Erza Scarlet

Remove Raven weapons from 6vs6!

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Hi

I think you should remove Raven weapons from PVP, this weapon does an insane amount of damage and many people don't have the option to do endgame raids like Skyspire.

 

Remove it, its ruining the experience.

 

Thanks.

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They have introduced "PvP" defense and attack stats in last patch, but not already coded to work.

For now, you could use Galaxy Weapon to counter as much as you can these Raven whales. It works pretty well if you're good in arena.

Edited by Space Jesus

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1 hour ago, Space Jesus said:

They have introduced "PvP" defense and attack stats in last patch, but not already coded to work.

For now, you could use Galaxy Weapon to counter as much as you can these Raven whales. It works pretty well if you're good in arena.

Raven Weapon + Destiny Ring = Galaxy Destroyer.

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Khaen   

They need to put it into its own matchup group.

Galaxy weapon doesn't do anything when you're matched against 3-6 raven users in the opposite team. Had matches where all the other side did was spin.


Or at least take battlegrounds out of daily challenge. Its a joke and a mockery for lower AP and new characters.

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Lamae   

Raven patch and all patches after it shouldn't have happened until emperor can come with them.

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Khaen   
1 hour ago, hwalien said:

PVP is never fair.

Definitely not~
PVP is player vs player. However this is not player vs player.
At best it is character vs character, or stats vs stats. lol

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hwalien   

but I'm angry cus I have farm peaches!!!

Edited by hwalien

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48 minutes ago, Khaen said:

Definitely not~
PVP is player vs player. However this is not player vs player.
At best it is character vs character, or stats vs stats. lol

Thats why there is "Arena PVP" and "Open PVP aka Battleground".

 

No matter what pvp u play, if someone is better than you, or simply better geared, people cry and cry alot about it.

If u had a Raven Weapon, u wouldn't mind using it by yourself. If u are the enemy, u find it unfair. 

Get over it.

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Khaen   
19 minutes ago, FlockUndead said:

Thats why there is "Arena PVP" and "Open PVP aka Battleground".

 

No matter what pvp u play, if someone is better than you, or simply better geared, people cry and cry alot about it.

If u had a Raven Weapon, u wouldn't mind using it by yourself. If u are the enemy, u find it unfair. 

Get over it.

I'm afraid you are rather confused. I was agreeing with the fact that pvp is unequal; in terms of player skill, class and other variables.
 

Of course people will "cry" about losing, who wouldn't? The more resilient people will try again and gain more skill and acquire better gear. However when there isn't even a remote chance of winning, when a match is decided at the moment of entry, then you will have to admit there is something wrong with the system.

 

Sheep mentality and enablement is exactly what excuses and sustains such a dysfunction. But please, carry on. Your acid feeds my schadenfreude.

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6v6 isnt meant to be skillful in any way, sure it doesnt hurt if u actually know the basics of your class and what the enemy class is able to perform but its not compareable to Arena PVP.

Its just like Open World PVP, u know that there are people geared as hell and u still join.

As easy as it is, u take the risk and u'll get the risk to play against better geared persons.

6v6 will balance itself out after some time, high geared people will play at higher ranks and lower geared people (or people which still dont know what the heck pvp means) will be lower. 

 

Its like crying about PVP balance in the first 2 hours after maintance and Ladder reset, it makes no sense at all.

 

Also i dont know how u want to "remove raven weapons from the game", because u disadvantage people which actually farmed for it to do that damage. Its not working that u just remove that weapon, with what weapon should those players play then (lol ?) ?

 

 

Edited by FlockUndead

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FrozenB   
23 minutes ago, FlockUndead said:

6v6 isnt meant to be skillful in any way, sure it doesnt hurt if u actually know the basics of your class and what the enemy class is able to perform but its not compareable to Arena PVP.

Its just like Open World PVP, u know that there are people geared as hell and u still join.

As easy as it is, u take the risk and u'll get the risk to play against better geared persons.

6v6 will balance itself out after some time, high geared people will play at higher ranks and lower geared people (or people which still dont know what the heck pvp means) will be lower. 

 

Its like crying about PVP balance in the first 2 hours after maintance and Ladder reset, it makes no sense at all.

