Stop boosting BD and fix what needs fixing! (FM,Des)

[Quantum]

1 hour ago, Plexi said:

Please tell me what those FMs are doing to win against you, I could use some tips.

Frost Orbs, chill, or whatever it's called. That annoying debuff that snares and disables "move to target" skills when you attack FMs. That's the only reason why I have trouble with FMs. Not to mention that some FMs like to jump around like bunnies which is annoying.

[Zedonia]

4 minutes ago, Zerecas said:

Wrong.

It's not wrong but it only works in 6v6 because no one in arena is that dump to attack a FM within both shields.

23 minutes ago, FrozenB said:

DPS and ping is related to each other.

Of course it is but ping should never be an argument in a dps discussion. Every class is shit with high ping and every class can do good dps with good ping. BD can do great dps, so can SUM and SF and even destro is not that bad if the players knows how to play. Destro might not be one of the best dps classes but it's not that bad as people try to explain so often.

[Rea Shinwa]

1 hour ago, GenericNick said:

This is just not true. At this very mooment (pre-patch) they're almost hanging up there with the top dogs due to 8pc turtle + elemental earring and vastly outclassing destroyers in every single PvE field. Get your facts straight.

Not every bd has 8 pc turtle + elemental. That's without mentioning the ping issue that FrozenB pointed at. As a HM 11 bd with 5 turtle pieces and no legendary accesories or weapon, playing on NA from EU, and at 705 ap, I am tired of hearing things  like "dont be a useless rat, kid" in 4-man dungeons due to my dps being lower than BM/Sin/Others even though I grab for them all and HM guard and do a "decent" dps. Aside from me not being a furry, nor "cute", not at all a kid, etc etc. I never insulted anyone for making their chars "human-like" in a game, lol, nor do I complain about any other class' skills. They all have weaknesses and strenghts, so to say. Enjoy the game and the nice company when you find it... rare as it is, it still exists : )

[Zerecas]

2 minutes ago, Zedonia said:

It's not wrong but it only works in 6v6 because no one in arena is that dump to attack a FM within both shields.

1. His statement is about the two ice shields, not the veil that trigger the mechanism.

2. Only armor heals, and that is either 5% HP per minute, or 25% per minute with Soul badge, by default.

3. 6v6 is just one aspect, that badge isn't applicable to 1v1 or 3v3.

4. Even to take divine veil into consideration, like you said, no sane individual is dumb enough to hit your dual defense.

5. Furthermore, not every matches in 6v6 that your opponents are ranged, Divine Veil mechanism is utter failure against melees.

6. Melee is more conscious about their skill usage, it is unlikely that they will still continue to execute their combo onto FM's dual defense (Veil + Self freeze), this render the entire mechanism a failure in ALL aspect of PvP.

7. If they are aware of the mechanism, what makes you think that FM can easily heal to 100% instantly without finding a dumbass to do it, bronze/ silver rank maybe? Is it even practical in all aspect?

8. Divine Veil heals 10% HP by default, just as someone said, one air combo can easily offset recovery in no time in both Arena and Battleground.

9. FM has no melee resistance skills against melee, while melees have range resistance skills to aid them pretty much most of the time given that their air combos not only deal decent damage but also a good stalling skills. Not even calculating the remaining CC skills that they have.

10. Air combo is inescapable. The ease of execution and the repetition makes it way more stronger.

[FrozenB]

melees have range resistance skills? You mean iframes? Q, E, SS or skills with iframes? I am not sure what you are referring here. If you refer to spin, you know there is 0.5 sec window that can penetrate the spin without getting stun? Most of the FMs in high gold rank can spam attack without getting stun once. Again, you need good ping in order to do that. If melees have no range resistance skills, then it is all GG for melee. No one will play melee classes in this game since literally, they will all die before they can come close to range class and hit them once.

 

Yes, air combo is inescapable. FM has air combo as well. In fact, that air combo is more deadly combining with fire attacks. Refer to the 2016 world championship FM korean player. That combo is quite insane.

