Frost build on new skill system

[sephy Kun]

So how exactly will it be played in the next patch?  

 

 

 

[ToffyNexy]

Same. Cold snap and spam Glacial Beam (Ice Rain/2). When cold snap on cooldown, you use LMB >> RMB >> 2 rotation till Cold snap back up.

[Zedonia]

I have to test it a bit because of cd resets but I would use the chokma mystic badge for extra meteor damage even with frost build.

 

So for the rotation its something new:

 

X (instant) -> V -> Z -> 2 spam -> F (dual dragon) -> LB/RB/2 spam

 

With leg. bracelet we must use dual dragon before Z.

 

With many cd resets it might be pretty good but overall I still see a problem because of the high downtime of cold snap. Without the chokma badge we would lose even more damage. It will become a bit better when we can combine badges but until then fire should still be better unless you got more than one frost FM in the group for alternate cold snap.

 

The changed cold snap badge is needed to make up for the buffed blazing beam. But frost build now loses the possibility for double inferno and double meteor what is a huge dps loss compared to burn build. Frost might become even worse atleast until we can combine badges.

[sephy Kun]

1 hour ago, Zedonia said:

I have to test it a bit because of cd resets but I would use the chokma mystic badge for extra meteor damage even with frost build.

 

So for the rotation its something new:

 

X (instant) -> V -> Z -> 2 spam -> F (dual dragon) -> LB/RB/2 spam

 

With leg. bracelet we must use dual dragon before Z.

 

With many cd resets it might be pretty good but overall I still see a problem because of the high downtime of cold snap. Without the chokma badge we would lose even more damage. It will become a bit better when we can combine badges but until then fire should still be better unless you got more than one frost FM in the group for alternate cold snap.

 

The changed cold snap badge is needed to make up for the buffed blazing beam. But frost build now loses the possibility for double inferno and double meteor what is a huge dps loss compared to burn build. Frost might become even worse atleast until we can combine badges.

Why get the metoer shower mystic badge instead of the snowball badge? They both deal the same damage o.o 

[sephy Kun]

I think it's even better to get the dual dragon mystic badge

It'll make the downtime of cold snap drop to 4 seconds or something

But i don't know how frequent the skill resets will be

[sephy Kun]

It might go something like this

Rb>dragonfrost>inferno>lb+rb>meteor suower>dual dragons>Z>spam2>snowball>1>dragonfrost>lb+rb+2>dual dragons>lb+rb+2>Z>spam2 and repeat

This is using the DD mystic badge

Maybe there's a more optimal rotation idk

[Zedonia]

1 hour ago, sephy Kun said:

Why get the metoer shower mystic badge instead of the snowball badge? They both deal the same damage o.o 

Oh, thats true. I thought it was 1000% extra damage. Then this one of course for frost build.

46 minutes ago, sephy Kun said:

I think it's even better to get the dual dragon mystic badge

It'll make the downtime of cold snap drop to 4 seconds or something

I dont know about that. With the DD badge you will lose the damage on snowball and thats not tiny damage. Not sure if 8s makes up for that especially with raven weapon and the many resets you will have. And you cant reduce the cooldown of cold snap that much after the patch. The cold snap badge is definitely the best so you cant use the snowball badge to reduce the cooldown. With DD badge you can reduce the cooldown (after spamming 2 ended) to 10s (you must put DD after your first Z in your rotation). After all, even 10s seems not too bad.

 

I think the rotation could be:

lb>inferno>meteor>z>dual dragon>snowball>spam2>1>dragonfrost>lb+rb+2>dual dragons>snowball>lb+rb+2>Z>spam2 and repeat

 

Some LB/RB between of course. How it will be exactly is not absolutely clear for me now because of the new cooldowns and so on but I will test it. Unfortunately I wont be able to effort all that badges very soon (at least both chokma badges) but after some time I will try it for sure (unless ping spikes high than you can forget it^^).

[sephy Kun]

1 hour ago, Zedonia said:

I dont know about that. With the DD badge you will lose the damage on snowball and thats not tiny damage. Not sure if 8s makes up for that especially with raven weapon

well it's true that raven weapon will definitely make a difference and it's hard to take it into account. only way to find out is by testing it in a long fight

 

but the thing about snowball's badge is that you won't get the 30x ap damage increase unless it's used with cold snap. and if you have raven weapon you get more damage than the badge gives if you just spam 2, so it just might be better to use DD instead. the downtime will be similar since you won't be using SB with CS and then resetting SB with impact but the damage will be better

edit: if you have good ping you probably get more damage out of spamming 2 even without raven weapon

 

edit 2 : i didn't take into account that ice rain will be included in the global CD or not, if it is then IMO DD cd reduction will be better, if not then yeah snow ball is better since you can ani-cancel in that case

[Southwind]

Well ice build was something good if You wanted to try something else than "left right 2", but now, when fire build will be boosted AF, and when You have to choose element and spend thousands of gold on the elemental acc from BT, farm ToI and peaches for soul&mystic badge, there is really no room for frost build imho, unless you are ok with staying behind.

