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ARC1276

Buff the FM already

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hwalien   

My HM9 FM stands at around 680 AP.

I've done 0 research about FM builds(PVP, PVE).

My skill rotation in PVE, I would say about 70% LBM, 25% F and 5% others mixed with few defensive skills and burn things.

PVP : 60% LBM, 20% F, 10% 1, 5 % other with defensive skills.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing as FM but still I'm pulling aggro more than half the time in PVE. I'm killing more than I die in PVP(normally does 3 x more damage than what i take). 

 

I can't say if FM need improvement or not since I don't know how to play as one. But one thing for sure is that if I run into an FM who plays like i do, as long as I'm not play as FM, it will be a easy win.

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39 minutes ago, hwalien said:

My HM9 FM stands at around 680 AP.

I've done 0 research about FM builds(PVP, PVE).

My skill rotation in PVE, I would say about 70% LBM, 25% F and 5% others mixed with few defensive skills and burn things.

PVP : 60% LBM, 20% F, 10% 1, 5 % other with defensive skills.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing as FM but still I'm pulling aggro more than half the time in PVE. I'm killing more than I die in PVP(normally does 3 x more damage than what i take). 

 

I can't say if FM need improvement or not since I don't know how to play as one. But one thing for sure is that if I run into an FM who plays like i do, as long as I'm not play as FM, it will be a easy win.

Oh man that is a very depressing pve rotation T-T

 

For some reason when i play frost build i always get the aggro as well, yet i do two times the damage when i use burn build but i don't get aggro with it o.o 

I also noticed when i use short fuse at the start of the fight my threat increases as well and it doesn't matter what dps i do, i'll get the aggro over anyone else. It's a weird thing because none of those skills are supposed to increase threat, at least it isn't in their description...

 

But anyway you should get used to using 2 more often since it's kinda your main ability

Edited by sephy Kun

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hwalien   
16 minutes ago, sephy Kun said:

Oh man that is a very depressing pve rotation T-T

lol..... QQ

I use my 2 only as AOE and when I get SB buff.

May I ask what rotation i should use? All tho I don't play my FM much, I wouldn't mind improving my plays.

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36 minutes ago, hwalien said:

lol..... QQ

I use my 2 only as AOE and when I get SB buff.

May I ask what rotation i should use? All tho I don't play my FM much, I wouldn't mind improving my plays.

You should watch this

 

 

My ping doesn't allow me to use rmb as much as he does since i can't change stances as quick and i might use ice skills by mistake, so if you have high ping you can skip rmb when using your cool downs

If you're using ice build then you should change into burn build. (I can outdps ice build FMs 100ap higher than me with ease while having 200 ping) Atleast until the new skill system is implemented.

 

Edit: speaking of the new skill system, they are removing fire fury and adding a 14(?) Seconds cooldown to dragonblaze so your rotation won't even exist anymore >.>

Edited by sephy Kun

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Leodore   

Potential fixes to these areas without changes to any classes, but instead changing the actual mechanics of the area

 

To fix TOI: Increase timer for battles and allow non-burst classes to perform decently in TOI, also the training area for TOI as well
To fix 1v1: Double the HP of all classes, and triple the timer to help avoid people succeeding in running out the clock (allows for a slightly larger window for error, more engaged battles, and stops people from 100-0 any class)

To fix 3v3: allow only 1 person of each class in a party (no more double stacking classes or triple stacking)

To fix 6v6: remove self buffs upon picking up horn (still allow for other people to buff you once you've acquired the horn), and allow for ping alerts when players are invisible while taking horn or brazier, and also allow only 2 of each class in a party, tired of getting stacks of one class vs stacks of another class

 

 

 

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hwalien   
2 hours ago, hwalien said:

My HM9 FM stands at around 680 AP.

I've done 0 research about FM builds(PVP, PVE).

My skill rotation in PVE, I would say about 70% LBM, 25% F and 5% others mixed with few defensive skills and burn things.

PVP : 60% LBM, 20% F, 10% 1, 5 % other with defensive skills.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing as FM but still I'm pulling aggro more than half the time in PVE. I'm killing more than I die in PVP(normally does 3 x more damage than what i take). 

