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7 minutes ago, FrozenB said:

Then, can you tell me what are the other ways for the company to keep the game alive without milking the whales? At least I don't know they have other source of income from this game since this is f2p.

 

Actually, whales are the ones who spend moderately through consistently as well, not casual players. However, when something rare or good item on sales in HM store, they often spend big as well. Casual players don't need to spend money in game because you can just buy HM coins with golds in game. Maybe they just buy premium once in a while and that's it.

 

I think there are 3 different type of people in the game:

1) Whales = spend big trunk of money in game to get top gear in game ASAP and then only spend big money in game if something good on sales in HM store or in event like TROVE to buy tons of keys every day

2) Moderates = spend some money (less than a hundred) if something good on sales and buy premium regularly. Still, they have to spend lots of time to gear up in game.

3) Casual = Never spend any money in game (aka no premium at all) and only can buy stuff in HM store with exchanging in-game gold with hm coins. They get everything by grinding and camping bosses.

 

 

I think the problem here is that you, like many others dont quite comprehend just what a whale is. 

 

The term "whale" originated in gambling houses throughout the world, such as Las Vegas casinos, Hong Kong gambling houses, etc. It describes an individual, or groups of individuals whom wager an inordinately exorbitant amount on gambling. Also known as "high rollers". 

 

By its very definition a whale is not casual. They dont spend large once in a while, they spend big ALL THE TIME. A whale spends impulsively, often times recklessly. And is treated very highly by the very organizations it spends on, for the sole purpose of "milking".

 

Your definition of a casual is also somewhat mistaken. Theres no such thing as "moderates" in todays gaming. There are only whales, (big spenders), and casuals, (everyone else). Period. Most players diss casuals, not realizing they themselves belong to this group.

 

Casuals sustain MMO's specifically. When casuals leave, the game rots. Oftens times what remains are said whales, and newbies just starting out. Which often leads to gaping chasms developing between the haves and have nots within gaming communities. Eventually leading to what remains of the casual base disappearing entirely leaving only whales to continue feeding the game until its in evitable closure.

 

NCSoft capitalizes on this like no other MMO gaming developer. Lineage, Aion, Wildstar, BnS. All start of well, then quickly loses its casual base due to dev decisions leaning towards heavy RnG based RL cash transactions. Leaving only the big spenders around to feed the trove. 

 

Eventually they tire of epeening amongst themselves, stop feeding the pig, the game dies.

 

Never fails.

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Now first and for most, you should listen to yourself as well.  The people who are complaining about this being a p2w and saying they have to pay bills. . .why are you complaining since you should kno

Don't burn out yourself in the first day by buying tons of boxes, unless you're that rich in gold or USD.   Try to buy 1-2 boxes per day, or more, as long as you feel comfortable with it. An

People will always buy whatever shit is fed to them, so long as they keep buying it. Its perpetual. Same shit with intel for example, they offer tiny increments in overall performance with new proc

42 minutes ago, Mortal Kombat said:

I think the problem here is that you, like many others dont quite comprehend just what a whale is. 

 

The term "whale" originated in gambling houses throughout the world, such as Las Vegas casinos, Hong Kong gambling houses, etc. It describes an individual, or groups of individuals whom wager an inordinately exorbitant amount on gambling. Also known as "high rollers". 

 

By its very definition a whale is not casual. They dont spend large once in a while, they spend big ALL THE TIME. A whale spends impulsively, often times recklessly. And is treated very highly by the very organizations it spends on, for the sole purpose of "milking".

 

Your definition of a casual is also somewhat mistaken. Theres no such thing as "moderates" in todays gaming. There are only whales, (big spenders), and casuals, (everyone else). Period. Most players diss casuals, not realizing they themselves belong to this group.

 

Casuals sustain MMO's specifically. When casuals leave, the game rots. Oftens times what remains are said whales, and newbies just starting out. Which often leads to gaping chasms developing between the haves and have nots within gaming communities. Eventually leading to what remains of the casual base disappearing entirely leaving only whales to continue feeding the game until its in evitable closure.

