Alysha Hawkeye Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Main Summoner here. *What become better: For Earth: +Faster Photosynthesis stack with Petal Storm Toss. The skill also has Earth variant, which makes it benefit nicely from elemental damage boost. +Shorter duration of Nettle = less time to deliver full damage before boss move away. Also allow you to get out of combat faster. +PvP version of Sunflower = free Sunflower spam whenever you can CC your opponent. +Grasping Root can cause AoE Ivy Poison, which mean your Sunflower deal stronger damage on a group of mobs. Good for peach farming. For Wind: -Better focus regen with Crouching Tiger, and maybe Seed Shroud Move 2 if you're that desperate, greatly help to deal with the focus-starved nature of this build For both: -You can now trait out of forced taunt, have good focus regen with much shorter cooldown. -Surprise Gift is now 18s. It is a x2 Knockdown skill, so it is very nice. -Shorter-cooldown and more-useful Beckon. -Your Nettle has PvP version consolidated into it, so they are very dangerous to step on during PvP. This also make Spear General's rotation a joke, since the skill blocks defensive skills, thus blocks his deadly counter attack. *What become bad: -You can no longer shortern cooldown of Weed Whack. -Your root last only for 4s. It is good for Foundry Hard Mode, though. -F roll is changed from to 10m. This sounds good in PvP, but actually bad in some PvE situation. Fighting boss and F-roll will guarantee ranged punishment, such as Yunsang's grab. -Wind has Quick Kitty, Earth has Tough Kitty. They are the same thing: Just our old House Cat with some offensive stat buff. However, the buff is not very noticeable: every cat-related skills deal very weak damage, and Wind build suffers cuz you no longer have the 50% critical chance from Alley Cat for Wind Summoner to execute their double Ariel combo more reliably in Tower of Infinity. -You lose Beckon Knockback, which is very handy in Tower of Infinity and 6v6. -You lose the block-approach Lunge. -KaPoW! becomes even more useless since it is now only available on gripped/grappled enemy. And no one bother gives up their cat grab for this weak skill. *What I hope would become better in future: -F roll should have a choice between 7m and 10m version, similar to FM backdash. -More meaningful damage for cat-related skills. Who wants skill that have long cooldown but weak damage? At least make these skill based on Summoner's AP and offensive stat, like they are used to. -The return of Beckon Knockback. It is fun to send people flying away. -KaPow! should be the cat's Restraint skill, which spamable on Restraint target instead of a variant of your Cat Grab. +++ What about your class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkvard Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 warlock: actually almost no difference, but there are some worth mentioning - no wingstorm reset on resist with ss - focus regen sanctum removal - no hybrid wingstorm build blade master: more dps, but losing some threat buffs +higher DT speed means more DT can be dished out +daze and grab-escape tab got merged +new skills that available to use in draw stance +free hm z (soaring falcon) pull and stun into draw stance, now the hm version gives more bonus to it +9s cd and daze lightning rod combined into one -300% threat bonus buff cyclone removal -spammable blade strike removal means no more ez ToI blade dancer: they got some buffs and slight nerf +stellar buff, which is resettable lightning draw +able to use parry spin and party resist maelstorm consecutively unlike before +daze and grab-escape tab got merged +flash step on rmb for easier positioning against mobile bosses while in draw stance +knockdown and focus regen soaring falcon merged into one -non knockup version of take flight removal -no sundering sword means less focus regen for aoe clear, still can use soaring falcon for focus regen anyway i guess that's all that i can remember for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
next please Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 FM here. +Positive Heathwave is now on target position Automatic block daze on tab Changing beam into dragonchar while sb -Negative No more moving veil No double daze anymore And i kinda feel i have lost some healing on f, but i have to check this up tho. Don't play on ice, so i dunno the changes there exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightFer Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, Edyis said: FM here. +Positive Heathwave is now on target position Automatic block daze on tab Changing beam into dragonchar while sb -Negative No more moving veil No double daze anymore And i kinda feel i have lost some healing on f, but i have to check this up tho. Don't play on ice, so i dunno the changes there exactly. I can add here even more things since I play FM aswell: + Positive Fire -> Deflect fire tab combined Removed auto detonate LB Guard break on X available in pve Usage of blazing beam while awakened dragonchar is available while soulburn ! 