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How are XML editers not banned yet?


Lovey

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25 minutes ago, Lemy said:

Why are people just now complaining about this? Editing the xml is not something new xD its been out for years now. I guess people will use it as a new excuse for losing in arena now.

It is fine. I just want to see how the top tier players in NA/EU PVP ladders got bullied in the world tournament by the end of this year when they can't hide behind the screen and cheat anymore.

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I think you should calm yourself down for the most part... lol

 

Srsly, it´s not that people who are doing this are 'hacking' or 'cheating' or whatever, but more than that it´s an absolute joke that blade and soul is too retarded to just adjust the value *automatically* depending on your average ping (as it needs to be 50 if you have ~50ms or 200 if you have ~200ms and so on. This is also why people who have high ping get the most out of it, as the default is 100, which is very much not ideal for let's say 200ms! Giving people the best experience out of the box without them having to buy ping booster and yaddiyadda should be an *ABSOLUTE* priority if this game tries to be a PVP game AT ALL!

 

The only reason doing this is kinda controversial and I would not necessarily recommend doing so is because the XMLs are not actually accessible without first decompiling the .dat file. But I won´t hate on people who do it anyway, but instead just make them aware of a potential risk.

 

For me seeing what this setting actually does. From an ethical standpoint, I'd say banning people who are doing that is the same thing as banning people who are using wtfast, pingzapper, or are living too close to the server. But then again if anything I would not ban them for that, but rather for decompiling the .dat file to begin with as that´s surely not within the licence agreement to de-compile blade and soul and make your own. Though, you're not decompiling the game. Your decompiling xml-config files, which under normal circumstances are MADE to be readable and editable by humans.

 

Other players just want a dps meter in every area, which NCSOFT apparently thinks is a bad idea, because then casuals would become aware of their beyond horrible dps. Those ppl also decompile the same .dat file and edit the same xml to enable this feature in every area. If you ban those who use it to optimise latency you'd have to ban the other bunch too in my mind. Just saying. It´s probably not gonna happen.

 

You should complain about NCSOFTS incompetence, that players have to do THEIR WORK MANUALLY, not about the players doing so.

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18 minutes ago, N3ro said:

I think you should calm yourself down for the most part... lol

 

Srsly, it´s not that people who are doing this are 'hacking' or 'cheating' or whatever, but more than that it´s an absolute joke that blade and soul is too retarded to just adjust the value *automatically* depending on your average ping (as it needs to be 50 if you have ~50ms or 200 if you have ~200ms and so on. Giving people the best experience out of the box without them having to buy ping booster and yaddiyadda should be an *ABSOLUTE* priority if this game tries to be a PVP game AT ALL!

 

The only reason doing this is kinda controversial and I would not necessarily recommend doing so is because the XMLs are not actually accessible without first decompiling the .dat file. But I won´t hate on people who do it anyway, but instead just make them aware of a potential risk.

 

For me seeing what this setting actually does. From an ethical standpoint, I'd say banning people who are doing that is the same thing as banning people who are using wtfast, pingzapper, or are living too close to the server. But then again if anything I would not ban them for that, but rather for decompiling the .dat file to begin with as that´s surely not within the licence agreement to de-compile blade and soul and make your own. Though, you're not decompiling the game. Your decompiling xml-config files, which under normal circumstances are MADE to be readable and editable by humans.

 

Other players just want a dps meter in every area, which NCSOFT apparently thinks is a bad idea, because then casuals would become aware of their beyond horrible dps. Those ppl also decompile the same .dat file and edit the same xml to enable this feature in every area. If you ban those who use it to optimise latency you'd have to ban the other bunch too in my mind. Just saying. It´s probably not gonna happen.

 

You should complain about NCSOFTS incompetence, that players have to do THEIR WORK MANUALLY, not about the players doing so.

Exactly but no use wasting your time trying to tell them that lol they will continue to say it's hacking smh

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With high speed internet just about everywhere today; how is a "speed hack" supposed to work? Originally, it was a hack used to cause huge lag spikes and sometimes even disconnects for people who were on slower connections when 57kbs was the fastest speed available unless one was playing on a T1 connection. It was called a "Speed Hack" because it would appear to the person on the slower connection that the attacker was skipping or warping across the screen. In reality, this in itself, was not the hack. That was just a symptom of the lag in which the game couldn't download the data fast enough to display on the screen.

