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Attempt at re-working the classes.


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So here's my suggestions to re-work or maybe even balance the classes.

 

KFM: remove the whole "resists after one second of usage" thing from our Q and E, really a good KFM won't really need it and it's mostly used for exploiting mechanics. The only time I ever see it being useful is against a WL's dragoncall spam (which I want re-worked as well). 

 

BM: Reduce the stun time on HM Z, and the damage of it. Reduce the damage done by Dragon tongue. Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to be fired or demoted. Seriously, nerf their damage already, it's not fun playing against them.

 

Destroyers/Blade Dancers: So we all know how annoying it is getting stun locked by a Destroyer or Blade Dancer's spin. But they need to defend themselves somehow, while punishing the opposing player. So why not make it a damage reflect? Like I can't honestly imagine being stunned by someone deflecting a projectile at me, maybe have the animation still, but the stun is over excessive. Since we're doing that, please make it so we can break destroyer shields? Please? It's just way too unfair that their shields is a block mechanic and is immune to block breakers. Like seriously, it's too much. Let them have everything else but please remove that whole "immune to block breaker" effect. 

 

Summoners: The healing class huh? A little too much healing going on in the arena. When they're not healing, they're on the other side of the map. What I think we should do, is give the cat less health in the arena, or at least do something to make the cat not be so over powered. I just don't really know what to do about them in all honesty. We can't remove their healing without making them useless in PVE. So what I think we should do is just nerf the damage out-put. Maybe even make them slower when in stealth or something?

 

Assassins: speaking of stealth...suggestion to make an endless stealth sin less of a pain in the a$$ would be to make them move at the same speed when in stealth. Because realistically and as seen in plenty of other games, moving in stealth tends to slow you down. Anyone who has ever played Metal Gear or Splinter Cell will tell you that a good assassin doesn't run, unless they can get away with it. In the case of the arena, you can still see the assassin through stealth. So what I would suggest is that we make it so if you have an assassin in your cross hairs long enough, you can target them, even with stealth. Just so that way we can have a chance of knocking them out of it, instead of wasting our AoE attacks praying that somehow we're close enough to get them. One last change, make it so that they have to exit stealth in order to stealth again. That last one might be overly excessive but, in all honesty it should be put through a Public Testing Server first.

 

FM: Reduce the chill time...no I'm serious, reduce it from 10 seconds to 8 and reduce the 6 to 4. But also, can we get a skill that allows us to flash freeze or burn someone after using Q or E to get behind them? Maybe just freeze if we use Frost step, and a burn effect with daze if we us Fire Step. FMs don't nearly have enough things to tech chase with. We only have two skills for tech chasing, not counting grip throw (which really isn't all that good unless they're thrown into a wall). 

 

WL: Make Dragon Helix require focus, and make it so that Dragon Call requires more focus on every use. IDK. Summoner and WLs just seem so broken in PVP, but the way they're currently designed makes it impossible for them to be balanced in PVE and PVP. 

 

SF: They seem balanced enough, I would just make it so they don't need the HM skill in order to counter out of chill stacks, but that's my personal opinion. The only issue I have is how they're played. A lot of the times I see SFs running off in the middle of a fight, and it just annoys the Hell out of me. I guess maybe extend the CD on their 2 skill in KFM stance. I really don't see any need for buffing or nerfing them.

 

Honestly I can't solve all the game's problems, but however I would like to hear other people's suggestions on what can and shouldn't be changed.

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I agree with KFM, Sin, WL and BM

 

If they remove the stun from spin that would destroy the spin classes. Block is already better than spin in a lot of cases and doesn't require focus. If they did remove stun spin only way to balance that change in game would be something like "removes block approach when spin is casted" or something or else it would be useless to spin 100% of the time vs an FM or maybe even WL

 

Summoner already beatable if you play right, they just annoying to fight. 

 

SF: i would merge the cd of their q/e in their stances, so for example if they use q/e and switch stances they won't be able to q/e again because cd didnt reset. Nerf their heal, and nerf their speed boost.

