For people who don't have time for BT (Skybreak Spire)

[Phaere]

I'm sorry to tell you all but there will be no way to skip BT.

Naryu Sanctum and Research Lab are 4/ 6 man dungeons and both are considered harder than BT and will be massive gear and skill checks (800+ ap along with having legendary weapon (stage 7+) and accessories are required for these).

 

The final bosses in these dungeons will not have any self-damage mechanics or damage buffs like Infernal Lord in DT or Zakhan in EC. All bosses will have more health than stage 6 turtle in MSP. To clear both before there enrage time each player has to do 35k sustained dps in 6man and 50k sustained dps in 4man while also avoiding lots of mechanics that can cause an instant wipe and moving a lot for the normal mechanics.

 

Than later we will get Vortex Temple 24m which is even more difficult and BT gear is required for it

[FrozenB]

9 hours ago, NightFer said:

If you want the best-of-time items you have to put on some efforts of getting them. You will NOT get those items for free. End of story! You either spend countless hours wiping and learning per week to get your hands on those incredibly powerful items or you whine in the forums that there are no "normal" ways to get these items.

That's wrong. When there are enough players whining at the same issue on forum, they will do something about it. Just like back in the old days when people were complaining that they couldn't get a single legendary accessories drop from DT, EC, and foundry after 100+ runs, they added the items to trade for them. This is exclusive to this server because all other servers don't have this feature. 

[NightFer]

10 minutes ago, FrozenB said:

That's wrong. When there are enough players whining at the same issue on forum, they will do something about it. Just like back in the old days when people were complaining that they couldn't get a single legendary accessories drop from DT, EC, and foundry after 100+ runs, they added the items to trade for them. This is exclusive to this server because all other servers don't have this feature. 

But all other servers are dedicated to farm those items instead of whine about not getting them from drops. If you are more dedicated to the game and play it instead of whine in the forums, people will get what they want in no time. Why the other regions dont have the items for legendary acc exchange? Simple. Because people are better off farming for them because the rewards you can get from the sole dungeons are way better than the actual legendary itself since they have more legendary acc (take china for example, they have TONS of legendary accessories and weapons that other regions dont have and wount have).

When there are enough people whining in the forums that the game is hard it means the region is bad enough already and the people only want free stuff. That, my friend, puts a bad name on the region.

[FrozenB]

9 minutes ago, NightFer said:

But all other servers are dedicated to farm those items instead of whine about not getting them from drops. If you are more dedicated to the game and play it instead of whine in the forums, people will get what they want in no time. Why the other regions dont have the items for legendary acc exchange? Simple. Because people are better off farming for them because the rewards you can get from the sole dungeons are way better than the actual legendary itself since they have more legendary acc (take china for example, they have TONS of legendary accessories and weapons that other regions dont have and wount have).

When there are enough people whining in the forums that the game is hard it means the region is bad enough already and the people only want free stuff. That, my friend, puts a bad name on the region.

I was just stating the fact and that was what NC did. Nothing else. In fact, I got my legendary accessories from running dungeons too. So, I care less about the item exchange feature they added to this server.

 

However, BT is different. I can run few hundreds of DT, EC, and foundry without problem because once I know the mechanics, the dungeon are short anyways (can be done with 15-25 minutes per run). Also, party is small that I can set up or PUG easily. It fits my busy schedule in real life anyways. BT? Oh..please, just like other people said 2-3 hours for 2 stages in BT? Well...that's considered to be very fast for me and I assume that it is not a PUG party. For PUG party, 5+ hours can't even get 1st stage of boss done because of consistent replacement of new players into the party since people need to go off and on a lot. Sometimes you want a healer and buff class in the party and make an announcement for 30 minutes+ and no one joins. During this time, all 20+ members in the alliances just sit in the dungeon and wait and do nothing. This is the life of PUG party. It is completely different from pre-made alliances within the big clans.