 

That said, depending on the game, lag spikes are still common. But "speed hacks"? What would be the point? Everybody is already moving quickly,.

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1 hour ago, N3ro said:

I think you should calm yourself down for the most part... lol

 

Srsly, it´s not that people who are doing this are 'hacking' or 'cheating' or whatever, but more than that it´s an absolute joke that blade and soul is too retarded to just adjust the value *automatically* depending on your average ping (as it needs to be 50 if you have ~50ms or 200 if you have ~200ms and so on. This is also why people who have high ping get the most out of it, as the default is 100, which is very much not ideal for let's say 200ms! Giving people the best experience out of the box without them having to buy ping booster and yaddiyadda should be an *ABSOLUTE* priority if this game tries to be a PVP game AT ALL!

 

The only reason doing this is kinda controversial and I would not necessarily recommend doing so is because the XMLs are not actually accessible without first decompiling the .dat file. But I won´t hate on people who do it anyway, but instead just make them aware of a potential risk.

 

For me seeing what this setting actually does. From an ethical standpoint, I'd say banning people who are doing that is the same thing as banning people who are using wtfast, pingzapper, or are living too close to the server. But then again if anything I would not ban them for that, but rather for decompiling the .dat file to begin with as that´s surely not within the licence agreement to de-compile blade and soul and make your own. Though, you're not decompiling the game. Your decompiling xml-config files, which under normal circumstances are MADE to be readable and editable by humans.

 

Other players just want a dps meter in every area, which NCSOFT apparently thinks is a bad idea, because then casuals would become aware of their beyond horrible dps. Those ppl also decompile the same .dat file and edit the same xml to enable this feature in every area. If you ban those who use it to optimise latency you'd have to ban the other bunch too in my mind. Just saying. It´s probably not gonna happen.

 

You should complain about NCSOFTS incompetence, that players have to do THEIR WORK MANUALLY, not about the players doing so.

So basically your saying people messed around with stuff that can get them banned but yet they should not get punished because its not really a hack but an improvement? I'm trying to see this from point of view of those who edit XML files. And yes I do some what understand why people were using it. but people in this forum trying to justify this as an effort to improve BnS because NC is lazy to improve it on its own, are just coming up with excuses. Everyone knew that by editing XML files, they are violating NC soft user agreement but they did it anyways. no matter how you put this, they've done things that are not allowed by rule. and when you break the rule we call that cheating.

 

I feel that not everyone should be banned over this and I'm not going to say what punishments people should get but the point that this is not allowed and still is offense where you can get banned for should be clear.

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7 minutes ago, hwalien said:

So basically your saying people messed around with stuff that can get them banned but yet they should not get punished because its not really a hack but an improvement? I'm trying to see this from point of view of those who edit XML files. And yes I do some what understand why people were using it. but people in this forum trying to justify this as an effort to improve BnS because NC is lazy to improve it on its own, are just coming up with excuses. Everyone knew that by editing XML files, they are violating NC soft user agreement but they did it anyways. no matter how you put this, they've done things that are not allowed by rule. and when you break the rule we call that cheating.

 

I feel that not everyone should be banned over this and I'm not going to say what punishments people should get but the point that this is not allowed and still is offense where you can get banned for should be clear.

Most people are just irritated that you among others say that high ping is the players fault and that an attempt to play on equal grounds for them should flat out be banned. If you want to play a game with equal circumstances to other players but can only do so by putting your account at risk, something is wrong on the developers end. Something need to be done about it, but you are still calling for extremes.

 

The select few that abuse the same method to attack faster than intended are the ONLY reason this is a problem, had those people not existed, the players with high ping would be able to play pretty much like everyone without risking it being noticed because it would not be an advantage to them, they would just get closer to everyone else.

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28 minutes ago, Yndril said:

Most people are just irritated that you among others say that high ping is the players fault and that an attempt to play on equal grounds for them should flat out be banned. If you want to play a game with equal circumstances to other players but can only do so by putting your account at risk, something is wrong on the developers end. Something need to be done about it, but you are still calling for extremes.

 

The select few that abuse the same method to attack faster than intended are the ONLY reason this is a problem, had those people not existed, the players with high ping would be able to play pretty much like everyone without risking it being noticed because it would not be an advantage to them, they would just get closer to everyone else.

"attempt to play on equal grounds"

Awe yes, equal grounds.

