Stop boosting BD and fix what needs fixing! (FM,Des)

[Zerecas]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 10:50 AM, Zerecas said:

2. Only armor heals, and that is either 5% HP per minute, or 25% per minute with Soul badge, by default.

It's 2017, not 2016 45 cap.

[fignus]

Geez people...first of all these changes are old. KR got them long time ago and we were supposed to get them with one of the last skill patches months ago but NCsoft just "forgot" to add the BD Buffs and the slightly BM nerf. If you want to get a feeling about how much these changes AND the upcoming 55 patch affect pvp then you can check the KR 1vs1 Top 100 Ladder. If you just want to play an op class based on current patches then i would say roll an Assassin or make a WL if you want to faceroll Infinity Tower too for the exchange to be not as op as an Assassin in pvp.

 

But okay since you guys are talking the whole time about pvp in combination with these changes...lets break it down. There is not really much to say since FrozenB said it on page 1 already but here again for the few of you who still refuse to understand it. These changes dont affect pvp much if they affect pvp at all. These changes are mostly pve buffs which isnt really a reason to cry about. I mean why would you be mad if one of your teammates does a little bit more damage? Are you afraid not to be #1 on DPS meter anymore or do you like the thrill when the rage timer is about to kick in? Ok Ok lets take a closer look to the skills which got changed:

 

Multislash: This change doesnt affect pvp. Why? Because BDs use "Raid" instead because they want a) the stun b) the guaranteed crit by using Flicker and c) dont want to loose Draw Stance after using it. Multislash is just to deal damage and only be used if you play Wind Build which i cant remember that i saw any BD using it in pvp. I assume its as rare as getting the outfit Infinite Challange on first try. This change might be great in the future (pve wise) since Wind Build gets some nice Buffs from 55 patch and upcoming badges, legendaries and soul shields. From what i heard it might be on par with Lightning Build but requires the upcoming items to be full effective, ofc.

 

Storm Cleave: This change doesnt affect pvp much if it affects pvp at all. Most BDs use "Dual Strike" instead. They either use the iFrame version or the AOE Pull / Daze. The reasons why they do it should be obvious. I saw maybe mhmm 1 BD using Storm Cleave in a 6v6 Video but that was a Whale and tbh you cant do much against a True Hongmoon Whale who hits you for 20-40k per hit anyway. The change of the skill is mostly for pve - a little bit more extra damage from an additional DOT.

 

Lightning Draw: First change that affects pve and pvp as well. Yes, the increased damage might have an impact BUT the extra damage comes from a DOT - means its basically your own fault that you keep staying in the AOE field and get damage and tbh if you keep staying in it then you deserve it to get hit by this skill. Just avoid it like you do already and it doesnt do much. About the extra grab damage mhmm. Doesnt affect 1v1 at all since noone is there to grab the enemy for you. About 6v6 yeah might be that a nice Destro or BD grabs it and you are lucky enough to be at the right time at the right place AND have Lightning Draw ready. Side note: Correct me when iam wrong but isnt the damage of Lightning Draw around the damage of BMs version of Lightning Draw? If so...why dont i see anyone crying about it?

 

Lightning Flash: From what i heard its not a big buff. Its more a buff for BDs who have problems to ani-cancel flawlessly. The few of you who dont know it - Lightning Flash is a skill which does damage over 2 hits - means if you ani-cancel too fast then it might happen that you skip the 2nd hit and loose DPS, ofc. The reason of this change is to "fix" this - the animation is faster, the 2nd hit hits faster. This change doesnt affect BDs who had no problems with ani-canceling. It doesnt increase their damage because they cant pull off more "Lighning Flashs" out of a sudden cause of Global Cooldowns which doesnt get affected by this patch. Its just an increase of the casting speed. In short: NO extra damage for BDs who were able to ani-cancel flawlessly.

 

Mhm i think thats it. That were all changes which we get with the next patch. Feel free to correct me and ofc, you still wont like the changes and it might be that you see BDs using certain skills in pvp where i said they dont. Iam not talking about ALL BDs, just the majority and what i see on a daily basis. I understand the feeling of destroyers. I cant say much about them since i dont play them but from what i saw Destros get some nice goodies with the upcoming soul shields, legendaries and badges which will buff their damage. I know i know you want these goodies NOW and you cant wait but its the same with BDs or any other class. The buffs are out there..we just have to wait.

