amrodark

need your thoughts please ^^

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amrodark   

hello guys

i am a summoner with 734 ap hm 12  stage 6 balful i have clan and i have friends i run dungs with

my ping is around 190-230-240 ingame ms and i do around 15-17k dps not buffed \buffed 39k dps

my problem is my friends who i run with latly been sayin like i am kinda bad at my class . am a half player and i shud do more dmg than that i keep telling em i do my best when i do 15-17k dps but it feels like they think i am just bad

is there any exp summoner with close to my ap can tell me how much dmg they do buffed and unbuffed

and after i heard there is even  more nerf coming for summoner i feel like i will just slow my friends down in dungs cuz i know my dps will go lower with this nerf

is there a class that works better than summoner and can give me better dps once i learn their rotation with my current ping ( 190-230-240 ms ingame )?

thank you all

 

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Garlend   

If your animation canceling right you shouldn't be having too much trouble dealing damage cause you main attack should be your RMB. (Animation canceling is pressing the LMB then pressing the RMB right after canceling the LMB animation and keep on smashing those 2 buttons together while fighting.)

 

Sunflower should be doing anywhere from 9k-13k damage alone, no buff (guessing cuz I'm higher ap then u). Then all you other skills should be adding to it. It will be hard to see how much combined unless your in a 4man or 24man with the stream of numbers popping up.

 

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A lot of things can affect your DPS.  Soul Stage, Elemental Damage, etc...I have a fellow clan member around the same AP, and does as much damage as you as well.  But most people in dungeons don't realize the benefits of having other classes in the party.  Summoner heal is really nice to have.  So if your dmg is low, but you help the tank and other classes survive, then that's more DPS for the whole group since no one dies.  If you're doing an important role like marking, or luring, then of course your damage is going to lose out, but you're ensuring that the party survives.

 

Hard to tell if you're doing anything right or wrong without a video or at least screenshot of your exact gear and DPS details to see if you're utilizing everything correctly.

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Your damages are normal.. @amrodark

 

Your friends dont know summoner status. Summoner nerfed 3 times. Last 2 balance patches, our damages decreased.

 

First nerf : Focus bonus deleted. Second nerf : Sunflower spamming deleted. Third nerf : Damages decreased.

 

You will use earth build for max damage. And dont use root. Change cat mode to atacker and set C/V skill to damage mode. You can do avarage 20-30k damage. With buff 35-40k. With grap 40k-55k.

Edited by SuMMasteR

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Lemy   

Thats actually pretty normal considering the amount of nerfs we got on summoners. Seems like your friends don't know much about summoners. Besides most parties don't care about sums dps, they just want the benefits they offer to the party(healing, shealth, taunt). I do recommend for you to use the right side of the skill tree for your c skill if you're doing a dungeon that doesn't require resist projectile skill because using weed whack and 2 skill then using c and spamming lmb rmb did up my dps when I was playing on sum.

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I've seen a lot of people using bees, but you could also try using bees and see if the dps improve.

But I know some people prefer flowers because of pings, plus since we almost caught up to kr, and most of the 

summoners playing on kr uses bees so, start trying to use bees and see if your dps improve (again) if not, go back to flower

if it does improve then use bees

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Kisagii   

Yeah that's pretty low the problem may be is that you are using sunflower build with baleful weapon instead of seref. Use full wind build and have bees stage 3. Your dps will be much better then.

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Yndril   
33 minutes ago, Kisagii said:

Yeah that's pretty low the problem may be is that you are using sunflower build with baleful weapon instead of seref. Use full wind build and have bees stage 3. Your dps will be much better then.

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have any more damage if he used Seraph's on earth build... Baleful is pretty much better in all aspects. Regardless of spec. And bees are just slightly stronger than sunflower right now. Sunflower is also less ping reliant. With the ping he has, I think he would lose DPS by going bees.

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Meginb   

I heard that in KR, bees and sunflower aren't that far apart in terms of dps. The reason most summoners play bees, is because they've geared for it during the times when bees was significantly better. It'd take extra time/money/effort to suddenly go from bees build to sunflower and I'm sure they've grown accustomed to playing with bees, much like summoners over here being used to sunflower.

