PatchKid

Destroyer HM Stoneshield

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PatchKid   

As a KFM, using stoneshield in Arena was a liability for Destroyers.  It allowed me to use Triple Kick.  The new HM stoneshield prevents me from using every single skill and gives them a free 20-30% heal and complete immunity to every skill.  It is completely immune to all defense piercing abilities.  I've tried numerous skills, but cannot figure out how to stop them from getting basically full HP back.

 

On top of this, they are 99% immune to all of my CCs.  I can knock them over, but they can avoid being tech chased with 3 different CC invulnerability skills with short CDs.

 

Fights go like this - Destroyer does stuff to deal a little damage, so do I, they heal up, they continue to do a little damage, and eventually the time runs out.  Almost all of my matches end with a timeout against Destroyers who just run around spinning, healing, spinning, stunning and doing a little damage, spinning... grabbing me 4-5 times in the match.  They win because they are basically immune to every effort and CC in my arsenal.

 

Any tips?

Edited by PatchKid

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N3ro   

use kd > actually time your techchase properly > have them tab or blue buff

redo

redo > kill

 

tactic

 

Also you got hm z while they got shield. Don't see how that makes the matchup worse than before. Also a half decent destroyer would not have used the shield before for you to tripple kick him either. Instead they most likely would have run the stun shield and use that in combos.

Tripple kick does not seem very good against destros. You can use the normal one to disable their charges when they stand on emberstomp, but thats really about it.

Edited by N3ro

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N3ro   
4 minutes ago, Phytolacca said:

It heals 10%, same as ur z. But ur z is MUCH MUCH better as a skill. An aoe defense  piercing pulling stun that heals u instantlly? geez and u complain about a skill like hm shield which btw isnt even used against most match ups because how worthless it is.

 

Honestly idk how you as a kfm hav trouble with a destroyer...lol that should be one of ur easiest matchups.

 

My tip to u would be q/e into their spin for a free 6sec 100% evade chance. Or you could just spec ur block to giv u a full second iframe if they hit into ur block (which btw isn't hard at all considering u block spin itself LOL

That too, or you block after blue buff is used and most destros will either spin or charge into your face, or both. Still don't think you want to use blue buff. Seems like a waste to me. Ice is useful for playing around tab escapes and some sticky situations. You only have 1 tab yourself after all and i don't think you need the damage against destros.

Edited by N3ro

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10 hours ago, PatchKid said:

As a KFM, using stoneshield in Arena was a liability for Destroyers.  It allowed me to use Triple Kick.  The new HM stoneshield prevents me from using every single skill and gives them a free 20-30% heal and complete immunity to every skill.  It is completely immune to all defense piercing abilities.  I've tried numerous skills, but cannot figure out how to stop them from getting basically full HP back.

 

On top of this, they are 99% immune to all of my CCs.  I can knock them over, but they can avoid being tech chased with 3 different CC invulnerability skills with short CDs.

 

Fights go like this - Destroyer does stuff to deal a little damage, so do I, they heal up, they continue to do a little damage, and eventually the time runs out.  Almost all of my matches end with a timeout against Destroyers who just run around spinning, healing, spinning, stunning and doing a little damage, spinning... grabbing me 4-5 times in the match.  They win because they are basically immune to every effort and CC in my arsenal.

 

Any tips?

It heals 10%, same as ur z. But ur z is MUCH MUCH better as a skill. An aoe defense  piercing pulling stun that heals u instantlly? geez and u complain about a skill like hm shield which btw isnt even used against most match ups because how worthless it is.

 

Honestly idk how you as a kfm hav trouble with a destroyer...lol that should be one of ur easiest matchups.

 

My tip to u would be q/e into their spin for a free 6sec 100% evade chance. Or you could just spec ur block to giv u a full second iframe if they hit into ur block (which btw isn't hard at all considering u block spin itself LOL

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PatchKid   

Are we talking about the same ability?  Stone Shield on the skill planner for Destroyers all say it heals for 20% at a minimum.  Some varieties heal for 25% and others have 1% additional healing every time they're hit.  It's not 10% unless the skill planner is wrong...

 

8 hours ago, N3ro said:

use kd

Which one?  I tried three different KDs including, and Flying Slam knock-up and all my other defense break / piercing abilities.

