DevilTDriver

Warlocks are way too necessary.

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Warlocks are in demand in all dungeons and every other recruit I'm seeing is saying Warlock preferred or even warlock only. In raids, having 4 warlocks or more benefits the DPS greatly. The Warlock was the difference between meeting the enrage timer and not. It's so important I can see someone having to log into an alt over their main, just so they have what's honestly an overpowered buff to complete something in half the time.

 

Is there going to be an alternative to this in the future? I know a nerf isn't going to happen, before WLs had a 3min CD and SB wasn't a big deal at all. Can there be a berserker potion that people can use in PVE that shares a global cooldown with SB?

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Well anything that was in the game before warlocks release in Korea never needed SB (for obvious reasons)... its only needed nowadays because everyone saves their main dps for sb and only care about having pretty much entire rage timers left over after every battle... yet the skill itself really doesn't do much:
User and party members recover 100% focus
Soulburn refreshes cooldown of skills (some skills are excluded hence why i didn't say all skills)
Soulburn increases critical hit damage by 50% (this i would assume is 50% of your base crit damage not your gear dependent number)

Soulburn Increases movespeed by 20% (never got why this was attached to it since when is movespeed needed outside of maybe shroom dungeons)
Awakened skills available for use (this part we all know)
Even as a lock player i never understood why people consider it a god tier skill.. when its honestly not that great... (since you have to land crits for the crit damage to matter... movespeed is wasted and skill reset is wasted since most people save their major skills for sb anyway or are using baleful negating the point of reset... )

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11 minutes ago, Dr SoulReaper said:

Well anything that was in the game before warlocks release in Korea never needed SB (for obvious reasons)... its only needed nowadays because everyone saves their main dps for sb and only care about having pretty much entire rage timers left over after every battle... yet the skill itself really doesn't do much:
User and party members recover 100% focus
Soulburn refreshes cooldown of skills (some skills are excluded hence why i didn't say all skills)
Soulburn increases critical hit damage by 50% (this i would assume is 50% of your base crit damage not your gear dependent number)

Soulburn Increases movespeed by 20% (never got why this was attached to it since when is movespeed needed outside of maybe shroom dungeons)
Awakened skills available for use (this part we all know)
Even as a lock player i never understood why people consider it a god tier skill.. when its honestly not that great... (since you have to land crits for the crit damage to matter... movespeed is wasted and skill reset is wasted since most people save their major skills for sb anyway or are using baleful negating the point of reset... )

Its the fact that it resets almost all of your skills and opens up awakened skills which do a great deal of damage.

My alt FM is garbage and with bb+sf, i go from like 15k/s to like 30k-40k/s by just holding down a button.

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NineArt   
4 hours ago, Dr SoulReaper said:

..Well anything that was in the game before warlocks release in Korea never needed SB (for obvious reasons)... its only needed nowadays because everyone saves their main dps for sb and only care about having pretty much entire rage timers left over after every battle... yet the skill itself really doesn't do much:
User and party members recover 100% focus
Soulburn refreshes cooldown of skills (some skills are excluded hence why i didn't say all skills)
Soulburn increases critical hit damage by 50% (this i would assume is 50% of your base crit damage not your gear dependent number)

Soulburn Increases movespeed by 20% (never got why this was attached to it since when is movespeed needed outside of maybe shroom dungeons)
Awakened skills available for use (this part we all know)
Even as a lock player i never understood why people consider it a god tier skill.. when its honestly not that great... (since you have to land crits for the crit damage to matter... movespeed is wasted and skill reset is wasted since most people save their major skills for sb anyway or are using baleful negating the point of reset... )

......SB is a big deal lol most people are getting the idea of Crit stats now and also awakened skills themselves alone are enough to say its a god tier skill if you do 4 man with a WL says it all when the meter goes nuts. For some classes it does make a major difference and im only saying this cause i haven't experienced SB on every class.

Edited by NineArt

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4 hours ago, Dr SoulReaper said:

Well anything that was in the game before warlocks release in Korea never needed SB (for obvious reasons)... its only needed nowadays because everyone saves their main dps for sb and only care about having pretty much entire rage timers left over after every battle... yet the skill itself really doesn't do much:
User and party members recover 100% focus
Soulburn refreshes cooldown of skills (some skills are excluded hence why i didn't say all skills)
Soulburn increases critical hit damage by 50% (this i would assume is 50% of your base crit damage not your gear dependent number)

Soulburn Increases movespeed by 20% (never got why this was attached to it since when is movespeed needed outside of maybe shroom dungeons)
Awakened skills available for use (this part we all know)
Even as a lock player i never understood why people consider it a god tier skill.. when its honestly not that great... (since you have to land crits for the crit damage to matter... movespeed is wasted and skill reset is wasted since most people save their major skills for sb anyway or are using baleful negating the point of reset... )

The fact that soulburn/blue buff saves you 1-2 minutes off enrage timers means a lot in some dungeons. It can mean a total mechanic skip. Mechanic skip also often means safe and effective run.

