[Questions] About KFM and BM

[Hirune]

Hi.

 

I haven't played this game for almost 1 year and now I'm back em decided to start from 0.

 

I like to tank, so will play with KFM or BM, but I don't know which one you be better for me to play because of my latency (around 200ms).

 

PvP... I guess both need to have a really good ping, but what about PvE? Which class rely less on a good ping to at least be average.

[csisy]

You will hear different point of views, mine is:

- KFM wind build needs constant animation cancelling which is harder with higher ping

- KFM fire build can be played without anicancel so it's worth a try

- BM lightning build is pretty useless (at least in PvE, compared to fire build)

- BM fire build is about spamming LMB/RMB. If you have higher latency you will likely hit 1 less RMB per Tab but definetly playable.

 

So I think it's your personal choice which one is the better for you. :) (As a side note, the KFM rotations are harder than BM's, you have to press way more buttons, more frequently :D)

[Shuchin]

KFM Fire build is pretty viable for PvE (it sometimes seems as if the DEVs think fire is PvE and wind is PvP for KFM, but there are actually pretty decent wind PvE builds too), and it will get a decent boost with the new skill system at 04/12 too.

 

One advantage for tanking with bad ping as KFM is that you get 1 second resist on dodges, not just the fraction of the second that you actually move, which can be very helpful with boss red area attacks.

 

Currently threat generation of KFM is inferior to BM so you have a hard time holding aggro, but that will be fixed with 300% threat comet strike in the new patch. ^_^

[csisy]

In the current patch the KFM has better threat skills than BM :P However the 4/12 patch will boost the BM's aggro generation. The Tab is used very often and it will activate the 150% threat for 30 seconds. But you can hold aggro with KFM as well, 150% threat is a lot, you have to be extremely undergeared to lose aggro.

 

Anyway, I like the fire KFM and the Q/E is amazing as Shuchin said, however the BM has (way) more iframe and also has a (currently HM skill) party iframe. AFAIK the HM block will be available for every BM without HM skill. Oh, and it has a self-protect stage/move when the BM has 3 seconds of resist.

 

https://bnstree.com/skill/BM

https://bnstree.com/skill/KFM

 

You should check the skills, watch youtube videos and choose what you prefer. :)

[Hirune]

Thank you all.

 

After everything, I decided to go with BM.

As a main tank in every game, I think that the defensive abilities of BM will suit me better.

[Shuchin]

Happy we could help you decide, Hirune. :)

 

Csisy, I cannot see how KFM threat generation is superior at the moment. Cyclone basically provides 150% threat non-stop. Lightning Draw for an extra 300% threat attack. And higher dps in general. :P

[Dlacik]

18 hours ago, Hirune said:

As a main tank in every game, I think that the defensive abilities of BM will suit me better.

Just one warning. Tanking in BnS is little bit different from what you might be used to from other games.

 

31 minutes ago, Shuchin said:

Csisy, I cannot see how KFM threat generation is superior at the moment. Cyclone basically provides 150% threat non-stop. Lightning Draw for an extra 300% threat attack. And higher dps in general. :P

You've forgotten another 300% threat spike on five point strike and the fact, that BM can keep up the threat buff without even leaving draw stance by using raid (9s CD and gives 10s threat buff).

[SauronTheGreat]

 Don't also forget Bm dps is somewhere between first three, if not first at the moment, kfm dps is the lowest after destroyer. I don't like making a dps list out of classes, since it may pop up a dead end discussion. But, i can claim the dps difference between kfm and bm is day and night.

 It may make you think that kfm would be better tank than bm, since it deals way less damage. But that's not quite true. I always feel safer when a bm tanking, feels much more reliable. Also agree with Dlacik, tanking, buffing, healing are nothing like other games here. You are still required to dps even if you want to undertake a tanking, healing, buffing role. I hope they don't change the way it is now. I 've had enough of those meta-locked games.

[Hirune]

13 hours ago, Dlacik said:

Just one warning. Tanking in BnS is little bit different from what you might be used to from other games.

 

12 hours ago, SauronTheGreat said:

 Also agree with Dlacik, tanking, buffing, healing are nothing like other games here. You are still required to dps even if you want to undertake a tanking, healing, buffing role. I hope they don't change the way it is now. I 've had enough of those meta-locked games.

It's more dynamic, right?

 

That's good. I like to tank, but I dislike when all I have to do is stay in one place and just block and spam a roar-type skill.

What I like about tanking is the control over the battlefield and, the usually, higher durability of tank classes.

[SauronTheGreat]

9 minutes ago, Hirune said:

 

It's more dynamic, right?

 

That's good. I like to tank, but I dislike when all I have to do is stay in one place and just block and spam a roar-type skill.

What I like about tanking is the control over the battlefield and, the usually, higher durability of tank classes.

 Way more dynamic, completely different. It wouldn't be the most-played class otherwise.

[csisy]

20 hours ago, Shuchin said:

Happy we could help you decide, Hirune. :)

 

Csisy, I cannot see how KFM threat generation is superior at the moment. Cyclone basically provides 150% threat non-stop. Lightning Draw for an extra 300% threat attack. And higher dps in general. :P

The 300% threat from attack is not a constant thing, it's just a spike. The Cyclone is barely used. The main goal of a BM is staying in draw stance. Cyclone is used after a block which switches to basic stance. The only available threat skill is the Raid.