 

Also i dont know how u want to "remove raven weapons from the game", because u disadvantage people which actually farmed for it to do that damage. Its not working that u just remove that weapon, with what weapon should those players play then (lol ?) ?

 

 

There will always be raven players in silver rank. It doesn't matter if the battleground just resetted or not because if the raven players don't want to versus another raven players, they can derank themselves by either leaving in the beginning of the match or afking for the whole match, which will result in -60 elo rank. Some people do this on purpose so that they can farm battle points easily at lower level elo rank against players without good gears. When near the end of the season (usually a week before season ends), they just climb back up to the gold rank for seasonal rewards.

Edited by FrozenB

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You don't get it. Raven has multiplied DPS by x4 or even more. We have never seen this before this patch (and personnally never seen this in any MMORPG in 1 patch only).

As PvP gear has not evolved as this insane (PvE) DPS boost, even best defensive gear (meaning best PvP gear, 4K def, 3K crit def, 180K HP) won't protect you against these insane PvE damages, just because it's simply NOT balanced and defensive stats HAVE NOT EVOLVED.

 

The proof is here: even a full Raven PvE player cannot resist against another full Raven PvE player. He will be 100->0% HP in one Aerial just like other "mortals". The first who fires is the winner... It's stupid, it's even not PvP or something like that...

So the real problem is the huge DPS boost that Raven brings, it has broken any balance (PvE and Battleground, because the 60K DPS against the 200K DPS is not fair) and it's even not justified in PvE (we actually don't need all this DPS, even for the hardest dungeons).

The gap between Raven and others cannot be justified.

 

They have also introduced PvE Attack Power and PvP Attack Power balance stuffs, but it doesn't work and it is really needed for the sake of the balance. But, waiting for a proper fix, you can try 6v6 with a good PvP stuff (Galaxy Weapon, good PvP soulshields, good HP boost and, of course, PvP skills). I'm in this case and if I manage to not offer any burst window to my (Raven geared) enemy, I can beat him/her just by breaking its unfair PvE burst. Of course, I won't stay alive a long time against 2 Raven geared whales, but at least, I have NOT been a free prey and have got a chance to kill the enemy thanks to my PvP stuff that protected me from the 100->0% HP "problem".

 

In conclusion, it's just insane how Damage / Defense ratio is totally broken, caused by a non-justified PvE gear boost (I guess the purpose of this gear was to keep cash shoppers in the game, despite any respect for F2P or casual players who don't make poor servers running...)

 

EDIT: Oh, and I've forgotten something! Moonstones was the last chance for good PvP player to gold, because soulstones are too cheap now... If open PvP cannot guarantee this golding source, so PvPers are condamned to be poor for eternity.
What? You want to convert me to PvE only? No way. PvP has potential in BnS. If there is no more way to progress through it, there is no reason for PvP oriented people to play, excepted by staying 24/24h in arenas and forget forever all the PvE content. But I really hope that is not what the company wants...

Edited by Space Jesus

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FrozenB   
1 hour ago, Space Jesus said:

You don't get it. Raven has multiplied DPS by x4 or even more. We have never seen this before this patch (and personnally never seen this in any MMORPG in 1 patch only).

As PvP gear has not evolved as this insane (PvE) DPS boost, even best defensive gear (meaning best PvP gear, 4K def, 3K crit def, 180K HP) won't protect you against these insane PvE damages, just because it's simply NOT balanced and defensive stats HAVE NOT EVOLVED.

 

The proof is here: even a full Raven PvE player cannot resist against another full Raven PvE player. He will be 100->0% HP in one Aerial just like other "mortals". The first who fires is the winner... It's stupid, it's even not PvP or something like that...

So the real problem is the huge DPS boost that Raven brings, it has broken any balance (PvE and Battleground, because the 60K DPS against the 200K DPS is not fair) and it's even not justified in PvE (we actually don't need all this DPS, even for the hardest dungeons).

The gap between Raven and others cannot be justified.