 

I can't say if FM need improvement or not since I don't know how to play as one. But one thing for sure is that if I run into an FM who plays like i do, as long as I'm not play as FM, it will be a easy win.

had to quote myself cus I had this other way around.... yeah this is how little I play my FM QQ

i use 70% F and like 25% LBM.

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hwalien   
1 hour ago, sephy Kun said:

You should watch this

 

 

My ping doesn't allow me to use rmb as much as he does since i can't change stances as quick and i might use ice skills by mistake, so if you have high ping you can skip rmb when using your cool downs

If you're using ice build then you should change into burn build. (I can outdps ice build FMs 100ap higher than me with ease while having 200 ping) Atleast until the new skill system is implemented.

 

Edit: speaking of the new skill system, they are removing fire fury and adding a 14(?) Seconds cooldown to dragonblaze so your rotation won't even exist anymore >.>

thank you~ I'm ganna have to try this when I get home.

I normally play with 300 Ping so I'll have to skip some RBM/LBM but I'm sure this will be much better than what I'm doing now.

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Tufa   

FM has become a depressing class.  I rarely pvp anymore.  No matter how much I gear up, I just can't seem to withstand the insta-hits paralysis from the melee classes especially, but even the cat kd is hard to survive and a near death sentence in 6v6.  I don't think I can swallow another nerf,and I'm just not a big alt guy.  

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Zerecas   

Unless you're a whale FM else, what you pretty much doing in 6v6 is healing yourself up and freeze tanking.

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9 hours ago, Egoist00 said:

Do you guys have any video of lvl 55 force master?, seems impossible to find for me XD

 

 

Here's a video for pve and the use of dragonchar (and he isnt even max gear) 

Also his channel has more FM videos, although the way he pvp's is not that great, atleast not compared to people like jaesung (even after months of not playing the game) 

 

Here's a 5 hour video of jaesung in pvp with the new skill patch :)

Edit: skip to 1:20:00  for the force master part

 

I'm sure you can find more if you type 기공사 in youtube search bar

 

 

Edited by sephy Kun

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23 minutes ago, Kichi said:

so should i hope buff for ice build? finally?

Oh yea, it's a massive buff, Specially if you have the soul badges. You can basically stay in ice rain phase almost the entire time which is also buffed in damage and in practicality (you dont have to wait for the ice rain to fall down) 

According to jaesung though, every FM in KR is using burn build so its probably even better still

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Half   

Ok ok ok, so many stuff to write now after my last post. So let's start:

On 6.3.2017 at 5:37 PM, hwalien said:

My HM9 FM stands at around 680 AP.

I've done 0 research about FM builds(PVP, PVE).

My skill rotation in PVE, I would say about 70% LBM, 25% F and 5% others mixed with few defensive skills and burn things.

PVP : 60% LBM, 20% F, 10% 1, 5 % other with defensive skills.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing as FM but still I'm pulling aggro more than half the time in PVE. I'm killing more than I die in PVP(normally does 3 x more damage than what i take). 

 

I can't say if FM need improvement or not since I don't know how to play as one. But one thing for sure is that if I run into an FM who plays like i do, as long as I'm not play as FM, it will be a easy win.

What? You pull aggro? With this skillrotation I would out dps you with more then 100AP less - easily. That was my skillrotation befor I reached level 50 and while I had to learn which spells I have and how I can use them. Nothing against you, but you could make much higher damage.

On 6.3.2017 at 6:05 PM, sephy Kun said:

For some reason when i play frost build i always get the aggro as well, yet i do two times the damage when i use burn build but i don't get aggro with it o.o

If you made half dmg of burning build with frost build, you played like hwalien - "wrong".  It's like one person who said with burning build his Blazing Beam hits like 25k dmg while Force Blast (stage 4 for frost fm) hits like 10k damage. He was true, but he also can't read the skills correctly. Against frozen targets Force Blast hits stronger then twice the normal damage - should be around 22-24k dmg. It's less then Blazing Beam, ofcourse, but therefor you have a burst phase at frost build (and you can decrease cd of burstphase). So even if you play with correct build und rotation really bad, you shouldn't make only half of burning build damage.

