Ap

[NeoAllen]

i hav a question to ask is this game all about ap? i know  ap and the high lvl players r making it too much ap dependent. i want to ask freaking WHY??

i have run these dungeons like nexus, nexus,hm,lair, sogun, cs and the others from when i was like 400 ap. now i have 475 ap and i am trying to run these dungeons for the daily challenges and they r freaking asking for 550 ap to run hm and lair. i mean wtf. they r pretending as if i will slow them  down if i am not high enough.

i went into nexus in the lobby there was a noob who saw my ap and left after that i ran with those same players(expect that noob_) and did it without dying or resetting  the drill sergent boss.

so i want to ask is it really needed to get that  550 ap for nexus or is it imp to mech??

and before u answer i want to make clear i know what ap is and what it does but my point is is it realy imp to be 550 in a group which have 2 550  players.?

[Lunakitty]

People assume high AP = experience. Sometimes it is not quite so but they still assume it. Also people want to do fast runs and not runs where they defeat the boss at last second.

[ander01se]

I don't think even a "perfect" six man team with warlock, assassin/kfm, destroyer/blade dancer who play flawless will beat the enrage timers with an average 400 ap, except maybe in HM.

 

There is of course lots of factors that can affect damage output.

Such as a good skill build, ping, knowing your class etc (we've all had those people with much better gear that performs worse than yourself).

But that's also a reason people don't always wanna go with 'minimum' reqs because that leaves no room for some guy / gal with shitty performance.

 

In my experience you need around ~475 ap for nexus on average with randoms. Having buff classes mentioned above helps. But ~475 leaves little / no room for deaths or mistakes. 

 

tl. dr. If you have 400 ap in most of those dungeons then you're just asking people to drag you along.

[SoulsHunter]

The thing is nobody wants to play the game, they just want to farm things in less than 10mins per run.

 

So sadly accordingly to them low AP will slow them down because it will drag the fight longer and make them farm less things.

[Draelth]

1 minute ago, ander01se said:

I don't think even a "perfect" six man team with warlock, assassin/kfm, destroyer/blade dancer who play flawless will beat the enrage timers with an average 400 ap, except maybe in HM.

 

There is of course lots of factors that can affect damage output.

Such as a good skill build, ping, knowing your class etc (we've all had those people with much better gear that performs worse than yourself).

But that's also a reason people don't always wanna go with 'minimum' reqs because that leaves no room for some guy / gal with shitty performance.

 

In my experience you need around ~475 ap for nexus on average with randoms. Having buff classes mentioned above helps. But ~475 leaves little / no room for deaths or mistakes. 

 

tl. dr. If you have 400 ap in most of those dungeons then you're just asking people to drag you along.

Well, till Nexus you can clear in a very easy way all 6 man content with around 450 Ap, with 500 you can clear anything up to Asura (6 man) and all 4 man till Nexus.

 

With 550 Tomb and Citadel 6 man are an easy ride same as Gloom, Shatt and Asura 4 man.

 

With 650 Tomb and Citadel 4 man is doable.

 

Of course you need a balance party, people who know how to gear up and a average level of skill, simple as that. Sadly, like in many other games, some players only increase their AP/ILvL/Gearscore and forgot about anything else so their perfomance is low and they need to overgear content in order to compensate.

 

But this mentality can't be fixed, the best you can do is find a nice guild (not an easy task).

[ander01se]

29 minutes ago, Draelth said:

Well, till Nexus you can clear in a very easy way all 6 man content with around 450 Ap, with 500 you can clear anything up to Asura (6 man) and all 4 man till Nexus.

 

I'd never go Nexus with an average 450 ap party full of randoms. Success rate would be below 50% probably dip under 33%. If that's fine with you, then good on you. :p

 

Edit:

 

And I'd probably avoid Lair / Avalanche Den too with 450 ap. Naga King can be a close call even at 470-480.

[Draelth]

Dunno, first time I cleared was with an average of 450 ap or so with 0 problems. Wipes there are because mechanics and nothing else.

 

33 minutes ago, ander01se said:

Edit:

And I'd probably avoid Lair / Avalanche Den too with 450 ap. Naga King can be a close call even at 470-480.

What? Everyone at that party with that gear must be really really really bad, because one person can carry Avalanche this days and Lair always was a joke. This is going to sound rude but dude, get real. Those req are unrealistic and Avalanche/Lair/Necropolis are the next step for any new player. People was clearing those dungeons at 4 man mode with an average of 480 AP at silverfrost release, before 1 minute SB, OP grabs, OP BM and in general less DPS.