 

Another solution is to make server merge. Putting all different servers in NA server together. The market will be the same anyways since they are all linked with each other. I don't see any reasons why they have to separate the servers despite of low population in this game already. It increases the numbers of PUG party for BT raid per week. At least if I don't like this BT raid party, I can hop over to the other one. Now, there is no choice for outsiders to PUG BT party.

[Bladesoyun]

Some people don't realize that some others have time limits, jobs, family and schedules...and that probably they can't be there at a certain time, when all the raids take place; and also that the few timezone/timewise friendlier raids left, are made of total scrubs that will waste yours and theyrs time...

It's not about effort or being good or committed to the game; for what I have experienced, mechs in BT are a joke, as long as you are a decent player, but finding 24 well geared and capable players, who will run it when you have time too with such a low playerbase, is like having a great bamboo pole sticked you know where...

So alternative, more player friendly (not less difficult) ways to get said equip would be more than welcome by many players

[Charas Blade]

12 minutes ago, Bladesoyun said:

Some people don't realize that some others have time limits, jobs, family and schedules...and that probably they can't be there at a certain time

Those people need to learn how to manage theirs time and inform if they can't participate. I'll tell you 1 thing once you get it going with static raid whole BT run takes ±3-4h max. If you can afford this amount of time to stay in game why you start even to complain in a first place? Every single MMO I played and possibly know requires time investment to begin with. Just don't tell that you play 1h a day and want to have Raven weapon. It's not going to happened! 

[Bladesoyun]

21 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

Those people need to learn how to manage theirs time and inform if they can't participate. I'll tell you 1 thing once you get it going with static raid whole BT run takes ±3-4h max. If you can afford this amount of time to stay in game why you start even to complain in a first place? Every single MMO I played and possibly know requires time investment to begin with. Just don't tell that you play 1h a day and want to have Raven weapon. It's not going to happened! 

I am not telling anything like this, it's you who is assuming stuff.

I will eventually manage to find the time, yes, because at the moment it's the only way I can get that equip, BUT...

I play 5+ hours a day, full farmed legs, but in times when the raids are not done (or at edges of raid times), and also most of the times, I have matters to attend to urgently, that cannot be delayed, so I need to take breaks during said time; and since I am a respectful person and I don't like to leave afk while 23 people wait for me, most of the times, I need to renounce to run the raid.

Now it's me that assume stuff, many people will have my same problem and would like to have alternative ways to get said equip.

 

Now let's get back to your direct picking and trying to shame on me...I don't understand why you are fighting over this war; mine is just another point of view from a committed player who enjoy the game and would like to see implemented stuff and makes suggestions. I am not asking to make your life harder or something, so why and why you have to pick on my problems and tell me what I have to learn or not to do!

 

Back on topic, sorry

[Charas Blade]

44 minutes ago, Bladesoyun said:

Now let's get back to your direct picking and trying to shame on me...I don't understand why you are fighting over this war; mine is just another point of view from a committed player who enjoy the game and would like to see implemented stuff and makes suggestions. I am not asking to make your life harder or something, so why and why you have to pick on my problems and tell me what I have to learn or not to do!

 

Alright, you haven't mentioned yourself in a post and generalized in a first place. So that's why I started bashing simple is that. Well apparently I was wrong and that's nice to know that people at least understand and respect other people time, but in general picture of whole BnS community that isn't a case. 

 

Sorry to say but most of post on forums is whine about something, remember those "Why I quit BnS" videos? and guy goes like yes I need to invest 2 weeks to get 3 ap omg how to live now, I want end game gear in 1 weeks to enjoy game for 1 weeks then tell that game is trash and there is no end game. According to me there is like 2 types

 

1. Old school gamers they play and usually don't even go to forums, because it's full of whine (not drama, just whine)

2. New gen players (people up to 25y, not all but most) who haven't played neither Lineage2, neither WoW vanila. They been risen on considerably easy games and all they do usually go to forum and whine about how hard game is. 

 

 Also I feel that most of the player base doesn't appreciate NC works at all. Boyz remember back in dayz there was no F2P (or it was complete crap game) and localization team did a work of 4 years in 1 year. But no let keep crying and whining like little kids 

 

By that said I feel a bit disappointed in so called new generation of gamers.