 

As I mentioned above, air combo is just to stall time. FM has 2 shields as well just have the same purpose and with additional heals as well. I haven't even mention about the bubble for blocking and minor heals too. At least FM has a chance to get additional heal if other opponent makes mistake. BD only have 1 skill to heal 10% hp or 15% hp (HM skill) with 5 resists only. 

[Zerecas]

Guardian Tempest, Five Point Strike, Maelstrom, etc

 

"If melees have no range resistance skills, then it is all GG for melee." True, not being sarcastic. But in the same way, because FM do not has any melee resistance skill, and melee in this game isn't entirely melee manual, they have their own auto-targeting opening skills, it resulted in FM being the minority in the top 100 board, that is a fact, here or in KR.

 

FM air combo setup isn't as easy as BM & BD.

 

Many classes can stall time for their skills to reset, its not the first time that I see Assassin play hit and run, Destroyer and Blade Dancer spinning away, literally every melee classes have their own speedy walk to distance themselves from range classes. FM can stall time too, by what? Jumping and backing while RMB them out? How effective it is? Can FM really spam skills while distance themselves away from melees? Are they not afraid of the deflects? Not afraid of the rushing skills? (close gap)

 

Air combo of melees stall time while attacking in the same time, it gives you the upper hand to execute the following combo. FM's ice shields, both of them isn't. It literally immobile the user itself, if this is consider as time stalling for FM, is it not one way of time stalling for the opponent too? Given that opponent can always ready for the next hit as soon as the ice wore off, its not like the opponent is getting CC'd by the ice shield the way air combo did to FM.

 

The bubble is called Divine Veil, stated above, it does not block melee skills.

Besides, 15% HP Recovery of Guardian Tempest has 36s cooldown, the same as immobilized version of Divine Veil, difference is that Divine Veil heals 10% HP by default.

What does BD famous for recently? Their dual grab, 5% HP Recovery every 30s cooldown. Under the calculation of 1 minute, you really think the HP recovery of BD is not comparable to FMs?

[Valiant]

3 hours ago, FrozenB said:

 

BD PVE damage sucks so bad. They are at the bottom list of all classes. We got a little boost in skill revamp back in september or october, but that just made BD to survive longer in PVE due to more hp leech skills.

 

In PVP, i don't feel BD has advantage. if you are saying BD is spin to win class, then destroyer is also the same. Almost every class has 1 KO combo (actually BM has 2 KO combo). It depends on if you wastes your tab escape skill on useless stuff or not.

BD 100% better than Destroyer DPS, So don't act like your class is the bottom of dps in pve your class;

Infact let's look at something level1 of damage BD=FM=KFM=SF damage out put while Summoner=Assassin a higher leveler than your class while the top ofcourse right now is Warlock= BM

 

Destroyer is the bottom really here and ofcourse you can agree 

 

But Destroyer got no KO combo since they are forced to use Blue buff to stand still in pvp, So be happy with 2 KO and plus your grab that require no cc

[DT3]

1 hour ago, Valiant said:

BD 100% better than Destroyer DPS, So don't act like your class is the bottom of dps in pve your class;

Infact let's look at something level1 of damage BD=FM=KFM=SF damage out put while Summoner=Assassin a higher leveler than your class while the top ofcourse right now is Warlock= BM

 

Destroyer is the bottom really here and ofcourse you can agree 

 

But Destroyer got no KO combo since they are forced to use Blue buff to stand still in pvp, So be happy with 2 KO and plus your grab that require no cc

FM = BD, KFM, SF??? do you even play this game? 

FM is one of the highest DPS right now over all other classes. Maybe you're just partying with FMs that don't know how to play their class.

 

 

 

 

 

[Valiant]

6 minutes ago, DT3 said:

FM = BD, KFM, SF??? do you even play this game? 

FM is one of the highest DPS right now over all other classes. Maybe you're just partying with FMs that don't know how to play their class.