[ander01se]

41 minutes ago, Draelth said:

Dunno, first time I cleared was with an average of 450 ap or so with 0 problems. Wipes there are because mechanics and nothing else.

 

What? Everyone at that party with that gear must be really really really bad, because one person can carry Avalanche this days and Lair always was a joke. This is going to sound rude but dude, get real. Those req are unrealistic and Avalanche/Lair/Necropolis are the next step for any new player. People was clearing those dungeons at 4 man mode with an average of 480 AP at silverfrost release, before 1 minute SB, OP grabs, OP BM and in general less DPS.

Do you even play with (LFG) randoms? The amount of people who dies on the first 1-2 yeti aoes are ridiculous.

 

Edit:

 

Just did a Yeti run to see how that went. First Yeti aoe 3 frozen people, second aoe 5 frozen. Sadly they had too good gear / got lucky and didn't die from the aoe. :P

[Kisagii]

A 470ap+ pt in nexus can 4man the 6man dungeon with barely making the timer as long as they know their chr well. I've experienced it with my WL when I had it at 475ap, but my WL does more dps than a 580ap person. When I recruit for parties like nexus on my main which has around 680+ap when I'm having a tiring day I just ask for anyone to join having 500+ ap or not allowing everyone to join. As long as people know the mechs it's fine.

 

Now let me say some ridiculous things I've been seeing lately. Recently as of the patches ago people have been recruiting for asura, necro, lair, yeti, nexus, and etc. for 550+. Now do you really need that much? No. Asura if you do not want to risk the chance of dying of no dmg output then you need 500+ and same with nexus, but the rest are so easy as long as you have a good party that knows what to do as well. Some people might say "Getting 550+ ap is not that hard to get". Sure it itsn't, but it still takes time to farm for what you need and for what you need requires to do that dungeon if you already have 500ap.

 

CS recruiting has been going out of hand as well and an average 480+ group can clear it. Not fast, but they can do it. There was also a time when I was using my sin for EC with only 550+ap. Although this may seem laughable, but when I started recruiting people only joined and left because they thought I did not know what to do and will just fail them. Then once I did get enough people with an average of 600ap we cleared it quite easily and no one died.  The point of where I'm getting across to is that people in this game are becoming hypocrites and only think that ap is the only way to do and that thinking is clearly wrong. People should consider from what soul shields they have, crit, and etc. before even saying anything bad about them. 

 

Dungeons now a days for recruiting are getting out of hand and people should just at least try and help out the lower lvl players so they can gear up as quick as possible as well. This is one of the reasons why some people quit the game simply because of such hypocrites. Other than that if you are low just request for a certain ap you want to help carry you and hope someone will come. Most of the time someone will, but it may take time for them to.

[Draelth]

35 minutes ago, ander01se said:

Do you even play with (LFG) randoms? The amount of people who dies on the first 1-2 yeti aoes are ridiculous.

 

Edit:

 

Just did a Yeti run to see how that went. First Yeti aoe 3 frozen people, second aoe 5 frozen. Sadly they had too good gear / got lucky and didn't die from the aoe. :P

I do, with multiple chars. It's very rare that I don't finish a dungeon.

[DirectorTseng]

AP is not everything, but with AP comes the other stats required for a dungeon. The lower the AP the less likely they have upgraded their accessories which means unless they have farmed top Soul Shields and fused their stats like Accuracy and Critical are going to be low to and that does add up.

 

Last night we ran CS with a PT that was almost completely comprised of 450 and under, only one was high 400's while I was on my 535 Sin and my clanny was on his 630 sin. The others were three summoners (two were obvious bots with gear and SS) and the other a KFM. Even with me and Z our damage was such utter shit. We barely cleared the dungeon with 30 seconds before he enraged.

 

A great deal of people don't want to run the risk, many of these dungeons take time and that is something not everyone has a lot of. Especially in dungeons like Asura and Nexus that are already long.

[Beleth]

It's not that low AP means you can't run dungeons you can but people including myself are so sick of these dungeons that we run everyday that we just want to end it as fast as possible. As you grow stronger more and more stuff shows up for you to do and farm and when you have little time to play this game you just want to rush to get everything done because you know, if you want to grow you gotta do these dailies and everything you can. So yeah I prefer high AP and high HM lvl players in my party but it's not only AP... it's crit/crit dmg/accuracy these are very important as well. As for you join a clan where they can help you to gear up with ss and farm some daily gold.