 

Peace

[LonesomeCowboy]

2 hours ago, Charas Blade said:

Alright, you haven't mentioned yourself in a post and generalized in a first place. So that's why I started bashing simple is that. Well apparently I was wrong and that's nice to know that people at least understand and respect other people time, but in general picture of whole BnS community that isn't a case. 

 

Sorry to say but most of post on forums is whine about something, remember those "Why I quit BnS" videos? and guy goes like yes I need to invest 2 weeks to get 3 ap omg how to live now, I want end game gear in 1 weeks to enjoy game for 1 weeks then tell that game is trash and there is no end game. According to me there is like 2 types

 

1. Old school gamers they play and usually don't even go to forums, because it's full of whine (not drama, just whine)

2. New gen players (people up to 25y, not all but most) who haven't played neither Lineage2, neither WoW vanila. They been risen on considerably easy games and all they do usually go to forum and whine about how hard game is. 

 

 Also I feel that most of the player base doesn't appreciate NC works at all. Boyz remember back in dayz there was no F2P (or it was complete crap game) and localization team did a work of 4 years in 1 year. But no let keep crying and whining like little kids 

 

By that said I feel a bit disappointed in so called new generation of gamers.

 

Peace

Playing a game is not a job. I don't know who made that "gamer" term up but it's not. A game is supposed to be fun rather than grind which is why these people complain about BT. That dungeons is far by the most irritating one at the moment and i think they released it too early. Unlike other servers we don't have one ethnicity here so half the time forming a proper raid outside a clan is pretty hard let it be because of language or time zone. You might say that they should join a clan which is how it should be normally but as we all know BnS player base is* very toxic and elitist. 

 

All in all, right now BT is overkill for our server imo. With the 12th April patch and BT nerf, maybe normal players can actually complete that raid.

[Zedonia]

17 minutes ago, LonesomeCowboy said:

BT nerf

I doubt we will get that very soon. And even if we had that nerf now it's not like you can do it with everyone without problems. If people dont know what to do or suck heavily in dps they will fail no matter if we have the nerf or not.

[Shuchin]

I am also very much for alternative pathways to the gear. This is not unreasonable if it stays proportional to effort put in. For example, I do not require more than one kill achievement to be able to access the dearly needed 3-set SS bonus with feathers from Dawn raids. But no one is going to include a casual player in a BT run (especially not for only stage 1), even though I can do 35k dps. So I am stuck there.

 

Just adding it to the cross server might get us somewhere. If you can PUG it, with the rising average damage output, at least stage 1 would become easier to access. And in time, the rest too.

[Charas Blade]

31 minutes ago, LonesomeCowboy said:

Playing a game is not a job. I don't know who made that "gamer" term up but it's not. A game is supposed to be fun rather than grind which is why these people complain about BT. That dungeons is far by the most irritating one at the moment and i think they released it too early. Unlike other servers we don't have one ethnicity here so half the time forming a proper raid outside a clan is pretty hard let it be because of language or time zone. You might say that they should join a clan which is how it should be normally but as we all know BnS player base is* very toxic and elitist. 

 

Alright, you want to play a game I see. I have job, wife, 2 children's (5 and 8), I travel and I can allow to do a BT raid for few hours , few days a week. I guess you one of those, who only make excuses and can't learn simple mechanics. BT is not grind I'm sorry if you considering grind staying alive at 1st boss (lol) or maybe grind is how to CC. You sir have no clue that grind even is to begin with. However I agree that BT could be released after april 12 patch. Now regarding timezones (speaking of EU we have mainly ±3h difference) I don't consider that a big as issue, considering language "I'm sorry if you can't say STUN/KD and count" .... seriously? I kind of agree about elitism a bit, toxic not really. I should say disrespectful should be right word (now funny part all people I know, who are 30+ in game never been late for a run even for a minute and always saying if they can't coz of force-major reasons) and that new generation always late, never says something, never ask that he/she did wrong and usually rage-quiting.

