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Shadovvv

KR Force Master Changes

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Shadovvv   

http://bnstree.com/skill/FM

 

http://pastebin.com/jNMMfec6

 

TL;DR:

  • Simplified Flame/Frost Orbits (everything grants Orbits on critical hit Flame/Frost skills instead of procing Flame/Frost Fury, max orbits reduced to 1)
  • ~~Removed Global Cooldown~~ - was only a thing in Test Server.
  • HM Dragonchar recovers focus on crit, but damage nerfed
  • Buffed Blazing Beam
  • Buffed Ice Rain and Awakened Ice Rain
  • Awakened Daze Dragonchar/Blazing Beam gone; defaults to Awakened Dragonchar/Ice Rain
  • 10x damage increase to Cold Snap
  • Separated Fire Storm and Heatwave and moved the latter to Z (replacing Wildfire/Ring of Fire)
  • Double Daze gone; now only 1x Dragonchar/Dragonwhorl Daze
  • Nerfed Frost Armor healing (again)
  • Reverted Phantom Grip cooldown nerf (36 sec -> 24 sec)
  • Merged Snowball Block Break w/ Frost Tornado Offense-Defense Cancel
  • FROST BUILD GOT DAMAGE BUFFS
Edited by Shadovvv

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Zerecas   

No wonder they say FM is so underwhelmed in PvP *as if it isn't now* of the new class system at the moment.

 

Like seriously, the current weakened Frost Armor is amounted to 5% HP recovery, to what extent did they reduced it to? 1% HP recovery?

Did the class get a HP boost update or something to offset this nerf?

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Half   
Quote

 

Frost Armor (Tab):

    Stage 1/Type 1 (Lifesteal):
        Removed effect: Heals the user 1% of their health on resist
        Removed effect: Heals the user 10% of their health over 10 sec
        Removed effect: Inflicts 5 meter knockback on cancelling skill
    Stage 2/Type 2 (Freeze):
        Removed effect: Heals the user 1% of their health on resist

        Removed effect: Heals the user 10% of their health over 10 sec

 

 

I hate the new skillsystem in KR and changes in pve seams they're making frost to most powerful specc. Also they nerfed some things like double daze, tab heal and 2nd wind. Anyway we got back our important 24s cd on phantom grip (idk why they made 36s in past).

 

All in one I can say as pve frost FM *yay op FM buffed*, but I hate the new skillsystem and will leave bns befor it will be released in eu/na. With so many changes (other classes too!) I can't say anything about balancing in pvp.

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simax   

They removed Blazing beam(2) so without warlock RIP. That forces me to switch to Ice build which is also bad at boss fight where you must move a lot(Yea, chose a FM and not WL becose of the moving and healing ability and now they are both gone).

Now they are removing Stage 2 Divine Veil(C) which I used 90% of time in 1v1 and most of time in pve as well, not even mentioning the Stage 1 was supposed to heal party members alike summoners one since begginig of NA/EU servers, guess we wont have that any ever.

The best of all is they reduced amount of orbs, both fire and ice, what means no more chill  from received attack.

So basically FM are becoming a total trash in 1v1 regardless of playing skills.

And to comment the ultimate skills...just lol. The damage one with no more damage than other classes + no additional buffes, also that additional damage on airborne is just nonsense for FM. The other skill is even more stupid...creates orbit and chill per hit...like is there any place in BnS where this can find usefull??? (Since it wont have any effect on bosses)

(Srry for English)

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Zedonia   
Flame Palm (LMB):

    Stage 1 (Auto Detonate) removed. -> finally

 

Frost Palm (RMB):

    Hongmoon Skill placeholder removed -> there goes the hopes of save chill in pvp

 

Dragonblaze (F):

Cooldown: 0 sec -> 12 sec -> that's not good because it makes the msp flower badge almost useless, well, we have to see when we get what

 

The orb changes are good after all. Now you dont have to watch out for them and just use blaze/frost and dual dragons when they are ready.

 

Impact (1):

Stage 3/Type 3 Flame (Combo):

Max speed Dragonchar available on detonating 5 stacks of ember -> that's really good and absolutely needed to make it usefull

 

New fire build rotation not mentioning meteor and inferno will be most likely: (C) -> 1 -> 22222222222 -> 1 -> 2222222222 -> etc. At least with high crit rate.

