Dungeon requirements discussion

[skelettbus]

Here some pros and cons about requirements:

 

1st XXX AP

 

Attack Power can be cheated in some ways (unrefined galaxy weapon, event gems) but it reflects an overall gear and dungeon progression. This method is commonly used and most people start new dungeons once they meet the ap requirements. So a sub 600AP player will probably not have experience in tomb citadel or foundry. 

Here is the negative: AP can be cheated, and high AP does not mean high dps. Ever seen someone with true scorp weapon and infernal acc (trust me these guys exist). They have good Ap but awful dps.

 

2nd: XXk DPS

 

Most people use requirements to achieve fast runs. A dps requirement would make sure that your party members will clear the content fast and it gives a chance for low geared players to play more difficult dungeons if they have a good dps rotation.

Cons: Class discrimination. Destroyer are currently weak in PVE and they would have it harder. Beside destros, certain classes like FM or BM have a much easier reaching DPS thresholds than buff classes like KFM. Another con: we cannot share dps meter while in dungeon lobby. It would be nice to save dps meters for future use.

 

3rd: Killproof and Achievements

 

Some groups use this with Method 1 to raise their requirements. Achivements are a great way to show experience and knowledge of mechanics. If someone has 5 kills on lord of the flame, he won't likely ruin your dt run, even if he has 500 AP. This can also be used as a proof for DPS with the mushing tower achievements (Master or Sobriety equals 14,5k DPS, Master of Darkness around 21k).

Cons: Excludes players who are new to the content. No dungeon is so hard that you cannot carry 1 or 2 newbies, but these people would get excluded.

 

Conclusion: The current AP requirements are not optimal but a good and fair filter for dungeon entry. I would encourage the community not to use too high requirements. Do you really need 650 AP for Lair 6 man??? 

 

[doitztard]

Ap is only way xxx dps wont work cause u have to go in game to look at dps meter or no evident way in 6 man, killproof achievements people also have to go in dungeon to show off achievements and primary reason people put ap requirements is speed. 650 ap for lair 6 man is unnecessary but what do you expect from the community -_-

[Kisagii]

Ap does not mean anything, what raises your dps is your crit dmg and your accuracy on your crits. Just like as of now and I'm not sure about any other classes, but the ap buff does nothing for WLs except for maybe an RMB buff and that's it since the class relies on crit. 

 

If any class want to be high on dps you need your crits to be high so you can get it. The ap is only something that increases your normal dmg, but it's not big.

[Shuchin]

Personally, I favour an approach based on trust and honesty. I ask if people are experienced, and if they say they are, I trust them no matter their stats. Might be a re-roll, might be an alt. Also like many, I do not mind teaching if people say they are inexperienced but want to learn.

 

Just as a side note, a dps achievement probably won't work, as you can get very high dps spikes. Like I have had 60k+ dps for a few seconds under SB+bluebuff. So I just need to pick a real low HP boss and burst him down within a single SB.

 

I sort of like the idea to ask for the achievement of having completed the dungeon that you are applying for, simply because it incorporates experience more than stats. But in general I am not a fan of excluding people, smells too much of elitism...

[dualistique]

I think there's a fine line between 'elitism' and 'just wanting to get things done'.  You wouldn't want an intern fixing a big computer problem if your core business is down.   So even though it may seem 'elitism', I think it's perfectly fine to have high requirements depending on your play schedule.  Everyone's different in their play time.   People have work, school, life, family, or social activities, and so not a lot of people are going to want to sit around to explain mechanics or go through multiple wipes.

 

Sure you can teach the interns how to do things, but when it comes to important things like this event, every minute counts.  It gets a little frustrating when you're doing necro, and all of a sudden a core fails.  That's just extra unnecessary time added to your day on BnS.

 

The best thing to do in these situations, is to create your own party and recruit with your own requirements.  No one's forcing you to wait around until you see a group that you can fit in.  Can't find one?  Make one.  There will be others just like you that wants a party of the same requirements.  If you put up a "Desolate Tomb - Learning Run",  there will be people that will be interested.

 

I would like to see some changes in the ways dungeons are carried.  I enjoy the mentor/mentee system that other MMOs have and incentives for experienced players to help first-timers clear a dungeon.  If this was a thing in BnS, I think it'll teach people to have more patience.

[Moody565]

Can you enlighten how are people that are not whales ever going to see the content ? I dont want to play low level content that no1 cares to play, only to come there one year later and than try to find a group to play, in one year there will only be whales left playing each other, if not even before that. We will see what this patch brings i guess.People want to see the content, not do 6+ months 4-6 dungeons every day, which dont drop anything much useful, except hope to get some gold.

