Kellin

People have no shame

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Bl4de   

And just to add, gear is last issue here, its about attitude. All this dungeons i was doing smooth when i was geared worse than average not-knowing-mech newbie nowdays. Atk limit is just only possible way to save myself of frustration in this grindy game :)

Edited by Bl4de

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hwalien   
11 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

I have such feeling too. Alot of those raven weapon users just look at how people fight trash mobs and only do something at main boss fights. It is so annoying to see how they think it is okay to leech off just because they have better gears. Just like many of them assume everyone else will do all the mechanics for them because they do the highest DPS.

im no raven user nor even using an legendary gears on most of my chars. but I do this when someone pulls away few mobs while im trying to pull them all together for aoe or when someone uses aoe KB after I've pull them all together. Im not chasing around every signal mob just because someone can't use their brain.

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Suldren   

Well the good thing about this is even those that are just at the cusp of what most players want for these dungeons they can get in and hopefully learn the mechanics before they fix the kick option. Lol, always trying to look at the bright side. :)

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37 minutes ago, hwalien said:

im no raven user nor even using an legendary gears on most of my chars. but I do this when someone pulls away few mobs while im trying to pull them all together for aoe or when someone uses aoe KB after I've pull them all together. Im not chasing around every signal mob just because someone can't use their brain.

I would say that's different from seeing that a person just won't touch any of the trash mobs even if he's the first to reach them.

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I would say the no kick is intentional, judging by the "tips" that show up on the loading screen. Would be nice if they fixed the character info page tho. I Don't like that it shows innacurate, lower stats...

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Nekonata   
12 hours ago, NightFer said:

There was never a kick function in F8 whatsoever. You either use party finder and get a good group OR you click LFP and deal with it. If you by any chance want a descent group, you make it yourself. You dont use LFP to make "good" groups :D

There always was a kick function in lobby, that's what people are talking about. The funny thing is you could kick even during pug matching, and that is bullshit to some extent. 

 

Most of the mechanics in low dungeons are skipped so you will never have a chance to learn them completely... and then you enter higher dungeons and expect the same 

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Bl4de   
11 minutes ago, Nekonata said:

Most of the mechanics in low dungeons are skipped so you will never have a chance to learn them completely... and then you enter higher dungeons and expect the same 

Yes, and now they are joining no-drive NF overkills, while rest of us had to learn to drive all four phases. So much about this event is useful for new people.

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Implement Hongmoon Level Requirement for Each dungeon or better yet, AP Requirements. Not Player Rules but Server Sided. Sorry but some low AP players might have no knowledge on dungenon mechanics and it will just going to ruin the runs for higher level dungeons. AP is also a vital role for finishing higher level dungeons. Lowbies have the time to progress and not rush through gameplay contents. In that way, they could just enjoy and appreciate what the game and storyline has to offer to such players.

Edited by OMEGAWEAPON

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FrozenB   
40 minutes ago, OMEGAWEAPON said:

Implement Hongmoon Level Requirement for Each dungeon or better yet, AP Requirements. Not Player Rules but Server Sided. Sorry but some low AP players might have no knowledge on dungenon mechanics and it will just going to ruin the runs for higher level dungeons. AP is also a vital role for finishing higher level dungeons. Lowbies have the time to progress and not rush through gameplay contents. In that way, they could just enjoy and appreciate what the game and storyline has to offer to such players.

Actually, NCsoft is doing opposite as what you suggest here. By looking at the reduction cost of the weapon and accessories upgrade path and instant level 50 +skipped 80% of the story line quests, they want new players to rush the content. The real sufferers would be the old players.

 

In their perspective, it is understand-able for them to do so because for old players, there is high chance that they will leave game 1 by 1 once they reached end game content with nothing to achieve. Without earning new players, this game will eventually be dead. So, the easier upgrade path and skipping storyline lines + leveling faster will lure the new players to play this game (maybe investing real money in this game too) so that they don't have to play the low level empty maps and dungeons by themselves. It is a way to earn profit from a game. However, the downside is that the company reputation will be going down-hill as the old players who left the game would be bashing on the company that they spent tons of real money for nothing (spent tons of cash for a year and then got caught up by a new player within couple months). This is another reason why I never spend a penny in online mmorpg game. After playing a same online game for a while (a couple years), the game is either dead/closed or has similar situation like this game.