 

FM isn't one of highest DPs,Warlock and BM out dps in pve at any time you gave it

 

FM damage maybe be a bit above BD, KFM and SF damage but sure it doesn't match warlock and BM wrath  

[Wataru]

I don't know how you're complaining about blade dancer. Their damage is like what...2nd worst in NA? Should be praising it.

[GenericNick]

11 hours ago, Rea Shinwa said:

Not every bd has 8 pc turtle + elemental. That's without mentioning the ping issue that FrozenB pointed at. As a HM 11 bd with 5 turtle pieces and no legendary accesories or weapon, playing on NA from EU, and at 705 ap, I am tired of hearing things  like "dont be a useless rat, kid" in 4-man dungeons due to my dps being lower than BM/Sin/Others even though I grab for them all and HM guard and do a "decent" dps. Aside from me not being a furry, nor "cute", not at all a kid, etc etc. I never insulted anyone for making their chars "human-like" in a game, lol, nor do I complain about any other class' skills. They all have weaknesses and strenghts, so to say. Enjoy the game and the nice company when you find it... rare as it is, it still exists : )

I missed the memo where any online game should be balanced around mediocre-geared people playing on servers across the ocean.

 

As for the dps discussion the truth is that at the moment under fair conditions all the classes are more or less balanced damage-wise, with the flow of the fight being the main factor as for who comes out on top. By that  I mean: fight mechanics, targets mobility, timing of buffs etc. Except for FMs on soulburn, because they're insane, and destroyers, because they suck.

[Said]

http://imgur.com/a/mKuPi

 

More than half-year into nothing.

 

Seriously I am starting to suspect that Korean devs balance game about friends and family requests, not from statistical numbers.

 

There is NO logical explanation for all sins buff throughout all 2016. Except mb someone in game balance department have little son playing sin and he still cant be good enough (its Just my theory, not slander attempt).

Same for warlock, Another class I'd hapily see nerfed into oblivion, because after all its still OP as *****, and getting even more buffs next patch. Someone there have wife/waifu playing wl?

Now about little this little dancers. They already have been overbuffed, but no.... We need more and more. Some devs little sister is playing cute lynn and she needs buffs? How adorable. Not.

 

Where is destro dps normalization? Class has broken core. It needs damn rework, not some lame fixes through items.

Chi-management issues? Nah, noone cares.

QOL changes like double cc (like bd), comfortable grab (like bd), real survivability (like bd), useful utility (like bd hm block), some more passive dot damage (like nearly every class) to be less anicancel dependent?

Nah, we d better buff lynns, they are cute.

Screw this.

 

[Southwind]

1 hour ago, Said said:

not from statistical numbers

Like for example pvp stats? Here you go current EU 1v1 rank, poor destros :(

 

 

[Rea Shinwa]

4 hours ago, GenericNick said:

I missed the memo where any online game should be balanced around mediocre-geared people playing on servers across the ocean.

 

As for the dps discussion the truth is that at the moment under fair conditions all the classes are more or less balanced damage-wise, with the flow of the fight being the main factor as for who comes out on top. By that  I mean: fight mechanics, targets mobility, timing of buffs etc. Except for FMs on soulburn, because they're insane, and destroyers, because they suck.

No memo. No one that I know of tried to convince any online game developer to balance the game play around "mediocre" gear and "transatlantic" players. Certainly not me. We are there, though, against all odds. It would be a very lonely environment if we weren't. Less contempt and some smiles make things more fun, you know.

[DT3]

13 hours ago, Valiant said:

FM isn't one of highest DPs,Warlock and BM out dps in pve at any time you gave it

 

FM damage maybe be a bit above BD, KFM and SF damage but sure it doesn't match warlock and BM wrath  

yea okay, you keep telling yourself that.

http://imgur.com/a/KZucc (and that wasn't even his highest)

[Valiant]

2 hours ago, DT3 said:

yea okay, you keep telling yourself that.

http://imgur.com/a/KZucc (and that wasn't even his highest)

Man I don't care, I play Destroyer and me is useless class that what I care about; Will we ever see the sunlight or nah ?