Let us lower our ping to ~10 ms to match Korea

So, players with high ping trying to play on equal ground as "normal ping" Na Players

Meanwhile "Normal ping" NA players are trying to lower our ping, so we can be on 

EQUAL ground with Korean players.

 

Sound fair, no hack.

 

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29 minutes ago, Yndril said:

Most people are just irritated that you among others say that high ping is the players fault and that an attempt to play on equal grounds for them should flat out be banned. If you want to play a game with equal circumstances to other players but can only do so by putting your account at risk, something is wrong on the developers end. Something need to be done about it, but you are still calling for extremes.

 

The select few that abuse the same method to attack faster than intended are the ONLY reason this is a problem, had those people not existed, the players with high ping would be able to play pretty much like everyone without risking it being noticed because it would not be an advantage to them, they would just get closer to everyone else.

How do you distinguish between the players with high ping and low ping using this editor? Send ticket and report them when you 'think' they have low ping and using editor in pvp? LOL...I doubt GM will care about it at all. They would reply "Thank you for your reports. It will takes time for the investigation." and then...nothing happened because they never show their investigation result anyways. So, then everyone has to deal with the player who does 10-20 sunder in a second.

 

It is best to not allow anyone to edit the game files. 

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22 minutes ago, AhComplicate said:

"attempt to play on equal grounds"

Awe yes, equal grounds.

Let us lower our ping to ~10 ms to match Korea

So, players with high ping trying to play on equal ground as "normal ping" Na Players

Meanwhile "Normal ping" NA players are trying to lower our ping, so we can be on 

EQUAL ground with Korean players.

 

Sound fair, no hack.

 

Thanks for proving my point. The ping is still the same no matter how many times to try to be smart.

 

14 minutes ago, FrozenB said:

How do you distinguish between the players with high ping and low ping using this editor? Send ticket and report them when you 'think' they have low ping and using editor in pvp? LOL...I doubt GM will care about it at all. They would reply "Thank you for your reports. It will takes time for the investigation." and then...nothing happened because they never show their investigation result anyways. So, then everyone has to deal with the player who does 10-20 sunder in a second.

 

It is best to not allow anyone to edit the game files. 

You do realize that most people have been asking for a legit way to change that value, one that can't be abused (it is being abused if you have low ping and lower that modifier to below 100). Or even better, a runtime modifier that can't be changed by the player at all (except actual hacking, which would be considerably easier to detect). You are sorely mistaken if you think that people WANT to put their account at risk to have a similar gaming experience as the guys with decent ping.

 

And you wouldn't "think" they'd been fiddling with the values and have low ping. That' be like saying "Should I report to the police of this guy wearing a ski-mask with a gun pointed at the store clerk? I THINK he is trying to rob the place"... maybe a little extreme, but hope you can catch my drift...

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I think xml supporters should stop bothering themselves with  people who does not even understand what xml editing can really do.

 

They are as well the same level of people who label everyone playing a Lyn character as lolicon and pedophile. No matter how well and convincing your attempt to explain is, they will never want to listen and will stubbornly stick to that way of thinking till their graves.

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16 minutes ago, Alysha Hawkeye said:

I think xml supporters should stop bothering themselves with  people who does not even understand what xml editing can really do.

 

They are as well the same level of people who label everyone playing a Lyn character as lolicon and pedophile. No matter how well and convincing your attempt to explain is, they will never want to listen and will stubbornly stick to that way of thinking till their graves.

Think the term you're looking for is narrow-minded... well, i'm not really a supporter, I think it shouldn't ever be a reason to ever change that file other than to do malicious things (in which case it would be easy to just do a hash table to see if the file is changed or compile the xml into the client (latter is unlikely to happen since it would bloat the size of the exe)). But that is sadly not our current situation.

 

Edit: Think I must have been living under a rock, can't remember anyone saying that anyone that play Lyn is pedophiles... even if it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if people would rant about that too....

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2 hours ago, Yndril said:

Thanks for proving my point. The ping is still the same no matter how many times to try to be smart.

If I've made your point and "The ping is still the same"

Why are you complaining about people lowering their ping, when they have low ping

to start with.

 

Why are you so #selfish to the point, you are willingly to use the "Cheat" yourself to lower your ping

and not allow anyone else use it (aka low ping players)

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7 hours ago, FrozenB said:

It is fine. I just want to see how the top tier players in NA/EU PVP ladders got bullied in the world tournament by the end of this year when they can't hide behind the screen and cheat anymore.