Edited by FrozenB

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Naeza   

some of the comments here are horrible, have you not seen those notes in the loading screen where NCsoft said "everyone makes mistakes, don't berate your team mates". just shows how bad and toxic this community is that the company had to remind you this. you call them 'sucky players' or whatever, but you forget that not all first timer can get perfect run for the 1st time. i died in sogun maybe 5 times or more in the beginning until i can grasp the mechanic. no matter how many video's i watch or guides i read, experiencing them is a totally different thing for me. yes, i am a slow learner, but i do try to learn and improve myself. how do you expect them to learn the dungeon if they don't become shameless and join to learn the dungeons? never right? just let the higher geared ppl get higher and let the others stay low geared.

 

some of you may say 'join a clan', well PLOG ME because i had tried looking and join some clans, most of them become inactives, have high requirements,for alts, or don't speak english. i actually join an active clan once,but they only take their favorite ppl to the dungeons. when i ask them if they can take me,they say that they already did it or whatever reason, and they only speak among themselves, this happens a lot of time that i just left without telling anyone. i don't even know why they recruit me.

 

and also if looking for a clan is so easy, then why do YOU PUG?

i think people who leeched by AFKing with the intention itself or not even trying to do any work in the dungeons are the ones who are truly shameless. no matter what lvl and gear they have.

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Kellin   

I like how low gear people claim that they want to learn mech and  they deserve to run with exp players. Why don't you run with people who has same gear progression and spend a whole day in a dungeon? Go spend hours clearing Dt for example. And it's not beneficial for me to run with people who doesn't know mech.

 

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newbiez   
16 hours ago, Bl4de said:

Some comments here are ridiculous. I'm pugging F8 for a year now and I saw all possible kind of players and chances that high geared player will be bad doing mechanics are minimal, on other side low geared ones, unless alts, almost always sucks at doing mechanics. All that high geared people had to learn mechanic to do it much earlier when dungeons was coming out and when it was much more difficult. How do you think they got they gear after all?? For example i have like 450 tomb runs, I can do any role there with closed eyes! And yes I'm high geared now i didn't need anyone to tech me mechanics in dungeons, I was always learning my stuff before joining new dungeons, not expecting to be carried or not expecting someone wastes his time explaining me mechanics in dungeon itself when there are countless guides and videos on internet.

 

And about high AP requirements, its consequence of that game is getting much more friendly for new players to easy get high AP, without even learning to properly play they class, not to mention mechanics and experience with dungeons. I host pug parties in F8 often and its very simple, i put 650 atk requirement, get crap players, run don't goes smooth next time i will put 700. I don't really care about atk itself, its just most easy way to filter out ones who are just crap players. And yes, expect 900+ requirements when this bug gets fixed, revenge to all lazy arses and leachers that expect to be carried now :)

minimal? counter a lots high hm at ec that failed to do mech...example sum hm13 with leg acc good ss and stage 10 leg weapon that failed to stealth...and wl hm 12 with good leg eq but didnt know the mech at last boss when everyone need to stacked at the mid...and the funny part is they blame others when failed...

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Nekonata   
11 hours ago, Kellin said:

I like how low gear people claim that they want to learn mech and  they deserve to run with exp players. Why don't you run with people who has same gear progression and spend a whole day in a dungeon? Go spend hours clearing Dt for example. And it's not beneficial for me to run with people who doesn't know mech.

 

Deserve? I didn't hear that anywhere. However, it's a lot easier if at least 1 party member knows mechs so he can tell people what they are doing wrong (of course, expecting they have read guides), you know like a teacher-student system? We should have mentorship system implemented like in other mmos, people then actually look for someone to carry* lol.

 

"spend a whole day in dungeon" that isn't beneficial to anyone, not just you. That's the precise reason nobody will do it, except no-lifers. I mean, if you need whole day to clear 1 dungeon, it's obvious that that party isn't going anywhere.  

 

That's why you create premades with "know mech" tag. Nobody cares if that run was beneficial to you, they are there for themselves.

 

Ah this reminds me of good old nexus days - wipe a few times on the cc-boss, half of party leaves, recruit randoms, clear it like butter. It was usually the geared people that left.

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Kellin   
9 minutes ago, Nekonata said:

Deserve? I didn't hear that anywhere. However, it's a lot easier if at least 1 party member knows mechs so he can tell people what they are doing wrong (of course, expecting they have read guides), you know like a teacher-student system? We should have mentorship system implemented like in other mmos, people then actually look for someone to carry* lol.

 

"spend a whole day in dungeon" that isn't beneficial to anyone, not just you. That's the precise reason nobody will do it, except no-lifers. I mean, if you need whole day to clear 1 dungeon, it's obvious that that party isn't going anywhere.  

 

That's why you create premades with "know mech" tag. Nobody cares if that run was beneficial to you, they are there for themselves.