On 6.3.2017 at 6:43 PM, sephy Kun said:

(I can outdps ice build FMs 100ap higher than me with ease while having 200 ping)

And I can out dps burning FMs (with frost build) 100ap higher then me with ease ... but frost build is more ping depend and even a single lagspike while ice rain decrease your damage. That's the difference. I go very often F8 and see nearly no ice FM. Even if you see 3 frost FM per month, how you can be sure that's all what frost FM can do?

23 hours ago, Leodore said:

non-burst classes

FM has few bursts, but you get cc't too often to use the full power of them.

6 hours ago, sephy Kun said:

Oh yea, it's a massive buff, Specially if you have the soul badges. You can basically stay in ice rain phase almost the entire time which is also buffed in damage and in practicality (you dont have to wait for the ice rain to fall down) 

It's not a massive buff, only a little damage buff, but also a gamplay nerf!

With sooner patches we can use ice rain phase nearly nonstop befor we reach lvl 55 content (nonstop ice rain is as boring as burning build). We just need the hybrid soul badges. Also 3 (or with blue soul badge only 2) frost FM you can reach nonstop ice rain with perfect teamplay by now. Ok ice rain does little bit more dps, that's the buff. Now you need cold snap not for damage, you need it to make ice rain spamable. That's a nerf. Also a nerf is to use ice rain instantly instead of 2s "waiting time" until it hits down. It's easier to use, but it also makes some moves impossible. Another nerf is that cold snap's uptime is 10s instead of 3x 5s. The decreased cd is ok to make it 10s, but they stole the flexibility ice rain had befor.

 

 

 

I don't wanted to write so much about frost FM, but very very very often people write nonsense about it.

Edited by Half

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ARC1276   
9 hours ago, sephy Kun said:

 

 

Here's a video for pve and the use of dragonchar (and he isnt even max gear) 

Also his channel has more FM videos, although the way he pvp's is not that great, atleast not compared to people like jaesung (even after months of not playing the game) 

 

Here's a 5 hour video of jaesung in pvp with the new skill patch :)

Edit: skip to 1:20:00  for the force master part

 

I'm sure you can find more if you type 기공사 in youtube search bar

 

 

 

 

All the sudden I'm acutally hyped for the new patch. I should really stop taking my sources from the forums.

 

It also seems that FM PVP is going to become viable again! No more having to spec Snowball or Ice Tornado! =^.^= 

 

Buffs here I come! :D

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Lolcakes   

Summoner is not seen at the top of anything and we still get nerf ed. .. don't be a whiner baby.

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20 hours ago, Half said:

If you made half dmg of burning build with frost build, you played like hwalien - "wrong".  It's like one person who said with burning build his Blazing Beam hits like 25k dmg while Force Blast (stage 4 for frost fm) hits like 10k damage. He was true, but he also can't read the skills correctly. Against frozen targets Force Blast hits stronger then twice the normal damage - should be around 22-24k dmg. It's less then Blazing Beam, ofcourse, but therefor you have a burst phase at frost build (and you can decrease cd of burstphase). So even if you play with correct build und rotation really bad, you shouldn't make only half of burning build damage.

https://bnstree.com/tree/FM?b=BJkV0F6qx
this is my build for ice build

i understand the general idea of how to play it. but it's still pretty difficult to play it the right way, and since i have pretty high ping i didn't bother getting used to it :/ that's pretty much why i was doing half the dps of burn build. my point was that i still got the aggro on frost build but i didn't get it on burn build for some reason, so maybe frost skills have some hidden effects that we don't know about >.>

20 hours ago, Half said:

It's not a massive buff, only a little damage buff, but also a gamplay nerf!