 

As for the post, your ping plays a huge part in that, I take massive hits to my dps if it starts spiking to anything over 200 on any class, but there's not much you can do about that... tell your friends to shut up.

Summoners have been nerfed into the ground, they've gone so far as nerfing our cat's damage as well (which is only in our version, kr doesn't have it) without telling us... tell your friends to stop whining about summoners in arena and maybe our dps will go up in the future.

Unless your friends have played a high level summoner, they have no friggin clue how the class works, the only time they can legitimately say you're a bad summoner is if you aren't using your party heal and other support skills since those are a core feature of your class and probably why you're needed in the group... tell your friends to play a summoner and show you how real dps is done if they think they know better than you.

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Yndril   

I'm not as geared as you (610~ ap, still true ivorymoon), and have better ping (what the game says, 120), but I tried in tower, floor 4 and 5 (without buffs) wind and earth respectively. I can't really be bothered to upload the screenshots, but I'll explain as detailed as possible.

 

I used petal toss on both specs (since petal storm toss will get a buff for Earth next patch anyway, and many players use toss anyway). Otherwise 

 

Wind spec against F4 with KFM as helper.

30 seconds, 10 975 DPS, average crit chance of 55~% (have 53% on paper), 46% crit on the main damage (rumblebees 43% of the total damage). Not sure I did the combo right, since I mainly use sunflower, but I used 1, 2, F, 3, lmb/rmb spam, until I run out of focus, Q cat with focus regen, kept burning focus with lmb/rmb spam, 3 was ready just before the boss died (got maybe 2 ticks?) so could've kept at it with doom and bloom afterwards I suppose for some more damage and then rince and repeat.

 

Earth spec against F5, no buffs (they have about same HP, but the KFM assisted on the previous floor)

33 seconds, 11 005 DPS, average crit chance of 40~% (ouch), 42% crit on super sunflower and 26% on sunflower (both sunflowers about 43% of the total damage). I used 1, F (start spamming lmb/rmb), 2, 3, kept spamming until ivy poison went out, 2 and 3 when off cd, F (doom and bloom) kept spamming lmb/rmb, got another 1, F some more lmb/rmb spam, rinse and repeat.

 

These are both shorter fights. Sustained DPS on longer fights, I generally get higher DPS on Earth, since it is only reliant on the enemy standing in flying nettles, be afflicted by doom and bloom or being pinned down by cat to stack photosynthesis for overflow (or instant overflow from HM 4), it also get a small buff when the enemy is afflicted by ivy poison, but if you time your 1,F and F properly, you should barely have any downtime on ivy poison (or none if you have HM 1 or get the opportunity to 4 an attack).

 

Wind on the other hand relies on you having focus recovering abilities and is only buffed by petal toss (and HM 4). Assuming non-baleful here though, Don't know how much the DPS would change with Baleful, depending on the proc rate, I think Wind would benefit the most from the reset on petal toss, but that is before the patch.

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Thats around how much I did when I had around 630ap. Then again, I have way lower ping than you.

Firstly, are your skill rotations good? For example, keeping up your Ivy Poison, utilizing Petal Toss, RMB/LMB like what most have been saying. 

Also how are your other stats such as critical rate, critical damage, pierce, accuracy?

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Yndril   
1 hour ago, Pepperino said:

Thats around how much I did when I had around 630ap. Then again, I have way lower ping than you.

Firstly, are your skill rotations good? For example, keeping up your Ivy Poison, utilizing Petal Toss, RMB/LMB like what most have been saying. 

Also how are your other stats such as critical rate, critical damage, pierce, accuracy?

Now that I checked, this was all done with PvP soul shield, my stats are horrid XD

615 AP, 43,82% crit chance, 191,14% crit damage, 112,02% accuracy, 11,21% defense pen, 5,94% block pen.

 

Playing sunflower, I always start with 1 to apply ivy poison, then F (flying nettles) to start alternating with sunflower and super sunflower and to keep it aligned with the ivy poison from 1 (non-HM), 2 when available and 3 if I play with toss, normally go for resist version because the damage is pretty negligible without baleful for my summoner and I don't trust others to handle that for me :P when I see ivy poison go out, I apply F (doom and bloom), and if I can and it's not on a boss where cat pin is bad (yeti or Igura (where I need to save the stun for the adds)), I pin down when doom and bloom has run out, though I rarely manage to get the pin out during this time frame. at this time, you should only have a couple of seconds left on 1 (or it should be ready again if you managed to 4 an attack), apply again and flying nettles, rinse and repeat, all the while you spam lmb and rmb like there is no tommorow.

