do something about AFK ppl

[Sinned]

Well, some time ago I made a topic about vote kick system (was when Tower of Memories event was on), and presumption was always that it will be abused. Problem is, that lack of such system is also abused. 90% of the time you see ppl from the same clan they can make the instance alone anyway, so that's actually rare. Other thing is, and I take a lot of stuff from playing Tera. There was that problem, that if some player works against the party, but he's in with his friend/clan mate, his mate won't vote him, and he can't be kicked. Also, the system being like for offline player is that it first happens in cross-server in cross server there are also the FR and DE servers, and no matter how it sound some of them don't speak English, and I won't even comment over 50% of the TR players, that don't know anything but Turkish so GL dealing with them (same goes for Brazilians on NA servers, the bad part is Portuguese is more common to be spoken by someone in Europe than US) so GL explaining to them to right click on someone, if something pops up, it's more common for them to learn what that is. From Tera however I've learned one other thing. There you also get a half hour de-buff if you leave matched instance (Tera's cross-server matching is made from inside the game, and you continue to play while waiting, you don't stay in a lobby, but you don't have any other party recruitment system, we have Dragon Spires and the left panel in F8) and you can't use the matching, so such add-on will be good here too, because of players that enter some party, party enters the dung and then they see "of, we don't have WL, BB and pick, I'll leave" so some half hour de-buff for such players will be also welcome, and when you have that you can't use the LFP button and left panel is empty. Add a 1 hour de-buff for AFK voted players (some voting system) and if he stays AFK, he gets the boot, and he can only find party on faction chat, but on faction chat he won't be able to find party that will let him leach and if he tries, the whole faction will learn about that, so in a week his only option will be F8. Now imagine, you try to do it easy for you, enter party and leach, but you get the boot, you don't finish quest, and you can't find party on F8 because of the boot, and on faction you can't find party, because everyone knows you'll enter and leach, so no one takes you - you have 4 options: clan/friends, wait and try again, risking another 1 hour, solo, leave the game, because you can't do anything. All options are a big win for those that voted you.

As for abuse, both ways can be abused, but not having the system leaves players to abuse freely, and that makes a lot of players stop the game too. So may be some trial period, for like a month or 2 and count the pros and cons then, after all that system can work for you, but also against you.....

[Yndril]

Any vote kick system can and will be abused, that is a fact. BUT, it's also a fact that lack of such a system will be abused too, which is our current situation. AFK players are left unpunished while the unwilling rest are punished with the fact that they're unable to get rid of the leecher and knowing that they'll not be punished in any way for their toxic behavior.

 

We have two report buttons, and neither fits the bill. I think a report button for AFK would be a good addition, even if the only thing it did, was tagging that players characters with an "AFK" tag after their name (similar to the blocksign for someone who is blocked) and MAYBE also send it for review for the support, but that'd be a hassle for them,, so that's not likely to happen. But if they added just the sign, you see their name with a red "AFK" sign (applied to the client similar to the spamlist, but for the entire client, not just on one char). you'd immediately see that he/she is prior offender to being AFK and you can leave right from the get-go instead of going inside and see them AFK when you already wasted time to start the dungeon. That way, if he is an active offender to AFK, more and more people will tag him and leave and he'll eventually have no one to leech from since everyone will just leave the moment they see the tag.

 

I can only see one downside to this, people will use this tag to more than just AFK players, in general just "players they really don't want to play with", but that is basically what the blocklist is now anyway except it has a limit, is character specific, and on the server. It can't really be abused, but the recurring offenders will in time be punished by not having anyone to leech from. and that would in time extend to places they don't/can't leech from by having fewer people, or eventually, no one to play with. One-time offenders will not see much if any difference, occasional offenders might see more people leave his/her group more frequently. Put a limit to how many accounts you can tag (say 50 or 100, like the other two lists) and people won't just indiscriminately throw tags at people and might consider clearing the list every now and then. If the recurring offenders learned their lesson, they'd eventually be rid of the stigma, if they keep doing the same thing even after that... well, at least they got a brief taste of social interaction...

[LemurJesus]

So why not implement a user reputation system. Wait, we kinda have something like that.  It kinda doesn't really work, and could DEFINITELY use some tuning/ report type additions, but we do have that system in place. Tune it so that more accurate reports can be entered, and apply long term history in the way of an algorithmic change to the users "party reputation" biased on the number of occurrence that are reported, the frequency of that player being reported, and the frequency that the player making the report tends to report players for a specific action (weighted by how often they're 'right').

okay, on to step two.