 

BTW @Zedonia gf yesterday :p

 

 

[Zedonia]

52 minutes ago, Southwind said:

when You have to choose element and spend thousands of gold on the elemental acc from BT

Especially this. Badges will come sooner or later but additional accs costs too much to just "test something else". Well, we will have a time later without new content for a while and then we can get everything without limit our gear progress, I guess.

1 hour ago, Southwind said:

BTW @Zedonia gf yesterday :p

Nah, I don't think anything I do there is good at all. I just can't get into that strange pvp system with all that resists and blocks and cc and the general imbalance. Just doing it to reach gold before season ends. As FM I really feel like an support damage class there because alone you simply won't get anything geared down. And then weaker people blame you for being carried by gear. Wow, because of raven stage 1? Sure, because FM stands there the whole match spamming 2 while the enemy is doing nothing... Just not the kind of PVP I prefer. But nice that you remembered my name. I'm sorry but I don't think your character has the same name like you have here (or I just didn't noticed it).

[Southwind]

@Zedonia My ingame name is different, i'm only FM on the opposite side (on this screen), i've made slightly less dmg than You but i don't have raven and crit soul yet, only balefull stage 8 and stage 7 soul :) Overall Your team had 100 more AP than our, and better gear, but obviously not everybody there was good at pvp, and you couldn't carry whole pt, its not bronze. Have a nice day :)

[Zedonia]

After testing a lot and using both builds I can say that both build are almost equal currently. I dont have the cold snap badge yet but even without it frost doesnt stay much behind. The badge will boost glacial beam by a lot and also solves the dragonfrost problem (because it has no good point in the rotation sometimes). I use the dual dragon mystic badge for frost to reduce the cd of Z. It works pretty good and I dont think the snowball badge would be more useful. The main dps is glacial beam and snowball is also only a filler. You also lose a second of 2 spam if you have to use snowball during cold snap. Having more cold snap uptime is better, I think.

 

For fair testing, I took out the inferno badge on fire build because I dont have the cold snap badge and the inferno badge is useless in frost build for me because of the weapon cd resets. With raven weapon 3, no bt accs and fire/ice earring I can hit around 92k dps and in frost build around 89k dps. Target was Sacred Longgui in training room.

 

Fire rotation is definitely easier but it's not really better anymore. For very short fights fire is still top because of double inferno and double meteor but in longer fights, ice is not really worse. With combined badges later frost will be even better because snowball will reduce the cooldown of coldsnap aswell. Together with the cold snap badge that will be a huge dps boost.

 

The dps of both builds is of course effected by raven weapon because it buffsfrost more than fire. And with higher stages it prefers frost. The new bracelet should be better for fire because of the uptime but I have to test it first to decide if it's that much better. A big point for frost build is that you usually do more hits so more weapon proccs and that means more AP (raven effect) and more resets.

 

Ok, wall of text, but that's my impressions from frost build now. I really like it and if you see anyone who says frost does no damage, ignore it, it's not true.

[sephy Kun]

Yup it's really great. and the dual dragon cd reduction is very useful

But im not sure which is better in higher gear though

[Half]

5 hours ago, Zedonia said:

Ok, wall of text, but that's my impressions from frost build now. I really like it and if you see anyone who says frost does no damage, ignore it, it's not true.

Funny to see this text by now. As a person who mastered the old build I can tell you the new one makes not more damage. All the additional damage cames from additional AP. But people can master the new build without alot of training, so all people can do max damage after few seconds on dummies. Also new frost build is less ping depend compared to the old one and there're less lag spikes by now.

Btw raven soul shield should be still worse then msp or the 3rd legendary pve ss, because the buff of Ice Rain was even in old build very strong (and now even stronger, because of LMB/RMB/Ice Rain rota).

[sephy Kun]

MSP is probably better for frost than BT yeah

[Zedonia]

7 hours ago, Half said:

As a person who mastered the old build

Without any proofs until you quit...

7 hours ago, Half said:

the new one makes not more damage

It does. Frost Fury alone is a great buff now and supports the glacial beam buff even more. Thats why you lose very small damage in LB/RB/2 rotation now compared to fire build. It was much worse pre patch. For the ss nothing changed. MSP is better for frost build and even on fire build you always used the 3 pieces set effect even if you have BT ss.

 

I know many people underestimate frost build and it was understandable pre patch. Now many people still do it because they never tried it. But you simply cant say that it was not worse before.

[Half]

On 15.4.2017 at 5:15 PM, Zedonia said:

Without any proofs until you quit...