[Draelth]

11 minutes ago, DirectorTseng said:

AP is not everything, but with AP comes the other stats required for a dungeon. The lower the AP the less likely they have upgraded their accessories which means unless they have farmed top Soul Shields and fused their stats like Accuracy and Critical are going to be low to and that does add up.

 

Last night we ran CS with a PT that was almost completely comprised of 450 and under, only one was high 400's while I was on my 535 Sin and my clanny was on his 630 sin. The others were three summoners (two were obvious bots with gear and SS) and the other a KFM. Even with me and Z our damage was such utter shit. We barely cleared the dungeon with 30 seconds before he enraged.

 

A great deal of people don't want to run the risk, many of these dungeons take time and that is something not everyone has a lot of. Especially in dungeons like Asura and Nexus that are already long.

Any problem at CS if due no one doing proper mechanics to gain that Piercing buff.

[gourmetcookie]

4 hours ago, NeoAllen said:

i hav a question to ask is this game all about ap? i know  ap and the high lvl players r making it too much ap dependent. i want to ask freaking WHY??

i have run these dungeons like nexus, nexus,hm,lair, sogun, cs and the others from when i was like 400 ap. now i have 475 ap and i am trying to run these dungeons for the daily challenges and they r freaking asking for 550 ap to run hm and lair. i mean wtf. they r pretending as if i will slow them  down if i am not high enough.

i went into nexus in the lobby there was a noob who saw my ap and left after that i ran with those same players(expect that noob_) and did it without dying or resetting  the drill sergent boss.

so i want to ask is it really needed to get that  550 ap for nexus or is it imp to mech??

and before u answer i want to make clear i know what ap is and what it does but my point is is it realy imp to be 550 in a group which have 2 550  players.?

Yes. That's all there really is. Quests are crap. The crafting should just be deleted, that's how bad it is.

 

Nothing really to do besides combat, combat, more combat.

 

Unless you like unlocking achievements which consist of running dungeons 50, 100, and 1,000 times.

 

BNS is a shallow, pretty avatar dress-up lobby.

 

The game could be so much more if only nc was competent.

[DirectorTseng]

1 hour ago, Draelth said:

Any problem at CS if due no one doing proper mechanics to gain that Piercing buff.

We only missed two CC's the entire time so mech was being run better then half the groups I am in normally. The damage was just utter shit.

[Draelth]

No, in fact I belive you have no idea what I'm talking about. Check this: https://www.reddit.com/r/bladeandsoul/comments/4h7viv/small_tip_for_cold_storage/

 

Quote

Sorry but then you're doing the dungeon wrong, if you don't get unfrozen by a fan you don't get the piercing debuff, sure you can brute force it down but its inefficient

Quote

 

If you're duoing this dungeon (which you should, so you get the most amount of Freezing Orbs per day), you should use these strategies:

If you're 1 melee tank and 1 ranged, have the ranged aggro the robots and just direct them away from the boss. When the boss freezes the ranged, he should go close to the robot right before he gets frozen, so the robot instantly passes through him and gives the pierce buff to both players. For this strategy, have the boss stay next to one of the walls.

If you're 2 melee, depending on your DPS, you need to figure out which robot is the one right before the boss uses his freeze attack. For this robot, you need to block it before it runs into the boss. This buys you enough time to get frozen by the boss and then get the pierce buff when the robot goes through you. For this strategy, have the boss stay in the middle of the room. For the other robots, just let them hit the boss and iframe the flashbang (they explode 3s after crashing into the boss).

If you're not sure which robot will be the one before the freeze attack, you can also block all of them until you figure it out.

 

 

[Dode]

Why dont you join a clan? let them carry you.

 

I recommend a clan with a discord, talk to them.

[Tsuzor]

On 12/11/2016 at 2:06 PM, ander01se said:

Do you even play with (LFG) randoms? The amount of people who dies on the first 1-2 yeti aoes are ridiculous.