 

AH - here a small teaser of what you can hope for: Tiny BM buff which KR got lately. Just scroll down and check the video + the small description above. Enjoy :)

 

 

[hwalien]

I have to agree on the fact that this change doesn't effect PVP much however, playing one made me think that this class is some what BS compare to some others. And I think that's where people are having problem with this patch. any buff to class that is already good enough will make people complaint about it. 

 

for those who are defending BD, 0I see ppl keep saying how other class has cc combo where you go from 100 - 0. yeah this is some what true but most of the time this is possible cus you waist your tab escape for no good reason. besides, do we really need some BS skill to one shot someone with one air combo?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FrozenB]

31 minutes ago, hwalien said:

I have to agree on the fact that this change doesn't effect PVP much however, playing one made me think that this class is some what BS compare to some others. And I think that's where people are having problem with this patch. any buff to class that is already good enough will make people complaint about it. 

 

for those who are defending BD, 0I see ppl keep saying how other class has cc combo where you go from 100 - 0. yeah this is some what true but most of the time this is possible cus you waist your tab escape for no good reason. besides, do we really need some BS skill to one shot someone with one air combo?

There are no air combo to 1 shot someone in the game unless you are talking about 6v6 battleground or OpenWorld PVP, which requires other players (FM, WL, summoner or even SF) to add additional damage to the player who got tossed up in the air. Almost every class has the ability to toss people up in the air, but BD has slightly longer animation due to air combo. It is the same as grab, which rely on other players to do the damage as well. In fact, BD is more like a support class than a damage class and yet people are complaining about a minor buff in damage (close to nothing in term of PVP) for BD.

[hwalien]

23 hours ago, FrozenB said:

There are no air combo to 1 shot someone in the game unless you are talking about 6v6 battleground or OpenWorld PVP, which requires other players (FM, WL, summoner or even SF) to add additional damage to the player who got tossed up in the air. Almost every class has the ability to toss people up in the air, but BD has slightly longer animation due to air combo. It is the same as grab, which rely on other players to do the damage as well. In fact, BD is more like a support class than a damage class and yet people are complaining about a minor buff in damage (close to nothing in term of PVP) for BD.

im just saying, does BD really need 100 - 0 combo on top of what we have already.

[Lerialis]

47 minutes ago, hwalien said:

im just saying, does BD really need 100 - 0 combo on top of what we have already.

We are already good enough. No boost needed.

[Shushi]

On 1/16/2017 at 11:40 PM, FrozenB said:

There are no air combo to 1 shot someone in the game unless you are talking about 6v6 battleground or OpenWorld PVP, which requires other players (FM, WL, summoner or even SF) to add additional damage to the player who got tossed up in the air. Almost every class has the ability to toss people up in the air, but BD has slightly longer animation due to air combo. It is the same as grab, which rely on other players to do the damage as well. In fact, BD is more like a support class than a damage class and yet people are complaining about a minor buff in damage (close to nothing in term of PVP) for BD.

You are wrong. There is an air combo that can 1 shot you, ask some WL to show you how it's done .. you don't even reach the ground you just die in the air ! :D

[Sommy]

60k hp then 47k in arena will be better for stand that cancer dmg

[FrozenB]

20 hours ago, hwalien said:

im just saying, does BD really need 100 - 0 combo on top of what we have already.

I agree that it is such a huge damage especially with SB. I don't think it is 100-0 air combo. I never caught into 100-0 combo beside sin and BM (fire blade) combo. The air combo is most likely 60-70% in F9. In battleground, it is possible 100-0 air combo by WL if that player is whale and has max gear.

[ARC1276]

On 1/13/2017 at 2:33 PM, Inorelin said:

you lot are very unfair, destroyers and some other classes can kill a player in one short combo but you are mad about air combo that does almost no damage.  We have to beat on people a lot more compared to most others, the boost is fine, y'all just mad to be killed by something smaller than your giant pornstar charas, yeah come at me mad besterds.