Turn on vote kick with popup, and 50% or greater votes required to kick... on the condition that a player has developed a significant negative reputation for AFK/ Toxic dungeon behavior(also a change in player name color would be a good indicator that they can be kicked).  Yes, this would not stop bad behavior every once in a while... but being realistic, everyone has bad days, and sometimes those bad days transition into getting annoyed with a player, rage quitting, and the like. Not a 100% instant answer to the problem, but also not doing exactly 0% about the issue.

Thoughts?  It's too expensive to implement, looking at how much programing work would have to be done to the client. Plus the likelihood of messing it up is rather high.

[Yndril]

Just now, newbiez said:

we dont need those complicated thing what so ever...again we just need the same system votekick like we did on offline player...those tag like blocked tag is no use since we cant see it during premade...

Then add so you can see it in lobby, problem solved...

[newbiez]

we dont need those complicated thing what so ever...again we just need the same system votekick like we did on offline player...those tag like blocked tag is no use since we cant see it during premade...

[newbiez]

so what if the pt members dc and auto removed from pt due time limited...the lead start to rec and get this so called tag members joining in...we cant get kick that tag player right? unless that tag player dc...so no use that kind of tag option

[Yndril]

1 minute ago, newbiez said:

so what if the pt members dc and auto removed from pt due time limited...the lead start to rec and get this so called tag members joining in...we cant get kick that tag player right? unless that tag player dc...so no use that kind of tag option

So what indeed. If you're that paranoid, why even look for a replacement in the first place? Face it, they will NEVER implement a vote kick on online players, they have been adamant about that for 5 years because it can be abused. They are not going to change their stance. The tag system can't really be abused any more than the already implemented block system which they can't deny the effect of. It's also not complicated to add, They added the spam-list in just a week, this system is basically the same as the already existing two block lists so it wouldn't be that hard to code (the base is already there, just needs some fine-tuning).

 

The system would not be there for you or anyone else to be able to kick someone you don't like or for ANY other reason, it would be there so that you can warn yourself not to stay in group with that person. As I said, if the player is a recurring offender, he will eventually run out of players to leech from, and either they have to redeem their ways or see players leave or kick him the instant he joins a lobby. If everyone keeps leaving, he'll have to work even harder since he has to do everything on his own, imagine that on awakened necropolis or desolate tomb where it's pretty much impossible to solo even if you wanted to. If they could refine it so that you can't automatically be paired with someone on your lists, that would be awesome too, but that is a lot more to code than just adding the list. Give the players a tool to see people who have been toxic to you, and it would sort itself out in the end. Someone innocent would not be repeatedly left or kicked from lobby.

[newbiez]

paranoid? why even look for replacement? omg u really ask me that? of course ppl will look for replacement if have empty slot in party list =.=....since more ppl more dmg(basic stuff) and fast clearing the dungeon quest...who dont like fast clearing dungeon must be weirdo...block system is useless for this situation since we can still party up with them...they need to realize that this afk stuff is going too far now...if not ppl not gonna post about this stuff again and again....

[Yndril]

7 hours ago, newbiez said:

paranoid? why even look for replacement? omg u really ask me that? of course ppl will look for replacement if have empty slot in party list =.=....since more ppl more dmg(basic stuff) and fast clearing the dungeon quest...who dont like fast clearing dungeon must be weirdo...block system is useless for this situation since we can still party up with them...they need to realize that this afk stuff is going too far now...if not ppl not gonna post about this stuff again and again....

"omg, chances are that i'll be partied with this guy I once marked" like I said, if you're that paranoid, don't look for replacements, unless you're playing naryu foundry or naryu sanctum, a dungeon can easily be 5-manned in the current content with time to spare. If you're looking for replacements, be ready for the possibility. If you're not party leader, tough luck, it's his decision. You also don't know if that guy has improved his ways and stopped doing whatever made him get on your "bad list", people CAN change.

 

And they are already aware of the problem, but posts like this are just echoing the same thing "let us vote kick" which they have echoed back "no, it can be abused" (or just plainly ignored the posts since repeating yourself when you've made yourself clear is annoying). So instead of asking for the same thing that won't happen, at least TRY to come up with alternatives. Even if the alternatives won't fix the problem (neither would vote kick), they would at least IMPROVE the situation.

[newbiez]

im doubt those afkers and leecher will change...since seeing the same afkers being named at region chat in others dungeon....so how long we gonna wait for it if u said they already aware of the problem? some ppl said already a few months ppl keep on posting at forum about this and the reply they get is file a ticket =/