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Any Separh-using Summoner here?


Alysha Hawkeye

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My ping is kinda high (200+), so the idea of having Separh to reduce cooldown of Flying Nettle, which deals damage regardless of ping, sounds attractive.

 

For my record, my ping does not allow me to maximize DPS with Baleful. Compared to low ping, my RMB fire rate is like 1.5 times slower. So, Baleful 7 deals the similar DPS as Galaxy 5 in long run, while Galaxy 5 offers better survivability and allows me to face tank attack.

 

This is my DPS against Acrimor with Galaxy 5. No event buff. Since Galaxy 5 increase DPS of all skills, so just think it is as a Separh without cool reduction

 

[MODERATOR EDIT: Picture deleted]

 

While Baleful reset is its good point, I think it is not that good. For example, in one minute, I can pull a reset with Galaxy/Baleful and get like 3-4 Flying Nettle. Meanwhile, Separh 7 can give me 6 Nettle per minute. Not mentioning that Separh does  not need to build anything, while Baleful/Galaxy stacking rate is slower if you have downtime DPS due to mechanic.

 

Corporating Separth 7 with bee build, I will have less focus problem. Coupling with MSP 8-set, I think the overall damage my increase

 

TL:NR I think of switching to Separh 7. Though it might cost me 700g (ouch), but I think it would be more benefit in long-run.

 

Your thought?

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in a lot of 5 min tests with baleful i got 19 nettle fields. That means i got just slithly more then 2 nettles cause of reset. 

This all with 36 scaling (8 msp) would mean a 2.235 base ap scaling / sec.

 

With Seraph stage 7 (43% cdr) youre able to gain 29 nettle (cause it just have a 10.x sec cd). This with a 36 scaling (earth) would mean a 3.509 base ap scalling / sec.

 

With wind Seraph Stage 7 would do 1.949 base ap scaling / sec.

 

To give you a more detailed dps increase look.

 

810 ap

6360 crit rate

2702 crit dmg

280 ele dmg

 

with that stats seraph stage 7 should give me a dps increase of around 1k (earth). 

 

 

Edit: but dont think i just got 2 resets, but most of the time resets are at around 9-2 sec cd of nettles. :/

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2 hours ago, RainbowDashie said:

in a lot of 5 min tests with baleful i got 19 nettle fields. That means i got just slithly more then 2 nettles cause of reset. 

This all with 36 scaling (8 msp) would mean a 2.235 base ap scaling / sec.

 

With Seraph stage 7 (43% cdr) youre able to gain 29 nettle (cause it just have a 10.x sec cd). This with a 36 scaling (earth) would mean a 3.509 base ap scalling / sec.

 

With wind Seraph Stage 7 would do 1.949 base ap scaling / sec.

 

To give you a more detailed dps increase look.

 

810 ap

6360 crit rate

2702 crit dmg

280 ele dmg

 

with that stats seraph stage 7 should give me a dps increase of around 1k (earth). 

 

 

Edit: but dont think i just got 2 resets, but most of the time resets are at around 9-2 sec cd of nettles. :/

What do you think when combining Separh 7-10 with the blue badge that reset Nettle with Doom'n'Gloom?

 

You would use Nettle + 10s later Nettle + Doom + Nettle + 10s later Nettle.

 

So you will always have two Nettle between every Doom'n'Gloom.

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37 minutes ago, Alysha Hawkeye said:

What do you think when combining Separh 7-10 with the blue badge that reset Nettle with Doom'n'Gloom?

 

You would use Nettle + 10s later Nettle + Doom + Nettle + 10s later Nettle.

 

So you will always have two Nettle between every Doom'n'Gloom.

you will have 16 doom'n'bloom in 5 min. With that plan for sure more "burst" dmg and you will gain 33 neetles. And that will be around 500-1k dps increase. And that would also be the best plan to do it. 

 

Edit: have also done a 100 sec fight, cause it wasnt so clear for me.

So you have 6 solo nettles and 5 double nettles, that makes 16 nettles overall in 100 sec, also 5 doom. So you could be able to have 45 nettles over 5 min. 

For information for other readers, you could also use doom'n'bloom on cd instead waiting 2 sec for nettle cd, but you will lose some burst dmg, but you will have nettle uptime 24/7. So for focus problems they shouldnt there then, you will just lack in some burst dmg. Maybe it depends on overall dps and boss wich rotation is better.

 

ok i just have done a theoretic fight for 100 sec, just based on nettle + doom cd. 

within 100 sec you can do 13 nettles (i started with nettle+doom+nettle) and 6 times doom. So with that rotation you could be able to get 39 nettles in 5 min. Maybe that rotation would be better, but this has to be tested first.

