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What is game guard for?

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dashrem   
12 minutes ago, Raiya said:

Now your trolling! C_C

No, sorry. Let me clarify. I have 2 machines, one is a GT 850/i5, the other is a GTX 960/i7. The game gives the exact same default settings for both. However, the 850 can't handle it well (25-30fps). I imagine people who don't bother to checks graphic settings are hurting.

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I love how the 10 people having issues with it are the ones crying but the thousands that are not are playing happy 

It Works on my system just fine played many games with gg and never once had a issue with it 

Kinda funny noone ever thinks it can be something conflicting with gg and they go right to calling it the problem 

Bet 10 to 1 odds the ones that are crying are the ones that can't macro anymore and they mad cause now they get wrecked  lol 

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Raiya   
7 minutes ago, dashrem said:

No, sorry. Let me clarify. I have 2 machines, one is a GT 850/i5, the other is a GTX 960/i7. The game gives the exact same default settings for both. However, the 850 can't handle it well (25-30fps). I imagine people who don't bother to checks graphic settings are hurting.

Except your forgetting theres people reporting problems with the game ONLY when GG is running. The times is hasnt they've had no issues only when GG was on. Remember the problems arent necessarily how much processing power GG is using but WHAT GG IS HOOKING INTO. It can disrupt legitimate programs on certain configurations depending on how agressive NC sets it and the more agressive its set the more issues it causes.

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dashrem   
Just now, Raiya said:

Except your forgetting theres people reporting problems with the game ONLY when GG is running. The times is hasnt they've had no issues only when GG was on. Remember the problems arent necessarily how much processing power GG is using but WHAT GG IS HOOKING INTO. It can disrupt legitimate programs on certain configurations depending on how agressive NC sets it and the more agressive its set the more issues it causes.

It could be configuration specific problem. I've never had any problems on either PC. People should be sending specs and DxDiag information to support. Raising hell on unmoderated forums isn't going to fix anything.

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3 minutes ago, dashrem said:

It could be configuration specific problem. I've never had any problems on either PC. People should be sending specs and DxDiag information to support. Raising hell on unmoderated forums isn't going to fix anything.

Its a discussion, and just collecting other people opinion about it, whos really crying are the people which still defend gameguard and blame it on the peoples pc's and their need to use macros. Hell man, some people are just not meant to write comments.

Edited by FlockUndead

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dashrem   
2 minutes ago, FlockUndead said:

Its a discussion, and just collecting other people opinion about it, whos really crying are the people which still defend gameguard and blame it on the peoples pc's. Hell man, some people are just not meant to write comments.

I guess I am supposed to ignore that blaring hypocrisy of that reply?

 

I'm just trying to stop everyone from scaring new players away. GG is harmless until it isn't. If you got hurt by it, I feel for you, but this really isn't the place for it. General Discussion is rarely, if at all, checked by the devs. This should be in support. I wouldn't have even seen it if it wasn't here.

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dashrem   
Just now, FlockUndead said:

Its a discussion below support level, thats why there is the "player help player" section. 

 

Just stop, dont lie to new players, because THIS Problem is not funny. If u get people in this game, they'll most likely will also be affected. Just because a small amount of people dont have this problme, doesnt mean that the other 80% of the Community are not important anymore, so this is definately a Topic that HAS to be discussed, if u want it or not.

Just accept it, that people dont want to sit back and watch their PC to break into pieces because of a unnessecary Anti hack software.

Fact: The people with this problem are the MINORITY. There would be more than you and that other guy replying if more people were experiencing problems. You need accept that most people just want to play the game and don't care about a hiccup or two. Stop trying to turn a trickle into a flood.

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18 minutes ago, ColorfulDispensary said:

I love how the 10 people having issues with it are the ones crying but the thousands that are not are playing happy 

It Works on my system just fine played many games with gg and never once had a issue with it 

Kinda funny noone ever thinks it can be something conflicting with gg and they go right to calling it the problem 

Bet 10 to 1 odds the ones that are crying are the ones that can't macro anymore and they mad cause now they get wrecked  lol 

Maybe you've been living under a rock and missed all the issues that a lot more than 10 people were having because of gameguard during the last week, but there's some things I think need to be clarified to people who think like you.