16m range of dragonchar ! 16m range of Heatwave knockdown, you dont need to run to your target to cc it anymore, extremely strong in pvp Meteor and fire wall separated and fire wall usable during grab Removing fire orbits is considered a plus since you get the full buff right away Removing fire fury is considered a plus as well since your rotations becomes faster now => more dps Frost -> Max speed Ice Rain insta on hit with Impact Higher duration on Z is considered a plus since you can spam Ice Rain longer and you dont need to time the second a third hit of Z like before Snowball does more dmg and is actually useful now Frost Fury animation moved to RB stage2 skill in frost mode Overall more dps with frost build now - Negative Fire -> No more double daze on heatwave 12sec cooldown of Dragonblaze 18sec cd of Dual Dragon Frost -> 12sec cd of Dragonfrost Removed the projectile speed increase from Frost Palm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamae Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Kung fu master lost everything. tremor- lost swift strike damage bonus for wind and fire tremor lost searing blow damage bonus. In addition kick damage bonus used to be 35% not 20%. also doesn't pull as wide as before. Unable to mix fire with wind skills is disastrous comet strike wind is without argument better since it hits twice(each could be buffed). Iron shoulder- knocks back and dazes(could be disastrous in pve), with no way of specking it to not do so. straight jab fire doesn't have wind side equivalent- wind sides suck. Roaring tiger sucks. Leading palm better. Backstep (ss)- feels like it throws me way to far to use smite imediately. Shit I can go on and on ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ they ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ed up the game. I still wanna mix build. Destroyer: of course lost capability of mixing shadow and earth. for shadow: will power doesn't trigger wrath anymore. (nerfed as ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlacik Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 7 hours ago, arkvard said: blade master: more dps, but losing some threat buffs BM didn't lose threat buffs, they were just moved. The searing slash/lightning draw and lunar slash can be specced to give 30s threat buff. So now BM doesn't even need to think about keeping threat buff up, cause he uses those skills on CD anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkvard Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Dlacik said: BM didn't lose threat buffs, they were just moved. The searing slash/lightning draw and lunar slash can be specced to give 30s threat buff. So now BM doesn't even need to think about keeping threat buff up, cause he uses those skills on CD anyway. not to burst your bubble but that is 150% not 300% buff. there is no 300% threat buff anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlacik Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 @arkvard And there never was 300% threat buff anyway. Cyclone and raid used to give this 150% theat buff. But there is 300% extra threat (not buff) at five point strike and searing slash/lightning draw. This is unchanged for five point strike and got removed from non-threat version of searing slash, but it remains for the threat version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkvard Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Just now, Dlacik said: @arkvard And there never was 300% threat buff anyway. Cyclone and raid used to give this 150% theat buff. But there is 300% extra threat (not buff) at five point strike and searing slash/lightning draw. This is unchanged for five point strike and got removed from non-threat version of searing slash, but it remains for the threat version. before this patch cyclone mid spec gives 300% threat buff, well i don't have problem if it's gone anyway. no one does, well looks like you are pointing this maybe you have problem with it? easy... just get 8 msp and spam the 5 point strike so you won't lose aggro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yndril Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I could write an essay about the changes... but I'll try cover the major parts best I can. SF: Ice more damage on frost storm and new version that moves with the user. SF: Earth less punishing to not be behind the enemy, kingfist can be used 3 times in a row (compared to two times if first hit from behind). SF: Both Dragonfist got a major buff, but feels less rewarding to get 5 chi stacks and use kingfist/frost storm as it can only be used after Z now. FM: Fire No major changes, biggest change is that you no longer need to spec dragonchar if you want the powerful soulburn. FM: Ice Completely reworked, ice rain is now glacial beam and is only boosted by cold snap, which had it's duration increased to 10 seconds, frost palm can be changed to the relatively stronger frost fury (old F) that cost no focus. FM: Both No more double daze. The double stun no longer changes to