 

Leg Sweep - did nothing - blocked

Tiger's Pounce - did nothing - blocked

Avenging Fist - did nothing - blocked (doesn't penetrate defense)

 

Triple Kick (stun) - did nothing - blocked

Flying Slam (knock-up) - did nothing

Rising Dragon (pull + stun) - did nothing - completely ignored and also Stone Shield prevented the 10% heal

 

All of these (except Avenging Fist) break / penetrate defense skills.  None of them worked on the destroyer.  It heals for much more than 10%.

 

8 hours ago, Phytolacca said:

Honestly idk how you as a kfm hav trouble with a destroyer...lol that should be one of ur easiest matchups.

 

My tip to u would be q/e into their spin for a free 6sec 100% evade chance. Or you could just spec ur block to giv u a full second iframe if they hit into ur block (which btw isn't hard at all considering u block spin itself LOL

Destroyer used to be one of my better matchups.  The only ones I struggle with are the high HM destroyers with HM Stone Shield.  I definitely don't die to them easily, especially persistence destroyers.  They just end up doing more damage before the timer runs out because while they are immune to basically every CC (except for when they have to just spin and stall when I can KD them), I am not.  They get to put a tiny bit more damage on me.  When the timer runs out, they usually win by about 10k points.  It's the "Ignores defense skill disable" perk that was added to HM version of Stone Shield which basically makes them invulnerable to any method of preventing the 20%+ heal.

Edited by PatchKid

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Just now, skelettbus said:

lul ever played KFM? their Q/E goes to the side, not behind, and their ss is slow. Quite hard to hit anything from behind as KFM. I agree on other classes, Bm, BD, Sin all have q/e behind target so it is much easier for them.Hell even FM can easily do that.

no i never played kfm and i didnt mean q and e 'dash' (i guess thats how their dodge is called?) but u can do many tricks to get behind not just hit the shield straight on -.-''

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3 hours ago, 821031_1452549945 said:

literaly shield blocks only in front lmao. u can just dash behind and kd .-.

lul ever played KFM? their Q/E goes to the side, not behind, and their ss is slow. Quite hard to hit anything from behind as KFM. I agree on other classes, Bm, BD, Sin all have q/e behind target so it is much easier for them.Hell even FM can easily do that.

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N3ro   

I really don't understand the big fuss over that block skill. The stun shield is just infinitely better in most cases. If destros use the other shield against me (as a sin) i pretty much don't give a *cricket* about it. And no i don't q behind and use a cc it does not work, because sins q is like the biggest garbage q you could ever imagine (especially the 8m one lul, yeah i still use it cause 8m is makes it good, but the annimation is even more terrible than the 3m one, might actually get buffed with the next level patch as both trees get merched, but idk for sure). Either you shadow slip, or you use your x dagger. But thats pretty much it. You could also ss behind them and then shadow slash them or something, but i also would not necessarily expect that to work either. And ss'ing to proc your shadow slip is also really telegraphic. What you could do is ss threw them, then they would still look at you (probably) and then you shadow slip as soon as they turned. Still, i dont understand why you feel the need to throw skills into the shield. It's not necessary. If you don't have a way to deal with it, don't deal with it. They don't deal with you either by using that shield. Yes, they also have emberstomp and redspin and blue buff and an iframe skill and ss and normal spin. But really destros weakness is just their offenses. Most of the time its super easy to counter everything they could possibly throw at you except their trololol out of fight opening and bug abusing (they cant even do anything with their shield up unless they cancel it). Essentially all you have to do is sit a few meters away from them and spam q. Done! 95% of their openers are gone, because you sit there and spam one key. Now they can only throw an axe at you (witch you block) or ss towards you and do something else (witch i don't get why there is bearly a handful of destros on whole EU that gets that they cannot just keep charging your face over and over again instead of actually doing something different... i cant spam q if you ss into my face anymore). Always love those times when i cancel my stealth and press woodblock and they ram my face, then i ss and cancel my stealth again, spam q and they 1 into my face again.

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PatchKid   

So, the main "fuss" is about how incredible powerful destroyer "stall" game becomes when the have an indestructible shield that lasts 8 seconds and heals 20%. You have to somehow get directly behind them to disable (which is not super easy for some classes) on top of having 2 CC escapes and 2 other CC immunities.

 

A stall destroyer can basically do very little the whole match as long as they put just enough damage out, then stall until timer. It's almost as bad as assassins used to be with their poison + stealth game until too many HM skills were unlocked to negate that tactic.

 

They get you with the opener, use grab off CD every chance for the entire duration to add to total damage and delay the fight while CD timers are wearing off, cycling CC immunities and Stone Shield with CC breaks. It ensures they never reach dangerous HP levels, and they just whittle away until the time buzzes.