 

 

But as for Blade Dancers...*cricket* em. They're a spoiled class that has had it too good for too long and needs to be nerfed. They always have. I guess you can say that's not necessarily true  given that they're just barely in the top 30s, but there's also a noticeable lack of FMs in the TOP 50s! 

 

Listen, Destroyers aren't exactly the first thing I think of when I think they need a buff because there is a noticeably large gap between a Destroyer with HM skills and a Destroyer without. Either way, the fighting style is very similar, but the addition of HM Ember Stomp and Shield makes them impossible to kill in some cases. Although it is that reliance on HM skills that leaves most new Destroyers at a disadvantage. 

 

But if you really want to talk about a class relying solely on HM skills in order to even survive, look no farther than the FM. My KFM and SF require some HM skills to help boost them in PVP, but FM I can't imagine how it must be like being a new player. Holy crap! Just imagine! HM Impact requires either a lot of PVP or a lot of PVE. Then we need the Dragonchar HM skill (the Volume 3 version), and even then you still will want the HM grip (I personally don't advice using it, I would just go with the shorter ranged grip, but whatever). Then there's the very nature of the class. The class has the least amount of CCs in the game. We get glacial beam (stun), dragonchar (daze), tab (daze), and then we get heatwave (KD/Daze) which is designed for PVE and would instantly eliminate our ability to air combo. Notice how I didn't mention impact? That's because impact stun is the single hardest stun to get off in the entire game, probably second to the SF counter (seriously I can never seem to get someone to hit into it). It requires us to freeze our opponents meaning we need 3 chill stacked, which is near impossible when your opponent can iframe/block/counter/parry just about everything you do. Let's not forget that BDs and Des can break out of freeze with spin and they regenerate Focus when they do. 

 

My suggestion to boost the FM class is to have a skill proct up every time we iframe an attack with Q and E, similar to how KFMs proct Triple Kick and sins are put into stealth. This way it requires a sense of timing and we give the FM something to use against opponents. My thoughts would be that the FM would Deep Freeze when using Frost Step and Daze when using Fire Step. The Deep Freeze should also be designed so the FM can get a free stun off once it's used, and I feel that the Fire Step should apply a 6 second burn. Heck I even went forward with the names of such skills: When procted using Q: Flash Burn When procted using E: Flash Freeze. Maybe even give them the ability to specialize it for PVE and PVP, like making it an AoE damage dealer. 

 

The idea is that it gives the FM a new level of mastery, while rewarding players who can pull it off, it'll be under the F key and it penetrates parry, defense. Punishing the player who hits into it and rewarding the FM who uses it. Maybe even add on a resistance for 0.5 seconds after using it, for good measure. 

[FrozenB]

25 minutes ago, ARC1276 said:

 

 

But as for Blade Dancers...*cricket* em. They're a spoiled class that has had it too good for too long and needs to be nerfed. They always have. I guess you can say that's not necessarily true  given that they're just barely in the top 30s, but there's also a noticeable lack of FMs in the TOP 50s! 

 

Listen, Destroyers aren't exactly the first thing I think of when I think they need a buff because there is a noticeably large gap between a Destroyer with HM skills and a Destroyer without. Either way, the fighting style is very similar, but the addition of HM Ember Stomp and Shield makes them impossible to kill in some cases. Although it is that reliance on HM skills that leaves most new Destroyers at a disadvantage. 

 

But if you really want to talk about a class relying solely on HM skills in order to even survive, look no farther than the FM. My KFM and SF require some HM skills to help boost them in PVP, but FM I can't imagine how it must be like being a new player. Holy crap! Just imagine! HM Impact requires either a lot of PVP or a lot of PVE. Then we need the Dragonchar HM skill (the Volume 3 version), and even then you still will want the HM grip (I personally don't advice using it, I would just go with the shorter ranged grip, but whatever). Then there's the very nature of the class. The class has the least amount of CCs in the game. We get glacial beam (stun), dragonchar (daze), tab (daze), and then we get heatwave (KD/Daze) which is designed for PVE and would instantly eliminate our ability to air combo. Notice how I didn't mention impact? That's because impact stun is the single hardest stun to get off in the entire game, probably second to the SF counter (seriously I can never seem to get someone to hit into it). It requires us to freeze our opponents meaning we need 3 chill stacked, which is near impossible when your opponent can iframe/block/counter/parry just about everything you do. Let's not forget that BDs and Des can break out of freeze with spin and they regenerate Focus when they do. 