With sooner patches we can use ice rain phase nearly nonstop befor we reach lvl 55 content (nonstop ice rain is as boring as burning build).

that is pretty subjective 

for me the lag time between casting and hitting the target is very irritating. removing that will make it a lot more enjoyable for me. i only care about 3 things in pve to make it enjoyable

1- the skills look good 
2- i have the top dps
3- the skill use is smooth
the new ice build basically provides all of that for me, the old one, not so much. but again this is subjective

 

20 hours ago, Half said:

Now you need cold snap not for damage, you need it to make ice rain spamable. That's a nerf

how is this a nerf? you wouldn't use ice rain with the old skill tree without cold snap anyway, or that would be a huge waste of time. but now you can use ice rain+lmb+rmb in the downtime of cold snap, so i wouldn't say it's a nerf really :S
 

 

20 hours ago, Half said:

Also a nerf is to use ice rain instantly instead of 2s "waiting time" until it hits down. It's easier to use, but it also makes some moves impossible.

i don't understand how this is a nerf :S you aren't wasting 2 seconds charging ice rain everytime you want to go into ice rain phase, so i really don't understand this. what kind of moves do you use in the 2 seconds lag of ice rain..?

 

20 hours ago, Half said:

Another nerf is that cold snap's uptime is 10s instead of 3x 5s. The decreased cd is ok to make it 10s, but they stole the flexibility ice rain had befor.

eh.. that depends on the boss and how good the player is. alot of players use 2 cold snaps in a row by mistake and lose out on 1/3 of their burst damage. this is really a problem for people with high ping like me

it's alot more noob friendly, which is good for me since i don't like doing alot of things at once, i'm just trying to relax and have fun.

Edited by sephy Kun

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Half   
8 minutes ago, sephy Kun said:

this is my build for ice build

Your build is not perfect, but still ok. You need HM skill for Force Blast and Ice Rain (to not run out of focus while burst), but that shouldn't half your dps. I think you're right with lag. I think you have 300+ ping, right?

13 minutes ago, sephy Kun said:

that is pretty subjective 

Ofcourse it is, but I really hate it. I love the idea to play with multiple rotations instead of perma ice rain or perma lmb rmb 2.

18 minutes ago, sephy Kun said:

how is this a nerf? you wouldn't use ice rain with the old skill tree without cold snap anyway, or that would be a huge waste of time. but now you can use ice rain+lmb+rmb in the downtime of cold snap, so i wouldn't say it's a nerf really :S

I do in some cases ... for example ToI.

21 minutes ago, sephy Kun said:

i don't understand how this is a nerf :S you aren't wasting 2 seconds charging ice rain everytime you want to go into ice rain phase, so i really don't understand this. what kind of moves do you use in the 2 seconds lag of ice rain..?

For example at boss start (I start to attack 2s earlier) or while boss is immune last 2s I can start to burst or special in pvp (very hard to use, but you can do really nice moves if you master it - I know for most people a bad choice to play with). But you can start damage while you shouldn't be allowed to do it (assasin decoy). Ofcourse you need to know pvp very well or you hit ice rain 2s into a divine veil and heal your opponents lot.

34 minutes ago, sephy Kun said:

eh.. that depends on the boss and how good the player is. alot of players use 2 cold snaps in a row by mistake and lose out on 1/3 of their burst damage. this is really a problem for people with high ping like me

Yeah i Know this ping issue with 2 times cold snap or you try to use cold snap over 5s until you cast it. But with normal ping 3x5s cold snap is still better. If I got interrupted in my burst phase I add 5s or 10s of my rest cold snap to next burst phase to make 20s or 25s burst. Also boss jumped out of cold snap, I can use my next cold snap (very nice for Zakhan for example). And what do you want to do in pvp? I see many people who want to spam cold snap to freeze opponents. With only one impossible (I normaly use it in another way).

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Zedonia   

Some days ago I played around a bit with hybrid frost build -> this one: https://bnstree.com/tree/FM?b=BJbIonTcl

I dont have any frost build badges so I took the double meteor one of course.