That's pretty ignorant to think those players even edit their xml and aren't just skilled with their class. Having low ping doesn't guarantee you're going to be top in arena or any other aspect of the game. If that were the case then I would be at the top because I already have low ping.

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7 hours ago, AhComplicate said:

If I've made your point and "The ping is still the same"

Why are you complaining about people lowering their ping, when they have low ping

to start with.

 

Why are you so #selfish to the point, you are willingly to use the "Cheat" yourself to lower your ping

and not allow anyone else use it (aka low ping players)

The sun does not orbit the earth.

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15 hours ago, FrozenB said:

It is fine. I just want to see how the top tier players in NA/EU PVP ladders got bullied in the world tournament by the end of this year when they can't hide behind the screen and cheat anymore.

That just proofs that you ARE searching for an excuse to lose in PvP. 

 

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5 hours ago, Fesselspielchen said:

That just proofs that you ARE searching for an excuse to lose in PvP. 

 

LOL....comparing hitting 10 sunders in a second and hitting 10 sunders in 5 seconds, you know the difference. It is just like in battlefield, you only have seraph/baleful weapon and have to go against full raven gear players where you hit them 20 times only drop their hp 20-30% and you got 2 hit KO'ed using exact same skills.

 

Also, I was referring to the world tournament. I don't know what you are talking about. We will see what happen by the end of this year. I have my popcorn ready already.

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13 hours ago, Lemy said:

That's pretty ignorant to think those players even edit their xml and aren't just skilled with their class. Having low ping doesn't guarantee you're going to be top in arena or any other aspect of the game. If that were the case then I would be at the top because I already have low ping.

Yes, but definitely they have advantage over others who didn't cheat. XML doesn't make your ping go lower, it just makes your skills cooldown faster so you can spam the skills without any delays. In the end, it compensates with the delays from your high ping. However, low ping players will have high advantages as they can do much faster attacks than other players who didn't cheat, but have same ping.

 

Player A (without cheat): 50ms

Player B (with cheat): 50ms

Player C (with cheat): 300ms 

 

Player C can attack at the same speed as player A.

Player B can attack 6x faster than player C.

Player B can attack 6X faster than player A.

 

You see the problem here? The low ping players can use it to gain advantage over other players.

 

In the end, I still think all players should not edit any game files or else it should be considered "hacking". If you have high ping, just try all other ping killers. If none works for you, then it is sorry to say that this game is not for you. 

 

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20 hours ago, Yndril said:

Most people are just irritated that you among others say that high ping is the players fault and that an attempt to play on equal grounds for them should flat out be banned. If you want to play a game with equal circumstances to other players but can only do so by putting your account at risk, something is wrong on the developers end. Something need to be done about it, but you are still calling for extremes.

 

The select few that abuse the same method to attack faster than intended are the ONLY reason this is a problem, had those people not existed, the players with high ping would be able to play pretty much like everyone without risking it being noticed because it would not be an advantage to them, they would just get closer to everyone else.

I play with 200~300 ping myself which is considered high ping for most but that does not give me rights to hack the files that I normally would not have access to. Yes, NC should do something about the ping difference between players but until they come up with the solution, we're stuck with what we have. I'm sure most people agree with me that just banning everyone is not a solution to this but at the same time we can not allow this file editing to continue because no matter how you put this it is hacking there for it is unfair to those who wants to play the game as intended.

 

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3 hours ago, FrozenB said:

Yes, but definitely they have advantage over others who didn't cheat. XML doesn't make your ping go lower, it just makes your skills cooldown faster so you can spam the skills without any delays. In the end, it compensates with the delays from your high ping. However, low ping players will have high advantages as they can do much faster attacks than other players who didn't cheat, but have same ping.

 

Player A (without cheat): 50ms

Player B (with cheat): 50ms

Player C (with cheat): 300ms 

 

Player C can attack at the same speed as player A.

Player B can attack 6x faster than player C.

Player B can attack 6X faster than player A.

 

You see the problem here? The low ping players can use it to gain advantage over other players.

 

In the end, I still think all players should not edit any game files or else it should be considered "hacking". If you have high ping, just try all other ping killers. If none works for you, then it is sorry to say that this game is not for you. 

 

Now you are starting to understand. How it is now is wrong and it need to be fixed, but you can't deny the effect it gives for the high ping players. NC need to either give you a regulated and legit option (you can't go lower than 100 or higher than 300, makes it impossible to abuse it) or simply keep the value updated (and limited) at runtime so that the players can't do anything with it. The problem isn't really the high ping players, it's the low ping players abusing it.

