sephy Kun

Lusung plot hole?

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So if you watch the cut scenes you'll notice that when lusung betrays jinsoyun to get mushin's legacy, she turns him into the raven king that we know today. 

But in the khanda vihar story it was the raven king that first used jinsoyun as a vessel and when she was defeated he used lusung instead.

 

So whats up with that? 

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Did I actually miss something because last time we saw Lusung before Khanda Vihar was in Mushin's Legacy thing, wasn't it? I didn't notice anywhere Jinsoyun turning him into Raven King. O_o Can you link that clip?

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26 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

Did I actually miss something because last time we saw Lusung before Khanda Vihar was in Mushin's Legacy thing, wasn't it? I didn't notice anywhere Jinsoyun turning him into Raven King. O_o Can you link that clip?

 

 

all this time i thought he was blackwyrm or something

Edited by sephy Kun

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33 minutes ago, sephy Kun said:

 

 

all this time i thought he was blackwyrm or something

there was only shown that the raven king appear and not directly that lusung turned into him. So the story about lusung could still be right, only thing is that jinsonjun were able to summon the raven king and that made it looks like that she also can command the raven king.

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Shilen   

It's not really a plothole, just something NCSoft has changed from the source material. In KR the Raven King was Lusung himself, not some lieutenant or whatever. The "taken over by a demon" aspect is never there. It is the same with Jinsoyun having control over or being able to "summon" the Raven King, that's never spoken of on other servers (to the best of my knowledge). 

 

 

When it comes to the Act 2 cutscene though, it's a bit more complicated than that, since Act 1-3 follows the old story (where Jinsoyun wanted to kill the Demon Emperor, not summon him/destroy the world), so Act 4 story-wise is more or less detached from the rest of the game. During the reboot of the story, only Act 4 was actually rewritten, and nothing prior to that (i.e Act 1-3) was changed to supplement the new lore and character motivations, personality changes, and so on. Which means you have tons of plotlines that don’t add up, foreshadowing that goes nowhere, lore in different acts that contradict each other, etc etc. Jinsoyun's character (and therefore just about everything related to her) suffered the most for this, as she went from a very Lelouch Vi Britannia-esque character -- someone who becomes evil in order to defeat evil-- and an antagonist, into a straight-out villain. From someone who tried to kill the Demon Emperor (and in essence save the world), to becoming his servant and wanting to destroy it. This is just the result of that. (Jinsoyun was also never a vessel in the first place, Yunhwa was, which just causes more plotholes. From what I can gather, Lusung wasn't supposed to be a vessel after his resurrection either, which just makes NA/EU all the more confusing) 

 

In Act 2, as far as Jinsoyun's plans went, Lusung essentially doomed the world when he didn't kill Yunhwa, so she punished him for disobeying her. That's really all there is to it. The irony of her punishment though, is that Lusung betrayed her and did what he did for power, so she gave him more power (as she previously promised him) by turning him into a demon. Seeing as he's in the netherworld though, he couldn't handle it, and more or less died. While he's dead, as seen in the cutscene, he's approached by the Demon Emperor who turns him into the Raven King. Since Lusung is already dead, there's not really a problem anymore, so the Demon Emperor ressurects him, and he shows up 3-4 years after he "died" (since you don't age while you're dead, but the living world moves on).

 

tldr; the Raven King/Lusung's transformation has nothing to do with Jinsoyun. Lusung became a demon because of the Demon Emperor.

Edited by Shilen

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1 hour ago, Shilen said:

It's not really a plothole, just something NCSoft has changed from the source material. In KR the Raven King was Lusung himself, not some lieutenant or whatever. The "taken over by a demon" aspect is never there. It is the same with Jinsoyun having control over or being able to "summon" the Raven King, that's never spoken of on other servers (to the best of my knowledge). 

 

 

When it comes to the Act 2 cutscene though, it's a bit more complicated than that, since Act 1-3 follows the old story (where Jinsoyun wanted to kill the Demon Emperor, not summon him/destroy the world), so Act 4 story-wise is more or less detached from the rest of the game. During the reboot of the story, only Act 4 was actually rewritten, and nothing prior to that (i.e Act 1-3) was changed to supplement the new lore and character motivations, personality changes, and so on. Which means you have tons of plotlines that don’t add up, foreshadowing that goes nowhere, lore in different acts that contradict each other, etc etc. Jinsoyun's character (and therefore just about everything related to her) suffered the most for this, as she went from a very Lelouch Vi Britannia-esque character -- someone who becomes evil in order to defeat evil-- and an antagonist, into a straight-out villain. From someone who tried to kill the Demon Emperor (and in essence save the world), to becoming the his servant and wanting to destroy the it. This is just the result of that. (Jinsoyun was also never a vessel in the first place, Yunhwa was, which just causes more plotholes. From what I can gather, Lusung wasn't supposed to be a vessel after his resurrection either, which just makes NA/EU all the more confusing) 

 

In Act 2, as far as Jinsoyun's plans went, Lusung essentially doomed the world when he didn't kill Yunhwa, so she punished him for disobeying her. That's really all there is to it. The irony of her punishment though, is that Lusung betrayed her and did what he did for power, so she did give him more power (as she previously promised him) by turning him into a demon. Seeing as he's in the netherworld though, he couldn't handle it, and more or less died. While he's dead, as seen in the cutscene, he's approached by the Demon Emperor who turns him into the Raven King. Since Lusung is already dead, there's not really a problem anymore, so the Demon Emperor ressurects him, and he shows up 3-4 years after he "died" (since you don't age while you're dead, but the living world moves on).