 

My suggestion to boost the FM class is to have a skill proct up every time we iframe an attack with Q and E, similar to how KFMs proct Triple Kick and sins are put into stealth. This way it requires a sense of timing and we give the FM something to use against opponents. My thoughts would be that the FM would Deep Freeze when using Frost Step and Daze when using Fire Step. The Deep Freeze should also be designed so the FM can get a free stun off once it's used, and I feel that the Fire Step should apply a 6 second burn. Heck I even went forward with the names of such skills: When procted using Q: Flash Burn When procted using E: Flash Freeze. Maybe even give them the ability to specialize it for PVE and PVP, like making it an AoE damage dealer. 

 

The idea is that it gives the FM a new level of mastery, while rewarding players who can pull it off, it'll be under the F key and it penetrates parry, defense. Punishing the player who hits into it and rewarding the FM who uses it. Maybe even add on a resistance for 0.5 seconds after using it, for good measure. 

I don't mind if they boost FM, but only if they remove the ice chill first because it is so unfair for us to be punished when we hit the FMs. How can we get a debuff if we successfully touch an opponent (it is not a single debuff, it is a continuous debuff unless the FM forgot to cast the skill.) That doesn't make sense. If they don't remove this skill or revamp this skill, don't talk about boosting FM because literally, we would all die before we can even do a slight damage to FM.

[xVenny]

On 13/01/2017 at 9:33 PM, Inorelin said:

you lot are very unfair, destroyers and some other classes can kill a player in one short combo but you are mad about air combo that does almost no damage.  We have to beat on people a lot more compared to most others, the boost is fine, y'all just mad to be killed by something smaller than your giant pornstar charas, yeah come at me mad besterds.

What in the world are you on about?? Any class can do that. Look at destro DPS in PVE and then talk to me about fair.

 

[Sovyen]

Umm, BD is still not overpowered lol. I've played every class and played against every class. Summoner needs the boot, sin needs the boot, BD needs to get phantom grip CD increased, FM needs less heals/roots, des needs less focus increase, bm is just bad now, WL is still decent, KFM needs a longer backstep CD or other CD and SF needs CD decreases.

 

The PvP in the entire game is broken, you cannot complain about a single class.

[NightRain]

I have to Agree the ax and the FM can keep you in daze for some time and still  then the ax is able to pick you up and walk around without breaaking it AX stop complaining  the SF hasnt had no Updates in Skills the rest of the classes are

 

[Sovyen]

I don't think I could've explained it better myself ^

 

but when I took a break, SF went from top tier to crap tier. ;-; qq

[Zaign]

Complaining here will do nothing. They are not in charge of Class changes or anything of the sort. The Class changes are built around Korea's content/current patches. Telling NCwest to stop boosting a class or constantly complaining about Destroyers isnt going to help anything. At all. I get where people are coming from, but we're getting these class changes way before we're getting the gear/content other regions have.

 

Just one of those instances where you have to suck it up honestly. That or take a break for a while and come back later.  

[GenericNick]

@Zaign This has been said over and over again. One thing to add though, is there was really no pressure on them to even acknowledge the balance issue - to the point where Babbletron was shameless enough to comment on Des current situation as "I like it because it has a big axe" and "provides critical utility to the party".

 

Back to the topic of BDs though - welcome our new rabbit DPS overlords.

[Sovyen]

^ I made my BD right on release so I can't get crap. Even still, the bd is still bullcrap. In terms of OP and UP.

[Lerialis]

12 minutes ago, GenericNick said:

Back to the topic of BDs though - welcome our new rabbit DPS overlords.

Yee, now i will be hated because i play BD from start. Lets begin. Please, hate players who reroling to BD right now. Just like many players maked their BMs months ago. Same shit happening right now.