 

Let have Acrimor in Naryu Foundry as an example. Here is my average 6-man runs:

 

-Average AP, without WL or Sin: Four phases of driving - Total time: 8-9 minutes

 

-Average AP, with WL or Sin or both: Two or three phases of driving. Total times: 7-8 minutes

 

-High AP, without WL or Sin: Two phases of driving then burst - Total time: 6-7 minutes

 

-High AP, with WL or Sin or both: One phase of driving then burst - Total time: 4-5 minutes

 

-Whale AP with 1st anniversary event AP buff and WL/Sin: burst only - Total time: 3-4 minutes

 

-Jonathan and Bethany party in test server: /kill. Total time: 1-2 second, depend on how fast they type and press Enter.

Edited by Alysha Hawkeye

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slowcow   
7 hours ago, Dr SoulReaper said:

Well anything that was in the game before warlocks release in Korea never needed SB (for obvious reasons)... its only needed nowadays because everyone saves their main dps for sb and only care about having pretty much entire rage timers left over after every battle... yet the skill itself really doesn't do much:
User and party members recover 100% focus
Soulburn refreshes cooldown of skills (some skills are excluded hence why i didn't say all skills)
Soulburn increases critical hit damage by 50% (this i would assume is 50% of your base crit damage not your gear dependent number)

Soulburn Increases movespeed by 20% (never got why this was attached to it since when is movespeed needed outside of maybe shroom dungeons)
Awakened skills available for use (this part we all know)
Even as a lock player i never understood why people consider it a god tier skill.. when its honestly not that great... (since you have to land crits for the crit damage to matter... movespeed is wasted and skill reset is wasted since most people save their major skills for sb anyway or are using baleful negating the point of reset... )

Awakened skills are so good that's why

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SadFace   

I really like the new sb. The old one not only had 3 min cd but the awakened skills didn't play much of a difference. So before they changed sb i felt inferior to sins and kfm with their blue buff. Though now there are so many wl that i can't feel myself so special anymore =( 

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babeln   

problem is, that for WL, sb gives nearly nothing, if you run shadow and have badge... i refuse to sb in ssp for clanies, who have raven weapon, or are super bursty class like FM, cause i steal myself only of pp

in dungeons ofcourse, glad to sb for you, but when comes to short fights, and my contribution, not anymore, lol

 

so, to answer OP, you dont realise it so much, cause you are WL, but other class gets changed skills to super pew pew, not us, f.e. FM without warlock is laugh low dps class, SF as well

shadow build - 50perc more cdmg, nothing else, frost - 50perc more cdmg+more dragoncalls, there its better (but still, killing stuff under 5s makes you contribute least dps of all classes, which you are buffing)

 

i am way more happy for blue buff, than for my soulburn tbh

Edited by babeln

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10 hours ago, Dotimus said:

i'm expecting the gunner to come with a sb style buff

That would be a terrible idea and would just mean WL 2.0 which is totally missing my point.

6 minutes ago, babeln said:

problem is, that for WL, sb gives nearly nothing, if you run shadow and have badge... i refuse to sb in ssp for clanies, who have raven weapon, or are super bursty class like FM, cause i steal myself only of pp

in dungeons ofcourse, glad to sb for you, but when comes to short fights, and my contribution, not anymore, lol

 

so, to answer OP, you dont realise it so much, cause you are WL, but other class gets changed skills to super pew pew, not us, f.e. FM without warlock is laugh low dps class, SF as well

shadow build - 50perc more cdmg, nothing else, frost - 50perc more cdmg+more dragoncalls, there its better (but still, killing stuff under 5s makes you contribute least dps of all classes, which you are buffing)

 

i am way more happy for blue buff, than for my soulburn tbh

You sound new. Warlocks benefit alot from their own SB. They can spam their 4 and rmb, their main source of damage. 50% extra crit damage is nothing to scoff at. FMs are not low dps SB or not SB. They just go from great dps to broken dps.

Blue buff is decent, but isn't game breaking at all. It doesn't reset cooldowns and high levels already have high crit rate 60%, but more like 70% due to weapon proc. Neither does it add amplified attack skills with higher multipliers and/or fast casting along with cheap focus. On top of that only lasts 10 seconds.