 

Ah this reminds me of good old nexus days - wipe a few times on the cc-boss, half of party leaves, recruit randoms, clear it like butter. It was usually the geared people that left.

Do we get rewards for mentor-student party system?

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hwalien   
16 hours ago, Naeza said:

"everyone makes mistakes, don't berate your team mates"

not flaming at you and yes people make mistakes I have no issue with that. but we have so many who walks into a instance with 0 knowledge expecting to be carried. that is not a mistake, that's just being lazy. i don't see them being any better than those afk leeches. i know there are people who says watching guide is cheating, but if you put it that was isn't learning instance from experienced player not cheating as well? 

 

if you want to learn the mech with no help from guide, make your own group with those who wants to do the same.

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Nekonata   
1 hour ago, Kellin said:

Do we get rewards for mentor-student party system?

As I said, it should be implemented. In other games it rewards exp and useful items, special costumes and such.

Right now, you get a batch of new players that could play that dungeon with you in the future while knowing mechanics -  who knows? Maybe you make a static with them. Some people also have the teacher's mentality and teaching is a rewards in itself. Some posts here talk about having fun in learning new dungeons too. If these are not your thing, nobody is forcing you to participate in mentor system anyways.  

Edited by Nekonata

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Nearly max gear Destroyer here. And ill share some of my experinces doing F8 and using LFP. 

1- People joining content that is way out of reach for them is making those of us that actually can do it frustrated.

2- Joining rooms that have a requirement in place is like bidding on loot out of mandate when you werent the one that offered your scale/orb

3- At the very least watch videos on stuff. (note)

4- Just because someone severly outgears you doesnt mean you have the option to be lazy and just watch them kill everything (note2)

5- Do not fight with people if you mistakely join a room or relized you do not make the cut to be in there

 

Note: Summ and FM join my friends and I in HM foundry. Neither has done it before, nor do they know any mechs about it. We wiped once and asked if either could root, since we did not have a legit tank and myself (des) was dps tanking it. My BD friend was driving since we knew we couldnt pull off a no-drive, and was also the marker since the Summ and FM decided standing inside the track was the best place...also neither one of them survived the fight since they were both well under 85k hp.

 

Note2: Foundry HM, random FM joins, requirement was HM12+, he was HM10, we asked him to leave. He said hes geared enough and probly out gears the rest of us. We told him that didnt matter to us (gear) and that we are asking for HM12+ and he did not meet that, we argued for about a solid 2 mins before he just left. Looked him up on F2 (gear only) had Leg Neck and Leg wep stage 2, nothing else of merit. 3 of us have raven wep, full shields, crit or better souls and leg pets. 

 

TLDR: Just because you can join any party and not get kicked doesnt mean you should, respect others and eventually you will be the one carrying people. Learn mechs prior to trying stuff out, youtube is great for that, and plz just read.

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Kellin   
2 hours ago, Duriensbane said:

Nearly max gear Destroyer here. And ill share some of my experinces doing F8 and using LFP. 

1- People joining content that is way out of reach for them is making those of us that actually can do it frustrated.

2- Joining rooms that have a requirement in place is like bidding on loot out of mandate when you werent the one that offered your scale/orb

3- At the very least watch videos on stuff. (note)

4- Just because someone severly outgears you doesnt mean you have the option to be lazy and just watch them kill everything (note2)

5- Do not fight with people if you mistakely join a room or relized you do not make the cut to be in there

 

Note: Summ and FM join my friends and I in HM foundry. Neither has done it before, nor do they know any mechs about it. We wiped once and asked if either could root, since we did not have a legit tank and myself (des) was dps tanking it. My BD friend was driving since we knew we couldnt pull off a no-drive, and was also the marker since the Summ and FM decided standing inside the track was the best place...also neither one of them survived the fight since they were both well under 85k hp.

 

Note2: Foundry HM, random FM joins, requirement was HM12+, he was HM10, we asked him to leave. He said hes geared enough and probly out gears the rest of us. We told him that didnt matter to us (gear) and that we are asking for HM12+ and he did not meet that, we argued for about a solid 2 mins before he just left. Looked him up on F2 (gear only) had Leg Neck and Leg wep stage 2, nothing else of merit. 3 of us have raven wep, full shields, crit or better souls and leg pets. 

 

TLDR: Just because you can join any party and not get kicked doesnt mean you should, respect others and eventually you will be the one carrying people. Learn mechs prior to trying stuff out, youtube is great for that, and plz just read.