 

The problems I see with pure frost build:

 

- you lose double inferno and double meteor

- you have to spam ice rain 3 times/sec to deal more damage than LB/RB/2 in fire build

- without ice rain your damage suffers a lot

 

In fire build, you deal ~ 98% of your damage with fire skills. If you switch to frost build you wont get frost skills to compensate everything because there is no frost version of inferno and meteor. Here you will always have a problem with elemental gear because you cant boost both elemntals at max. I played this build with the hongmoon earring (normally I use fire) because I think more critdmg is better overall for hybrid. Why hybrid anyway?

 

- losing double inferno and double meteor is a too huge dps loss -> thats why I need stage 3 force blast

- stage 3 force blast and stage 4 force blast do almost similar dps under optimal conditions -> with LB and RB specced as shown I create orbs with both skills

- spamming LB/RB/1 in frost build seems not much better to me than spamming F (both elements + dual dragon because I get both orbs)

 

I never had much downtime of cold snap even without any badges. Because of the high number of hits, I got cd resets pretty often. With raven weapon we get even more resets. With many resets the effect of frost build badges will be almost zero. Some cooldown time of cold snap can already be filled with multiple blaze (what is stronger than LB/RB/1 anyway).

 

I'm not entirely sure if that is really better than pure ice build because of no elemtal damage boost. But thats a main problem of frost build anyway: You cant boost both elementals with F. It's also not that good that you can't spam ice rain like dragonchar because ice rain gets interrupted after some seconds if you have cold snap or not. I doubt that is a ping problem but there you lose also damage.

 

Frost build is pretty fun, that's right, but the dps loss against fire build is too much for me to use it.

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ARC1276   
20 hours ago, Lolcakes said:

Summoner is not seen at the top of anything and we still get nerf ed. .. don't be a whiner baby.

You mean besides ToI?

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ARC1276   

I also love how I am complaining about the PVP aspect of FM, specifically 1v1 and ToI, yet everyone here is bringing up PVE. It almost makes me wonder actually read the OP? It does appear some of you did, given the summoner comment, and admittively summoners are also in a bad spot. However they're a 2v1 styled class, so they don't really get much empathy especially since they are such an annoyance to kill in the first place and the fact that they have a stealth counter, reminding us of assassins, a top tier class. 

 

After watching the entirety of both of those videos, I can confidently say that FMs will finally be viable in 1v1 and we can possibly see diamond ranked FMs again.

Edited by ARC1276

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newbiez   

the thing that fm always talked about everytime im party with fm at masts or ec...most of them complaining about block skill...they said why fm doesnt have the same blocking skill like wl...i dont have fm so i not sure about the fm block skill..does it worst blocking skill?

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Zedonia   
3 hours ago, newbiez said:

the thing that fm always talked about everytime im party with fm at masts or ec...most of them complaining about block skill...they said why fm doesnt have the same blocking skill like wl...i dont have fm so i not sure about the fm block skill..does it worst blocking skill?

FM has 2 blocks. First is impact (1). It's a 0,5s block with 1s cd. You have to time it well to be successful. You cant use it in PVE because you cant burn your target with it. So you will lose incredible much damage. The second one (fire tab) has 18s cooldown and blocks one attack for 0,5s. In PVE both blocks are not to hard to pull of and normally fire tab is enough for PVE content. Every class can block somehow so there is no need that a FM blocks everything. Compared with WL the skill is much worse. AS WL you can block for some seconds with almost no cd between. As FM you have to time it very well. It's a huge difference.

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Half   
17 hours ago, Zedonia said:

- without ice rain your damage suffers a lot

Without Ice Rain the frost build makes no sence, so why it is a problem? Bad ping is no fail in design of Ice Rain / frost build, it's a fail in optimization the server/client/network data.