 

Phantom Grip (4):

    Stage 4 (Shadow Grasp one-time pull) removed -> bullshit, no idea why they had to do that

 

Wildfire (Z):

Type 2 (Launch Heatwave) added:

Launches enemies inflicted by stun, daze, knockdown into the air -> seems that double air combo will be easier but shouldnt make a big difference

 

Divine Veil (C):

Stage 2 (Mobile Veil) removed -> that's also bullshit

12 minutes ago, simax said:

They removed Blazing beam(2) so without warlock RIP.

Beam wasnt removed. It was buffed in damage. Only awakened beam was removed but with WL we use dragonchar anyway. I'm not sure if beam will be better than dragonchar because of the changes I mentioned above. Maybe fire FM will use dragonchar all the time.

 

Ice FM seems to be very strong with that changes. I still dont like it.

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simax   
8 minutes ago, Zedonia said:
 

Beam wasnt removed. It was buffed in damage. Only awakened beam was removed but with WL we use dragonchar anyway. I'm not sure if beam will be better than dragonchar because of the changes I mentioned above. Maybe fire FM will use dragonchar all the time.

 

You are right Beam stays, however dragonchar might be better in dps wise, but for comfortable playing I would choose Blazing beam since dragonchar costs 3 focus and I assume the damage difference wont be that big.

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Zedonia   
16 minutes ago, simax said:

You are right Beam stays, however dragonchar might be better in dps wise, but for comfortable playing I would choose Blazing beam since dragonchar costs 3 focus and I assume the damage difference wont be that big.

Yeah, you might be right. Beam does 2x the damage of dragonchar and if you dont have insane luck with crits and weapon proc you can't spam dragonchar very long. Beam will win in the end unless you got a WL in the group. I'm not even sure if ice build will become better. The souls will be removed so cold snap can't be used 3 times anymore?

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Half   

First of all I'm pretty sure you can use awakend dragonchar with every fire build (doesn't care if [2] is blazing beam or dragonchar).

 

Then I checked skilltree of frost specc and there's a very very very big change to our build on EU/NA. Cold snap has 36s cd and the time of effect is increased from 5s to 10s. Additional you will have better soul badges then now and actually you can decrease cd of cold snap by 9s plus dragon frost will decrease it by 3s. So even with our soul badge it would have a downtime about 14s while uptime is 10s. It's more uptime then in EU/NA. Additional the better soul badges will decrease the downtime even more. Btw it isn't called ice rain anymore, it's called glacial beam. Also cold snap just reduce cast speed (do not increase dmg by itself anymore) and reduce focus costs by 1 or 2 (glacial beam costs 2 focus) and cold snap got 25.00 dmg multiplier (~17,5k with 700 AP).

 

After I checked the new skilltree, seams frost will be boring in future. So another reason to stop bns with this patch.

 

Edit:

Awakened glacial beam and awakened dragonchar will have both same damage. Awakened glacial beam don't need cold snap anymore and pierces deflect (gg pvp). Dragonchar and awakened dragonchar got 16m range, but damage of (normal) dragonchar is around 50% of blazing beam.

 

2nd edit:

After I was looking more for these skills I think frost makes similar dmg to fire and not more. Frost will get a new rota for "non burst phase" which means glacial beams will be used between mouse buttons and it get no additional damage like blazing beam with burning enemy. But glacial beams will make alot more damage while burst. Anyway, 10s cold snap is worse for a boss with much movement (so a very big nerf to now).

Edited by Half

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I don't understand why this is a bad thing? All i see in pve is an upgrade in damage and use for all skills.

 

As for pvp the ice rain and cold snap combo seems really strong now

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simax   
15 hours ago, sephy Kun said:

I don't understand why this is a bad thing? All i see in pve is an upgrade in damage and use for all skills.

 

As for pvp the ice rain and cold snap combo seems really strong now

How do you see ice rain strong in pvp???

The casting time takes long+you cant move, so in most cases the enemy will easilly cc you and if you use cold snap for max boost then most classes will block it and the rest will use immune skill.

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Zedonia   
4 hours ago, simax said:

The casting time takes long+you cant move, so in most cases the enemy will easilly cc you and if you use cold snap for max boost then most classes will block it and the rest will use immune skill.

You can move during ice rain but you are right with the rest. It might be not bad in 6v6 but 1v1 wont work very well.