 

NCSoft capitalizes on this like no other MMO gaming developer. Lineage, Aion, Wildstar, BnS. All start of well, then quickly loses its casual base due to dev decisions leaning towards heavy RnG based RL cash transactions. Leaving only the big spenders around to feed the trove. 

 

Eventually they tire of epeening amongst themselves, stop feeding the pig, the game dies.

 

Never fails.

Well...then, based on your definition, there are technically no whales in this game because people paid large amount of money until they got top gear. Then, they stopped paying large amount of money until new content or gear available in game. Since they don't spend large money all the time, then they are not considered as whales by your definition. Agree?

 

Also, we are not trying to find the original definition of the word "whales". It is different from gambling field, but I believe online gamers borrowed the word for online gaming. In online gaming, whales often refer to people who used big load of cash to gear their character in as short amount of time as possible, which also means that they can minimize the time grinding in the game in order to reach the top of the game. If there are nothing to spend in HM store, do they even need to pay big load of cash for this game? The good RNG boxes often show up once in a while (not always). Maybe they spend on costumes? But they only costs like 20-25 bucks per week. That's very little.

 

Also, how do you call the players who didn't spend any money on this game (not even have premium)? How do you distinguish them from casual players?

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The term "whales" is clearly subjective because no one knows how much others spend stuff to a game. Let's stick to the RNG topic, instead.

 

These events are very well expected tbh. I say if you're getting the worse drops then that's where you must stop buying it then try something else.

If you will also notice the currency exchange also dropped from 1:9 because there are lots of F2P players who want to take advantage of this. At the same time, those players who are willing to spend take this opportunity to buy more gold and upgrade gear. Both sides still get the same relative amount of benefits from these events unless people don't oversee these from happening and get salty asap.

Edited by xxxAoi
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7 hours ago, FrozenB said:

Then, can you tell me what are the other ways for the company to keep the game alive without milking the whales? At least I don't know they have other source of income from this game since this is f2p.

Definitely not by killing their own playerbase.

 

8 hours ago, FrozenB said:

3) Casual = Never spend any money in game (aka no premium at all) and only can buy stuff in HM store with exchanging in-game gold with hm coins. They get everything by grinding and camping bosses.

Casuals dont grind and camp. Casual is who log in and play like 30min... for 2-3 times per week. Hardcore and semi-hardcore players are who grind and camp.

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9 hours ago, Mortal Kombat said:

NCSoft capitalizes on this like no other MMO gaming developer. Lineage, Aion, Wildstar, BnS. All start of well, then quickly loses its casual base due to dev decisions leaning towards heavy RnG based RL cash transactions. Leaving only the big spenders around to feed the trove. 

 

Eventually they tire of epeening amongst themselves, stop feeding the pig, the game dies.

this, and also make great gear differencies between them, and advantage those on top as much as possible, so whales feel real good

for the rest of plebs just "we lowered accesory upgrade prices" joke - cause too late, cause with so broken market it is about same grind as in past, etc

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20 hours ago, FrozenB said:

Well...I don't care about whales in game because....

 

whales = keep game alive by spending money

free players = keep the population alive by involving in game

 

They are dependent on each other. Whales need someone to play/bully with or against in game or else they just play among themselves or with same people every day.

Free players need some rich guys to pay the company to keep the game ongoing or else they have nothing to play.

 

So, they should thanks to each other.

Of course. But there's a catch. You can scare off F2P players with your stupid/greedy business model (leftovers are only whales). BnS is not a F2P game anymore thanks to grind and current business model. If you want to be relevant in the end game, you need to ready up your wallet and start paying.

If you want to get to the end game as F2P you need to run lots of alts and play every day. That's the only way if you refuse to spend any real money on this game.