 

It's incredibly boring, but very effective against classes like KFM.

 

I will see if I can ss behind them as suggested, but that does sound tricky. I've definitely tried to just move behind and CC, but they were always blocked.

Edited by PatchKid

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I've done a lot of arena matches. I can definitely tell you that destroyer can stall longer than any other class. The only class that can possibly compete is a sin but I'll tell you 4 things that make destroyers so much fun to fight. 

 

 

1: Typhoon: Every 5 hits, you get stunned. They can use their tab to chase you and continue to red spin or just press Q every other second. I've been chased around the arena by a destroyer using red spin. It's legit one of the most cancerous things in existence.  

Cannot be used as a joint attack

Inflicts 2 sec stun on 5 hits

User resist damage and status effects for 1 sec

Costs 10 focus on consecutive use

Removes snare

User resist stun, knockdown, daze, knockback, pull, phantom grip, airborne

User resist slow for 3 sec on resist

Penetrates defense, deflect

2: Emberstomp:  Now emberstomp is one of the most amazing skills that a destroyer has. Brother Hajoon died for this hongmoon skill. This skill is what makes destroyers able to stall as long as they do. 8 seconds long with a beautiful cooldown of 45 seconds. This is such an amazing skill. :D Only the top destroyers know how to stall properly using this skill ;)

 

User within the area resist stun, knockdown, daze, knockback

 

3: Stone Shield: Amazing amazing mechanic that you can use while wallhugging to stall out the game. This is a very important HM skill to have as a destroyer. If you don't use this, you're honestly playing it wrong. This is what the good destroyers call outplayed.*** DONT FORGET*** You can CC while you're using this shield so if you get really bored while holding this bad boy, just throw a Blitz or a Ram ;)

Inflicts 12m knockback followed by 3 sec knockdown

Inflicts 3 sec knockdown to enemies that resist knockback

Inflicts 3 sec knockdown to enemies can be joint attacked with knockback

Heals the user 20% of their health over 4 sec

Recovers 20 focus on block

Penetrates deflect

 

 

4: Grab. Now I know you're very confused by this skill and wondering how is this a stalling skill?? When a destroyer uses this skill, make sure to say choke me harder daddy. They will hold you for the entire duration. 6 seconds ;) mmmm so yummy. We love it! You know the best part??? They can hold you the entire duration and have a free opener on you. They can do whatever they want ;) You're a submissive little pvper and you have to do whatever he/she says ;) I just love being grabbed. They can even grab you when you block but that's not even the best part! Those 6 seconds, grab goes off cooldown 12 secs after they finish holding you :O Woah... insane right? 12 sec cooldown on a grab?!? Wow I'm sooo glad that they included this! :D

 

Enemy has 10% decreased defense stat for 6 sec on taking damaage while inflicted by grab. Stacks up to 5 times

Enemy takes 10% focus damage on taking damage while inflicted by grab

Frontal block while holding non-large type enemies

Breaks defense skills

 

 

 

 

You're welcome <3 Happy stalling!

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Valiant   
1 hour ago, Exaration said:

I've done a lot of arena matches. I can definitely tell you that destroyer can stall longer than any other class. The only class that can possibly compete is a sin but I'll tell you 4 things that make destroyers so much fun to fight. 

 

 

1: Typhoon: Every 5 hits, you get stunned. They can use their tab to chase you and continue to red spin or just press Q every other second. I've been chased around the arena by a destroyer using red spin. It's legit one of the most cancerous things in existence.  

Cannot be used as a joint attack

Inflicts 2 sec stun on 5 hits

User resist damage and status effects for 1 sec

Costs 10 focus on consecutive use

Removes snare

User resist stun, knockdown, daze, knockback, pull, phantom grip, airborne

User resist slow for 3 sec on resist

Penetrates defense, deflect

2: Emberstomp:  Now emberstomp is one of the most amazing skills that a destroyer has. Brother Hajoon died for this hongmoon skill. This skill is what makes destroyers able to stall as long as they do. 8 seconds long with a beautiful cooldown of 45 seconds. This is such an amazing skill. :D Only the top destroyers know how to stall properly using this skill ;)

 

User within the area resist stun, knockdown, daze, knockback

 

3: Stone Shield: Amazing amazing mechanic that you can use while wallhugging to stall out the game. This is a very important HM skill to have as a destroyer. If you don't use this, you're honestly playing it wrong. This is what the good destroyers call outplayed.*** DONT FORGET*** You can CC while you're using this shield so if you get really bored while holding this bad boy, just throw a Blitz or a Ram ;)