[RainbowDashie]

55 minutes ago, Moody565 said:

Can you enlighten how are people that are not whales ever going to see the content ? I dont want to play low level content that no1 cares to play, only to come there one year later and than try to find a group to play, in one year there will only be whales left playing each other, if not even before that. We will see what this patch brings i guess.People want to see the content, not do 6+ months 4-6 dungeons every day, which dont drop anything much useful, except hope to get some gold.

then quit and dont touch a grind korea mmo ever again.

[TJXX]

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 5:39 PM, Kisagii said:

Ap does not mean anything, what raises your dps is your crit dmg and your accuracy on your crits. Just like as of now and I'm not sure about any other classes, but the ap buff does nothing for WLs except for maybe an RMB buff and that's it since the class relies on crit. 

 

If any class want to be high on dps you need your crits to be high so you can get it. The ap is only something that increases your normal dmg, but it's not big.

Ap raises crit and non crit damage. 

[TJXX]

Here are the "requirements" for most purple dungeons that don't have self damage mechanics. (Counting for 5 stacks of bleed to stop regen.)

Avalance Den: Angler Yeti: 400 seconds to do 5,700,000 = 14,250 dps required.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 2,375 per person.

 

Lair of the Frozen Fang: Bloodscale Naga King: 210 seconds to do 3,930,000 = 18,714 dps. Divide by by 6 people and the dps required is 3,119 per person.

Tetralisk Queen: 170 seconds to do 3,150,000 = 18,529 dps.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 3,088 per person.

 

Awakened Necropolis: Scorpion Queen: 185 seconds to do 3,440,000 = 18,595 dps.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 3,099 per person.

 

Sundered Nexus: Drill Sergeant: 360 seconds to do 5,180,000 = 14,388 dps required.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 2,398 per person.

TE-1138 Heavenpiercer: 480 seconds to do 8,450,000 = 17,604 dps required.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 2,934 dps per person.

 

Gloomdross Incursion: Baruk: 360 seconds to do 8,729,500 = 24,249 dps required.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 4,041 per person.

 

The Shattered Masts: Scarlet/Cobalt monstrosity: 360 seconds to do 3,300,000 = 9,166 dps required.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 1,528 per person.  Aoe dps.

Kuwajin: 300 seconds to do 5,490,000 = 18,300 dps required.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 3,050 per person.

Taikhan: 540 seconds to do 10,828,000 = 20,052 dps required.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 3,342 per person. (He has 11,028,000 hp, but at 200k he jumps the the middle and you pretty much win.)

 

Sogun's Lament: ken/gen:  420 seconds to do 5,947,000 = 14,160 dps.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 2,360 per person. Aoe dps.

Iruga: 300 seconds to do 12,600,000 = 42,000 dps.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 7,000 per person.  12 stacks of Wrathful Spears and a shield throw does around 1.8 million damage each time to him, lowering the dps requirement even more.

Asura: 500 seconds to do 11,210,000 = 22,420 dps.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 3,737 per person.

 

[RainbowDashie]

14 minutes ago, TJXX said:

Lair of the Frozen Fang: 

1 of them also have this totem buff stuff, so it will be a little bit higher cause of the totem you will get.
 

 

15 minutes ago, TJXX said:

Sundered Nexus: Drill Sergeant: 360 seconds to do 5,180,000 = 14,388 dps required.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 2,398 per person.

it is a little bit higher cause of the around 15 sec downtime you will have each immunity phase of him.

 

16 minutes ago, TJXX said:

Gloomdross Incursion: Baruk: 360 seconds to do 8,729,500 = 24,249 dps required.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 4,041 per person.

There are timings of 3-5 sec where 1 person cant attack the boss cause of mechanic. So the overall dps would slightly increase

 

17 minutes ago, TJXX said:

Taikhan: 540 seconds to do 10,828,000 = 20,052 dps required.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 3,342 per person. (He has 11,028,000 hp, but at 200k he jumps the the middle and you pretty much win.)

Also have quite some time where he is out of range to attack him cause of mechanic which will also increase the overall dps needed.

18 minutes ago, TJXX said:

Sogun's Lament: ken/gen:  420 seconds to do 5,947,000 = 14,160 dps.  Divide by 6 people and the dps required is 2,360 per person. Aoe dps.

dont forget the silver "buff" you and gen will receive. all with silver buff will receive less dmg and on stage 3 its significant less dmg. So also here the overall dops is higher.

[TJXX]

The downtime and buffs/debuffs don't change the dps requirement, they just change your total uptime. 

[RainbowDashie]

1 hour ago, TJXX said:

The downtime and buffs/debuffs don't change the dps requirement, they just change your total uptime. 

if you calculated with the total enrage time it change something. If you have a 30 downtime for ken/ gen then you just have 390 sec to do 5,947,000 dmg = 15,248 group dps. That mean 2,5k solo dps that is 200 dps more then you have written. This was just an example.