 

42 minutes ago, LonesomeCowboy said:

All in all, right now BT is overkill for our server imo. With the 12th April patch and BT nerf, maybe normal players can actually complete that raid.

BT Nerf I hope isn't coming any month soon , so people can learn to communicate or gather in a clan. 

 

 

I'll say it again BT requirement aren't sky high 700+ which is obtainable within few month of game, motivation and punctuality. Last 2 are even more important, because even 2000 ap will wipe.

[LonesomeCowboy]

32 minutes ago, Zedonia said:

I doubt we will get that very soon. And even if we had that nerf now it's not like you can do it with everyone without problems. If people dont know what to do or suck heavily in dps they will fail no matter if we have the nerf or not.

With HM buffs it should be easier than it is now.

[Charas Blade]

3 minutes ago, LonesomeCowboy said:

I specifically said completing the raid.

Dude do you understand that Raid planing need to be done offline, now I kind of get if you trying on hot head to do it. Try different approach

 

[LonesomeCowboy]

10 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

A. BT is not grind I'm sorry if you considering grind staying alive at 1st boss (lol)

I specifically said completing the raid.

[PhoenixMitra]

Greetings,

 

We want to remind everybody to stay on topic and keep your posts civil. No need to get personal or derogatory. 

 

Thank you!

[Fiana]

i also agree, please make alternative way to get material from BT

its not the mechanic that hold us back... but to gather 24 player with good gear :3
its not something i can do by go to dungeon loby and make it in 5 min

hours is spend to gather member alone... i can learn any mechanic from 6-4 man dungeon :3

[Senmaa]

For the people who started complaining about how much time Skybreak Spire takes to run, or how they're unable to do it with PUG's, or how hard it is to get the legendary items from there I say this - Don't get those items. You don't have to. Even without the legendary items from this raid, one can still hit 900 ap, or relatively close to it, which is more than enough for PVE AND PVP content.

            Of course people will argue that there are others with stage 6 Raven weapon in arena, and they can't be beat because of this; well to that I say pray to RNGesus, and hope you don't find them in your arena runs.

 

You cannot expect to get everything handed to you so easily as was the case with the Draken accessories which are now available in the Dragon Express. I know some people did over a hundred runs to get the necklace from Desolate Tomb, I myself got it on my 93rd run. It was frustrating sure, but it was an amazing experience. It was something worth fighting for. Now, it has become easier to obtain those accessories, and I don't necessarily like that, but I'm going to roll with it.

 

If you don't have time for the Skybreak Spire run, you either make time for it, or don't run it at all, if you don't want to join a PUG group for this raid, either join a clan who can assist you with it, or if you don't have ANY clans in your server who are able to run it, buy a server transfer ticket, and move to a more populated server, where you can join a clan and finally run it.

 

Legendary items are legendary for a reason, they shouldn't be handed out for people just cause they're unable to put in the time, or even when it's not even necessary. There are tons of things to do in game without needing these items, so please stop complaining. NCSOFT I think is doing a good job providing us with content, and items, and even though the 64 bit client didn't work for me, I am still able to enjoy the game with the 32 bit client with 50 fps in game.

 

We've finally gotten something that is challenging, and instead of wanting to use their brains, people want to complain about how they're used to clearing dungeons in 15 minutes or whatever, and want a nerf to Skybreak Spire. It is really hard, and my group hasn't even managed to get past the 2nd boss, but I want to keep it the way it is, and fight for those items, because they're worth it.

[Shuchin]

A main problem about this is that in its current set-up, weapon evolution suggests Raven as the "natural" continuation of your PvE gear progression. It is not presented as optional at all.

 

Being more PvX focused, I do not care about that and happily use my Galaxy weapon, but there are other items to consider as well:

I will gladly opt for alternative gear in 6v6, which I can mostly, but 15% CC damage from challenger set is a poor substitute for 75% extra damage for Comet Strike. Elemental gear for PvP currency would also go a long way to reduce pressure here.