 

to explain my rotation: nettle+doom+nettle -> 10 sec -> nettle -> 8 sec -> doom + nettle -> 10 sec -> nettle -> 8 sec -> doom + nettle -> and so on.

 

Edit: for Seraph Stage 10 my rotation should realy out dps yours cause the cd reduction is even higher. I dont have the numbers right now so i cant give you an example how much difference in dps that would be.

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1 hour ago, RainbowDashie said:

you will have 16 doom'n'bloom in 5 min. With that plan for sure more "burst" dmg and you will gain 33 neetles. And that will be around 500-1k dps increase. And that would also be the best plan to do it. 

 

Edit: have also done a 100 sec fight, cause it wasnt so clear for me.

So you have 6 solo nettles and 5 double nettles, that makes 16 nettles overall in 100 sec, also 5 doom. So you could be able to have 45 nettles over 5 min. 

For information for other readers, you could also use doom'n'bloom on cd instead waiting 2 sec for nettle cd, but you will lose some burst dmg, but you will have nettle uptime 24/7. So for focus problems they shouldnt there then, you will just lack in some burst dmg. Maybe it depends on overall dps and boss wich rotation is better.

 

ok i just have done a theoretic fight for 100 sec, just based on nettle + doom cd. 

within 100 sec you can do 13 nettles (i started with nettle+doom+nettle) and 6 times doom. So with that rotation you could be able to get 39 nettles in 5 min. Maybe that rotation would be better, but this has to be tested first.

 

to explain my rotation: nettle+doom+nettle -> 10 sec -> nettle -> 8 sec -> doom + nettle -> 10 sec -> nettle -> 8 sec -> doom + nettle -> and so on.

 

Edit: for Seraph Stage 10 my rotation should realy out dps yours cause the cd reduction is even higher. I dont have the numbers right now so i cant give you an example how much difference in dps that would be.

Black Tower 3-set would reduce cooldown of Doom'n'Gloom by 30%, hence result in more Nettle reset. I think for five minutes, you would throw about 23 Doom, hence 23 Nettle reset. However, the loss of 8-set MSP that + 100% Flying Nettle damage sound likes pretty much a heavy hit for both Earth and Wind build. 

 

I doubt you will have focus problem with this setup, so I wonder if freely spam Rumblebee Stage 3 would make up the damage loss.

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5 hours ago, Alysha Hawkeye said:

Black Tower 3-set would reduce cooldown of Doom'n'Gloom by 30%, hence result in more Nettle reset. I think for five minutes, you would throw about 23 Doom, hence 23 Nettle reset. However, the loss of 8-set MSP that + 100% Flying Nettle damage sound likes pretty much a heavy hit for both Earth and Wind build. 

 

I doubt you will have focus problem with this setup, so I wonder if freely spam Rumblebee Stage 3 would make up the damage loss.

with your rotation nothing would change.

with my rotation on it it would be in a 94 sec fight it would be 8 doom + 17 nettles. this means in a around 5 min fight 23 doom + 54 nettle. 

without 8 msp your scaling would go from (doom+nettle) 5.46 down to 3.507. So this isnt the best option for earth (that was obvoius) but with this focus gain you should be able to cast bees without downtime.

For me it would be 2 / sec (100 ms delay) so we should end at around 500-550 normal bees and around 100 petal bees. This would mean we would have a 18.0515 scaling with bee.

For me earth, with blue a badge, would get a 20.425 scaling. To reach this with bee you need 550 normal and 150 petal or 650 normal and 100 petal bees.

 

So yeah it could be able to reach earth, but you need a delay <100 ms to reach earth dmg. Or to say it in other words you need around 2.5 - 3 bees / sec.

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On 2/13/2017 at 9:14 PM, RainbowDashie said:

with your rotation nothing would change.

with my rotation on it it would be in a 94 sec fight it would be 8 doom + 17 nettles. this means in a around 5 min fight 23 doom + 54 nettle. 

without 8 msp your scaling would go from (doom+nettle) 5.46 down to 3.507. So this isnt the best option for earth (that was obvoius) but with this focus gain you should be able to cast bees without downtime.

For me it would be 2 / sec (100 ms delay) so we should end at around 500-550 normal bees and around 100 petal bees. This would mean we would have a 18.0515 scaling with bee.

For me earth, with blue a badge, would get a 20.425 scaling. To reach this with bee you need 550 normal and 150 petal or 650 normal and 100 petal bees.

 

So yeah it could be able to reach earth, but you need a delay <100 ms to reach earth dmg. Or to say it in other words you need around 2.5 - 3 bees / sec.