 

26 minutes ago, hwalien said:

I play with 200~300 ping myself which is considered high ping for most but that does not give me rights to hack the files that I normally would not have access to. Yes, NC should do something about the ping difference between players but until they come up with the solution, we're stuck with what we have. I'm sure most people agree with me that just banning everyone is not a solution to this but at the same time we can not allow this file editing to continue because no matter how you put this it is hacking there for it is unfair to those who wants to play the game as intended.

 

No, it doesn't give you any rights to fiddle with settings you shouldn't be able to fiddle with (it's encrypted for a reason...). But some players are not going to be patient with waiting for NC to fix the issue (this has been an issue since launch but the devs have done nothing to fix it). It's not right, but I don't think they should get banned for wanting to play the game as the devs intended, maybe a temp ban or warning, though the abusers (aka cheaters) should just get outright banned. The only reason people are on a witch-hunt now is because this illegitimate "fix" was found out by some low ping users that learned that they could break the game with it. Had those low ping players just kept out of this, you and no one else would even know of its existence, So you would have had no reason to go all berserk yelling "banhammer! Ban them ALL!"

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22 minutes ago, Yndril said:

Now you are starting to understand. How it is now is wrong and it need to be fixed, but you can't deny the effect it gives for the high ping players. NC need to either give you a regulated and legit option (you can't go lower than 100 or higher than 300, makes it impossible to abuse it) or simply keep the value updated (and limited) at runtime so that the players can't do anything with it. The problem isn't really the high ping players, it's the low ping players abusing it.

 

No, it doesn't give you any rights to fiddle with settings you shouldn't be able to fiddle with (it's encrypted for a reason...). But some players are not going to be patient with waiting for NC to fix the issue (this has been an issue since launch but the devs have done nothing to fix it). It's not right, but I don't think they should get banned for wanting to play the game as the devs intended, maybe a temp ban or warning, though the abusers (aka cheaters) should just get outright banned. The only reason people are on a witch-hunt now is because this illegitimate "fix" was found out by some low ping users that learned that they could break the game with it. Had those low ping players just kept out of this, you and no one else would even know of its existence, So you would have had no reason to go all berserk yelling "banhammer! Ban them ALL!"

problem since day one. some found a way to mess with XML but kept it quiet while it slowly spreed around the game. now someone opened it to public and your saying this would have been okay if this person had kept their mouth shut? what? now that's selfish. If I was to judge, you will be the first in line to get banned. and I'm on the side with those who says not everyone deserves to be banned.

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30 minutes ago, hwalien said:

problem since day one. some found a way to mess with XML but kept it quiet while it slowly spreed around the game. now someone opened it to public and your saying this would have been okay if this person had kept their mouth shut? what? now that's selfish. If I was to judge, you will be the first in line to get banned. and I'm on the side with those who says not everyone deserves to be banned.

Guy who found it out shared it with other people, had no malicious intent and/or did not know it could be abused. A lot of people could now finally attack somewhere close to everyone else. Several people that do not use it have heard it by now. No one really cares, high ping players could attack almost as fast as those with low ping, good for them. Now some low ping player get adventurous and test if this setting that is helping high ping players could be used to attack even faster. It works, he now spread the word that you can abuse this to attack faster, more players start to abuse it. Now people actually notice that some players have an unfair advantage and it gets more frequent as more people learned about the possible abuse. Now players that was using this for however long are being declared cheaters despite the only thing THEY did was break the ToS to be able to have a less unfair gameplay. If this was regulated by the devs, there would never have been a reason for the high ping players to try to find a solution on their own.

 

if that low ping guy wouldn't have taught other how this could be used to abuse it (better yet, never learned it to begin with), YOU would have no reason to do anything because it would not matter to you if people were using this under fair-use.

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Okay. I just got this response from a GM with this issue. 

 

RainToday at 13:46

Hello,

Players should not alter game files to gain an advantage over other players (such as altering cool downs, damage increase hacks, speed hacks or auto-target hacks). If there is an add-on or program that clearly exploits something in game or gives you an advantage over other players, do not use it. If you have any other questions about what is considered a violation, please refer to the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct: http://us.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-agreements/

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Regards, 

Rain
NCSOFT Support Team

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