Amen

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Joezilla   

cVMl5

http://imgur.com/a/cVMl5

Why we need the option to kick players, not just when they're offline...

I'd rather carry a new player that will try, than a lazy .... yeah... that contributes nothing in the dungeon (imho).

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On 2017-04-20 at 4:13 AM, Kellin said:

joing hard dungeons in f8 with low gear and no knowledge about mech. How is this problem gonna be persist or is this no kick policy is actually implemented?

Good thing i have friends group so i do all purple quests with them. :) But yeah NCWest doesnt care about us they should have fix it in a hot fix but yeah they dong give af bout us. And i garuantee 95% they will not fix it they will make it like in Taiwan.

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i tried using my alt sin on cross server 654base ap hm6. they laugh at me cause i was hm6 and wanna do desolate tomb, i already clear deso alot of times on my main so i know mech but they assume i didnt know cause i was a HM6 .. people nowadays depend too much on hm lvl.. people with 600ap base but hm11 asking for hm11 for a normal deso. not all people that high hm lvl know mech, and not all whales know mech. i know some of u already pt with someone like that. the kick bug and hm point system ruin cross server they dont trust people with lower hm lvl. they assume u got no brain cause ur not a hm10+++ now i stop doin cross server and just go with clan people on cross server become super choosy and dont even ask if u know mech they just laugh at u and tell u immediately to leave. 

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Kisagii   
1 hour ago, Kazuomaruo said:

i tried using my alt sin on cross server 654base ap hm6. they laugh at me cause i was hm6 and wanna do desolate tomb, i already clear deso alot of times on my main so i know mech but they assume i didnt know cause i was a HM6 .. people nowadays depend too much on hm lvl.. people with 600ap base but hm11 asking for hm11 for a normal deso. not all people that high hm lvl know mech, and not all whales know mech. i know some of u already pt with someone like that. the kick bug and hm point system ruin cross server they dont trust people with lower hm lvl. they assume u got no brain cause ur not a hm10+++ now i stop doin cross server and just go with clan people on cross server become super choosy and dont even ask if u know mech they just laugh at u and tell u immediately to leave. 

I have the same problem too. My sin alt has 676 base ap and wanted to do EC and the guy wanted me to leave because they wanted hm 11 people only, but my alt was more geared than some of them. So after they all left I simply made my own party with no requirements and had no problems whatsoever.

 

i think the whole recruiting for hm level and ap thing is stupid. 

Edited by Kisagii

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Bl4de   
On 4/21/2017 at 9:32 AM, newbiez said:

minimal? counter a lots high hm at ec that failed to do mech...example sum hm13 with leg acc good ss and stage 10 leg weapon that failed to stealth...and wl hm 12 with good leg eq but didnt know the mech at last boss when everyone need to stacked at the mid...and the funny part is they blame others when failed...

Nothing to counter, I don't know where you finding those but i don't see them. And trust me I have been probably pugging F8 10x more than you ;)

 

One stealth fail does not tell anything, could be simple lag or game freeze for some seconds. Good geared WL was probably expecting newbies around to be smart enough to let him get mark so he can dps, his fault not being careful and trusting in newbies ;)

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Bl4de   
On 4/22/2017 at 0:14 PM, Kisagii said:

I have the same problem too. My sin alt has 676 base ap and wanted to do EC and the guy wanted me to leave because they wanted hm 11 people only, but my alt was more geared than some of them. So after they all left I simply made my own party with no requirements and had no problems whatsoever.

 

i think the whole recruiting for hm level and ap thing is stupid. 

Everyone should have right to chose how and with whom will be playing, and none should feel butthurted about it. Its not on you to judge others people reasons, just leave and find/make appropriate group that wants you.

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FrozenB   

Yes, it is really lame to see HM12/13 players who doesn't know mech in DT and failed to stealth in EC Normal Mode.

 

Also, for foundry nerf, I don't know if it is a good thing or not. The first boss flower phases nerf'ed down to 2 phases, in which people have to dps him down to 70% by brutal forces. Without SB/BB buffs, it takes ages to do so when the party's DPS is only average. Every time I run the normal mode foundry, my weapon durability always lost 50-60% whereas if I run hard mode foundry, my weapon durability only lost around 15-25%.

 

It is the same for DT, old people got used to do mechanics at 90%, 60%, and 30%. Now, with normal mode, it switches to 70% and 30%. When new players got used to the normal mode, they would screw up mechanic in hard mode because in hard mode, the mechanics are at 90%, 60%, and 30%. To be honest, they shouldn't change the mechanics phases, they should just nerf down the boss hp and damage only.

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