Hm, look like I won't be able to make use of Spire soul shields, since my ping doesn't allow that kind of Rumblebee fire rate.

 

Seraph seems strictly tied to MSP 8-set. Without the set, Seraph is a weak sauce. Only 3-set Black Wind (100% Flying Nettle damage) can replace this. It might save me the hassle to get Spire Soul Shields, though.

 

What do you think about the reworked skill system that we might get this year? Flying Nettle deals 6s of DoT instead of 10s for the same damage.

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1 hour ago, Alysha Hawkeye said:

What do you think about the reworked skill system that we might get this year? Flying Nettle deals 6s of DoT instead of 10s for the same damage.

hmm complicated cause the dot mechanic in this game is awfull. Its 5 ticks and only 5 ticks completly irrelevant if the dot is 10, 15 or 20 seconds. So it should be more dmg in a shorter time, cause the pure scaling goes up to 20.

 

i can try to calculated some stuff we know from kr right now.

 

without any ss or weapon boost: 

earth: 16.83

wind: 16.66

 

with msp 8 ss no weapon

earth: 18.20

wind: 17.87

 

with msp 8 baleful stage 7 weapon

earth: 19.24

wind: 19.18

 

with msp 8 seraph stage 7 

earth: 19.84

wind: 19.93

 

with msp 5, bt 3 baleful stage 7

earth: 19.79

wind: 20.40

 

with msp 5, bt 3 seraph stage 10

earth: 19.54

wind: 19.73

 

this all calculated with 520 bees and 2 insta bees / sec (so around 90-100 ingame delay)

this all calculated with 250 super sunflower and 130 normal sunflower.

 

conclusion: looks like wind will be stronger with changes and msp3 + bt 3 + baleful. BUT there are no real changes, so these scallings are also there right now, but not that high. Cause the only dmg changes are:

nettles (earth) 15 over 10 sec + 3 on consecutive  --> 12.5 over 6 sec + 7.5 over 6 sec with ivy

nettles (wind) 10 over 10 sec --> 10 over 6 sec + 10 over 6 sec with ivy

doom'n'bloom (both) 1.2 over 10 sec --> 6.4 over 5 hits.

Weed Whack (both) 4.5 direct -> 15 over 6 sec.

 

 

so still low ping wind > earth, high ping earth > wind. Also wind will be much smoother cause q (focus gain) get a 18 sec cd. 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Kisagii said:

ive seen people using seref and it works well for them if using sunflower

Thanks for your input! I have switched to Separh 7 with MSP 8-set and am quite pleased with the DPS boost.

 

@RainbowDashie What about the use of the blue badge that let you stack three 10s second buff with Thorn Strike in order execute 3s of free-cooldown Nettle spam.

 

In order to stack the buff, you need 3 Thorn Strike. You have 10s between stack to build them up. Kinda like bleed building. Assuming if take you 25s to build 3 stacks, then for every 25s and you can only spam 3 Nettle for every time you get the buff. Thus, extra 3 Nettle for every 25s.

 

For a fight that span for 5 minutes, you would get the buff for 12 times, hence an extra of 36 Nettle.

 

Also, interestingly, the blue badge in KR is buffed to deal extra 2000% AP damage for the first hit (not sure the very first hit of the Nettle spam or the first hit of every Nettle under the buff):

 

http://bns.power.plaync.com/wiki/%EB%AA%85%ED%99%94%EC%8B%A0%EA%B3%B5%ED%8C%A8

 

The third one is the Thorn Strike stacking badge.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Alysha Hawkeye said:

In order to stack the buff, you need 3 Thorn Strike. You have 10s between stack to build them up. Kinda like bleed building. Assuming if take you 25s to build 3 stacks, then for every 25s and you can only spam 3 Nettle for every time you get the buff. Thus, extra 3 Nettle for every 25s.

 

For a fight that span for 5 minutes, you would get the buff for 12 times, hence an extra of 36 Nettle.

 

that badge is much stronger for earth build, but as already said in another summ thread its bound to earth. 

Also it could be much stronger then 12 times buff, i got in my 5 min tests only around 3-4 resets but 40+ thorn strikes. That mean around 21 thorn strike cause of 2 reset. 

that would result in possible 63 nettle spamm IF this badge dont have a cd AND it depends on your ping how many nettles you can throw in 3 sec. 

 

but i can calculate also with your 36 nettles (cause this sounds much more possible then my 63).

within 100 sec you could be ablte to gain 22 nettles and 1 time 4 nettles (holy shiat dps raise at 50 sec).

that would mean: Total Scaling raise up to 22.95

 

if we would use 20 sec between each badge activating it would go up to: 31 nettles within 100 sec and a total scaling of 26.07

 

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