 

And the destroyer HM shield..well I meaan BD,BM both have skills that make them immune to everything while being able to move freely and attack while immune. Dest hm shield is just a cheap immitation of that which honestly they kind of need in certain matches. (like WL but even then it doesn't block aoe cc so doesn't help that much)

 

FM: i would nerf the ability to block approach someone for 100% of the match (yes ik its not easy to keep chill up b ut come on..its not THAT hard) Give their block approach a cd

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For sins i think removing the movement speed is the wrong approach as it actually makes the class more fun being agile and all. And tbh the classes where you would want to run away at times, like warlocks. Even with the movementspeed you cant as they just ss once and then hit you with their insane reach.

I would remove rng evade, also on the 1 skill and in exchange buff our q. Im not asking for more iframes but the annimationlock it comes with is horrible and makes qing tabs a lot of the time a huge gamble aka a bad play. Or an iframe on sucessfull q would also be cool as 'another option' instead of the annimation lock remove. Against warlock, summoner, bm, or really any class. If you q something it often times wont even matter as we get annimation locked and they IMMIDIATELY flock of blade you out of stealth again (witch we cant evade as it pierces defence). Basically if you remove evade you HAVE to buff our q otherwise you might as well delete our q as as a whole. Personally i like the iframe on sucess more as it gives your opponent an option to wait and still abuse the annimationlock and in the end we do have other options to play around tab escapes that are more save. Outright removing the annimationlock would make it an auto press on almost any stun.

Edited by N3ro
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On 28.12.2016 at 9:19 PM, ARC1276 said:

So here's my suggestions to re-work or maybe even balance the classes.

 

KFM: remove the whole "resists after one second of usage" thing from our Q and E, really a good KFM won't really need it and it's mostly used for exploiting mechanics. The only time I ever see it being useful is against a WL's dragoncall spam (which I want re-worked as well). 

 

BM: Reduce the stun time on HM Z, and the damage of it. Reduce the damage done by Dragon tongue. Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to be fired or demoted. Seriously, nerf their damage already, it's not fun playing against them.

 

Destroyers/Blade Dancers: So we all know how annoying it is getting stun locked by a Destroyer or Blade Dancer's spin. But they need to defend themselves somehow, while punishing the opposing player. So why not make it a damage reflect? Like I can't honestly imagine being stunned by someone deflecting a projectile at me, maybe have the animation still, but the stun is over excessive. Since we're doing that, please make it so we can break destroyer shields? Please? It's just way too unfair that their shields is a block mechanic and is immune to block breakers. Like seriously, it's too much. Let them have everything else but please remove that whole "immune to block breaker" effect. 

 

Summoners: The healing class huh? A little too much healing going on in the arena. When they're not healing, they're on the other side of the map. What I think we should do, is give the cat less health in the arena, or at least do something to make the cat not be so over powered. I just don't really know what to do about them in all honesty. We can't remove their healing without making them useless in PVE. So what I think we should do is just nerf the damage out-put. Maybe even make them slower when in stealth or something?

 

Assassins: speaking of stealth...suggestion to make an endless stealth sin less of a pain in the a$$ would be to make them move at the same speed when in stealth. Because realistically and as seen in plenty of other games, moving in stealth tends to slow you down. Anyone who has ever played Metal Gear or Splinter Cell will tell you that a good assassin doesn't run, unless they can get away with it. In the case of the arena, you can still see the assassin through stealth. So what I would suggest is that we make it so if you have an assassin in your cross hairs long enough, you can target them, even with stealth. Just so that way we can have a chance of knocking them out of it, instead of wasting our AoE attacks praying that somehow we're close enough to get them. One last change, make it so that they have to exit stealth in order to stealth again. That last one might be overly excessive but, in all honesty it should be put through a Public Testing Server first.

 

FM: Reduce the chill time...no I'm serious, reduce it from 10 seconds to 8 and reduce the 6 to 4. But also, can we get a skill that allows us to flash freeze or burn someone after using Q or E to get behind them? Maybe just freeze if we use Frost step, and a burn effect with daze if we us Fire Step. FMs don't nearly have enough things to tech chase with. We only have two skills for tech chasing, not counting grip throw (which really isn't all that good unless they're thrown into a wall). 

 

WL: Make Dragon Helix require focus, and make it so that Dragon Call requires more focus on every use. IDK. Summoner and WLs just seem so broken in PVP, but the way they're currently designed makes it impossible for them to be balanced in PVE and PVP. 

