FM ToI frost orbit bugged?

[Yndril]

For the longest time now, I've been seriously pissed facing FM in ToI, no matter the class, but especially on Sum, and today I decided to check WHY it annoys me to no end.

No matter what I do, he instantly freeze me or escape all the CC I throw at him at the start of the fight, more often than not, he then proceed to use anti-ranged so I can't harm him, all good, I can anti-range his attacks as well so it's 10 seconds Mexican stand-off, where he always will use the fire thingie on the ground. This isn't so bad, he has no frost orbits yet, normally.

So then comes the annoying part, after both anti-range runs out and if he hasn't pushed me out of my anti-ranged, he'll start trying to get frost orbits. That's all fine, it would take him 3 hits with frost palm to get 3 stacks and for me to get frozen, I've faced plenty FM in PvP, it isn't that bad, I keep looking at my chill stacks, 0 chill stacks, I'd imagine that I would need to hit him 3 times after he get frost orbits? NOPE! I keep staring after chill stacks, none, then frozen, he didn't use any of the abilities that apply freeze, I was just instantly frozen after I hit him once, I SS it , he still has a frost orbit, I have no chill stacks on me, I seed shroud his attack and used flying nettles, boom frozen again, frost orbit still on him, on about 20 seconds left now. I turn to look at my cat, cat has full HP, unharmed, but frozen, just like me, I E the cat and send him right in, gets frozen immediately, still only 1 frost orbit, now at about 14 seconds left.

 

So I start to think that it is weird, it's not at all how it usually works... So I stop trying to do anything to him, I just let him be, only has a flying nettles under him, I'm frozen, 0 chill stacks, he use impact, boom frozen again, another impact, frozen, impact, frozen, impact, I'm not hitting him with anything but the flying nettles still under him, see it runs out, I'm not frozen after the impact, I look at his frost orbits, still only 1 frost orbit, now at about 10 seconds left, a few seconds later, he has 3 stacks of frost orbit, 30 seconds left. So I start giving it my all, use every single ability I have to remove and iframe (true friend) the freeze, I also now always have 2 chill stacks, found that one odd, but I simply guessed frost orbit doesn't apply any more chills if you're already frozen. All this while, I keep staring at his frost orbit stacks, I keep getting frozen, but he still have 3 stacks of frost orbit, and the timer is ticking down, he does not lose any frost orbit, and he does not reapply frost orbit... 30 seconds later, his 3 frost orbit runs out, I saved my SS to remove freeze and then proceeded to let my cat shred him and bombarded him with CC's, well for a couple of seconds at least, then he use anti-ranged again and we stare at each other, still no stacks, once frozen because he used ice coil (i think it was...), SS and kept at him, no chill stacks still, see him get a frost orbit, attack once, instantly frozen, under my flying nettles, so I get impact, frozen, impact, frozen, impact, frozen until he no longer stands in my flying nettles because he have pushed me to far away and use E Q to get closer to me... I eventually managed to kill him by completely ignoring him until he no longer had frost orbit and did everything within my power to prevent him from getting one.

 

So after all this, I thought back to my fights with FM on my BD, which in PvP is one of the easier match-ups, was basically impossible to defeat in ToI, I have this ability that removes freeze, and I kept spamming that spin, constantly, but he eventually outran me by WALKING BACKWARDS, because he instantly froze me as soon as I broke the freeze... the ToI opponents already have impossible reaction speeds, why do they also cheat the rules of the game?

[Yndril]

So after some checking with my own FM, I have realised what is different, why the ToI never ever looses a frost orbit stack, because the proc for frost orbit is "recover 2 focus" it does not lose a stack unless you are hit when you don't have full focus, and as far as I know, the creeps in ToI does not have focus, and since they don't have focus, they can't regain focus, and since they can't regain focus, they can't loose a stack... but that does not explain why you get instantly frozen instead of stacking chill, because I sure as hell never saw a single stack of chill except when he had 3 stacks of frost orbit and and constantly had 2 chill instead...

[Zedonia]

Are you sure you know how FM works?

10 hours ago, Yndril said:

why the ToI never ever looses a frost orbit stack, because the proc for frost orbit is "recover 2 focus" it does not lose a stack unless you are hit when you don't have full focus

What? Your orbits expire after 30s. It has nothing to do with having focus or attacking or whatever. You can use them for blaze/frost/dual dragons but otherwise they will never vanish before the 30s timer runs out. As far as I know, the FM in ToI will never use them for an attack so if they have orbs, they will keep them for 30s.