 

And lag or not, move your mouse a little all the time while spamming lmb and rmb. The engine limit your inputs from the mouse to once every 0,4 seconds or something (not sure about the exact time), but moving the mouse just a little overrides that limit (for some reason). That's why if you look at streamers, they shake their hand a little while fighting (you see the screen shaking from their micro-movement).

 

I could recheck with the proper soul shields?

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1 hour ago, Yndril said:

Now that I checked, this was all done with PvP soul shield, my stats are horrid XD

615 AP, 43,82% crit chance, 191,14% crit damage, 112,02% accuracy, 11,21% defense pen, 5,94% block pen.

 

Playing sunflower, I always start with 1 to apply ivy poison, then F (flying nettles) to start alternating with sunflower and super sunflower and to keep it aligned with the ivy poison from 1 (non-HM), 2 when available and 3 if I play with toss, normally go for resist version because the damage is pretty negligible without baleful for my summoner and I don't trust others to handle that for me :P when I see ivy poison go out, I apply F (doom and bloom), and if I can and it's not on a boss where cat pin is bad (yeti or Igura (where I need to save the stun for the adds)), I pin down when doom and bloom has run out, though I rarely manage to get the pin out during this time frame. at this time, you should only have a couple of seconds left on 1 (or it should be ready again if you managed to 4 an attack), apply again and flying nettles, rinse and repeat, all the while you spam lmb and rmb like there is no tommorow.

 

And lag or not, move your mouse a little all the time while spamming lmb and rmb. The engine limit your inputs from the mouse to once every 0,4 seconds or something (not sure about the exact time), but moving the mouse just a little overrides that limit (for some reason). That's why if you look at streamers, they shake their hand a little while fighting (you see the screen shaking from their micro-movement).

 

I could recheck with the proper soul shields?

That was more towards the OP but I didn't quote, was in a rush.

But yeah, if you're going to try some tests, I'd go to 4man dungeons or tower 9-15. They'll give a more accurate reading.

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Yndril   
On 2017-03-27 at 11:26 PM, Pepperino said:

That was more towards the OP but I didn't quote, was in a rush.

But yeah, if you're going to try some tests, I'd go to 4man dungeons or tower 9-15. They'll give a more accurate reading.

If I want to test SB and BB I'd go 4-man, but if you're doing the rotation right, 30 seconds should pretty accurately show the DPS, now that I tested with the right ss's, it went down to 20 seconds though, so going up to Mushin's floor would probably be better to test. However, I've only played pre-13:th a couple of times, but I remember them being a little ridiculous with long resist periods or forcing you to run around doing other things. Most bosses just have attacks patterns to watch out for (lair for example) or some other smaller mechanics to handle (I-frame yeti slamdunk). While some have annoying mechanics that lowers your DPS... I'm looking at you Shattered Masts and Gloomdross.

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17 hours ago, Yndril said:

If I want to test SB and BB I'd go 4-man, but if you're doing the rotation right, 30 seconds should pretty accurately show the DPS, now that I tested with the right ss's, it went down to 20 seconds though, so going up to Mushin's floor would probably be better to test. However, I've only played pre-13:th a couple of times, but I remember them being a little ridiculous with long resist periods or forcing you to run around doing other things. Most bosses just have attacks patterns to watch out for (lair for example) or some other smaller mechanics to handle (I-frame yeti slamdunk). While some have annoying mechanics that lowers your DPS... I'm looking at you Shattered Masts and Gloomdross.

I say those to see how constant your dps is with the rotations considering the bosses have more HP/Evasion/Block etc. Doing the tower up to like Mushin or whatnot, they die rather quick so you can't really see much difference.

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