 

I expect things will get better already with the April update, but still the situation as it is feels awkward for a certain part of the end game community. Dear devs, we are looking forward to any improvements. ^_^

[Zedonia]

48 minutes ago, Senmaa said:

Even without the legendary items from this raid, one can still hit 900 ap, or relatively close to it, which is more than enough for PVE AND PVP content.

Well, you have to remember that items from BT are much much more worth than some AP. Of course you can go the alternative weapon path but for example: Raven stage 1 alone is better than having 100 AP more but not the weapon. Same for the earring. Maybe not so much AP but the earring has at least almost the same boost than weapon stage 1. Both together + ring is much better than having 1000 AP but none of these. Sure, someone with 600 AP will most likely not having BT gear, but still. F8 searches will change someday when people realize that they fall extremely behind without that gear. With the skill revamp in 3 weeks we get many AP for free, too. Sure, you might be able to clear the content without that gear but you will see that a group full of people without that gear will have a pretty hard time with Naryu Sanctum. Until we get the next raid somewhere this year people should be able to run BT or there is no point in even trying the next raid.

 

After all, I agree with you. I'm against a BT nerf and I'm against other ways to obtain that gear. An alternative weapon path is ok for me because it's nowhere near the same as chokma. I know having 23 other people might be hard but it's an MMO after all.

[FrozenB]

From the posts I read so far, basically there are 2 group of players.

 

1 group of players, who are against the nerf of BT or other ways to obtain BT gears, already have a static group to run BT raid, which means they have constant number and same  players to run BT every week. (maybe just recruit 1 or 2 healer or buff classes if not enough members) Even though some of them can't clear all 4 stages in BT yet, they can still manage to do it somehow in the future when they have better equipments/gears.

 

The other group of players, who wants the nerf of BT and other ways to obtain BT gears, need to PUG random BT raid because they lack of friends or clanmates in the game. Of course, PUG raid party fail rate is alot higher than the pre-made raid party and it includes countless waiting time for recruiting players in the server. Also, most of the time, it will be just learning BT raid runs because there will be more than half of the players in the raid BT who don't know mechanics of each boss. Also, PUG party has high turn-over rate, which means that new players will keep being recruited when the old players in the party have to leave the party due to real life issues. In order for them to finish the BT runs, either they have to abandon their own clan and hop over to big clans and suck their deek for BT raid OR they just have to keep begging on forum for alternatives. 

 

Since my character is not one of the heal or buff classes, for me, the only way to run BT raid is either hopping over to big clans or keep begging on forum. I would rather choose the later option. 

 

My suggestion will be like this. Why don't you give out 1 or 2 raven feathers as daily challenge quest reward? Since you are giving out MSP plants as daily challenge quest reward, why not do the same for raven feathers? Even if you give out 1 or 2 raven feathers per day, it still takes 1 or 2 month to collect only 1 piece of raven SS. So, I doubt it will really hurt the whales in this game anyways. Also, it is better to put the raven weapon mats in the exchange merchant so that we can use raven feathers to exchange for them as well (maybe 100-120 feathers per mats?). Instead of putting raven weapon mats directly in dragon express, they can put the raven feathers like in a bundle of 20 or 30 in exchange with 200 heavenly energy. This way, people can have alternative ways to keep upgrading their weapon, but will spend alot longer time than the people who can run and finish the BT raid. Still, if people want the legendary accessories from BT, they will still have to run the BT raid for them. Eventually, all players have to learn the mechanics to run BT raid if they want max gears.

[Bladesoyun]

It is funny to see the people who boast  "you don't put time or effort or you don't join guilds", don't even stop reading other people posts and objections, or stop after reading 2 lines or totally ignore their arguments overriding them with their point of view which must be the only one valid.

I am not referring to anyone in particular because there are many who are doing this in the thread...