 

You told you're using raven weapon. I can't say how ice build is working with this weapon. I twinked alot, so my FM has no legendary weapon (but 700 AP) and now I'm farming mats to upgrade until legendary 10 (have it in few weeks) and that will be a dps increase (10% more dmg on frost palm). I know we will get hybrid soul badges and I was thinking about double meteor + 1 time cd reduce of cold snap, but I see same problem like you with elementary accessoirs. A frost skill like "blizzard" (same like meteor shower, but frost skill) would be nice, since we need to use elementary power. Instead of making frost build cooler, they just decrease down time of ice rain - boring. :(

 

But your hybrid build works not very well, except your Ice Rain has an uptime next to 100%. In other cases you will loose too much dps by using Force Blast stage 3 instead of stage 4 (damage difference for me is 2k -> 16k ... 14k dps loose by spamming this rotation). Also I see in your Build, that you haven't played often with frost. :P Look at snowball and compare tier 3 and 4. It was just a fast test skilltree, right? ^^

18 hours ago, Zedonia said:

It's also not that good that you can't spam ice rain like dragonchar because ice rain gets interrupted after some seconds if you have cold snap or not. I doubt that is a ping problem but there you lose also damage.

That's definetly a ping problem. With no ping issues (yes I have it from time to time ... a wounder with this optimization :D) you will see no interruption. Cold Snap has so low global cooldown (0,1s I think) that it makes Ice Rain not slower.

 

@newbiez: Idk why people are complaining about block skills. To block in masts you just need to tab block boss. It's a question of timing, because you have 0,5s time to do it. I think most FMs are just not experienced enough to know when they have to block. Problem is, boss hit box is closer to you then the boss itself (so you have to block earlier). But Impact block [1] has another issue -> it's a defensive offensive skill. That means you can get deflected befor you blocked anything (problem against deflect spin to wins in pvp). I would love to see a parry pen tag on this skill.

 

Btw with frost skill you can use Impact Block and loose only a few dps compared to burning build (which goes to be unplayable as long as you haven't a 2nd burning fm in party). For first boss in Nexus this skill is really nice while tanking. You can block every bleeding attack, you can block running, you can block saws and you have kd or daze skilled (instead of tab-block).  But in most cases tab block is great enough.

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Zedonia   
2 hours ago, Half said:

Without Ice Rain the frost build makes no sence, so why it is a problem?

My bad, it was not clearly written. I meant when you wont ice rain because of cold snap cooldown.

2 hours ago, Half said:

You told you're using raven weapon.

No no, I was summing what will be the gameplay with the weapon. But well, I got it now so I can tell about some gameplay changes with the weapon. With raven weapon you can trash all your frost build badges because you get cd resets extremely often. Sometimes I saw the reset incoming (6s buff before) while still using cold snap. In around 8/10 tries I had the reset before burst phase was over. With burst phase I mean C->V-> X->FX>F-> frost F (for elemental buff)-> V->ice rain phase. So most of the time I dont even used force blast or LB/RM more than 1 or 2 times. Multiple blaze is a dps loss anyway with raven weapon on single targets. With this setup I dont think the skill change of cold snap (10s duration but single use) will affect the gameplay too much. Another problem of frost build is the BT soul shield. It buffs fire build heavily (double inferno damage and LB/RB + 20%) while doing nothing for frost build (double snowball damage is nothing). To make frost build relevant we definitely need frost skills as comarison for all fire builds (meteor like mentioned from you for example). Pure frost build is weaker by a lot now with endgear and hybrid suffers because you cant buff fire and ice elemental at the same time.

2 hours ago, Half said:

my FM has no legendary weapon (but 700 AP) and now I'm farming mats to upgrade until legendary 10 (have it in few weeks) and that will be a dps increase

Wait, you are playing with scorpio weapon until you can upgrade to stage 10 legendary? o.O

2 hours ago, Half said:

I know we will get hybrid soul badges and I was thinking about double meteor + 1 time cd reduce of cold snap

This is no possible combination.

2 hours ago, Half said:

Also I see in your Build, that you haven't played often with frost. :P Look at snowball and compare tier 3 and 4. It was just a fast test skilltree, right? ^^

Yeah, I didnt notices this but I got enough skill points so it wasnt a problem.^^

2 hours ago, Half said:

That's definetly a ping problem. With no ping issues (yes I have it from time to time ... a wounder with this optimization :D) you will see no interruption. Cold Snap has so low global cooldown (0,1s I think) that it makes Ice Rain not slower.

Hm ok than this is the problem. I am never be able to spam it like dragonchar causing a dps loss. This way I can never reach dps of LB/RM/2 from fire build.

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