I'm a F2P player myself but the difference is that I don't run alts. And progression starts to get really slow once you get past 500+ AP. All of my gear progression  gold went to winter packs and now that they released RNG boxes again, I feel like I'm being ignored or just lead to the doorway by NCSoft. That's how I feel. And that's how they start losing players, F2P players. 

Soon this game will only consists of whales, I can assure you that.

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12 minutes ago, Jurisz said:

Of course. But there's a catch. You can scare off F2P players with your stupid/greedy business model (leftovers are only whales). BnS is not a F2P game anymore thanks to grind and current business model. If you want to be relevant in the end game, you need to ready up your wallet and start paying.

If you want to get to the end game as F2P you need to run lots of alts and play every day. That's the only way if you refuse to spend any real money on this game.

I'm a F2P player myself but the difference is that I don't run alts. And progression starts to get really slow once you get past 500+ AP. All of my gear progression  gold went to winter packs and now that they released RNG boxes again, I feel like I'm being ignored or just lead to the doorway by NCSoft. That's how I feel. And that's how they start losing players, F2P players. 

Soon this game will only consists of whales, I can assure you that.

I am F2P player too and I started to play since July, which was a bit late to start too, compared to other people. However, I already catch up with the highbies in the clan who started in last January. Although I still can't compare with the whales, but it is sufficient for me to run all the dungeons and get into any parties in F8 with 740AP.

 

I play like 3-4 hours on weekday because i have a full time job. Maybe I play a little bit more on weekend depend on my schedule, but that's it. It was lucky for me that they had started to reduce the materials needed to upgrade the Hongmoon accessories and weapons while I was lowbie. So, it speeded up my catch-up alot. Plus, now they reduce the materials needed to upgrade legendary weapon as well (although I upgraded mine before they announced the reduction costs). I don't think it is hard for new player to catch up. Remember that they give out alot of free items in the surveys as well, in which I only had 50% of the free items as now when i was leveling my character.

 

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3 hours ago, Jurisz said:

Of course. But there's a catch. You can scare off F2P players with your stupid/greedy business model (leftovers are only whales). BnS is not a F2P game anymore thanks to grind and current business model. If you want to be relevant in the end game, you need to ready up your wallet and start paying.

If you want to get to the end game as F2P you need to run lots of alts and play every day. That's the only way if you refuse to spend any real money on this game.

I'm a F2P player myself but the difference is that I don't run alts. And progression starts to get really slow once you get past 500+ AP. All of my gear progression  gold went to winter packs and now that they released RNG boxes again, I feel like I'm being ignored or just lead to the doorway by NCSoft. That's how I feel. And that's how they start losing players, F2P players. 

Soon this game will only consists of whales, I can assure you that.

Actually the changes of late are more likely to scare away "casual" spenders who get one or two 50bux ncoin sets every other month or so to get few gems from the trove. 

 

Until now, spending say about half of a 50bux monthly gaming budget on B&S and playing 10-20 hours a week would land you quite near the whales, with your baleful 3 and sparkling gems being just a smidgeon away from a full whale baleful 6 & heptagonal set. 

 

But with the true hongmoon soul and this loot box, you might as well be f2p player... the main chunks of the upgrade is just too many dollars or time away.

 

... thats what i will probably do, just 100% f2p until i have some confidence again that they wont increase the p2w levels any further, or another game with combat as good as B&S gets released.

Edited by Myrobots
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Let me try to understand

 

1- If I can not or do not want to spend money, nobody should do it
2- If I do not buy Ncoins, no one should do it


Is this correct for those who are complaining about "whales"?

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1 hour ago, Ilka said:

Let me try to understand

 

1- If I can not or do not want to spend money, nobody should do it
2- If I do not buy Ncoins, no one should do it


Is this correct for those who are complaining about "whales"?

No no, by all means spend. My particular point...is that should you do so, dont then go around acting high and mighty about spending $500 + on a magical pixel box in a video game.

 

Cause where I come from you dont get to laugh @ others in that instance, you're laughed at.