 

1: Gameguard doesn't stop macros. There's quite a few different brands of mouse/keyboard software that can still macro just fine even with the "unfixed" gameguard (lol) we got with the raven update. The most commonly used brand being Razer.

2: Gameguard doesn't stop bots, hacks, not a single thing, because anyone who is trying to "hack" the game in some way and does get blocked by it, can (and will) google a bypass afterwards and have it bypassed within minutes.

 

If you consider both of those points, it doesn't take a genius to see that the only thing gameguard actually IS stopping, is legitimate players who happen to have computer configurations that gameguard doesn't agree with. Meanwhile it's also affecting the performance for everyone in game (unless you bypass it). And if you're real unlucky it can corrupt your drivers or even operating system. For something that accomplishes literally nothing, it doesn't make any sense at all to put your customers computers at even the tiniest chance of risk.

 

And like Raiya said, it's probably costing them a lot.

A bunch of people have quit this game because they can't even log in because of gameguard errors.

Other's have quit just because of being fed up with the issues it causes them.

Also there's people who will simply refuse to even try the game simply because it has gameguard.

I came to BnS from another game during the beta's and tried to bring some friends with me, and two of those friends refused to play just because they "wouldn't touch a game that has gameguard".

Gameguard is doing nothing for NCSoft but losing them potential customers, and doing nothing for the players but affecting their game performance.

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Its a discussion below support level, thats why there is the "player help player" section. 

 

22 minutes ago, dashrem said:

I'm just trying to stop everyone from scaring new players away.

Just stop, dont lie to new players, because THIS Problem is not funny. If u get people in this game, they'll most likely also be affected. Just because a small amount of people dont have this problme, doesnt mean that the other 80% of the Community are not important anymore, so this is definitely a Topic that HAS to be discussed, if u want it or not.

Just accept it, that people dont want to sit back and watch their PC to break into pieces because of a unnessecary Anti hack software.

Edited by FlockUndead

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dashrem   

T

9 minutes ago, Kami Sama said:

Maybe you've been living under a rock and missed all the issues that a lot more than 10 people were having because of gameguard during the last week, but there's some things I think need to be clarified to people who think like you.

 

1: Gameguard doesn't stop macros. There's quite a few different brands of mouse/keyboard software that can still macro just fine even with the "unfixed" gameguard (lol) we got with the raven update. The most commonly used brand being Razer.

2: Gameguard doesn't stop bots, hacks, not a single thing, because anyone who is trying to "hack" the game in some way and does get blocked by it, can (and will) google a bypass afterwards and have it bypassed within minutes.

 

If you consider both of those points, it doesn't take a genius to see that the only thing gameguard actually IS stopping, is legitimate players who happen to have computer configurations that gameguard doesn't agree with. Meanwhile it's also affecting the performance for everyone in game (unless you bypass it). And if you're real unlucky it can corrupt your drivers or even operating system. For something that accomplishes literally nothing, it doesn't make any sense at all to put your customers computers at even the tiniest chance of risk.

 

And like Raiya said, it's probably costing them a lot.

A bunch of people have quit this game because they can't even log in because of gameguard errors.

Other's have quit just because of being fed up with the issues it causes them.

Also there's people who will simply refuse to even try the game simply because it has gameguard.

I came to BnS from another game during the beta's and tried to bring some friends with me, and two of those friends refused to play just because they "wouldn't touch a game that has gameguard".

Gameguard is doing nothing for NCSoft but losing them potential customers, and doing nothing for the players but affecting their game performance.

It can literally do none of the things you said it can. If it started messing with anything in sys32, Windows would flag it as malware and it would be gone (unless you're still running pre-windows 10, which is still free, btw). Now that I think of it, you guys keep calling it a rootkit, but Game Guard doesn't even open until you open the game. It doesn't start with the system or hook into any low-level functions like an actual rootkit does.  At best it hooks into the task manager and input feed and memory via the BnS client when you launch the game. Once you close BnS, Game Guard shuts down. People claim it behaves like a rootkit and even the great and powerful Oz - I mean, Wikipedia! - says it's a rootkit, so it must be true right? I don't think so.