[werat]

Dest do not need boosting since what I get from the original complaint is directed towards the PvP play of the classes. BD do not need boosting when it comes to PvP either in my opinion. One hit from a dest and you get stuck in their combo that kills you in like no time at all. You can't attack them close range because of their spinning and you can't attack far away either because they just deflect your shot and stun you and jump on you. Then you're stuck in their close range spinning attack. BD's spinning stuff seems like the same thing is going on. BD in PvE I can't say if they do need boosts or not. I haven't played as one. All I can say is Des for PvP needs to be nerfed a bit. They shouldn't be able to do some much against far away attacks on top of close range as well. They're practically untouchable. Honestly seems like Dest and BD are the same class but with a different title expect BD does an air attack and Dest do a grab attack.

[FrozenB]

34 minutes ago, werat said:

Dest do not need boosting since what I get from the original complaint is directed towards the PvP play of the classes. BD do not need boosting when it comes to PvP either in my opinion. One hit from a dest and you get stuck in their combo that kills you in like no time at all. You can't attack them close range because of their spinning and you can't attack far away either because they just deflect your shot and stun you and jump on you. Then you're stuck in their close range spinning attack. BD's spinning stuff seems like the same thing is going on. BD in PvE I can't say if they do need boosts or not. I haven't played as one. All I can say is Des for PvP needs to be nerfed a bit. They shouldn't be able to do some much against far away attacks on top of close range as well. They're practically untouchable. Honestly seems like Dest and BD are the same class but with a different title expect BD does an air attack and Dest do a grab attack.

Please read the posts (not only title) before you make comments. They didn't boost BD in PVP at all, but they did in PVE aspect. Also, this boost was supposed to come along with skill revamp of all classes back in October/November 2016. This skill patch comes late already. 

 

Also, for the people who want to boost or nerf about certain classes, I recommend you guys to use google translate and make posts in Korean B&S offical website. NCsoft can't do anything about class balance. Whatever patch KR gives them, they just implement it. If you think NCsoft will pass your class balance idea to Korean technical team, then you can keep dreaming.

 

By the way, 2016 B&S world championship, 1st place is SF, 2nd place is BM, 3rd place is FM. If there are nerf in the upcoming months, it will be for these 3 classes first.

[werat]

6 hours ago, FrozenB said:

Please read the posts (not only title) before you make comments. They didn't boost BD in PVP at all, but they did in PVE aspect. Also, this boost was supposed to come along with skill revamp of all classes back in October/November 2016. This skill patch comes late already. 

Sounds like you need to read what I wrote. The person complaining is talking about PvP or at least that is where the conversation went in this forum, not PvE. I know what the boost is for, hence why I mentioned BD and PvE. When people complain about a class it is because of PvP. No one is going to complain about PvE when it comes to classes. A little common sense would tell you that. If you subtract PvP out of the game, you wouldn't hear a peep about class except for what the person is playing themselves and not about other classes. 

[Zerecas]

8 hours ago, Sovyen said:

sin needs the boot, FM needs less heals/roots,

Nice joke, less heal?

From 5% to 1% per minute is that what you mean?

[Dearsren]

13 hours ago, Zerecas said:

Nice joke, less heal?

From 5% to 1% per minute is that what you mean?

it comes even worse, if it's true:

 

Frost Armor (Tab):

    Stage 1/Type 1 (Lifesteal):

        Removed effect: Heals the user 1% of their health on resist

        Removed effect: Heals the user 10% of their health over 10 sec

        Removed effect: Inflicts 5 meter knockback on cancelling skill

    Stage 2/Type 2 (Freeze):

        Removed effect: Heals the user 1% of their health on resist

        Removed effect: Heals the user 10% of their health over 10 sec

 

http://pastebin.com/jNMMfec6

 

so there will no healing ability be left in the 1min cd version of frost tab. Only in 3min version.

on the other side we are actually have only 5% heal now... maybe it's not correct and on bnstree there is still the 5% healing and 1% resist heal in the description. But could be it's not up to date^^

 

https://bnstree.com/skill/FM

 

seems like de devs have much fun with cripple FM in PvP more and more without any reason.

[Polite]

Des will be top dps soon so just chill your horses...