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7 minutes ago, Mortal Kombat said:

No no, by all means spend. My particular point...is that should you do so, dont then go around acting high and mighty about spending $500 + on a magical pixel box in a video game.

 

Cause where I come from you dont get to laugh @ others in that instance, you're laughed at.

oh man youre friends didnt had many hobbies right?
Otherwise they never would laugh about someone who spend 500$ on his hobby.

but go on and spend 500$ on your model railway. That is sooooo much better.....

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25 minutes ago, RainbowDashie said:

but go on and spend 500$ on your model railway. That is sooooo much better.....

@Offtopic:

 

I think they rather spend lots of money for new and expensive cars/smartphones/clothes/etc (as status symbol). Otherwise they wouldnt laugh at someone who cash in virtual games.

Edited by Raizou
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1 hour ago, RainbowDashie said:

oh man youre friends didnt had many hobbies right?
Otherwise they never would laugh about someone who spend 500$ on his hobby.

but go on and spend 500$ on your model railway. That is sooooo much better.....

No, I rather spend $500 on food, clothing, essentials, necessities. I have to pay rent or I'll find myself on the street. I have to buy food otherwise Ill starve. I dont get to spend half a thousand dollars on entertainment just cause. I have an actual job, (sorry neck beards, BnS does not qualify as a job.) I have to earn every cent that goes into my back account, and it isnt withdrawn on a whim. It does not come from mommys purse, it does not come from abusing welfare, it does not come from milking workers comp while you sit home playing video games 24/7. Perhaps thats why I have a greater appreciation for money? Maybe.

 

 (Of course, its always easier throwing someone elses money away on nothing, than it is ones own, amirite?)

 

Now, if budget allows sure I'll invest in entertainment, but even then within reason. New TV if need be. A few games perhaps. Or maybe Il just go to a ballgame with friends, and maybe bar hop after. Point is...tangible things...money spent on things I can actually TOUCH. 

 

You cant TOUCH pixels. If NCSoft shut down BnS' servers, where would your pixel purchase go, hmm? Thats right nowehere cause guess what, that $500 you just spent trying to get a costume for your pretty virtual dolly bought you NOTHING. An imaginary costume, for your imaginary dolly. 

 

Heh, Im beginning to understand why you WK whales get so upset when people scoff at your expenses on games like this. Cant imagine how Id feel after throwing away $1000s on pixels.

 

kek.

Edited by Mortal Kombat
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1 hour ago, Mortal Kombat said:

Heh, Im beginning to understand why you WK whales get so upset when people scoff at your expenses on games like this. Cant imagine how Id feel after throwing away $1000s on pixels.

I dont think the real whales are upset. I met a lot of whales in other games. One was an IT dude with 25000$ / month salary, he spent on game 3000-5000$ / month. The other dude was a pump station owner, he had like 18000€ / month income. His spending was 2000€ / month. Its a pocket money for them. But as i said, whales are not problem. The game design (timewalls) are the problem.

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3 hours ago, KzE said:

I dont think the real whales are upset. I met a lot of whales in other games. One was an IT dude with 25000$ / month salary, he spent on game 3000-5000$ / month. The other dude was a pump station owner, he had like 18000€ / month income. His spending was 2000€ / month. Its a pocket money for them. But as i said, whales are not problem. The game design (timewalls) are the problem.

well whales are a problem because when game is bad for majority, they can upkeep ncsoft wages. as long as incomes are acceptable they wont do anything to fix the game.

 

64bit client is already stated that won't wolve everything. meanwhile a reflex game as bns lag and fps spike. as i stated sometimes, i hope the game is worth whales and dedicated users's money.

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2 hours ago, Shukran said:

well whales are a problem because when game is bad for majority, they can upkeep ncsoft wages. as long as incomes are acceptable they wont do anything to fix the game.

Even if whales quit, they wont fix it. They will sell the publishing rights to a super p2w company.

 

2 hours ago, Shukran said:

64bit client is already stated that won't wolve everything. meanwhile a reflex game as bns lag and fps spike. as i stated sometimes, i hope the game is worth whales and dedicated users's money.