 

SF: They seem balanced enough, I would just make it so they don't need the HM skill in order to counter out of chill stacks, but that's my personal opinion. The only issue I have is how they're played. A lot of the times I see SFs running off in the middle of a fight, and it just annoys the Hell out of me. I guess maybe extend the CD on their 2 skill in KFM stance. I really don't see any need for buffing or nerfing them.

 

Honestly I can't solve all the game's problems, but however I would like to hear other people's suggestions on what can and shouldn't be changed.

So basically nerf every mechanic that ur having trouble with in pvp = balance

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All of those mechanics are literally what make the class lol

 

KFM no 1 sec Q/E iframe? : Ok sure,give them a 15 second cd Q/E that only has 0.3 sec iframe,that sounds fair : /

 

BM reducing stun Z duration? Its a one minute cooldown projectile ,men. The 3 second is justified

 

Stunlocked by BD and Dest parry? Are you like actively hitting into it or what

 

Well,sin stealth move speed does create some desyncing issues but the argument of "assassin's usually move slow " is silly . Sins are most dangerous as they come out of stealth,not during it. The real problem there is latency and network issues.

 

Nerfing summoner's cat health that is at 20k hp will just make anyone two shot the cat

 

FM's chill last that long to force people's debuff removal

 

Pretty sure Helix and DC cost focus unless WL proc the instant cast 

 

SF  KFM Q,E require them to be in melee range...how are they running away with that?

 

 

Lastly,what class and what rating are you exactly ..?

 

 

Edited by Hinu
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First of all, I think that skills should work differently in PvE and PvP to avoid situations, when some class will become nearly useless in PvE because of re-balancing for PvP. What I'd like to change (talking only about PvP now):

 

1. WL's soulburn. It's too op in PvP. On arena, if WL use it, they start to deal huge damage, like 10 or 20% of your hp per hit. It's effects should be removed/nerfed against players. Its simply not fair, I don't know other class that has similar damage boost from skill.

2. Destroyers and blade dancer's grab. It is deadly in 6vs6 and often in tag match (if bd and their teammates are smart enough). Make it not working vs players. The fact that their teammates can hit you while you are grabbed is enough, no need to boost their damage.

3. Sumonner's cat and healing abilities. Cat that has hp almost the same as player, plenty of cc, the same or a bit bigger size than owner - its too much. In heat of a battle I often can't tell who is pet and who is owner. Especially in 6vs6, when pet has custom name and in your target looks almost like other player. Ability to restore like 60% of HP is too much too. 

4. All classes that have block/counter - make it less spammable. In this regard SF's counter is more balanced - it's very powerful, but you can't spam it and need training and luck to use it in time.

5. Whirlwind/beluga special: make capturing impossible when character is not visible. We don't have so many AOE's to spam.

Edited by Gennady
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48 minutes ago, Hinu said:

All of those mechanics are literally what make the class lol

 

KFM no 1 sec Q/E iframe? : Ok sure,give them a 15 second cd Q/E that only has 0.3 sec iframe,that sounds fair : /

 

BM reducing stun Z duration? Its a one minute cooldown projectile ,men. The 3 second is justified

 

Stunlocked by BD and Dest parry? Are you like actively hitting into it or what

 

Well,sin stealth move speed does create some desyncing issues but the argument of "assassin's usually move slow " is silly . Sins are most dangerous as they come out of stealth,not during it. The real problem there is latency and network issues.

 

Nerfing summoner's cat health that is at 20k hp will just make anyone two shot the cat

 

FM's chill last that long to force people's debuff removal

 

Pretty sure Helix and DC cost focus unless WL proc the instant cast 

 

SF  KFM Q,E require them to be in melee range...how are they running away with that?

 

 

Lastly,what class and what rating are you exactly ..?

 

 

Rank 24~25 FM, I also play KFM and SF. I was also attempting to remove the things people found to be the most annoying about the in game classes while not completely leaving them screwed over. Not my best attempt but I'm trying to think up of a re-work.

 

Also, the BM's pull can literally carry the class now. I've remembered more than a few instances where they won purely because of that skill alone. Not because they were good, but because they got that one skill of at the right time. That there is an indicator that the class needs a nerf, when you can literally lose just because of one skill, you know we have a problem.

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1 hour ago, Hinu said:

SF  KFM Q,E require them to be in melee range...how are they running away with that?

