to commit thieving? High ping players who want a better performance. For some people, it is a play-or-quit situation.

-Which is the house with unlocked door and a fridge full of food? That is the xml, and a line of code that conveniently benefits players. Nothing too complicated about fixing the code, like you just walk into a house with unlocked door and open the door of the fridge.

-Who is the people who are not hungry but still stealing cuz of greed? Low-ping players who can exploit the code.

-Who is the careless owner who forget to unlock his door, resulting his fridge getting raided? NCSoft, of course. Why can they just leave a line of code that has important meaning carelessly in something that can easily to be tweaked by players with a few simple tools?

 

tl;nr: it is NCSoft's fault for not taking care of their client properly, resulting in players, high or low ping, to take advantage on it in large number. You cannot blame people committing crime everywhere when you create the chance for crime to prosper and slow to act against them.

 

Similar to the SS-through-door incident back to Moonwater era. There were people who actively exploited it, and people who just followed the flow. No way to distinguish between them, or NCWest would have knew who to ban. What can they do to fix this mess and prevent further exploitation? Fix the thing.

 

And yeah, fixing the thing was what they do with the SS-through-door exploit, and was the correct way to do. 

 

Cuz after that, I no longer saw threads about SS-through-door anymore, lol.

Edited by Alysha Hawkeye

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matthew   

Seems like theres nothing wrong with using it. Otherwise this thread would've been moderated already. Although i strongly recommend people do not download 3rd party software that will alter BnS files. (thats just asking for trouble imho).

.XML edits are pretty much just adjusting the game settings. Same as adjusting texture resolution, audio volume, V-sync outside of game etc. The reason they exist is to provide a more technical workaround for common problems. It's also very easy to lock down this file or even store the setting on server side before the game launches.


As a former Garena/gamearena admin this same setting was freely adjustable for players. Its a tagline in almost all Unreal Engine games that can be set both in console and in ini files. The command "set delayupstream=, Set delaydownstream. This was an allowable edit in all games utilising UE3 on gamearena aswell as our league servers.


Still i am not an Ncsoft employee and its up to them. I would tweet or contact Julliane as an Australian she would be able to give us some guidance on this settings legality. Something like this is not an ingame setting because if you set it too aggresive in one way or another it could massively have a negative effect on the playability of the game.

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raiklock   

What's the main subject here? ATTACK SPEED.

Ping 30-50 gives you the INTENDED attack speed developed by the devs.

High ping players DOES NOT have the intended attack speed, editing the XML puts them close to the intended attack speed.

Low ping players can abuse it and have a FASTER attack speed than the intended.

What the video suggests is to end the abusing from low ping players (because they already have the good attack speed), and give high ping players a good attack speed through OFFICIAL methods, so people don't need to edit anything.

 

HOW IS THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

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LimeGem   
22 minutes ago, raiklock said:

What's the main subject here? ATTACK SPEED.

Ping 30-50 gives you the INTENDED attack speed developed by the devs.

High ping players DOES NOT have the intended attack speed, editing the XML puts them close to the intended attack speed.

Low ping players can abuse it and have a FASTER attack speed than the intended.

What the video suggests is to end the abusing from low ping players (because they already have the good attack speed), and give high ping players a good attack speed through OFFICIAL methods, so people don't need to edit anything.

 

HOW IS THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

that is the point .   +++++++++ from me

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RavTH   
On 6/1/2017 at 3:38 AM, Shanetheillest said:

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that modding files isn't allowed since nc does not support it and you're risking your account by doing so, the devs have clarified this many times. Even using ping boosters can get you banned. No one is claiming that it's allowed but rather how helpful it is for those with high ping and what the devs can do to make the game enjoyable for players with high ping.

modding the client to gain something from it is not allowed but changing voices ingame is allowed. :P

 

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5 hours ago, RavTH said:

modding the client to gain something from it is not allowed but changing voices ingame is allowed. :P

 

Even with voice packs they didn't officially say it's allowed, they said to use them at your own risk lol

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Fatalito   
13 hours ago, Alysha Hawkeye said:

Let say:

 

-There hungry people who will either die out of hunger or commit a crime to survive.

-There is house that forgets to lock the door, inside where has a fridge full of food that can handle their hunger. When hungry people see such a house:

+Some are scared of being arrested, so they ignore it and try to find some other way to deal with their hunger. Maybe they will find it. Maybe they will give up and die out of hunger.