[UnderJustin]

Another boost for the GD, great. Only left a "1 hit k.o." skill. And for destroyers? Nothing. 

[Valiant]

47 minutes ago, UnderJustin said:

Another boost for the GD, great. Only left a "1 hit k.o." skill. And for destroyers? Nothing. 

They already having 2 KO while Destroyer can't even use fury to KO because they are using blue buff instead, Just fair game and more things to make destroyer useless 

[Zedonia]

6 hours ago, DT3 said:

yea okay, you keep telling yourself that.

http://imgur.com/a/KZucc (and that wasn't even his highest)

Oh pls, dont do such bullshit comparisons. FM has the strongest awakened skill. Then blue buff and a fight what lasted probably not even as long as soulburn. This is real damage, yes, but it's nonsense to compare classes based on that. Compare them without soulburn and over some minutes then you will see that most classes do almost the same damage.

[Skynemis953]

BD needs this PVE buff, FM already OP.

[Zedonia]

16 minutes ago, Skynemis953 said:

BD needs this PVE buff, FM already OP.

FM is not op. Awakened dragonchar might be a bit op but thats all. BM and WL can outdps FM anytime. WL is op for solo content because of soulburn. BM is a brainless class currently with too high damage for that. Sum is also very strong and not really behind FM. Compare what these classes have to do and then look at FM rotations. FM is not op and even if they would be, they suck in PVP so it would only be fair but well, it's not. The BD buff wasnt necessary, BD is pretty strong already.

[Valiant]

And me here is as Destroyer enjoy this talk about who is better at pve and who got more dps, BD or FM

 

While myself as Destroyer just watch that and laugh to my death that me is useless support and useless dps beside them both :')

[Skynemis953]

2 hours ago, Zedonia said:

FM is not op. Awakened dragonchar might be a bit op but thats all. BM and WL can outdps FM anytime. WL is op for solo content because of soulburn. BM is a brainless class currently with too high damage for that. Sum is also very strong and not really behind FM. Compare what these classes have to do and then look at FM rotations. FM is not op and even if they would be, they suck in PVP so it would only be fair but well, it's not. The BD buff wasnt necessary, BD is pretty strong already.

BD pvp is super strong already just like des and is unnecessary buff but their PVE  dps sucks. DES pve is super low dps too but i guess they get the benefit of never being able to die. As for FM, our opinions are 100% opposite forever.

[MushinKFM]

"Des never being able to die" the class with the least iframes and that doesnt even bring party iframes. This is such a useless class for pve (besides the grab which is covered by BD).

"FM dps is strong enough"

Yes FM dps is good as is and BD dps is good as is since BD can also do all CCs + grab for party and HM block being more useful in the end. So it's ok that BD outscale only with elemental. Warlocks also profit from white weap + badge and FMs also profit from elemental same as other classes.

 

PvP:

FM is rly shit in PvP right now, kinda like Des.

Still FM>Des

Des weakness is stalling and Des can only K.O with Blue Buff so most ppl will escape and try to stall till they can find a way to kill des.

FM has 2 Stun escapes so Des is kinda Weak vs FM.

 

So BD is a class known for hit n run since it needs it's skills to come back of CD. If you watch empathy and brother bill you'll know what I mean.

You say BD is crap vs FM? Yeah a BD that doesn't put pressure up and doesn't follow the wait for CDs and run will not go further than gold rank and also die to my FM since I can penetrate Spin. But half the BDs I had can stall a lot, pressure with C and double aircombo + stall for CDs when my Veil is down.

 

Projectile Shields:

FM, Sin, BM, Summ

 

So FM can grab sin and summ out of it.. but what bothers me is that summ has Sunflower (a ranged projectile Skill 2x16 that doesn't count as projectile) and this skill counts to main dps rotation.

 

To summ it up there are 2 classes even a good FM can't win against when at same skillcap=

Summoner and BM.