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Half   

Awakened ice rain penetrades deflect, that's new. Also it makes highest dmg without cold snap, cold snap makes global cd lower. But at least you have only one cold snap, so it's a nerf at all. Ice rain is very strong by now in pvp (if you know how to use it correctly). But it's power is on the same time it's weakness. You can start to cast it and you know it needs 2s time to make some damage. So you can start a short double burst phase while ice rain + normal rota hits on the same time. But if you have (for exsample) a fm against you and they're using there shield, you can stop dmg instantly, but your ice rain attacks fm for 2s, which heals a huge amount of hp of your opponent. Also you can't stop against destroyer and you get so much deflect, that's not nice. But on the other hand, even if you get stunned, deflected or anything else, ice rain hits while you're catched in cc. So all in one I can say that ice rain is very useful in pvp if you have the knowhow about using it. But in KR they nerfed cold snap (can be used only 1 time), so at all it's weaker there. Anyway, it's not always the best choice to take it even now (depends of your opponent).

 

Btw you can move while ice rain and it has no cast time ... lol. Now I know you have no idea about this spell.

Edited by Half

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13 hours ago, simax said:

How do you see ice rain strong in pvp???

The casting time takes long+you cant move, so in most cases the enemy will easilly cc you and if you use cold snap for max boost then most classes will block it and the rest will use immune skill.

Didn't they remove the casting time of ice rain? I thought they did...i'll put a video about it at the end of this post

If that's the case then for example you can use it with cold snap to kill WL thrall in like 2 seconds or use it with an air combo, i'm sure that would do massive damage in a short amount of time. It is useful in some cases. Although the frost version of dragon char is much better still (KB+daze+freeze at the end).

Moving on from that they removed global cooldown so this just gives birth to all sorts of combos  that we couldn't do before. And it really makes playing the class alot smoother.

They also buffed the damage on our impact (they merged stage 1 and 2 into one, i've seen a video of a guy in japanese servers getting hit for like 8k on impact alone, hell i've seen him get 100-0 combo'd by a force master)

I still don't see why this is a downgrade

 

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Half   
54 minutes ago, sephy Kun said:

Didn't they remove the casting time of ice rain?

Ok I understand what you mean. You're half correct. At first it never had a casting time. You push on the button and can run away. Check bnstree for that. But: Here in EU at current version you push the button and have to wait 2s (you also can wait or cast something else in this time) befor it hits your target. At the current KR version it hits instantly after pushing a button. That's what you thought about casting time ... it's no casting time, it's between casting and hit. A huge difference! Also I see ice rain has in KR 3m aoe while here we have only 0,1m aoe (in tooltip area=target, but in fact you can hit multiple targets if they stay exactly at one place).

54 minutes ago, sephy Kun said:

use it with an air combo

Here in EU cold snap doesn't effect targets in airbone. That means the extra damage by ice rain on cold snap doesn't work while your ice rain target is in the air. Idk how it is in KR by now.

55 minutes ago, sephy Kun said:

If that's the case then for example you can use it with cold snap to kill WL thrall in like 2 seconds

Here in EU I was fighting another fm who was pissed of because I killed him one time, so he wanted a duel against me in mushins hall. I let him waste all his resist skills (V, C and Tab) and deffed myself more intelligent. Then I started ice rain and after 2s I started my normal rotation. He died in 1 or 2s aswell. Ofc it was pve gear, but want to say it makes also in EU very high dmg (i had no single legendary equipment). He was like "wtf" and couldn't say anything else. With pvp gear or in arena it makes less dmg, but don't underestimate it.

1 hour ago, sephy Kun said:

They also buffed the damage on our impact (they merged stage 1 and 2 into one,

Nope, they're mostly exact the same like befor. They added hongmoon energie to stage one. Check bnstree for that.

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On 07/01/2017 at 3:51 AM, Half said:

Ok I understand what you mean. You're half correct. At first it never had a casting time. You push on the button and can run away. Check bnstree for that. But: Here in EU at current version you push the button and have to wait 2s (you also can wait or cast something else in this time) befor it hits your target. At the current KR version it hits instantly after pushing a button. That's what you thought about casting time ... it's no casting time, it's between casting and hit. A huge difference! Also I see ice rain has in KR 3m aoe while here we have only 0,1m aoe (in tooltip area=target, but in fact you can hit multiple targets if they stay exactly at one place).

Here in EU cold snap doesn't effect targets in airbone. That means the extra damage by ice rain on cold snap doesn't work while your ice rain target is in the air. Idk how it is in KR by now.