Inflicts 12m knockback followed by 3 sec knockdown

Inflicts 3 sec knockdown to enemies that resist knockback

Inflicts 3 sec knockdown to enemies can be joint attacked with knockback

Heals the user 20% of their health over 4 sec

Recovers 20 focus on block

Penetrates deflect

 

 

4: Grab. Now I know you're very confused by this skill and wondering how is this a stalling skill?? When a destroyer uses this skill, make sure to say choke me harder daddy. They will hold you for the entire duration. 6 seconds ;) mmmm so yummy. We love it! You know the best part??? They can hold you the entire duration and have a free opener on you. They can do whatever they want ;) You're a submissive little pvper and you have to do whatever he/she says ;) I just love being grabbed. They can even grab you when you block but that's not even the best part! Those 6 seconds, grab goes off cooldown 12 secs after they finish holding you :O Woah... insane right? 12 sec cooldown on a grab?!? Wow I'm sooo glad that they included this! :D

 

Enemy has 10% decreased defense stat for 6 sec on taking damaage while inflicted by grab. Stacks up to 5 times

Enemy takes 10% focus damage on taking damage while inflicted by grab

Frontal block while holding non-large type enemies

Breaks defense skills

 

 

 

 

You're welcome <3 Happy stalling!

Red spin (Q)

Make Destroyer slow in their movment and if one hit is missed you won't get that nice stun, It cost 10 focus and Destroyer doesn't even able to regain them that easy,

Beside not to mention if you did slow destroyer during red spin he won't able to move at all, And Worst part you saying that skill is good because you can use blue spin beside it to stall more, Are you for real ? Red spin cost 10+20 of Blue spin like that is 30/100 of focus gone empty.

 

Emberstomp (3) What I got to say here, Use any Pull or any knockup then they are out, Beside Destroyer doesn't have emberstomp that make them cannot be marked like warlock, So please you talking about stall for the worst dps class in game while you forget that warlock got same skill with way way bettter op dps.

 

Stoneshield (4) Don't worry yourself much about it, We going to get a nice immune every 24 second beside it :)

And if you are sad about a little shield that work every 24 second then you should be sad about BM or KFM who can spam block.

 

Grab(F) I don't know why are you sad about a skill that stall for 6 second and it require a cc enemy to active on while BD can pretty much do the same without require to cc you, They can bladestorm you from 100-60, 40-0 with that bladestorm skill easily, And they can just put you in unconscious status for 30 second with just quick click.

 

 

And if you are sad about Destroyer, What about Class like BD who got like 3 different types of immune, Spin, 3 short Iframes, Grab that require no cc and grab escape ?

What about FM who got shield for 10 , 5 second freeze shield , Iframes , Spamable melee counter, Freeze and chill, ofcourse they can get stuff like assassin freeze bomb too.

Warlock who got spamable block, Emberstomp like, Powerful dps, Immune skill.

BM the god of tank, Block, Immune, Iframe, many Iframe skills on their attacks , Powerful dps/

Assassin who can just hide forever and loop into poke and hide game, Freeze for 8 seconds bombs, Flower, Iframes, Counter.

 

If you stand for a moment and see Destroyer skills beside other classes, You would notice that Destroyer skills can get broken easily by a knockup or knockdown or pull.

 

Like for example to counter Emberstomp, Knockup or Pull, Counter shield you can use skills that pierce defense skills , Tab Spin can be broken by knockdown or pierce parry.

 

While Iframes, Immunes, Unmarked enemy thing that warlock got, Freeze and all of that cannot be bypass at all :)

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N3ro   

Yeah, they (can) stall a lot but most of the stalling is not all that effective for anything but stalling. And then theyd loose on time.

 

Emberstomp is op yeah. While in theory you can tab swap them out of emberstomp for instance you have to time it properly and good destros usually will ss that or use their shield inside stomp or whatever to prevent that. Also one of the reason im not even using ice mine anymore, because i dont want to play the stall game and when you ice mine them you prevent them from wasting x y z skills as they are afraid that you are gonna tab swap them, while really i just cancel stealth and watch them use their skills inside stomp. And ofc spam q cause you always spam q against destros. Lul

 

Though sometimes i wish id run icebomb against blue buff. However i also believe thats obvious to good destros anyways as thats like one of the only things that can still hit them with the buff and you first have to put it down and then explode it. Kd bomb is gonna be really cool though next patch.