frost stance. Double KD moved to fire Z. Dragonblaze and dragonfrost now have a 12 second cooldown, but you can now get frost and fire orbit from any move, just need to crit. frost and fire orbit now only have 1 stack. BD: Lightning Lightning draw is now resetable, all basic stance abilities have changed element to lightning and had their damage reduced. BD: Wind Reworked. Added wind surge to multislash, skyward slash and whirling scourge. During wind surge, sunder gives an extra wind focus and rolling typhoon is instant cast (much like it was during whirling scourge before patch). all badges that previously gave an extra wind focus on crit now does so on hit. All draw stance abilities have changed to wind and had their damage reduced (with the exception of flash step). BD: Both Sunder now gives wind/lightning focus on hit instead of on crit. take flight can no longer be specced to not knock up, and changed button to LMB in wind spec. The restrain ability of the other element has be removed. Flash step has been moved to RMB and replaced the 3 uses lightning strike. HM requirement for sunder has been swapped (so if you had chilling flame elixir, you now have the PvP version). KFM: Both No more hybrid specs whatsoever (no more leading palm in wind or enable searing palm on smite for fire for example). Shin kick moved to 2. New fire move (replace shin kick) on 3. Iron shoulder can no longer be specced to not knockback and daze. WL: Ice Heal wingstorm removed. No threat from bombardment removed. HM bombardment now gives 1 second CD reduction of dragoncall on crit. Target for Thralls claw removed. WL: Shadow Shorter CD wingstorm removed. New dimensional volley that gives 3 spectral orbs on delayed cast but deals much less damage. WL: Both Onrush now always have double stun. Taunt moved to Well of gravity. BM: Fire Dragontongue speed increased, damage decreased. 4 flicker in a row now gives 1 second conflagration. Not sure, but think blade echo was added with a 12 second cooldown, available on a critical flicker, gives 1 second conflagration. BM: Both Threat buff moved to lunar slash and lightning draw (and the fire counterpart). Five point strike triple damage-threat. Winged protector/sword shroud are now a separate skill and winged protector have a weaker non-HM version. Block can no longer be specced and parry block is removed, Added a new parry with 24 seconds cooldown usable during block. Sin: Shadow Shadow strike can now be used twice in a row. Sin: Lightning Shadow dash is now castable in melee too. Lightning pierce stacks 1 poison. Shadow strike now enters stealth. Sin: Both Venom strike is no longer an HM move. Swiftstep now always double daze (no KD anymore) Lightning Stride can no longer be specced to reset poison. Time bomb merged. Sum: Wind Base rosethorn now gives instant cast on use, HM gives increased attack speed. HM rumblebees now gives free instant cast in stealth (3 focus cost is non-HM now). HM weed whack now does additional damage on petal storm toss afflicted enemies. Sum: Earth A new Sunflower that does some less damage but refund focus on CCd targets (refund all focus with HM). Petal storm toss now gives 2 photsynthesis stacks per hit. HM sunflower now does extra damage to targets with ivy poison. Sum: Both Briar patch/Flying nettles merged, duration decreased (Damage the same). Weed whack now deals damage on it's own, can no longer root. House cat and Alley cat merged, takes more damage than House cat and lower crit than Alley cat. Non-HM seed shroud now gives overflow/ rumblebees buff. Des: Shadow Wrath deals more damage, Galeforce have reduced cooldown. Des: Both Smash is exclusive to Earth. Execute deals more damage but cannot be used in succession anymore, exclusive to shadow. Power slam no longer enable wrath. Not sure what changed with earth Des and lightning BM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstruck Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 When you see someone saying BM's got a dps increse... Are we playing the same game ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malign Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 RIP: FM wide dragonchar. You will be greatly missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karurosuda Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 On 4/24/2017 at 0:42 AM, arkvard said: warlock: actually almost no difference, but there are some worth mentioning - no wingstorm reset on resist with ss - focus regen sanctum removal - no hybrid wingstorm build We lost the iframe quell instant cast on dragoncall as well as our snare on SS, which are kinda important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ander01se Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Lots of classes got a minor / medium buff since you no longer need to dump 3-5 skill points into 2nd tier skills to make them useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amokk Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Most notable for me (Shadow Sin): No more melee dash for Shadow, it's lightning