Results may vary but on an average purple dungeon, let's say Yeti. BB will make a fight go 10% faster, SB can make it go 50% faster.

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Katu Kat   

>BD/Destro Phatom grabs/grabs
>Other classes uses high dmg, high spammable (R/LMB) skills which show only on grabbed targets
>wl soulburns while this is happening
>or wl soulburns after this happens which should reset grab and start the whole process over again
>insane dmg bursts
> ????
> profit

GG dungeon boss.

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babeln   
2 hours ago, DevilTDriver said:

That would be a terrible idea and would just mean WL 2.0 which is totally missing my point.

You sound new. Warlocks benefit alot from their own SB. They can spam their 4 and rmb, their main source of damage. 50% extra crit damage is nothing to scoff at. FMs are not low dps SB or not SB. They just go from great dps to broken dps.

Blue buff is decent, but isn't game breaking at all. It doesn't reset cooldowns and high levels already have high crit rate 60%, but more like 70% due to weapon proc. Neither does it add amplified attack skills with higher multipliers and/or fast casting along with cheap focus. On top of that only lasts 10 seconds.

Results may vary but on an average purple dungeon, let's say Yeti. BB will make a fight go 10% faster, SB can make it go 50% faster.

you sound new, fury badge gives warlock same effect as soulburn on every leech... and without sb wl does half more dps than same geared fm, during soulburn, fm does 2,5x more dps than warlock

and about crit rate, true, but crit damage also aint any miracle - geared people have 260perc crit damage usually, + weapon proc 20... + proc from bt earring 1200+- damage on every crit... on top of that 50 from soulburn is not so good, what is good are awakened skills

for wl, awakened skills are probably least gain from all classes, and also skill cd reset is almost useles

Edited by babeln

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SadFace   
10 minutes ago, babeln said:

for wl, awakened skills are probably least gain from all classes, and also skill cd reset is almost useles

bm has worse awakening skill - it doesn't even change how the skill work for him, just a little dmg boost. For WL it is like a second more powerful leach, which is not so bad. When solo - i like to do leach>sb>leach - very long and consistant dps burst. When in a party i use v>3>v>z>sb and leach after sb ends, that also gives party members time to use their skills before cd reset. I would not say that cd reset on sb is useless.

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babeln   
15 minutes ago, SadFace said:

bm has worse awakening skill - it doesn't even change how the skill work for him, just a little dmg boost. For WL it is like a second more powerful leach, which is not so bad. When solo - i like to do leach>sb>leach - very long and consistant dps burst. When in a party i use v>3>v>z>sb and leach after sb ends, that also gives party members time to use their skills before cd reset. I would not say that cd reset on sb is useless.

i do that too, problem with sb is, that you dont have instacast wingstorm, so basicaly leech is more powerful (2 free wingstorms)

with seraph stage 10 it is no interruption 4t spam leech sb leech

 

but when i talk about short burst, dps contribution and prestige points, i simply refuse to sb for fms, and few others - wl is no way any low dps, but is lowest burst dps class, my dps evens out after 45s, or later

when comes to frost build, its high burst, but delayed about 4s in total, which is even worse waste of money

 

well ssp is just cricket design, people with raven just get rich like hell nowadays, and if i dont sb for them, i get something for myself too, as stupid as it sounds

 

EDIT: oh and why to do it? theres no way better income, tested anything, even superfast foundry runs... 4-5man gwi, steal all pp from bots farmers, get tons of soulstones and every 45min moonstones and evolves

Edited by babeln

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Zedonia   

There is no problem with soulburn as a skill because it's a buff for the whole group. If something like that should be removed we must remove all kind of buffs buff these are things which makes a game more interesting. Beating black tower completely without soulburn and without any raven gear might be pretty hard but for nothing else the skill is needed. Even foundry 4man can be done without any buffs without doing all 4 spin rounds.

 

The only problem with soulburn I see is that it makes WL too good in solo content. Seal it in every solo content and WL will lose some floors in ToI for example. Or imagine every class could use the buff and what would happen to FM in ToI. Same with blue buff. Almost all classes do almost equal damage without any buffs and blue buff and soulburn brake every balance in solo content. Thats the only problem I see.