To fix all the fps spikes, the devs need to rewrite the whole game engine. This wont happen, waste of money and time. The mmorpg is a slowly dying genre.

Same for lag. They dont make enough money to pay better routing services.

 

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26 minutes ago, KzE said:

Even if whales quit, they wont fix it. They will sell the publishing rights to a super p2w company.

 

To fix all the fps spikes, the devs need to rewrite the whole game engine. This wont happen, waste of money and time. The mmorpg is a slowly dying genre.

Same for lag. They dont make enough money to pay better routing services.

 

evrything u stated is right. so why are we swasting time here?

 

if they wont fixc anything, why players still whine and complain about game? if they dont care , why bothering complaing "for the good of the game"?

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5 minutes ago, Shukran said:

evrything u stated is right. so why are we swasting time here?

 

if they wont fixc anything, why players still whine and complain about game? if they dont care , why bothering complaing "for the good of the game"?

Maybe i am a special snowflake, but i am following every game, where i invested some money (here i bought the master pack + 3-4 costumes).

Why i am complaining? I just dont want the whole genre disappear from west. Yes, i know business is first, but lets not kill that little hope :D

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Every mmrpg and just about every online game has a way where you pay real-life money for in-game money. Everyone seems so surprised and angry that they released RNG boxes. And if you want to be a whale or be significant, you gotta work for it. Whales(who have everything) spend their time working full-time jobs, family, etc. and don't get to play the game very much but they also help the game by giving money. If you want things, you must work for it, you can't get things for free. If you want to get xnumber of rng boxes, then take time to get a job, mow lawns, shovel driveways and make some money. What's so hard to understand about that?? If you desire it so much than go out and work for some money like everyone else who got some did. 

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On 1/4/2017 at 0:48 AM, Mortal Kombat said:

No, I rather spend $500 on food, clothing, essentials, necessities. I have to pay rent or I'll find myself on the street. I have to buy food otherwise Ill starve. I dont get to spend half a thousand dollars on entertainment just cause. I have an actual job, (sorry neck beards, BnS does not qualify as a job.) I have to earn every cent that goes into my back account, and it isnt withdrawn on a whim. It does not come from mommys purse, it does not come from abusing welfare, it does not come from milking workers comp while you sit home playing video games 24/7. Perhaps thats why I have a greater appreciation for money? Maybe.

 

 (Of course, its always easier throwing someone elses money away on nothing, than it is ones own, amirite?)

 

Now, if budget allows sure I'll invest in entertainment, but even then within reason. New TV if need be. A few games perhaps. Or maybe Il just go to a ballgame with friends, and maybe bar hop after. Point is...tangible things...money spent on things I can actually TOUCH. 

 

You cant TOUCH pixels. If NCSoft shut down BnS' servers, where would your pixel purchase go, hmm? Thats right nowehere cause guess what, that $500 you just spent trying to get a costume for your pretty virtual dolly bought you NOTHING. An imaginary costume, for your imaginary dolly. 

 

Heh, Im beginning to understand why you WK whales get so upset when people scoff at your expenses on games like this. Cant imagine how Id feel after throwing away $1000s on pixels.

 

kek.

Alright I am with you and understand. I personally dislike RNG boxes with a passion as well as a lot of financial trends in gaming. HOWEVER! I have come to understand it....to a degree anyway. You keep speaking on what you have to spend money on and to that I say what if they do the same? Throwing a lot of stereotypical shade on folks in a wide general sense. So you say you spend a couple bucks if you can. Welp what if your say 20 dollars every so often is someone else's 200 to them? One thing folks have to keep in mind is that not everyone plays in the same financial ballpark. What's reasonable to them might be unreasonable to you. Same way someone might toss out some food if they dropped it in the dirt while hungry people might still eat regardless. All about perspective. Not to say things you have described don't apply to someone spending because let's be serious.