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Raiya   
22 minutes ago, dashrem said:

T

It can literally do none of the things you said it can. If it started messing with anything in sys32, Windows would flag it as malware and it would be gone (unless you're still running pre-windows 10, which is still free, btw). Now that I think of it, you guys keep calling it a rootkit, but Game Guard doesn't even open until you open the game. It doesn't start with the system or hook into any low-level functions like an actual rootkit does.  At best it hooks into the task manager and input feed and memory via the BnS client when you launch the game. Once you close BnS, Game Guard shuts down. People claim it behaves like a rootkit and even the great and powerful Oz - I mean, Wikipedia! - says it's a rootkit, so it must be true right? I don't think so.

Honestly you dont even know what a rootkit is do you? The way the 64bit client has been running is EXACTLY why its called a rootkit: It assumes root level access and HIDES itself and the game application FROM the TASK MANAGER. It affects system stability because its HIDING itself from windows itself hence the name rootkit. From there it hooks into other processes and on certain setups and configurations it will interfere with LEGITIMATE programs: One person for example reported being unable to use chrome, CHROME the google browser until they restarted their system, why? Because GG has root access to the OS and is blocking things it has no buisness blocking. Whats more it DOESNT always close because if the game crashes it can sometimes refuse to terminate the application and because its HIDDEN from task manager you cant shut it down its messing with stuff it shouldnt be and affecting OS stability until someone does a restart.

 

THIS is the very reason why GG is a waste of time. It shouldnt be affecting ANYTHING beyond the game which is has no business interfering with. In the past certain GG setups would actually delete certain files from windows which actually BROKE the operating system entirely (ie driver or system startup files). Dont try to argue against this I've actually seen first hand myself how it affects my own computer in the past. The only reason there's been so little complaints about GG is because for the past year NC have been using a non aggressive version of it. It still affected people though but with the 64bit client NC has been pushing this repeately and for the last week people have been having SERIOUS issues with this. Some have resorted to replacing the 64bit client with an earlier nonGG version, others have simply crippled it entirely from starting at all and played the game without it. As it stands theres been more complaints in the last week about GG than there has been in the last YEAR.

 

What were all tired of at this point is NC pushing this stupid pointless program that doesnt work and only affects legitimate players and then outright ignoring the playerbase because they dont seem to be able to defend its use or just dont want to try because they know their reasoning would be torn apart. Its like they wanna live in a damn echo chamber about it and ignore ANY criticism of their approach and how it fails. It doesnt do its job thus its reason for being there is null and void.

Edited by Raiya

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8 minutes ago, dashrem said:

T

It can literally do none of the things you said it can. If it started messing with anything in sys32, Windows would flag it as malware and it would be gone (unless you're still running pre-windows 10, which is still free, btw). Now that I think of it, you guys keep calling it a rootkit, but Game Guard doesn't even open until you open the game. It doesn't start with the system or hook into any low-level functions like an actual rootkit does.  At best it hooks into the task manager and input feed and memory via the BnS client when you launch the game. Once you close BnS, Game Guard shuts down. People claim it behaves like a rootkit and even the great and powerful Oz - I mean, Wikipedia! - says it's a rootkit, so it must be true right? I don't think so.

Please, I never once used the word "rootkit" any time that i've ever talked about gameguard.

And no, windows wouldn't flag it as malware just because it can sometimes corrupt the processes which it hooks into.

And yes, there is known instances of gameguard corrupting drivers, OS, as well as it seeming to have a special dislike against software that monitors/regulates fan temps and speeds (the most common issue I've seen involving gameguard doing something that can cause permanent damage). Not just rumors.

 

Even in the best case scenario that it works 100% fine and dandy with someones computer rig, it doesn't change the fact that it is accomplishing nothing while at the same time hindering game performance for legitimate players. At the very least it causes input lag for everyone.