 

While the KFM has: 

- Tab (5s)

- RMB (15s)

- Counter (30s)

 

But as I said, the tanking is doable with both class and yea... currently the BM has one of the highest DPS but it will be nerfed so hard, and I'm not happy with that :(

 

Edit:

Oh, and I don't think that the KFM's DPS is the lowest, it's not that bad if you know what to do but definetly not that high as the BM's. As a KFM you have to spam a lot of think, maintain searing palm stacks, etc. But at least the KFM has BB. :P

[SadFace]

4 hours ago, csisy said:

But as I said, the tanking is doable with both class and yea... currently the BM has one of the highest DPS but it will be nerfed so hard, and I'm not happy with that :(

Why do you think it will get nerfed?
Also i think KFM is not that great as dps or tank because he also have blue buff. So KFM is not a pure tank but a merge of tank and support.

[csisy]

3 hours ago, SadFace said:

Why do you think it will get nerfed?
Also i think KFM is not that great as dps or tank because he also have blue buff. So KFM is not a pure tank but a merge of tank and support.

Now the Dragontongue's AP ratios are:
- 7,5 base

- 4,0 crit

- 1,0 conflagration

 

After the patch:

- 5,5 base

- 3,2 crit

- 1,0 conflagration

[Dlacik]

On 31. 3. 2017 at 0:55 AM, Hirune said:

It's more dynamic, right?

Well, that's true but it's not what i meant.

 

In standard trinity-based mmorpgs (with tank-heal-dps roles). Tanking means accepting most of boss attacks while healers keep you alive. To do that tanks sacrifice their dps to be more tough so they can survive hits from bosses.

 

As a tank in BnS you still want to force boss to attack you but you are as squishy as any other class. And there is no healer that would spam healing spells to you to keep you alive. So you need to avoid or block/counter attacks.

On 1. 4. 2017 at 7:43 AM, csisy said:

The 300% threat from attack is not a constant thing, it's just a spike. The Cyclone is barely used. The main goal of a BM is staying in draw stance. Cyclone is used after a block which switches to basic stance. The only available threat skill is the Raid.

While the KFM has:
- Tab (5s)
- RMB (15s)
- Counter (30s)

There is no point in comparing who has more skills that procs 150% threat buff since this buff doesn't stack with itself. Important is that both classes can keep up the threat buff all the time without any problem.

[Shuchin]

300% comet strike threat will make a difference though, as it is our most damaging skill and spammed about 8-10 times during Fighting spirit and about 3-5 times between using green badge.

 

Once I get this I will start offering to tank again in groups with BM, not before.

[SadFace]

On 01.04.2017 at 4:14 PM, csisy said:

Now the Dragontongue's AP ratios are:
- 7,5 base

- 4,0 crit

- 1,0 conflagration

 

After the patch:

- 5,5 base

- 3,2 crit

- 1,0 conflagration

that's a big nerf... :o

[dualistique]

16 hours ago, SadFace said:

that's a big nerf... :o

Well, to be fair, they increased the speed of Dragontongue so it's not that big of a nerf that people think it is.

 

Also in the new patch, it'll be more braindead to tank as BM considering, Lunar Slash/Searing Slash have threat buff for 30 seconds.  KFMs is a bit tricky, since you need to block and spec for other things to get the threat buff.

[csisy]

3 hours ago, dualistique said:

Well, to be fair, they increased the speed of Dragontongue so it's not that big of a nerf that people think it is.

 

Also in the new patch, it'll be more braindead to tank as BM considering, Lunar Slash/Searing Slash have threat buff for 30 seconds.  KFMs is a bit tricky, since you need to block and spec for other things to get the threat buff.

Yea, the animation is faster but if you have higher ping then you will deal way less damage.

[SadFace]

7 hours ago, dualistique said:

Well, to be fair, they increased the speed of Dragontongue so it's not that big of a nerf that people think it is.

 

Also in the new patch, it'll be more braindead to tank as BM considering, Lunar Slash/Searing Slash have threat buff for 30 seconds.  KFMs is a bit tricky, since you need to block and spec for other things to get the threat buff.

what's wrong withe the speed tho? I don't rly know why would they want to change it.

 

And for the threat - i don't like that change either. I rarely play my BM and i do not know how to tank properly but now i will probably get agro more often and annoy the party with my noob tanking skills or with lack of those...

[Dlacik]

26 minutes ago, SadFace said:

And for the threat - i don't like that change either.

Don't worry, there will be a Lunar Slash/Searing Slash version without threat buff.

[Shuchin]

On 04/04/2017 at 2:59 AM, dualistique said:

 KFMs is a bit tricky, since you need to block and spec for other things to get the threat buff.

Not really tricky. Threat versions are always identical to the non-threat versions, and all the 150% threat skills (slam, counter, tremor) have 30 second duration, with two regular skills (comet, tremor) generating 300% threat from their own damage. If the group manages to agree on who is tank beforehand, and people respec appropriately, there should never be a problem between KFM and BM any more.