13 hours ago, DannyInfect said:

Every mmrpg and just about every online game has a way where you pay real-life money for in-game money. Everyone seems so surprised and angry that they released RNG boxes. And if you want to be a whale or be significant, you gotta work for it. Whales(who have everything) spend their time working full-time jobs, family, etc. and don't get to play the game very much but they also help the game by giving money. If you want things, you must work for it, you can't get things for free. If you want to get xnumber of rng boxes, then take time to get a job, mow lawns, shovel driveways and make some money. What's so hard to understand about that?? If you desire it so much than go out and work for some money like everyone else who got some did. 

What does working for something or not have to do with anything? if people don't like RNG boxes for their reasons then they don't like them. Also not about if surprised or not. People don't like them therefore they don't support them, therefore they will be openly against them and therefore you get threads with some responses such as these. For someone asking "What's so hard to understand about that??" you are missing the most basic of understandings. 

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2 hours ago, ChubbyFatBoy said:

Alright I am with you and understand. I personally dislike RNG boxes with a passion as well as a lot of financial trends in gaming. HOWEVER! I have come to understand it....to a degree anyway. You keep speaking on what you have to spend money on and to that I say what if they do the same? Throwing a lot of stereotypical shade on folks in a wide general sense. So you say you spend a couple bucks if you can. Welp what if your say 20 dollars every so often is someone else's 200 to them? One thing folks have to keep in mind is that not everyone plays in the same financial ballpark. What's reasonable to them might be unreasonable to you. Same way someone might toss out some food if they dropped it in the dirt while hungry people might still eat regardless. All about perspective. Not to say things you have described don't apply to someone spending because let's be serious.

I dont even know how this turned into me hatin' on all whales. I dont personally care how much of peoples own money they spend in game. My issue, is with others whom claim some form of superiority over me cause they sink morning money into this game than I.

 

"Oh, Im a whale, I singlehandedly support this game, you owe your playing time to me, bow down before me peasant!" That type of crap.

 

At some point I went off on some form of moral tangent. I'm easily distracted that way.

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16 hours ago, DannyInfect said:

Every mmrpg and just about every online game has a way where you pay real-life money for in-game money. Everyone seems so surprised and angry that they released RNG boxes. And if you want to be a whale or be significant, you gotta work for it. Whales(who have everything) spend their time working full-time jobs, family, etc. and don't get to play the game very much but they also help the game by giving money. If you want things, you must work for it, you can't get things for free. If you want to get xnumber of rng boxes, then take time to get a job, mow lawns, shovel driveways and make some money. What's so hard to understand about that?? If you desire it so much than go out and work for some money like everyone else who got some did. 

What about the whales that dont work at all? The ones that spend $1000's of other peoples money ingame.

 

The whales whom have free access to limitless mommy/daddy funds...

 

The stay at home 24/7 spending government/unemployment benefits whales...

 

Should we admire, praise, and yearn to be them as well?

 

Not all whales are created equally.

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Doesn't matter how the whales are created, it's foolish to support a system that takes your money for nothing. The same people that are profligate with their money here despite getting so little for it are the same ones who would cry foul in real life if their bank or financial advisor or some random company were fleecing them the same way, and it just defies logic. Why it's more acceptable to throw away money for nothing on pixels than other things I don't know. I also don't understand why people fight so hard to defend a company treating everyone like his or her money and time aren't valuable.

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1 hour ago, Mortal Kombat said:

What about the whales that dont work at all? The ones that spend $1000's of other peoples money ingame.

 

The whales whom have free access to limitless mommy/daddy funds...

 

The stay at home 24/7 spending government/unemployment benefits whales...

 

Should we admire, praise, and yearn to be them as well?

 

Not all whales are created equally.

And not every person is created equal, obviously there will be naturally rich people, but you were born and atleast able to play blade and soul, Most people in the world have to keep working and can't afford/get internet, games or anything that you have. I'm just trying to say that you CAN get those RNG boxes, but you gotta get off your rear-end and work for it.

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