And if you don't think it causes input lag, try maining a KFM for awhile and tell me you see no difference when they have gameguard on compared to when they have it disabled. It's like ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing night and day with how smooth the game feels.

 

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dashrem   

I've been googling and binging everything someone has claimed from it preventing program A or B from starting to corrupting drivers to how it behaves, and not one result that isn't from this forum. Everything returns results on how to fix Game Guard if it breaks or goes missing or something. I didn't want to be this guy, but you are all now required to provide citations for what you're claiming here.

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6 minutes ago, Kami Sama said:

Even in the best case scenario that it works 100% fine and dandy with someones computer rig, it doesn't change the fact that it is accomplishing nothing while at the same time hindering game performance for legitimate players. At the very least it causes input lag for everyone.

And if you don't think it causes input lag, try maining a KFM for awhile and tell me you see no difference when they have gameguard on compared to when they have it disabled. It's like ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing night and day with how smooth the game feels.

 

KFM footage from KR version without GG is simply amazing. It rows combos like someone is playing guitar hero or smth. With GG is an entirely different story. Actually this is true for most classes that can execute fast paced combos. BM also suffers from this input lag with GG. I played B&S one time down in the city where the internet is super fast. Talking something like 12ms from the Mediterranean EU coast to points in England and Germany. Playing on that net with low lag, is comparable to playing with 90-100ms lag from Europe on KR servers. It's kinda sad to be honest. 

 

@dashrem As a matter of fact, back when they did the switch to 64 bit, I was unable to start chrome browser at all when the game is running, unless I start is as administrator (which I absolutely don't want to do for obvious reasons). Go figure...

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Raiya   
11 minutes ago, dashrem said:

I've been googling and binging everything someone has claimed from it preventing program A or B from starting to corrupting drivers to how it behaves, and not one result that isn't from this forum. Everything returns results on how to fix Game Guard if it breaks or goes missing or something. I didn't want to be this guy, but you are all now required to provide citations for what you're claiming here.

Go look through blade and soul reddit threads for the last week and you'll see plenty of complaints, go through the threads in these forums for the last week and actually LOOK in them and youll see the complaints.

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dashrem   
Just now, Raiya said:

Go look through blade and soul reddit threads for the last week and you'll see plenty of complaints, go through the threads in these forums for the last week and actually LOOK in them and youll see the complaints.

Okay, I'll do some leg work.

 

Nothing substantial until April 2016 in Player to Player

1 thing yesterday in Bug Reports and nothing until April again.

 

Not terribly substantial.

 

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Inzho   

I'll add my personal experience here:

No GG = nice load times and better game response

GG = longer load times and not so nice game response

 

I believe my real issue is that I need more RAM and that I am working on BUT I notice a definite difference between the two. I was playing quite a while so there was a time before GG and my experience was cool. Then GG came and ever since, though I still enjoy the game, it simply does not perform as nicely.

Edited by Inzho

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Kaigame   
1 hour ago, ColorfulDispensary said:

I love how the 10 people having issues with it are the ones crying but the thousands that are not are playing happy 

It Works on my system just fine played many games with gg and never once had a issue with it 

Kinda funny noone ever thinks it can be something conflicting with gg and they go right to calling it the problem 

Bet 10 to 1 odds the ones that are crying are the ones that can't macro anymore and they mad cause now they get wrecked  lol 

If you are going to be that unhelpful, why bother posting? I'm running on two pc's, both played the game perfectly before the last patch. One couldn't run the client at all and the other wouldn't play for more than 10 mins without randomly crashing. The last gameguard patch(funnily enough) helped a lot, although one of the machines still crashes out randomly.

 

People come to the forums because they are hoping for some possible 'helpful' suggestions, otherwise what in the blue hell is this forum for? I've logged a ticket with support for my issues, and they have been mostly giving me generic responses, and not addressing the fact that there are instances(on multiple forums) where people have had trouble only since the last patch, granted not everyone, but enough to take a look at the code and issues, asking me to run a sfc /scannow isn't going to fix this code.