 

Edit:

 

Just did a Yeti run to see how that went. First Yeti aoe 3 frozen people, second aoe 5 frozen. Sadly they had too good gear / got lucky and didn't die from the aoe. :P

Well the thing is u can do all thos instances with 450/470 ap but the real thing is the players who know how to do the instance or not lets say i have 800 ap and i never did Yeti so if ill get frozen by 1st aoe am i a noob and u wont play with me or im a pro cuz i have 800 + ap, u can do it with ez but, remember when u where doing that instance the 1st time u got frozen proly too and more than once so judging ppl my their ap is not a rly ideal. Well ofc if u whana do like speed runs yes more ap = the faster the boss dies. 

[ander01se]

3 hours ago, Tsuzor said:

Well the thing is u can do all thos instances with 450/470 ap but the real thing is the players who know how to do the instance or not lets say i have 800 ap and i never did Yeti so if ill get frozen by 1st aoe am i a noob and u wont play with me or im a pro cuz i have 800 + ap, u can do it with ez but, remember when u where doing that instance the 1st time u got frozen proly too and more than once so judging ppl my their ap is not a rly ideal. Well ofc if u whana do like speed runs yes more ap = the faster the boss dies. 

I *DO* remember the first time I did Yeti. Got Frozen once but had bought two hearts which seems to be more than most players. And had watched some guide on yt. O_o

[Chiyouh]

It's not about the AP in general.

The dungeons are all doable with far lower AP requirements than what it is asked for. 

The Problem is: you can't know whether the people who join your pt KNOW and EXPERIENCED the mechanic in a certain dungeon. 

I really don't like to LFP, cause of following issues:

1) The people know the mechanics. The run goes smooth- everyone is happy.

2) One Person doesn't have a clue about what is happening and DOES NOT ASK AT ALL. In most of the dungeons this is not a big deal but certainly e.g. in nexus it can cause a whole PT wipe. And if you stack up that 4/6 people don't know the mechanics or refuse to do them (ccing in CS)..merry Christmas. 

I don't even mind if people don't know the mechanics or if they have low ap if they would ask about it and listen to explanations.

Recently we were at the last boss of EC, one DCed and we recruited. A 420ap guy joined and refused to leave. There are some requirements for some dungeons at least. And to exspect that carry (that it is with 420 in EC) is just ...

3) You get leechers who afk at the start.

 

So for those I highly recommend to do Clan runs. If you open up your own group - Ofc you ask for high AP so you can outbalance people that don't know the mechanics. You can brutaly ignore a lot of mechanics, accept some deaths if your group has high DPS. As well people have short limited time a day and can't waste it with explaining, wipes etc. 

 

I started not to give any AP requirements. The only thing i say is: "know mechanics" or of it is for Yeti etc just "2/4". Never had any trouble with those. Funny is this mostly only works of you have high AP yourself. If I ask with my FM (500ap) berely people full it up. If i ask with BM (700ap) it fills easy.

 

Well as a conclusion: the high AP requirements exist to outbalance unexperienced people. People wiped too often/ have too less time to accept low AP people. I'd say in 400-500ap 60% don't know mechanics. 500-600ap it's probably 30%. 600+ it goes down to 10-20%. It's a shame to see when a 650ap Person doesn't know how a proper Yeti 4man looks like and refuses to ask about it. Then i rather take a 500ap Person lol.

-> Easiest way of having fun/minimate the wipes are Clan runs. ;)

[Tsuzor]

Tho i came across interesting thing not long ago and that was like rly wtf. Not long ago me and my gf applied for Asura 6 man run the guy was recruiting 550+ ap so we went for that as my char had 551 ap and my gf's char had 546 ap so after we got in to the room at start it was all fine but 1 min later he kicked my gf out of the room cuz she didnt have 550 ap but 546 ap. and for only 4 ap lower u kick a person out of group thats something, even tho all ppl with 550 or 1 person with 546 ap wouldnt make huge difference maybe over all groups dmg would go down by 50 points, even when i recruit like ppl with 550 ap i dont bother kicking ppl out that has 540+ cuz that doesnt change a thing at all, i would understand if my gf would have 500 ap or even lower but cuz of lacking 4 ap gets a kick from group thats a bit too much. 

[KzE]

31 minutes ago, Tsuzor said:

Tho i came across interesting thing not long ago and that was like rly wtf. Not long ago me and my gf applied for Asura 6 man run the guy was recruiting 550+ ap so we went for that as my char had 551 ap and my gf's char had 546 ap so after we got in to the room at start it was all fine but 1 min later he kicked my gf out of the room cuz she didnt have 550 ap but 546 ap. and for only 4 ap lower u kick a person out of group thats something, even tho all ppl with 550 or 1 person with 546 ap wouldnt make huge difference maybe over all groups dmg would go down by 50 points, even when i recruit like ppl with 550 ap i dont bother kicking ppl out that has 540+ cuz that doesnt change a thing at all, i would understand if my gf would have 500 ap or even lower but cuz of lacking 4 ap gets a kick from group thats a bit too much. 