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Elneth   

Well every class has its purpose and it should be different than the other. That being said SB is a pretty good group buff but as it has been previously said you need to crit to use it at its full potential. People get WLs because they want to get some dungeons done fast. Imo every dungeon can be done without WL but it will just take some more minutes which people don't really want to waste on something that can be done faster. I mean it seems pretty legit , would you rather cook something on an old oven or cook it on a more advanced one? 2/3 of the players are looking for fast runs thats why you see WLs everywhere and about that smart idea about getting a berserk potion no.. Just no.. Reasons why not : I) There are plenty of WLs why would you need a potion instead of grping with one? II) the phrase i started my post with , III)WLs would demand getting the BB too as a potion , IV ) It'd cause a general mess 

 

@Babeln You can't say that SB doesn't give anything on Dark WL with fury badge... Unless your ping is pretty high.. In ssp as you said you'll get that crit dmg buff and awknd volley which will let you spam helix , what i do in ssp since the fight is short im using leech to get the xtra crit dmg for it ending up with 70% crit dmg more in total. I don't rly understand why you think sb is nth important on wl , even on dungeons assuming ure running with seraph 6+ you'll use your sb dps and then leech dps or w.e your rotation is , ending up with more dmg in total and a fast run!

Sth i forgot about sb reseting skills , that part of the buff seems underwhelming coz people use it when tank gets on the boss while they could use it 10s later and get that effect working too

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Zedonia   
8 minutes ago, Elneth said:

Sth i forgot about sb reseting skills , that part of the buff seems underwhelming coz people use it when tank gets on the boss while they could use it 10s later and get that effect working too

People with crit soul and above want to use proc it together with sb. So using it later is useless because these people wont do any skills until sb so the cd reset is meaningless for them anyway. But in all other cases, yes, using it right away is not good.

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babeln   
53 minutes ago, Elneth said:

@Babeln You can't say that SB doesn't give anything on Dark WL with fury badge... Unless your ping is pretty high.. In ssp as you said you'll get that crit dmg buff and awknd volley which will let you spam helix , what i do in ssp since the fight is short im using leech to get the xtra crit dmg for it ending up with 70% crit dmg more in total. I don't rly understand why you think sb is nth important on wl , even on dungeons assuming ure running with seraph 6+ you'll use your sb dps and then leech dps or w.e your rotation is , ending up with more dmg in total and a fast run!

Sth i forgot about sb reseting skills , that part of the buff seems underwhelming coz people use it when tank gets on the boss while they could use it 10s later and get that effect working too

but thats whole problem - 260 base crit damage + 20 weapon proc + ? bt earring (about another 30+-) + leech = 330

add soulburn 50 = not even 20 perc increase (which fits to my real observation)

 

now, i have in party 2 fm with raven (or without w/e) - for them it is 300% dps increase, mob dies in 5 max 10s, i get 1/5 at best 1/3 of their pp

if i dont sb, i get way way way more, see?

 

in dungeons i am happy to do it, i reach their dps (or somewhere close) after 2-3 leech (minute or more) i have seraph 10 so i have 3 leech per sb

 

wl does alot dps itself, but sb gives them least of all classes, which is kind of response to @Zedonia in toi, mobs react to sb in weirdest ways, f.e. i stopped using sb at all while fighting FMs... cause hnnnng

 

to summ it up (talking about shadow wl - more used in most cases atm, although with superlow ping, new badge, and bt soulshield, frost does way more): 

in short fights for wl, sb means only 50 perc crit damage (less than 20perc more dps) - compared to other classes its laughable

in long fights its better - but its very hard to determine, will this boss die in less than 20s or more, unless you run with static

 

most of FMs dont even want to run anything without WL, cause their dps is pretty low, but with WL its highest

and many WLs dont want to sb for FMs in ssp - talking about 820 to 890ap people here

Edited by babeln

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I don't think you guys get it. I thought blade and soul was a game that did not require traditional rpg party roles. Meaning I should be able to go to any dungeon and have any random composition without gimping myself.

Not having a warlock in a party of 6 is a huge gimp. Over the course of a 6 minute fight soul burn can be done 4 times. It lasts 15 seconds so that's a whole minute of burst dps. That and a Warlock is a high dps class in of itself, so it's not even purely a support class.

 

Here's a deal, if you can show me a KR/JP/CN endgame raid where they opted to not have 1 warlock in each party (Perhaps 2 max in the raid or better yet 0), then I'll buy the idea that WLs  are not necessary. Also under the condition the raid isn't overgeared for the content.

Like if I had a full clear BT raid where the AP averaged 750 AP, no one above crit soul. I would not be comfortable not having 4 warlocks. If it was 800 AP, then we can get away with no WL, though that's not to say it isn't a gimp.

Edited by DevilTDriver

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babeln   
6 minutes ago, DevilTDriver said:

I don't think you guys get it. I thought blade and soul was a game that did not require traditional rpg party roles. Meaning I should be able to go to any dungeon and have any random composition without gimping myself.

