Combat and Dodging

[OverdueRevenge]

I've been super excited to play Blade and Soul for a while now but I just didn't have a computer to play, however, I now find myself on the edge of my mind because of how the combat system works, at least, in relation to dodging and here's why: I'm just fighting some random monsters and even if I'm behind them, they're able to hit me, I'm not even in their field of view and I'm still taking damage, I've heard that there's a backstep dodging skill or w/e at a certain level but those may be outdated compared to the current version of the game. Is there really no way to dodge except for the backstep? If so, then I guess I'm already done with BnS, the combat system itself is fun to play with but this dodging is really a deal breaker for me. 

[TJXX]

Yes, you will still sometimes get hit even if you shouldn't.

[RyuueLaview]

My friend found this out too when he was doing a letsplay of bns.  He said that its like mob tracking or something? and was complaining that it was really stupid and horrible game design. Personally I agree it is very annoying  ._.,, I just kite when I have to and cross my fingers.

[OverdueRevenge]

1 hour ago, TJXX said:

Yes, you will still sometimes get hit even if you shouldn't.

Sometimes? It seems to happen all the time no matter what. 

 

1 hour ago, RyuueLaview said:

My friend found this out too when he was doing a letsplay of bns.  He said that its like mob tracking or something? and was complaining that it was really stupid and horrible game design. Personally I agree it is very annoying  ._.,, I just kite when I have to and cross my fingers.

I agree with you and your friend but since this is the case, I guess I'm quitting BnS even though I've barely played it

[Mirryn]

OK so...

Every class gets at some other iframe (aka dodge) skills besides SS eventually - some at higher levels than others.

 

Mobs will auto-turn to face you unless rooted... and if they're rooted, they cannot change facing angle

(unless they're like a BM mob with flock or some such)

 

Mobs have aoe skills too.

If you're inside the yellow/red circle, you're going to take damage

(or near it at a corner, they're not quite perfect circles imo?)

 

 

Beyond all of that... most skills that mobs use can be dodged simply by walking out of their area of effect before the cast completes...

 

[OverdueRevenge]

38 minutes ago, Mirryn said:

OK so...

Every class gets at some other iframe (aka dodge) skills besides SS eventually - some at higher levels than others.

 

Mobs will auto-turn to face you unless rooted... and if they're rooted, they cannot change facing angle

(unless they're like a BM mob with flock or some such)

 

Mobs have aoe skills too.

If you're inside the yellow/red circle, you're going to take damage

(or near it at a corner, they're not quite perfect circles imo?)

 

 

Beyond all of that... most skills that mobs use can be dodged simply by walking out of their area of effect before the cast completes...

 So the only way to dodge is to completely leave the area near the mobs? That's absolutely ridiculous for beginner level monsters and I have not seen any yellow or red circles so maybe that's for higher level things and I know about the auto turn but still. 

[Mirryn]

Without knowing what kind of mobs you're talking about, or what class you're playing, it's really hard to be more specific than that

 

Many smaller mobs have targeted abilities which function just like a player's targeted abilities - they only require range and being in field of view - but they generally have an animation related to them as well to let you block them or what have you

 

Most larger mobs use predominantly AoE abilities (some have targeted abilities but they are fairly uncommon), which will be marked on the ground unless you've disabled showing Boss Attack Range in Combat Info (settings)

 

 

What really concerns me about your post is that if you have aggro you cannot get out of a mob's FoV unless it is rooted or in the middle of an animation (and during an animation for a single target skill they will auto-face you as the animation completes to use their skill), so I'm somewhat confused as to how you're even getting behind mobs

[OverdueRevenge]

1 hour ago, Mirryn said:

Without knowing what kind of mobs you're talking about, or what class you're playing, it's really hard to be more specific than that

 

Many smaller mobs have targeted abilities which function just like a player's targeted abilities - they only require range and being in field of view - but they generally have an animation related to them as well to let you block them or what have you

 

Most larger mobs use predominantly AoE abilities (some have targeted abilities but they are fairly uncommon), which will be marked on the ground unless you've disabled showing Boss Attack Range in Combat Info (settings)

 

 

What really concerns me about your post is that if you have aggro you cannot get out of a mob's FoV unless it is rooted or in the middle of an animation (and during an animation for a single target skill they will auto-face you as the animation completes to use their skill), so I'm somewhat confused as to how you're even getting behind mobs

Im a blade dancer, im fighting crabs at that beginning town's beach area, that's it, that's all. 

[RyuueLaview]

what he's talking about is the mob tracking. where you can literally be behind a bm mob doing his RB stab (facing away from you) and it still hits you. Ideally, or more realistically, if you're out of the line of attack you're out. In bns its a little diff with melee mobs.

[Prototypemind]

There's also the issue of ping. Of course this can be a problem in any game, but BnS is pretty bad about having very tight reaction times that are just overkill for anything beyond about 50ms. As others have said though, yes, you can get tracked by attacks even if you've moved. This game isn't really full action combat.