So what did I miss out? Warlock, yea most of them around silver are easily farmed and take all freeze dmg to the face. Warlock vs FM can be kinda interesting but in the end the match favours the Warlock (which can have insane quadruple aircombo btw).

 

So what's left for a poor FM (kfm main once) like me:

Wins vs:

Bad Summ, mediocre KFMs, mediocre BDs, good Des, mediocre WL, rly Bad BMs, mediocre SF (forgot this one, same as BD very mobile CD stall),mediocre-good FMs.

 

If you rly think this isn't true you'll get a pic of Class ranking comparison it's disgusting.

 

[Valiant]

3 hours ago, MushinKFM said:

 

PvP:

FM is rly shit in PvP right now, kinda like Des.

Still FM>Des

Des weakness is stalling and Des can only K.O with Blue Buff so most ppl will escape and try to stall till they can find a way to kill des.

FM has 2 Stun escapes so Des is kinda Weak vs FM.

 

Well since you bring FM against Destroyer, I will tell you what is going on here as Destroyer myself and just laugh at the people who keep saying that Destroyer can counter FM easily and that is FM is all bad in pvp,
 

Okey I agree FM right now isn't the perfect op class in pve neither pvp, But it 200% better than Destroyer in pve and 100% better than Destroyer in pvp.
 

Let's talk about facts that happen in Destroyer match against FM, First let's say we got a Destroyer who wanna go a fury build (Red Buff) against FM;
You got a class on your right hand, With 3 main Iframes (12,24 and 60 or 45 second CD)  with one escape that work every 36 second , 1 KO skill which is fury that able to 100-0 every 45 second. You got emberstomp which is area of resist against stuns, daze, knockdown and knockback only for 10 second so a knockup or grab will get you out of any second, Beside you got ofcourse a useless shield that block frontal attacks only and if you got HM shield it just ignore defense breaking skills so if you got anything that "ignore defense skills " and it got cc effect it will bring down the shield and ofcourse the spin which require 20 focus to cast and deflect on first 0.5 second only so 5 spins and no focus left for Destroyer.
 

**Ofcourse you could pick blue buff instead of Red Buff to get second escape with 60 second CD!, But that mean no more 100-0 skill

And on your left hand , FM a Class with 2 escape with 36 seconds, 2 Iframe with 16 seconds CD, Projectile protection with 30 second CD, Many Ice effects that either disable charge skills for melee or freeze them completely ,Spamable skill that require no focus and able to counter melee attacks while it got another job as well which is stun any freezed target so if you destroyer grab them and that destroyer got freezed effect he will get stunned by that skill -,-, 10 second Freeze immune prison on themselves that heal instantly  with 60 second CD , 30 second CD freeze effect that if they got hit during they go immune prison  for 4 seconds,Skills that disable spin effect for 5 second with 30 second CD,  And finally beside all of that they got 100-0 in their pocket without need to put anything to side like Destroyer.
(I did forget they got a short CD grab that require no CC, So yah grab destroyer out of anything like emberstomp,"I wonder still who the did design such useless skill that work only on ground while myself can't just bypass frozen prison they got on themself,Sigh)


So tell me here who on this earth would lose with FM with all of this ability against Destroyer ? Infact there times where myself as Destroyer vs FM I did reach to moment where I got no focus left,freezed down, Shield on CD, open for death and all I got to use was my LMB (I did feel like I'm not HM12 class more than a level 10 class that got only skill to regain focus by), Cause every skill destroyer have require focus even the 45/60 and 24 Iframe -,-
While FM never ever will go for that corner of find themself not able to do anything, Infact no class reach that moment where they got nothing to do except 2 skills just 2 skills to use.
 

Like if ever that happen and FM/BM/BD/etc class go to the corner of having no focus or skills left to cast, They will find either block or Iframe or counter or anything to cast while Destroyer and that say if he didn't use his SS or shield will find a shield with big CD or SS Iframe that got 12 second left to cast.

Poor FM really , Really I wonder how they lose against Destroyer