Here in EU I was fighting another fm who was pissed of because I killed him one time, so he wanted a duel against me in mushins hall. I let him waste all his resist skills (V, C and Tab) and deffed myself more intelligent. Then I started ice rain and after 2s I started my normal rotation. He died in 1 or 2s aswell. Ofc it was pve gear, but want to say it makes also in EU very high dmg (i had no single legendary equipment). He was like "wtf" and couldn't say anything else. With pvp gear or in arena it makes less dmg, but don't underestimate it.

Nope, they're mostly exact the same like befor. They added hongmoon energie to stage one. Check bnstree for that.

I wasn't talking about the eu/na versions i was talking about the new skills in KR and how they can be potentially used, which by all means Most of them are upgrades (except for the heals). Specially how they made it easier to use some skills (like ice rain and dual dragons). 

 

There aren't many FMs in the top 100 probably because they buffed other classes way too much, which will hopefully be balanced out soon.

And you're right about impact

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Calcinha   

Defense disable each 15 seconds  !!!

Great, finnaly i have chance agains Blade Master, Blade Cancer and Destroyer.

 

Great buff !!

cooddown 30 seconds can be reduced to 15.

and is for both spin/defense

 

or 9 seconds cooldown if u do the thing right.

 

 

Removed Coldown GLobal ?

wait wait i gonna spam everything ?

Edited by Calcinha

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Zedonia   
30 minutes ago, Calcinha said:

Removed Coldown GLobal ?

wait wait i gonna spam everything ?

It's nice to have but wont change very much.

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Zedonia   
On 6.1.2017 at 5:24 PM, Half said:

But in KR they nerfed cold snap (can be used only 1 time), so at all it's weaker there.

After checking the upcoming badges it might be good with the right gear for it. Cold snap will have 36s cd and last for 10s. With the current available badge you can reduce the cd by 9s. The next tower badge will reduce the cd by 0,5s for every ice rain. Depending on ping this will be some seconds (no idea how often you can use ice rain within 10s). These badges can be merged later so we can have both. The additional one is from msp. Then dual dragons will reduce the cd by 8s. So we will have 36s -10s (the usage time) - 9s - 8s = 9s cd rest. So if you can use ice rain 18 times during cold snap it wont have any cd after using snowball and dual dragons. And even if it will have some seconds left, you can use short fuse + meteor + inferno between what is not wrong anyway because of getting the fire orb. Because of the orb changes we will only need 1 crit with LMB or inferno or meteor to use dual dragons (ice orb should come from ice rain anyway). So it should be possible to spam coldsnap/ice rain almost 100% of the time, right? If that will be possible, ice build might become fun.

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I have a question regarding pvp and the ice orbs. Right now I proc 3 ice orbs when I get my first F ice proc.

 

The 3 ice orbs can be crucial for self defense against meeles. How will kr manage the 3 ice orb debuff that ices enemy who hit you? Are they gonna merge it?

 

If they merge it and buff fm pvp I'm glad but if the make a crib out of fm I am either going back to kfm or quit game.

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On 4.01.2017 at 11:19 AM, Shadovvv said:

http://bnstree.com/skill/FM

 

http://pastebin.com/jNMMfec6

 

TL;DR:

  • Simplified Flame/Frost Orbits (everything grants Orbits on critical hit Flame/Frost skills instead of procing Flame/Frost Fury, max orbits reduced to 1)
  • Removed Global Cooldown
  • HM Dragonchar recovers focus on crit, but damage nerfed (offset with global cd removal)
  • Buffed Blazing Beam
  • Buffed Ice Rain and Awakened Ice Rain
  • Awakened Daze Dragonchar/Blazing Beam gone; defaults to Awakened Dragonchar/Ice Rain
  • 10x damage increase to Cold Snap
  • Separated Fire Storm and Heatwave and moved the latter to Z (replacing Wildfire/Ring of Fire)
  • Double Daze gone; now only 1x Dragonchar/Dragonwhorl Daze
  • Nerfed Frost Armor healing (again)
  • Reverted Phantom Grip cooldown nerf (36 sec -> 24 sec)
  • Merged Snowball Block Break w/ Frost Tornado Offense-Defense Cancel
  • FROST BUILD GOT DAMAGE BUFFS

+ according to KR skilltree, blazing wall and meteor shower are now somehow separate skills, so you can use blazing wall durring phantom grip, and meteor shower outside phantom grip. They have different cd (30s and 45s) but idk if the cd isn't shared in some way.