[Rubel]

In bns, your dodges have to be well timed, you can't just dodge as soon as you see the attack coming. If you do this, your dodge will be over before the attack has happened. You'll find this with dungeon bosses as well as regular mobs. It's not poor design, you just aren't utilizing your dodges properly. That or you haven't received them yet, due to your level. Lyn BD has plenty of iframes.

[Hinu]

Are you seriously complaining about crabs auto lock-on attacks? You're what? probably lvl 4. Am pretty sure you don't even have any of your sidesteps yet.  Said crabs should also die in the first 3 seconds you engage them. If that's a deal breaker for you then about every mmos should too....

 

 

P.S: Consider that you are also lagging...alot,perhaps.

[TJXX]

6 hours ago, Hinu said:

Are you seriously complaining about crabs auto lock-on attacks? You're what? probably lvl 4. Am pretty sure you don't even have any of your sidesteps yet.  Said crabs should also die in the first 3 seconds you engage them. If that's a deal breaker for you then about every mmos should too....

 

 

P.S: Consider that you are also lagging...alot,perhaps.

I find it annoying too, but not enough to be a deal breaker.  There aren't many mmos with decent hitbox detection.

[OverdueRevenge]

11 hours ago, Hinu said:

Are you seriously complaining about crabs auto lock-on attacks? You're what? probably lvl 4. Am pretty sure you don't even have any of your sidesteps yet.  Said crabs should also die in the first 3 seconds you engage them. If that's a deal breaker for you then about every mmos should too....

 

 

P.S: Consider that you are also lagging...alot,perhaps.

Yes I am and you know what? No I'm not lagging, I have a average/decent enough connection with a good enough FPS, the issue being here is that NO OTHER mmo that I've ever played has ever been this bad/noticeable. 

[xXVevzZXx]

Quiting game cause you cant dodge. Seems legit. Have you played MMOs before?

[Zerecas]

This game is filled with targeting.

 

Wait til you reach to certain level where long ranged mob has skills that will trace you down, e.g. gun bullet that bend its direction and hit you. Or mob reset because the combat system deemed your position is unreachable for the mob even though you're just right in front of them.

[Shuchin]

No need to be toxic I think, I can understand your disappointment somewhat because clearly someone has advertised the B&S combat system to you as something it it is not (at least not quite). Dodging in B&S is not really done physically. There's no running behind pillars or around mobs usually, except for some very specific situations (the very slow boss attack son Mushin's Tower floor 2, for example).

Dodging and evading in B&S are primarily skill based, you have to use those skills and they confer a immunity protection to you while also moving you (sideways, back, around the opponent etc). They have cool downs and durations.

 

It does however matter where a mob or opponent player is facing. If they are rooted and you are out of their field of view, they cannot lock any skills that need targeting. They also cannot use counter or block skills and auto-block and auto-evade also do not work on attacks from behind. Soulfighters can even deal additional damage when attacking from behind.

 

So what I am saying there is a strong positional component to B&S combat, especially in PvP, but it's not working as you were led to believe. ^_^

[Raquilis]

37 minutes ago, OverdueRevenge said:

Yes I am and you know what? No I'm not lagging, I have a average/decent enough connection with a good enough FPS, the issue being here is that NO OTHER mmo that I've ever played has ever been this bad/noticeable. 

Sigh ... Aion. Try running away from a fireball or something. It will just sum up the damage after a while. Then the animation shows up a couple of minutes later. Same thing with FFXIV & WoW. Dude, its not perfect yes. But even the BEST MMOs have their flaws. Tolerate them and enjoy the good aspects of the game. I see you're still at the beginning. Believe me, The plot, ambience and dungeon raids (with a good party and decent ping) is totally captivating. At the beginning, just used to tour round new areas when I enter them, cos the graphic artists did a hell of a job. All I'm saying is, Nothing's perfect.

[TJXX]

Tera probably has the best free combat system of the games I've played.

[Lool]

Some attacks are lock-on and deal damage with delay. That gives you the time to react and use whatever defensive skills you might have. In early levels (before 10 I think) you get Q/E and SS evasion skills just for this. The vast majority of these attacks are low-damage and shouldn't pose too much of a threat unless you've pulled way too many mobs. Even then, BD gets some of the best crowd control skills, so these become trivial.

 

If you want to be able to "dodge" attacks by merely walking around mobs, then you might have to fight a field boss. (For an early example, find an empty channel and fight the Stalker Jiangshi. You'll notice the difference between the two attack types.)

 

This type of enemy behaviour is unfortunately standard across MMOs. BnS turns out to be one of the better ones in this regard, especially if you play a class with a dedicated block. Try BM or KFM instead of BD. (BD gets a 0.5 second deflect once you can put skill points into its Tab skill, whereas BM and KFM start out being able to directly interact with these lock-on attacks.)

 

*Oh, as a less important note, these lock-on attacks have limited range. They're typically ~3m or so. You can walk away from them as long as you aren't going backwards.