Next time just report him

 

" While playing Blade & Soul , you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. "

[SheeOri]

People ran these dungeons countless times and just want to get it over and done with. High AP with HM levels kinda show that that person has probably run this dungeon a lot of times and understands the basic mechanic of the dungeon. A low AP party carries high risk and no one wants to risk wasting time on a dungeon they have done 100 times. It's the sad but real truth.

[Shikkichu]

I understand all to well (back when I had low AP), I actually created a community for new/low ap players to dispel this crappy myth that you need high ap.
We have people teaching mechs, how to play your class, and pvp.

Also here's a list of the ACTUAL ap requirements.

Note: These are all rough estimates, and base AP = YOU MUST KNOW MECHS

 

6 Member Parties
Lair of The Frozen Fang: 400AP
Avalanche Den: 400AP (FM highly recommended)
Awakened Necropolis: 400AP
Sundred Nexus: 450AP
Sogun's Lament: 450AP
Gloomdross Incursion: 500AP
The Shattered Masts: 500AP
 

As for the community our discord id is RtEdAdW

[AceMaster]

On 12/12/2016 at 7:08 PM, Shikkichu said:

I understand all to well (back when I had low AP), I actually created a community for new/low ap players to dispel this crappy myth that you need high ap.
We have people teaching mechs, how to play your class, and pvp.

Also here's a list of the ACTUAL ap requirements.

 

Dude....OP admitted he went to all those dungeons with 400 AP. How much do you want to bet that he had less than 110% acc and less then 40% crit? He didn't knew mechs and probably still doesn't because he was carried.

 

On 12/11/2016 at 11:51 AM, NeoAllen said:

...

I hate to burst your bubble, but it's because of you and people like you. I usually use random parties, and you won't believe the nerve of some people. 20% crit rate, less than 350 AP (the guy was hongmoon 10) for dungeons that require 500 average...

 

Here some food for your mind:

- with your AP you can solo blackram suply chain. Why don't you? Imagine doing that everyday for months ( hint, it's the same reason why people don't want to party with you)

- it's like going tiger hunting with a knife while everyone else is bringing machine guns and expecting the same reward. While i have no doubts you can wrestle tigers with your bare hands, I'm pretty sure bringing a machine gun is common sense. It's not other fault that you are still in the dark age.

- it's a headache.

 

Should I go on?

 

Ok. Here are some facts:

- Unless you screw up somewhere, you should have 400 AP, hongmoon 3, after you finish story

- you can reach 500 AP, 40% crit, in 2-3 weeks, playing 2-3 hours a day without doing ANY lvl 50 purple dungeons. Only blue lvl 50 dungeons and purple lvl45(for breakthrough)

- 550 AP requires dungeons up to and including yeti

- 600 AP the rest of the dungeons mentioned by Shikkichu...nothing more

- 500 AP is enough to do mushin tower 1-15. 15 might be harder for some classes but 1-14 should be doable. Don't be discouraged if you can't. Try and try again ( when you have time). It will make you a better player

- if you press P, you can see where is your gear relative with dungeons, try to stick close to that, and you won't have any issues, even with random parties.

- you are not alone, think and help other people, don't be the hindrance.

 

You are not a good player, I am not a good player. Always assume that, always bring more than the required minimum to offset that.

Some people will be jerks and intentionally enter a dungeons with low gear. Rather than that being you, why not bring even more to the table so people can rely on you?

Always read a guide, watch a movie about dungeons, your dps rotation. You might be doing it wrong without knowing it.

 

FYI, a minimum of 475AP is when you should have started doing daily challenge, not sooner. Otherwise you rely on someone else skill for some high level dungeons, not yours.

 

If you can enter a dungeon, doesn't mean you should. In most random parties i've been, people don't talk AT ALL. How do you expect to finish a dungeons with the minimum AP without communication?

 

Some party compositions are bad. AP will save the day lol.

At the end of the day, even if you want to admit it or not,...yeah, it's because of you. Because you didn't gave a damn about anyone else.

 

I hope this helped you and you can accept this criticism.

Cheers.