only now. Shadow has 5-16m range dash. 3 joint-CCs at once: Double KD (Landmine Z), double Daze (Swift Step F), double Stun (Spinal Tap LMB) Easier poison stacking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightFer Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 6 hours ago, Malign said: RIP: FM wide dragonchar. You will be greatly missed. We have been crying about this change for like 1 and a half years :D, best change with the increased range, who cares about how wide it hits :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amokk Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, Yndril said: How do you stack poison in shadow? it's too easy in lightning now (it's on your most main rotation), but I can't manage to do it in shadow... 3 (2 stacks) tab (2 stacks) 1 (stealth shadow drain, 1 stack) or, if 1 is on cooldown I use 3 (2 stacks) tab (2 stacks) X (1 stack) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yndril Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 2 hours ago, amokk said: Most notable for me (Shadow Sin): No more melee dash for Shadow, it's lightning only now. Shadow has 5-16m range dash. 3 joint-CCs at once: Double KD (Landmine Z), double Daze (Swift Step F), double Stun (Spinal Tap LMB) Easier poison stacking How do you stack poison in shadow? it's too easy in lightning now (it's on your most main rotation), but I can't manage to do it in shadow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yndril Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 45 minutes ago, amokk said: 3 (2 stacks) tab (2 stacks) 1 (stealth shadow drain, 1 stack) or, if 1 is on cooldown I use 3 (2 stacks) tab (2 stacks) X (1 stack) Oh, that's nice, have to try that out later, thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbiez Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 10 hours ago, Moonstruck said: When you see someone saying BM's got a dps increse... Are we playing the same game ? for low ping yes..its kinda buff for them but for high ping its a nerf for them xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaigame Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 No one mentioned the Aeriel attack that FM's lost, sure it was pants! Sure it did zero damage, but it was still fun to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstruck Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 1 hour ago, newbiez said: for low ping yes..its kinda buff for them but for high ping its a nerf for them xD I'm playing with around 100ms, and there's no buff at all dps-wise... I mean, we do 1 more Dragontongue, but the damage from Dragontongue is soo much lower than before... Our dps has been decreased by a lot (well, can't say it wasn't needed though since we saw what BMs were doing in pvp) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heike86 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Sin in pve got buffed overall, so specifically for pvp Good: Lotus kick long range and no req Timebomb resets poison AND has daze Mine aoe much bigger now Q has long range (at a cost) Bad: Lotus kick no more 3s stun Daze mine gone Q loses the 0.5s iframe after skill use No more 30s sleep, which was useful against sum cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamae Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 @Yndril you forgot that shadow wrath trigger whenever you gain "willpower" also when extending willpower. - in old destroyer patch. You forgot to say that blade master retained all the skills that would be considered "lightning" skills this is the same for blade dancer. You also forgot to say "Sin in pve got buffed overall." You also forgot to say that soon even the last 2 choices we can make will be gone. There is only 2 things that can happen to you now its either be stuck on the element of your choosing or be stuck on an element not of your choosing. Generally for a newer player what element drops for them will be the element they will use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yndril Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 50 minutes ago, Lamae said: @Yndril you forgot that shadow wrath trigger whenever you gain "willpower" also when extending willpower. - in old destroyer patch. You forgot to say that blade master retained all the skills that would be considered "lightning" skills this is the same for blade dancer. You also forgot to say "Sin in pve got buffed overall." You also forgot to say that soon even the last 2 choices we can make will be gone. There is only 2 things that can happen to you now its either be stuck on the element of your choosing or be stuck on an element not of your choosing. Generally for a newer player what element drops for them will be the element they will use. Didn't forget anything, Didn't know of wrath during willpower (least favourite class). Didn't know they changed typing of BM skills, actually thought five point strike was still lightning. And what the heck are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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