Not having a warlock in a party of 6 is a huge gimp. Over the course of a 6 minute fight soul burn can be done 4 times. It lasts 15 seconds so that's a whole minute of burst dps. That and a Warlock is a high dps class in of itself, so it's not even purely a support class.

 

Here's a deal, if you can show me a KR/JP/CN endgame raid where they opted to not have 1 warlock in each party (Perhaps 2 max in the raid or better yet 0), then I'll buy the idea that WLs  are not necessary. Also under the condition the raid isn't overgeared for the content.

Like if I had a full clear BT raid where the AP averaged 750 AP, no one above crit soul. I would not be comfortable not having 4 warlocks. If it was 800 AP, then we can get away with no WL, though that's not to say it isn't a gimp.

dont forget about cats or SFs for 3rd boss for res, otw good luck running around

kind of reminds me GW2, also stated no need any party roles, but for raids you need healers and tanks

i dont see anything wrong about it, for me its actually most boring, missing traditional roles, at least theres that sb support (i find myself sometimes healing people with my sanctum - after years playing healer classes, i still care)

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My main is wl and wls in this game are like a healer, I had people complaining that I don't time my sb...

Sb after/before 

Sb in 10sec oh you sb too early 

Sb immediately... late sb

Sb Pls 

Sb that this and omg I get it I will sb pfff

I really rather play healer cause then I get praise for healing good  with wl someone will be displeased.

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Elneth   

Don't you think that it's a lil bit odd? I mean , uugh i don't get it ! It's like asking for people to waste more time on dungeons that they don't have to! Before WLs release everything was okay , after WL got released everything was going a lil bit faster( even tho that 3minSB Cd baah) . It's pretty simple WLs Sb buff helps you get done with dungies fast.

On other regions things are different. We're talking about raids that have 2.5B HP if i remember right ( Yulia V.T ) But still people there ,who run that raid ,are all sitting on end game gear meaning their dmg is huge. SB might increases their dmg drastically but they are able to keep doing  the same dmg or maybe 10-50k less ( worst case scenario ) without sb.

In other words falling from 400k/s to 350k/s won't cause a wipe but ull probably reach closer to the enrage timer.

WL was meant for a glass-canon class and not a support one. Plus the way you speak makes me think that you're refering to holy trinity sys . Imo that thing doesnt exist in BnS , you can complete any dungeon without a warlock -with same gear people ofc - f.e a 700-800ap pt can clean NF without WL its all a matter of whether you want to waste time or not ^

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XO   
43 minutes ago, babeln said:

 

d of reminds me GW2, also stated no need any party roles, but for raids you need healers and tanks

 

Well duh who do you think will tank the boss that does high damage.....? There is always going to be a tank. The biggest difference in this game compared to the "traditional" rpg is that the tanks can do mass amount of damage ontop of pulling threat. Same goes with the "healers" (whose heals have gotten nerfed) in bns that can actually do something.

 

47 minutes ago, DevilTDriver said:

I don't think you guys get it. I thought blade and soul was a game that did not require traditional rpg party roles. Meaning I should be able to go to any dungeon and have any random composition without gimping myself.

Not having a warlock in a party of 6 is a huge gimp. Over the course of a 6 minute fight soul burn can be done 4 times. It lasts 15 seconds so that's a whole minute of burst dps. That and a Warlock is a high dps class in of itself, so it's not even purely a support class.

 

Here's a deal, if you can show me a KR/JP/CN endgame raid where they opted to not have 1 warlock in each party (Perhaps 2 max in the raid or better yet 0), then I'll buy the idea that WLs  are not necessary. Also under the condition the raid isn't overgeared for the content.

Like if I had a full clear BT raid where the AP averaged 750 AP, no one above crit soul. I would not be comfortable not having 4 warlocks. If it was 800 AP, then we can get away with no WL, though that's not to say it isn't a gimp.

It doesn't require traditional party roles because the roles in this game aren't really traditional X: You can do a dungeon without warlock, without a healer, there are tons of cc's and iframes. You CAN play this game that way. The problem that you seem to be having is with the players who sit there requesting warlocks probably because they don't know how to dps without one (blue buff is perfectly fine). If you don't get a solid tank than the boss will jump around after the fm(most likely)/wl and for melees that has to be hella frustrating lol. But more importantly, this is how people have probably always played mmo's. Other games there's always the "tank", the "healer/buffer/whatever", than fill the rest with high dps people. Yet you expect them to just break from the ways they always played? That's reaching.

Edited by XO

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