SF's Q and E in elemental (FM) stance doesn't need target, you just jump forward. I'm a SF and use them to avoid damage and move away in hard situations. 

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59 minutes ago, ARC1276 said:

Also, the BM's pull can literally carry the class now. I've remembered more than a few instances where they won purely because of that skill alone. Not because they were good, but because they got that one skill of at the right time. That there is an indicator that the class needs a nerf, when you can literally lose just because of one skill, you know we have a problem.

Getting hit by pull alone won't win them the match.. but it is a pretty efficient "noob" stomper. Most people can't keep up with skills and CDs won't be expecting HM Z to the face, and many lack the ping and reflexes to dodge on the fly.  I haven't checked the latest KR changes, but I think they added a cast time to it at one point, which I think is pretty great. It's still a finisher/tab forcer, but instead of ez mode catching you need to set it up. Starter of course suffers a bit from that, but BM is well equipped to handle starters anyway.

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1 hour ago, Gratus said:

Getting hit by pull alone won't win them the match.. but it is a pretty efficient "noob" stomper. Most people can't keep up with skills and CDs won't be expecting HM Z to the face, and many lack the ping and reflexes to dodge on the fly.  I haven't checked the latest KR changes, but I think they added a cast time to it at one point, which I think is pretty great. It's still a finisher/tab forcer, but instead of ez mode catching you need to set it up. Starter of course suffers a bit from that, but BM is well equipped to handle starters anyway.

That actually sounds like a good idea.

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wait what.. you want to remove q / e from kfm? why dont you just make a suggestion to remove our counter too.. so we can be more sitting ducks

and the fact you talking about giving fm some stupid buffs? when your counter/block is nearly better then kfm / bm's? kek i really hope you never will be a game dev

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Useless topic.

I think the professionnal persons who worked on this game(for years and years) are more competent than you are to decide how to balance (and make) their game.

Furthermore I don't see a single good rated person complaining about balance and they all lead us to the same point

which is : L2P and Git Gud.

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7 hours ago, Kyrrua said:

Useless topic.

I think the professionnal persons who worked on this game(for years and years) are more competent than you are to decide how to balance (and make) their game.

Furthermore I don't see a single good rated person complaining about balance and they all lead us to the same point

which is : L2P and Git Gud.

Although i agree that no random person should be trying to balance a game you have to also understand that... the Game's devs are extremly incompetent. 

They wouldn't know balance if it slapped them all across the face. Or was the making of fire bm not proof enough for you? What about not releasing all the hm skills at once? about not making pvp p2w?

 

Face it the BNS devs have no idea what they are doing.

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Nice 2017 joke Kyrrua.

 

They, professionals, have a group of investors behind, the final objective of investing into such game development is to attain profits from you and me, by adjusting classes to take turn enlisting into what the community perceived as OP tier, they could generate more profits when some of the users will definitely bandwagon it all over and investing into a new class development. They earn nothing having the ideal balance every gamers wished to have, literally most of the gameplay aspect in this game are majorly achievable without even paying, what else could they milk from the general population asides of the niche group which we refers to as 'whale' that aims for the top of top luxuries.

 

Don't they renew the class system recently? Ask for the players who have experienced it regarding the new system, is it more balance than it used to be? I doubt it is. Where is our beloved Jaesung of whom everyone pretty much would brought up as a counter argument against FM being underwhelmed, what is he doing now? *Oh right, he switched to KFM* Can he experience it for us?

 

Now that gunner has its first teaser, I can safely to expect some OP stuffs added into the entire system later on, just like how Warlock won the world champion at its first introduction.

 

Edited by Zerecas
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7 minutes ago, Zerecas said:

Here's the result of KR developer's latest reworking of classes.

https://i.redd.it/2g26e4kn6s7y.jpg

 

2017 Joke, #gitgud&l2p.

Current kr patch is totally unbalanced because skill trees are totally reworked. It will take time until we get balance that good as it is right now for us. But that was the best time rework trees after tournament. So they have plenty of time balance before 2017 tournament now. If you think current patch is unbalanced for us, it is multiple times worse in current kr patch.