 

The last person i spoke to helped me get the 64bit client working by way of a new local windows account(which then somehow resolved the main account issue).

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dashrem   
10 minutes ago, MassiveEgo said:

KFM footage from KR version without GG is simply amazing. It rows combos like someone is playing guitar hero or smth. With GG is an entirely different story. Actually this is true for most classes that can execute fast paced combos. BM also suffers from this input lag with GG. I played B&S one time down in the city where the internet is super fast. Talking something like 12ms from the Mediterranean EU coast to points in England and Germany. Playing on that net with low lag, is comparable to playing with 90-100ms lag from Europe on KR servers. It's kinda sad to be honest. 

 

@dashrem As a matter of fact, back when they did the switch to 64 bit, I was unable to start chrome browser at all when the game is running, unless I start is as administrator (which I absolutely don't want to do for obvious reasons). Go figure...

Thanks for that. When the game comes back online, I'm gonna do a little experiment with Game Guard.

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Cheung   
28 minutes ago, MassiveEgo said:

KFM footage from KR version without GG is simply amazing. It rows combos like someone is playing guitar hero or smth. With GG is an entirely different story. Actually this is true for most classes that can execute fast paced combos. BM also suffers from this input lag with GG. I played B&S one time down in the city where the internet is super fast. Talking something like 12ms from the Mediterranean EU coast to points in England and Germany. Playing on that net with low lag, is comparable to playing with 90-100ms lag from Europe on KR servers. It's kinda sad to be honest. 

 

@dashrem As a matter of fact, back when they did the switch to 64 bit, I was unable to start chrome browser at all when the game is running, unless I start is as administrator (which I absolutely don't want to do for obvious reasons). Go figure...

I had same problem with Chrome back there, besides that i had great performance with 64bits when they "leaked" it during 1st anniversary update.

It had some textures error, but the performance itself was amazing. When they official released it with "GG" i experienced some drops on perfomance just like 32bits one.

I even made a fresh install of windows and redownloaded the whole game again to see, last days when they disabled GG, game was great, then they activated it again, now it's taking around 4 mins to get to character lobby screen, and ingame, load screen when teleport or enter portal it takes 3x more time to load it if compared back there.

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@CheungI had the exact same experience. No GG and things were going buttery smooth. Talking about solid 15-19 fps increase in prime time in windrest's mushin tower base floor. That's MASSIVE increase over the 29-35 fps I normally get there. As long as it has such massive impact (the fps and lag), I wouldn't really want to have it working.

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Hrssss   

So thats why my fps suddenly dropped. Before patch was playing at stable 60fps now i am happy if i get 40fps not to mention all the fps drops when fighting.

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dashrem   

Looks like you all got your wish for now. Game Guard seems to be patched out. It didn't start up with 32 bit or 64 bit.

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2 hours ago, ColorfulDispensary said:

I love how the 10 people having issues with it are the ones crying but the thousands that are not are playing happy 

It Works on my system just fine played many games with gg and never once had a issue with it 

Kinda funny noone ever thinks it can be something conflicting with gg and they go right to calling it the problem 

Bet 10 to 1 odds the ones that are crying are the ones that can't macro anymore and they mad cause now they get wrecked  lol 

Well for the THIRD time since BnS NA was released, GG has been patched out of our client. Still think only 10 people crying was enough to convince NC to get rid of it?

 

What I find mind boggling is how anyone can defend that pos. Unless...they have a personal stake in GG somehow...

 

Good riddance GG, lets see how long till you pop up again, secretly.

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Raiya   

GG initially reinstalled itself on launching the game after i cleaned it out for me but when I shut it down and restarted it the second time it didn't to which I purged it with a vengence from my system files yet again....... Honestly I wish they would just admit at this stage it's not working for anyone and is causing more trouble and just remove it for good it's not like the cheaters already have a way around it at this stage.  Rootkit = Bad NC its just not worth antagonising a chunk of the playerbase over. I can only imagine the abuse the poor support guys are getting over this its prolly the reason why they pulled it for the THIRD time in a week.

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