10 hours ago, Yndril said:

the creeps in ToI does not have focus, and since they don't have focus, they can't regain focus, and since they can't regain focus, they can't loose a stack

Thats nonsense, completely. They got focus but especially the FM will always have focus if you hit him while he has frost orbs because he gains 3 focus with 3 orbs per hit.

10 hours ago, Yndril said:

but that does not explain why you get instantly frozen instead of stacking chill

I doubt you get instantly frozen. You just get the chill stacks extremely fast. The FM in ToI is very fast and will freeze you very easily. You will freeze yourself, too, if you attack him while he has frost orbs. I dont know much about sums but I think your nettles are an overtime effect. Even if it doesnt do damage, you will get a chill stack for every hit it does. So he has impact you permanently.

 

I know the Fm in ToI is very annoying on higher floors but what he does (except the cd resets ofc) is legit.

[Yndril]

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What? Your orbits expire after 30s. It has nothing to do with having focus or attacking or whatever.

Oh, really. Have to test that further.

 

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Thats nonsense, completely. They got focus but especially the FM will always have focus if you hit him while he has frost orbs because he gains 3 focus with 3 orbs per hit.

By that logic, I would never have to worry about focus if I just get 3 stacks, because not only would they be permanently frozen when they hit me, they would feed me infinite focus as long as I don't press F, which I really don't have any reason to unless it's only a couple of seconds left on my 3 frost orbits. I don't play FM that much in PvP (5 times, tops), but I've faced lots of them, either the FM's I face in PvP have no clue what frost orbits are or they do not work as you believe. Either of them is likely...

 

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The FM in ToI is very fast and will freeze you very easily.

They may have impossible reaction times, but they still abide by the laws of global cooldown, they should not be able to stack chill any faster than a player possibly could. Period.

 

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I doubt you get instantly frozen. You just get the chill stacks extremely fast.

I used ONE lmb, I had NO chill stacks, FROZEN. the dude is even pinned down by my cat, so he can't retaliate, unless my lmb count as multiple attacks in one, or my cat's attacks counts as mine and vice versa (doubtful, but it would be another bug to test...), you're simply wrong.

 

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The FM in ToI is very fast and will freeze you very easily.

They may have impossible reaction times (using a parry Just before you hit them), but they still abide by the laws of global cooldowns. They can't by any means freeze you faster than a player would. Period.

 

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You will freeze yourself, too, if you attack him while he has frost orbs.

Yeah, correct... not stack chill, freeze...

 

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I dont know much about sums but I think your nettles are an overtime effect. Even if it doesnt do damage, you will get a chill stack for every hit it does. So he has impact you permanently.

Flying nettles is a field over time effect, it ticks every 2 seconds for 10 seconds, with an initial hit, so 6 ticks in total. So assuming each hit stacks CHILL, it would take 4 seconds to get frozen, and another 6 to get frozen again, unless he stacks other chills, but again, I did not see a single chill stack while being impacted constantly. Just frozen, impact, frozen, impact, frozen, impact, frozen, impact until he could no longer reach me. Unless the game count the slow effect as a "hit" in which case you would never be able to see the chill stacks, since it would stack so fast it would be impossible to see (that could be like 100 "hits" a second). And in that case, how can you even begin to describe that "not a bugg"? It would mean that any field effect that reapplies when standing in it would be like an instant kick in the balls for Sum (that have several of those), Sin, Destro, BM, KFM, FM, SF and to some extent, BD and WL. "Whoops, I used helpful ability X, suddenly I'm being permanently frozen".

 

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what he does (except the cd resets ofc) is legit.

That is perfectly legit, higher floors they can have Seraph's and Baleful, and they can, just as you, have a special effect (like resist status effects or reduce/reset cooldowns). If their proc rate on Seraph's and Baleful is fair is another discussion.

 

So if you say "working as intended" then I say "break it", I see no reason to let the frost orbits stay after you supposedly get chilled by "hitting" them. You can stack them easy enough, why would you make them even more powerful by making them a permanent focus fountain and freeze bomb? "Something on the ground? Better stand in it!"