 

They have also introduced PvE Attack Power and PvP Attack Power balance stuffs, but it doesn't work and it is really needed for the sake of the balance. But, waiting for a proper fix, you can try 6v6 with a good PvP stuff (Galaxy Weapon, good PvP soulshields, good HP boost and, of course, PvP skills). I'm in this case and if I manage to not offer any burst window to my (Raven geared) enemy, I can beat him/her just by breaking its unfair PvE burst. Of course, I won't stay alive a long time against 2 Raven geared whales, but at least, I have NOT been a free prey and have got a chance to kill the enemy thanks to my PvP stuff that protected me from the 100->0% HP "problem".

 

In conclusion, it's just insane how Damage / Defense ratio is totally broken, caused by a non-justified PvE gear boost (I guess the purpose of this gear was to keep cash shoppers in the game, despite any respect for F2P or casual players who don't make poor servers running...)

 

EDIT: Oh, and I've forgotten something! Moonstones was the last chance for good PvP player to gold, because soulstones are too cheap now... If open PvP cannot guarantee this golding source, so PvPers are condamned to be poor for eternity.
What? You want to convert me to PvE only? No way. PvP has potential in BnS. If there is no more way to progress through it, there is no reason for PvP oriented people to play, excepted by staying 24/24h in arenas and forget forever all the PvE content. But I really hope that is not what the company wants...

I think people mis-interpret this game as a pvp game. Yes, this game has pvp aspect and host pvp tournaments once in a while. However, in the end, it is still an MMORPG game in which you have to farm and level your characters.

 

If you want to just enjoy pvp in this game, you have arena, in which everything is equalized. So, in there you don't even need to farm golds or anything. On the other hand, battlefield and openWorld PVP is more for players to show their gears in addition to their skills. If you want to pvp there, then you need to gear up your characters. That's also the reason why the returns and extra income from these area should always be better to compensate for the time and money you spent to gear your character.

 

Imagine if they gave out moonstone box in equalized arena, gold farmer can farm moonstone in there and keep on selling them in market for golds and then sell the golds to the players. By that time, moonstone price will be as low as the soul-stone like what it is now.

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If I mis-interpret this game as a PvP game, so 6v6 and PvP gear is just a joke from the beginning? The cake is a lie? So, there are contents in this game which confirm what I think (there is PvE, PvP and mixed content), but I interpret badly the nature of this game which is not partially PvP oriented, if I read you... /PoharanConfusion

 

6v6 should be the perfect connexion between PvE and PvP, not a freak show, not a broken system that affords moonstones only for whales.

Just imagine a 6v6 only composed with Raven whales:

"- Hey, I 100-0 you!

-Hey, my turn!

-Now, my turn again!"

Clown festival. Typically something broken.

Of course, the "time" you spend training your skills in arena is just waste of time, because only PvE gear make difference for now.

Time spent in arena /= time spent in PvE

It was clear in the past, it's totally assumed today! What a shame, seriously.

 

I'm not hoping moonstone in arena, they are already in 6v6 and plains rewards. I just asking NCSoft to let casual and F2P players to have access to it. It's not meant to be a whale exclusivity. BTW, why the soulstones price has been lowered? Not because of arena... Think about it ;) Price of rewards from arena is more stable than rewards from PvE or Battleground... But there is no more rewards from arena (soulstones? lol.)

Edited by Space Jesus

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Karst   

Wow these arguments supporting Raven weapons are really, really bad. Sounds like players are exploiting this overpowered stuff and defending it against all reason because they don't want their crutch taken away. =O

 

There will never ever be a legitimate excuse for a weapon that lets you 100-0% other players in PvP. PvP is not about who shoots first wins, it's not about farming other players with no effort. If you're defending oneshotting in PvP, you are wrong.

Edited by Karst

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Why does PvPers cry about Raven? Simple: a PvE weapon that rule a PvP battleground.

 

Raven weapon  does not have any modification that dedicates for PvP - just pure raw elemental power that is unmitigated by nothing. No Defense, Critical Defense, Block/Evade, HP can help you against their Elemental damage. It makes PvP gears like Soul Shield, Galaxy weapon becomes meaningless. Why bother getting PvP gear when PvE carry you through the battleground much more effectively? Even Galaxy 12 is a joke against Raven + Destiny Ring.