 

tldr; the Raven King/Lusung's transformation has nothing to do with Jinsoyun. Lusung became a demon because of the Demon Emperor.

uff... if that was really the story i wish these NA/EU guys are been late on the story update to actually traslate it a how it should be in KR but one can only wish really these "translation team" guys

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Bastete   
1 hour ago, Shilen said:

It's not really a plothole

...

Great piece of knowledge, Shilen. thank You very much : )

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Dotimus   

i find no problems in the story as it is...

 

1-3 jinsoyun want to kill the masters and seem to have something to do with the dark lord, transform lusung in the raven (not a king ) for his betrayal

4 - jynsyoun wants to kill the masters ( now we know why, mushin's betrayal by killing jiwan  and the rest of the masters cause they  just where on his side) , tried to use the power of the dark lord to do it

dawn story - dark lord uses lusung and grants him powers to end the world...

 

no problems with the story so far...

 

 just cause you know the kr/jp/tw/whatever  don't try to fuse them in the NA/EU story it wont work.

Edited by Dotimus

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dashrem   
1 hour ago, Shilen said:

It's not really a plothole, just something NCSoft has changed from the source material. In KR the Raven King was Lusung himself, not some lieutenant or whatever. The "taken over by a demon" aspect is never there. It is the same with Jinsoyun having control over or being able to "summon" the Raven King, that's never spoken of on other servers (to the best of my knowledge). 

 

 

When it comes to the Act 2 cutscene though, it's a bit more complicated than that, since Act 1-3 follows the old story (where Jinsoyun wanted to kill the Demon Emperor, not summon him/destroy the world), so Act 4 story-wise is more or less detached from the rest of the game. During the reboot of the story, only Act 4 was actually rewritten, and nothing prior to that (i.e Act 1-3) was changed to supplement the new lore and character motivations, personality changes, and so on. Which means you have tons of plotlines that don’t add up, foreshadowing that goes nowhere, lore in different acts that contradict each other, etc etc. Jinsoyun's character (and therefore just about everything related to her) suffered the most for this, as she went from a very Lelouch Vi Britannia-esque character -- someone who becomes evil in order to defeat evil-- and an antagonist, into a straight-out villain. From someone who tried to kill the Demon Emperor (and in essence save the world), to becoming the his servant and wanting to destroy the it. This is just the result of that. (Jinsoyun was also never a vessel in the first place, Yunhwa was, which just causes more plotholes. From what I can gather, Lusung wasn't supposed to be a vessel after his resurrection either, which just makes NA/EU all the more confusing) 

 

In Act 2, as far as Jinsoyun's plans went, Lusung essentially doomed the world when he didn't kill Yunhwa, so she punished him for disobeying her. That's really all there is to it. The irony of her punishment though, is that Lusung betrayed her and did what he did for power, so she did give him more power (as she previously promised him) by turning him into a demon. Seeing as he's in the netherworld though, he couldn't handle it, and more or less died. While he's dead, as seen in the cutscene, he's approached by the Demon Emperor who turns him into the Raven King. Since Lusung is already dead, there's not really a problem anymore, so the Demon Emperor ressurects him, and he shows up 3-4 years after he "died" (since you don't age while you're dead, but the living world moves on).

 

tldr; the Raven King/Lusung's transformation has nothing to do with Jinsoyun. Lusung became a demon because of the Demon Emperor.

This is why when people ask me if they should play BnS I tell them, "Yes, but don't bother reading anything. By the time you get to the end of the story it will be so convoluted it won't even matter anymore, and you would have wasted many hours of your life."

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XO   
1 hour ago, dashrem said:

This is why when people ask me if they should play BnS I tell them, "Yes, but don't bother reading anything. By the time you get to the end of the story it will be so convoluted it won't even matter anymore, and you would have wasted many hours of your life."

Funny because I tell people the opposite x: 

 

12 hours ago, sephy Kun said:

So if you watch the cut scenes you'll notice that when lusung betrays jinsoyun to get mushin's legacy, she turns him into the raven king that we know today. 

But in the khanda vihar story it was the raven king that first used jinsoyun as a vessel and when she was defeated he used lusung instead.

 

So whats up with that? 

 

Who turned Lusung was the Dark Lord not the Raven King. Lusung IS the Raven King. When he failed with Yunwha, Jinsoyun entered and there's a couple clues there, for one she sent black feathers up into the air and exploded them, and two a raven mutated from his arm in some form of demonic punishment which is not so far from when she fails after she morphed into the dark angel thing and had her arm start to mutate. Also! Idk if people forgot but Lusung had a pet raven.