Edited by Suna
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12 minutes ago, Suna said:

Current kr patch is totally unbalanced because skill trees are totally reworked. It will take time until we get balance that good as it is right now for us. But that was the best time rework trees after tournament. So they have plenty of time balance before 2017 tournament now. If you think current patch is unbalanced for us, it is multiple times worse in current kr patch.

It has never been balance, our version or theirs. All the developers bloody did was replacing Blade Master with other classes on the top tier.

 

If their reworking is solely based on tournament then balance will never be achieved, not even close, if class tier exist, imbalance exist, all they did was basing it on AN experienced individual performance rather than a collective set of experienced individuals performance. Besides, if balance really exist back then, they don't have to update the skills once awhile.

 

Didn't Soul Fighter performs well in the recent tournament? See what happened to the general population of the Soul Fighters, not even one on the KR board.

Same stuff happens to Force Master for winning tournament ages ago, see what happen to it now, just 3 of them on the top 100 and those KR FM is at rank 58th, 84th and 93th . On this side, see what happen to our very own version as well, NA first rank FM is at 53th, and the only FM at top 100.

 

I might as well reroll to Assassin seeing how they pretty much survive these bullshits throughout the beginning of 50cap to 55cap.

And then here's come the gunner later on, they can't even handle the current classes discrepancies, and they're gonna add a new one soon enough.

 

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id like to see minor buffs in force masters

give ss escape a minor iframe so its not totally negated when you are pushed into wall

make frozem armor stage 2 tier 3 non tech chaseable.

make phantom grip a faster cast maybe?

the time it takes after player gets up when phantom grip effect ends should be a few miliseconds longer. why? so you can rmb impact reliably without having to fear to lose the match because of minor lag.

if only one of these things could happen, i'd pick the last one on my list. too many times i lose match because of that stupid thing.

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On ‎01‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 0:57 PM, 882184_1452550488 said:

wait what.. you want to remove q / e from kfm? why dont you just make a suggestion to remove our counter too.. so we can be more sitting ducks

and the fact you talking about giving fm some stupid buffs? when your counter/block is nearly better then kfm / bm's? kek i really hope you never will be a game dev

Bet u never actually used FM HM impact...

Nowhere near as reliable as KFM counter ;/ only vs idiots who blast all their gap closers on it without trying to aim at you from a side.

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On 12/30/2016 at 4:40 PM, Symex said:

So basically nerf every mechanic that ur having trouble with in pvp = balance

I think the real fun part about pvp is to find out what kind of fighting style you use and what kind of opponent you fight will be easy or hard? If you find out you have trouble with certain class (For me I play BM and I think BD is always too strong, they got the spin so they can block while moving like KFM and spin for resistance like DES, BD also got the grab like FM basically just like a mush up class from everything....) That's why we can always re-arrange our skill tree to make our skill match or can counter our opponent. There is always a counter solution in this game we just need to be patient~

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On 5.1.2017 at 5:27 AM, Zerecas said:

It has never been balance, our version or theirs. All the developers bloody did was replacing Blade Master with other classes on the top tier.

 

If their reworking is solely based on tournament then balance will never be achieved, not even close, if class tier exist, imbalance exist, all they did was basing it on AN experienced individual performance rather than a collective set of experienced individuals performance. Besides, if balance really exist back then, they don't have to update the skills once awhile.

 

Didn't Soul Fighter performs well in the recent tournament? See what happened to the general population of the Soul Fighters, not even one on the KR board.

Same stuff happens to Force Master for winning tournament ages ago, see what happen to it now, just 3 of them on the top 100 and those KR FM is at rank 58th, 84th and 93th . On this side, see what happen to our very own version as well, NA first rank FM is at 53th, and the only FM at top 100.

 

I might as well reroll to Assassin seeing how they pretty much survive these bullshits throughout the beginning of 50cap to 55cap.

And then here's come the gunner later on, they can't even handle the current classes discrepancies, and they're gonna add a new one soon enough.

 

Well there is not any mmo game that is perfectly balanced. There is 9 different classes and all classes have 8 different match that need to be balanced(mirror should be balanced). It is impossible balance everything. BTW i have never seen any mmo game that is balanced after major expansion like lvl 55 patch, have you? If there would be one i would say those developers would be most genius developers ever.  WHat i was saying current balance is still lot more better than what it is in the korea and it get plenty of time tune skills until we get same point.

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