 

Now I am pretty sure that the mods will read every single post of said thread and eventually, will notice the fairness and logic of many of the arguments that I see exposed here and hopefully will bring them to the attention of NCwest

 

I want to say another thing: the bigger guilds, which are able to run BT these days are trying to imply that you either join them, and totally subdue your personality to their leadership and their indiscussed leader's authority, following their orders (that means also a minimum bid that they decide), or you BUY your spot in their raids giving them even more wealth or power...that's probably one of the reasons which are bringing here such fierce battle.

 

Well guess what, I don't want to subdue to anyone and stay in my small Clan, because I feel I have the right to do that. I also feel that I have the right to enjoy every content of the game and have access to it, and have the possibility to drop it's gear, even if I have timezone or personal time issues, which don't allow me to coordinate with 24 people together (or one person who decides for 24)

 

As I said, I will probably have to cope with that broken logic and adapt to obtain what I want, but I need to bring my point of view and feedback, hoping not to get insulted as usual or bullyed or pointed as "the kind of person" who does this and that. TY

 

 

 

 

[dualistique]

Not sure if it's mentioned here yet, but there is an 'alternative' catchup legendary that allows player to gear up past Baleful/Seraph without feeling stuck and still able to better their AP/DPS.  It's not as comparative to Raven of course, but it's a good placeholder so to speak.  The legendary uses fragments that are bought with peaches that are farmable in the new Celestial Basin content coming up.  Whether they release that weapon on the same day or not, I can't be for certain.

 

Also with the conversation about BT grouping.  It definitely is hard.  Currently, I've been trying to get most of my clan into it, but even with a full signup sheet of 20-24 people, almost half of them can't make it due to scheduling or special events.  That is the main thing that's hard with BT.  Forming a static is really tough but there are a bunch of discord groups/clans willing to accept people into their raids.  You just got to look out for them.

 

(Sidenote:  For anyone interested in BT learning group and on NA Group 1 feel free to PM me~)

[AnemosVelos]

So far, I haven't been able to get in any alliance for Black Tower due to my hour :(

Apparently, if you have a day job and only get on at night, there is no way to find an alliance for Black Tower....

I am on OMC/Mushin btw.

[FrozenB]

1 hour ago, AnemosVelos said:

So far, I haven't been able to get in any alliance for Black Tower due to my hour :(

Apparently, if you have a day job and only get on at night, there is no way to find an alliance for Black Tower....

I am on OMC/Mushin btw.

Gosh, if we have trouble finding BT raid party in the most populated servers (OMC/Mushin) in NA, how can we survive in other lower populated servers (for example, me)?

 

1 hour ago, dualistique said:

Not sure if it's mentioned here yet, but there is an 'alternative' catchup legendary that allows player to gear up past Baleful/Seraph without feeling stuck and still able to better their AP/DPS.  It's not as comparative to Raven of course, but it's a good placeholder so to speak.  The legendary uses fragments that are bought with peaches that are farmable in the new Celestial Basin content coming up.  Whether they release that weapon on the same day or not, I can't be for certain.

 

Also with the conversation about BT grouping.  It definitely is hard.  Currently, I've been trying to get most of my clan into it, but even with a full signup sheet of 20-24 people, almost half of them can't make it due to scheduling or special events.  That is the main thing that's hard with BT.  Forming a static is really tough but there are a bunch of discord groups/clans willing to accept people into their raids.  You just got to look out for them.

 

(Sidenote:  For anyone interested in BT learning group and on NA Group 1 feel free to PM me~)

I wish I can join yours, but I am from different server group in NA. That's too bad. Most of the discord group/clans are looking for healer/buffer classes. If no requirements, then it is usually learning run parties. Just to be clear, what's the point of alternative path when the weapon from that path is weaker than raven weapon in the long run? Who will invest time/golds into something that is weaker in general? 

 

Anyone has information about emperor weapon. Like how do we evolve from galaxy weapon to emperor weapon? What dungeons will we need to run and what mats will be needed? If the emperor weapon can be obtained easier than raven, I will just ask GM to switch my seraph weapon to galaxy even though I would lost some golds in overall upgrade. Raven weapon is completely out of question if there are no alternative ways to get the mats in my case.