 

Now as to why he showed up now? During the time Yunwha was saved and after Jinsoyun was saved, he gained his power and than learned to control it but he had to do that somehow so, enter the new area, Khanda Vihar....where by the time we arrived they already know the Raven king. So basically while we were off saving the world, thinking the dark portal was the only bad thing happening and this was the only thing the Dark Lord was focusing on, Lusung thrived.

Edited by XO

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Yolie   

Hmm...  Well, first off, if you really want to enjoy our story, the story here in AN/EU, do yourself a favor and stop digging into the Kor story.  The comparisons aren't good because you will be left questioning story line decisions and blur the two stories into one causing nothing but confusion.  Besides,s the NA story in and of itself is very good.

 

As for the plot hole?  I never thought there was one.  Jinsoyun gave him power turning him into a demon but banned him to the netherworld where he couldn't use it.  Ironic justice. lol.  The Dark Lord then uses Lu to further his ow interest by returning him as the Raven King.  There is no inconsistency here, btw.  The real Lu is basically trapped in this Raven thing he has become.  It will be interesting to see if, as his sister insists, he can be saved or should be saved.  

 

It's a good question actually in a broader sense.  Is there redemption for Lu after all he has done?  Soyun was saved and I believe Lu will be too, but is there really redemption for them despite the evil they have done?  If so, why?  Do they not need to pay for their transgressions?  Soyun seems to be paying in a way now.

 

 

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Cheung   

People talk about NA/EU story line as if it's normal to be so changed if compared to KR/TW/JP.

 

The game is the same, the story line was supposed to be untouched.

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Looking at this once again it appears that Jinsoyun summon's the Raven king to take Lusung away to the dark rhealm. Something else I would like to know is when do we get to save Jinsoyun??

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Shilen   
6 hours ago, Yolie said:

Hmm...  Well, first off, if you really want to enjoy our story, the story here in AN/EU, do yourself a favor and stop digging into the Kor story.  The comparisons aren't good because you will be left questioning story line decisions and blur the two stories into one causing nothing but confusion.  Besides,s the NA story in and of itself is very good.

 

5 hours ago, Cheung said:

People talk about NA/EU story line as if it's normal to be so changed if compared to KR/TW/JP.

The game is the same, the story line was supposed to be untouched.

In most cases I'd agree, but when there are blatant plotholes, or when something doesn't make sense in NA/EU, but it does in KR, then it can't really be helped to "compare" them to other versions. The best example of this would be Brightstone.

 

It is exactly because we don't have an "untouched" storyline that these problems and plotholes exists in the first place. Add the reboot on top of it; if you don't know that Act 1-3 and Act 4 are different games story- and character wise, when you deconstruct the plot you'll have a hard time making sense of it all, simply because it don't add up. With a game like this, that's been censored and rewritten several times by now, you more or less need outside context in order to make sense of the story as a whole.

Edited by Shilen

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Viblo   

Considering that the B&S team appears to put an effort into making it a good story with tons of amazing cutscenes and quite some voice acting, it's sad that it's a little ruined by all the awful additional quests and the unexplained rules of the world. We never really understand anything, but instead we just go by what other NPCs tells us.

I feel like it would be better if Master Hong would have explained some more stuff right in the beginning on Heaven's Reach, like how Divine Chi, regular Chi, Demonic Pacts, and Dark Chi actually works. I could not at all understand how Jiwan was communicating with us in act four, and the only reason I know that she was a Divine Chi user was because a representative answered my question on the forum. 

Hopefully we can see some improvements regarding the story for their next project!

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umcal   
1 hour ago, Viblo said:

Considering that the B&S team appears to put an effort into making it a good story with tons of amazing cutscenes and quite some voice acting, it's sad that it's a little ruined by all the awful additional quests and the unexplained rules of the world. We never really understand anything, but instead we just go by what other NPCs tells us.

I feel like it would be better if Master Hong would have explained some more stuff right in the beginning on Heaven's Reach, like how Divine Chi, regular Chi, Demonic Pacts, and Dark Chi actually works. I could not at all understand how Jiwan was communicating with us in act four, and the only reason I know that she was a Divine Chi user was because a representative answered my question on the forum. 

Hopefully we can see some improvements regarding the story for their next project!

i didnt know and always wonder how could Jiwan save me from death in the opening act, now i kinda understand (remember when lusung pets his raven and send a letter, the girl see someone but cant tell what it is, we later find out its jiwan)

but explaining these things right off the bat in the begining would be too much for a new player, this information should be given when we truly know the story of jinsoyun and her motives to betray the master

 

also i wish the story of mushin was expanded, not just mushin tower, i understand why its there, but there should be a story about defeating mushin and not just a couple of shadows

 

I really liked the story tho, not into much anime stuff but somehow i think that the motives of the main character were presented well (like how he goes a bit insane when he visits the cinderlands and jinsoyun is telling him to kill, then master hong shows up and the doctor saves him)

 

(sorry for the bad english)

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