 

It allows to deal dmg durring phantom grip instead of just running around and wall throw at the end. Plus idk if phantom gripped enemy is affected by cold snap dmg? Someone can confirm? If it is, cold snap>phantom grip>blazing wall would be a massive combo with new 10 times higher cold snap dmg, even higher if target will have 5 embers due to blazing wall buff.

 

Daze dragonwhorl is nice too, it doesn't have buffed dmg on burning enemys as daze dragonchair, but hey! It has instant, no cd, piercing defence/deflect (if HM) 5s freeze! So easy way to deal stun with impact after it. 

 

Double aerial combo will consume 2 more focus, cause aerial phantom grip can't be speced to 0 focus, but it has 30s cd and defence block by default which is nice. Also we will need one additional click, cause second launch has to be detonated, (now we can start just dpsing after bolt bash, as ring of fire is detonating by itself), but it will be easier to time it correct. 

 

Ice tab heal nerf is sad, esspecially if we realize FM is at the bottom in pvp right now, but i think balancing this class by making it more offensive, giving higher burst and easier cc's is more important than healing. 

 

Overall changes are nice, at least in theory, compared to current versions, most of skills has their best specs by default or with HM. FMs will need to learn PvP and PvE playstyle once again, but it has potential imho.

 

But as we know NCSoft, other class will for sure be boosted to the sky, and we will stay at the bottom in terms of balance : )

 

Best Regards to all F̶o̶r̶c̶e̶ Nerf Masters!

Edited by Southwind

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On 4.01.2017 at 3:35 PM, Half said:

 

First of all I'm pretty sure you can use awakend dragonchar with every fire build (doesn't care if [2] is blazing beam or dragonchar).

 

It's true, and it is VERY GOOD change, cause we can just spec blazing beam for high dmg outside sb, and it will change for awakaned dragonchar right after soulburn. Awakaned dragonchar seems to be constant regardless of normal 2 specs, there is now cast speed acceleration in it but speed looks fine, maybe it is affected by HM type 3 impact, which provide max speed dragonchar after detonating 5 embers.  We will see.

 

 

 

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Half   

 

On 8.1.2017 at 5:38 PM, sephy Kun said:

I wasn't talking about the eu/na versions i was talking about the new skills in KR and how they can be potentially used, which by all means Most of them are upgrades (except for the heals). Specially how they made it easier to use some skills (like ice rain and dual dragons). 

 

There aren't many FMs in the top 100 probably because they buffed other classes way too much, which will hopefully be balanced out soon.

And you're right about impact

And I was talking about changes from EU to KR. I don't see so many buffs for ice rain. Ok it does 3m aoe and awakened it can pen deflect, but that's all what they have buffed. Rest are only changes or nerfs, no buffs. Cold Snap got a nerf, because you can use it only once with 10s duration (enemies can go out so easy compaired to 3 times cold snap). Ice rain don't need to wait 2s befor it hits enemies. That make it easier to use without any risk, but compared to EU you can't use it so tactically anymore.

On 8.1.2017 at 8:27 PM, Zedonia said:

So it should be possible to spam coldsnap/ice rain almost 100% of the time, right? If that will be possible, ice build might become fun.

That's not fun, that's lame if you ask me as current frost fm. The funny thing with frost is, that there's no 100% burst time. With soul badge I have 41% burst time atm and more then 50% would be too much. One important reason why I prefer frost is the gameplay between burst and low damage. Only burst would just destroy frost specc. Also I love it to use 3 times cold snap (more flexibility) and I love that ice rain needs 2s befor it hits the target (needs better control = more fun). All these changes in KR make frost easier to play, less flexible and just boring (and if you failed your cold snap, your whole burst phase is wasted).

On 8.1.2017 at 8:27 PM, Zedonia said:

The next tower badge will reduce the cd by 0,5s for every ice rain. Depending on ping this will be some seconds (no idea how often you can use ice rain within 10s)

Ice rain can hit 3-4 times per second. So in 10s you can reduce cd of cold snap by 15s or more. But every fail reduce your cd reduce much. Special in KR version if boss jumps out of cold snap you will loose your whole bonus of this soul badge.

 

All in one I can say, as long as your boss stays the whole fight at one place, frost fm should be the new meta in KR. But a movement boss like yeti or zakhan decrease the damage so much, that you can only play burning fm if you want to do great damage.

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