+Some knows the consequences, but still taking risk stealing from the house so that they can get a full stomach, or else they will die out of hunger.

-Even worse, someone with good income that does not have any worry about food can still commit the thieving. Maybe he won't interest in the fridge, but target something else more valuable inside the house

 

So now is the questions: is it the thief's fault for stealing, or the house-owner's fault for carelessly leaving his door unlocked?

 

I dunno about your answer, but I said both, with the fault leans toward the house-owner.   If you post this on Facebook or something, I'm pretty sure you will heard plenty "Why can you be so careless?", "Be glad that only you're still alive"..., implying that the fault is at the owner for being careless, and people already accept that potential crime are always around you, and giving chance to the crime to blossom is something you shouldn't do.

 

So, turn to our case:

-Who is hungry people that have to commit thieving? High ping players who want a better performance. For some people, it is a play-or-quit situation.

-Which is the house with unlocked door and a fridge full of food? That is the xml, and a line of code that conveniently benefits players. Nothing too complicated about fixing the code, like you just walk into a house with unlocked door and open the door of the fridge.

-Who is the people who are not hungry but still stealing cuz of greed? Low-ping players who can exploit the code.

-Who is the careless owner who forget to unlock his door, resulting his fridge getting raided? NCSoft, of course. Why can they just leave a line of code that has important meaning carelessly in something that can easily to be tweaked by players with a few simple tools?

 

tl;nr: it is NCSoft's fault for not taking care of their client properly, resulting in players, high or low ping, to take advantage on it in large number. You cannot blame people committing crime everywhere when you create the chance for crime to prosper and slow to act against them.

 

Similar to the SS-through-door incident back to Moonwater era. There were people who actively exploited it, and people who just followed the flow. No way to distinguish between them, or NCWest would have knew who to ban. What can they do to fix this mess and prevent further exploitation? Fix the thing.

 

And yeah, fixing the thing was what they do with the SS-through-door exploit, and was the correct way to do. 

 

Cuz after that, I no longer saw threads about SS-through-door anymore, lol.

Hmmmm. Not entirely how crime and guilt works. It is not a crime to be careless with your own material property unless that material property can harm others by being careless, which results in a negligence charge (like a misplaced loaded gun, or a car that is left alone without it's parking brake on). And yes, people who do see a door open and enter it without permission and steal, are 100% guilty of the crime. It's all on them for entering uninvited and taking what is not theirs, regardless of the circumstances around it. Law itself, at it's core, is black and white. No grey shades. You are either innocent or guilty. You either committed a crime or you didn't. Simple as that.

 

7 hours ago, RavTH said:

modding the client to gain something from it is not allowed but changing voices ingame is allowed. :P

 

Not being monitored for banning does not mean it's allowed. They just won't ban you for using such a mod. But then again, if even a voice changer mod ends up being used to gain an unfair advantage, then it will jump from not monitored to bannable offense. It's why some games even right out disallow simple mods like texture edits. Then again, I believe BnS's ToS states that no modifications to the client are allowed, and to my better understanding, the "client" (Definition "f", named "Game" on the User Agreement that shows up every single time you log into the game before your character select screen) covers all game files you download from the official site. Not just the .exe file that runs the game.

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RavTH   
16 hours ago, Shanetheillest said:

Even with voice packs they didn't officially say it's allowed, they said to use them at your own risk lol

no am talking the voices that are with our game client

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Fufia   

Today in a PT something caught my attention in this lyn ATK Speed

And i click Ctrl+F9 after killing one boss he linck DPS this in a normal run and he admitted use BS Buddy

I should report this guy?

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LiriC   

BS Buddy from what I know, is more or less legal.

I don't use it.. but if it is legal, I might use it as well in the future, if they keep adding content that makes the game crash in loading, I just might.. and don't get me wrong I don't run it on wood pc..  with i7 / 12 gb ram / ssd .. I almost crash in loading screen..  each time if I want to "click" in loading screen the game will freez and it will give me the circle of death and with the msg if I want to wait or close.. I load it in 5 sec.. and I never had a problem till they added this xincode thing .. I don't blame people for trying to make there game run better / faster... if BNS can't do it for us.

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Fufia   

I am sure most ppl using this not to fix the game but to get advantage.

Funny is this ppl show of and dont have problam say he use this program.

Is why i ask should i lost my time report or NCS just dont do anything

Edited by Fufia

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