I proofed it many month in dungeons, toi and I gave tips to other players who became very strong after it. I proofed it to very much people, but the forum is a place nobody trust me without video ... but my pc is to weak to record something. ^^ I mastered frost FM and lightning Sin, but not the other speccs (even if I could ... I had not enough practice) or KFM (lvl 50 too). There's a question you could ask frost FMs to know if he mastered frost or he does not: "How long is the longest burst duration of frost FM without cd reset?" Even frost FM player answer normaly: "15s if you put Cold Snap perfectly". But that's wrong, so you know they don't know every important mechanic. 25s is the answer btw.

On 15.4.2017 at 5:15 PM, Zedonia said:

It does.

Ice Rain is slower now, even with Cold Snap. Cold Snap has a 10s duration and you can't use it multiple times. So boss jumps out of Cold Snap -> burst phase lost. Also the 2s delay of old Ice Rain could help you to do more Damage. Asura was immune against projectiles? Just start Ice Rain 2s befor stopped being immune -> +2s damage time. Frost Fury is not as strong as you think. The old Frost Palm did nearly same damage (only in frost specc!). [1] stage 4 did little bit less damage compared to new Ice Rain and old Cold Snap did nearly no damage. I think on dummy the new specc does little bit more damage, but the old one was better designed for complex boss fights. 3 days ago I did Asura and Zakhan. I compared befor and after in those dungeons and so I said old build was not worse. Ofcourse I did more damage with new build, but my FM got a huge AP boost with this update.

 

Sorry that I cannot say more detailed things. BnS is not installed anymore, so I can't say exact damage numbers of the skills to compare with the old skills.

[sephy Kun]

I think you'd have to be very biased to claim the old build was on par with the new build, that's just false, plain and simple. 

 

The 2 seconds delay didn't give 2 seconds of ice rain, you're forgetting that you lost 2 seconds worth of damage when you were charging it

 

Frost fury is 4.5x ap, the old frost palm had 3.5xap if i recall correctly.

Flame palm also had 1.2xap while it has 3.2x ap now, 5x ap if you have flame build FMs in party. 

With raven weapon glacial beam is infinitely better than frost impact 

 

You're also forgetting about the magnum badge, which gives 3x ap to the new ice rain

 

Edit: the old build also had some pretty major flaws, for example it wasn't usable on acrimor

[Half]

10 hours ago, sephy Kun said:

The 2 seconds delay didn't give 2 seconds of ice rain, you're forgetting that you lost 2 seconds worth of damage when you were charging it

You haven't understand me correctly. While other people cannot attack (boss is in immune phase), frost FM can start damage. 2s later it hits boss and if you time it well, he's not immune anymore when Ice Rain hits the boss. After the burst phase you stop casting Ice Rain and use you normal rotation. Here you will do 2 rotations at the same time - Ice Rain + LMB/RMB/other skill. So here you will earn the additional damage of 2 seconds. Normaly you get the dps back you lost befor when start casting Ice Rain, but while boss is immune you don't loose dps compared to other classes, so it's just a 2s dps increase.

10 hours ago, sephy Kun said:

Frost fury is 4.5x ap, the old frost palm had 3.5xap if i recall correctly.

That's something I cannot check anymore by now. But even if: that's not a huge bonus.

10 hours ago, sephy Kun said:

With raven weapon glacial beam is infinitely better than frost impact 

I never had raven, but if I am right the raven effect give a frost elementary damage bonus after using Ice Rain for x seconds? So every frost skill is buffed after using Ice Rain. After burst phase you also could use from time to time 1x Ice Rain to buff all skills - thats just a very little dps loose. But I also heard from another player that raven weapon resets all skills so fast, that old Cold Snap has a 90% uptime or something like that. Impossible with new Cold Snap (old build had 15s time to get reset, new one has 10s to get perma burst phase). That would make the old build stronger (and also boring).

 

But if I am right again: with skilling in damage instead of defense you will earn elementary damage, right? So FM (build doesn't care) is buffed with raven weapon even more then befor. But if we just want to compare both builds, we have to ignore additional stats like this.

11 hours ago, sephy Kun said:

You're also forgetting about the magnum badge, which gives 3x ap to the new ice rain

That we have also to ignore if you want to compare the builds. You cannot compare with something that never exist on old build.

11 hours ago, sephy Kun said:

Edit: the old build also had some pretty major flaws, for example it wasn't usable on acrimor

It was able to use, but root doesn't work every time (50% maybe). But I also could be mark, so no need to respecc. Also (with dps loose) you could use an alternative frost specc with frost fury instead of Impact. Then you have to use Ice Rain after the jumps and you don't root the boss at the wrong time. Acrimor was a fail in boss design (I think that happens because 98% or 99% of people were playing burning build). So it was useable, but you're right, for this boss the new build is much better.

 

 

At least it doesn't care for me which skill is better in damage. For me it just care  which build made more fun. Even if the old build was really lower, why they never buffed 1 skill a little bit with 1x or 2x additional AP damage? (no need in my opinion) A buffed Impact (when frozen!) wouldn't affect pvp so much (just usefull against other FMs or WLs).