 

Only thing that can go against Raven is Emperor. Since NCWest are throwing Galaxy fragments here and there as well as reduce upgrade cost of Galaxy weapon, maybe the time for Emperor to get released is not too far away. Upgrade your Galaxy to 12, getting 60,000 BP, waiting for its release and your revenge.

Edited by Alysha Hawkeye

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Inzho   

Curious but do you not realise the peolpe who have raven can easily get emperor once it is out? They will dominate regardless. My issue with 6v6 is that the teams are not balanced and to be honest its very hard to do. So I treat 6v6 like bad rng. I go in knowing that in every 10 battles I will likely get on the better team 2 of those ten times.

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It doesnt even matter if u got raven or not, defensive stats will never evolve that fast that u can balance out OP Badges or Buffs. 

Look at Korea , they have even more op weapons and u just see them kill each other with 1 hit.

 

As an example, i've seen a warlock lately which played with 3 piece Black Wind Soulshield. 1 Single Obliterate 1 shotted 3 people by doing 180k dmg through their defense.

This is not going to be changed anytime soon i guess.

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Shuchin   

I sort of agree there needs to be some fine tuning of the high Raven damage, but people seem to overlook that the new HM point system has also introduced a huge healing boost into the 6v6 scene with the 6% heal on iframe. This is boosted to 8.5% with proper vitality gear.

 

Currently, if you fail to 100->0 someone, it is entirely possible for them to heal up almost completely while your CC chain comes off cool down. This makes my KFM almost immortal vs non-Raven users at the moment, as I can heal 8%+ with every successful Q/E/SS or HM counter.

Edited by Shuchin

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KFM with Galaxy Weapon are immortals, indeed. I've seen some of them in 6v6. Currently, I just ignore them until someone Aerial it. But hey, if it's worse in Korea, as FlockUndead has mentioned, open PvP is just dead, killed by a bad stats management by devs.

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Lamae   
On 5/4/2017 at 6:06 PM, FrozenB said:

I think people mis-interpret this game as a pvp game. Yes, this game has pvp aspect and host pvp tournaments once in a while. However, in the end, it is still an MMORPG game in which you have to farm and level your characters.

 

If you want to just enjoy pvp in this game, you have arena, in which everything is equalized. So, in there you don't even need to farm golds or anything. On the other hand, battlefield and openWorld PVP is more for players to show their gears in addition to their skills. If you want to pvp there, then you need to gear up your characters. That's also the reason why the returns and extra income from these area should always be better to compensate for the time and money you spent to gear your character.

 

Imagine if they gave out moonstone box in equalized arena, gold farmer can farm moonstone in there and keep on selling them in market for golds and then sell the golds to the players. By that time, moonstone price will be as low as the soul-stone like what it is now.

heh? so the weapon you gain from actually doing battleground is worthless in battleground sounds fair. Great those who did battle ground and farmed it should go do pve barred in a "small army required" dungeon. You know back when its just the 3 types of legendary having a legendary weapon didn't mean sure win. 

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end game is not fun.. pvp finished with raven weapons . now i am searching  a new mmorpg.. pvp mechanics/system/dynamics is most important for me. So i left game after last update. I dont like pve.. I never saw any pvp event in game! Why? Because they know open world pvp is unbalaced!

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Meginb   

BGs died the moment True Soul came out, Raven gear just compounds the issue and turns off anyone even remotely interested in PvP just because they know they'll get 1-shot by some whale running around with both. Stats need to be equalized or PvE gear needs to be barred from being used at all in BGs and make PvP gear worth even bothering with. Keep PvP and PvE seperate.

Edited by Meginb
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FrozenB   
On 5/6/2017 at 1:03 PM, Lamae said:

heh? so the weapon you gain from actually doing battleground is worthless in battleground sounds fair. Great those who did battle ground and farmed it should go do pve barred in a "small army required" dungeon. You know back when its just the 3 types of legendary having a legendary weapon didn't mean sure win. 

You mean galaxy weapon? Well...galaxy weapon will evolve into emperor weapon, which is at the same level as raven weapon, but the bonus will focus on pvp aspect. It is just NCsoft bad decision to give out raven patch a lot earlier than emperor patch that makes a huge imbalance in battlefield right now. 

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