 

Personally i also think the knockback redspin is far superior to the stall one. At least against sins. And the stun stone shield is better for sure. You can also make great use of it as an opener in close range when you charges are disabled. And it being brakeable does not really matter as long as you dont let people break it. I have to get close to him to break it anyways. As long as they dont use it when my shadowslip is already active they are fine and ive seen really good destros use it as a bait when my shadowslip is active and they would then stun me on using shadowslip. But that is like a really rare thing.

 

 

 

There you have a bunch of games against destros too. The first game is pretty cool. So yeah it 'works' without stalling too much except you fight mr b, witch is like the only destro on whole eu id loose to most of the time, even sometimes on his low level plep that does not even have hm stomp...

Edited by N3ro

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+ I play soul fighter so you argument is completely invalid Kappa .

On 3/6/2017 at 11:09 AM, Valiant said:

Red spin (Q)

Make Destroyer slow in their movment and if one hit is missed you won't get that nice stun, It cost 10 focus and Destroyer doesn't even able to regain them that easy,

Beside not to mention if you did slow destroyer during red spin he won't able to move at all, And Worst part you saying that skill is good because you can use blue spin beside it to stall more, Are you for real ? Red spin cost 10+20 of Blue spin like that is 30/100 of focus gone empty.

 

Emberstomp (3) What I got to say here, Use any Pull or any knockup then they are out, Beside Destroyer doesn't have emberstomp that make them cannot be marked like warlock, So please you talking about stall for the worst dps class in game while you forget that warlock got same skill with way way bettter op dps.

 

Stoneshield (4) Don't worry yourself much about it, We going to get a nice immune every 24 second beside it :)

And if you are sad about a little shield that work every 24 second then you should be sad about BM or KFM who can spam block.

 

Grab(F) I don't know why are you sad about a skill that stall for 6 second and it require a cc enemy to active on while BD can pretty much do the same without require to cc you, They can bladestorm you from 100-60, 40-0 with that bladestorm skill easily, And they can just put you in unconscious status for 30 second with just quick click.

 

 

And if you are sad about Destroyer, What about Class like BD who got like 3 different types of immune, Spin, 3 short Iframes, Grab that require no cc and grab escape ?

What about FM who got shield for 10 , 5 second freeze shield , Iframes , Spamable melee counter, Freeze and chill, ofcourse they can get stuff like assassin freeze bomb too.

Warlock who got spamable block, Emberstomp like, Powerful dps, Immune skill.

BM the god of tank, Block, Immune, Iframe, many Iframe skills on their attacks , Powerful dps/

Assassin who can just hide forever and loop into poke and hide game, Freeze for 8 seconds bombs, Flower, Iframes, Counter.

 

If you stand for a moment and see Destroyer skills beside other classes, You would notice that Destroyer skills can get broken easily by a knockup or knockdown or pull.

 

Like for example to counter Emberstomp, Knockup or Pull, Counter shield you can use skills that pierce defense skills , Tab Spin can be broken by knockdown or pierce parry.

 

While Iframes, Immunes, Unmarked enemy thing that warlock got, Freeze and all of that cannot be bypass at all :)

 

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Valiant   
On 3/9/2017 at 4:43 PM, Exaration said:

+ I play soul fighter so you argument is completely invalid Kappa .

 

So you telling you play SF who got like 6 different Iframe with short CD, Powerful 100-0 combos , Immune for 5 second every 30 second and ofcourse block can't defeat destroyer ?

Alright :)

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On 3/10/2017 at 8:16 AM, Valiant said:

So you telling you play SF who got like 6 different Iframe with short CD, Powerful 100-0 combos , Immune for 5 second every 30 second and ofcourse block can't defeat destroyer ?

Alright :)

LUL you should try SF and fight Arashel or Cellular or even Sanctioned which rarely plays. You'll see a different light to things. It's legit one of the dumbest matchups. Power 100-0 combos...Let's talk about destroyers having 2 escapes? Do you want to mention that? How about typhoon that makes it so I cannot do a single ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ thing against them? 5 sec immune gets broken if they typhoon on it with no punishment. Oh you want to block as a SF? It's not an actual elbow smash like KFM, instead its a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ counter. So let me just hold down the F button as a destroyer and knee your counter. 6 different iframes with short CD? You must be really new to the matchup. If I Q/E around them, they get a free engage or they just put down emberstomp and wait there. Anything else you need me to destroy in your invalid argument? 

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