And now you are pay-to-win

[Xiaoyen]

I remember lots of people complaining that BnS was "pay-to-win." Having come from a much worse MMO in this regard, I always white knighted and claimed that, "nah, this is pay for convenience." I kept making this argument even as it became obvious that mysterious crystals almost never drop from cold storage and that pet drop is also extremely low meaning that realistically you have to pay if you want a good pet and gems. However, I now give up. You released that insane energy that gives people an extra 450 AP on hit for 6 seconds and there are people that already own it day 1 of release. These people of course paid massive money and now can steamroll over anyone without this energy. Congrats. You are now pay-to-win even in my eyes. I know nothing will change, but just thought I'd give you some feedback. Believe me, I love this game. If I didn't I would have just moved on quietly. However, I find myself annoyed more day by day. My faction is completely outnumbered and I know that one of the people that lives in soul stone plains has this energy. Maybe he is the boss of the gold sellers to afford it? I don't know. But, if I have no chance to compete anymore, can I at least have more grooming options for my cat? 

[Wataru]

The one you speak of has the new belt, too.

 

They farmed for nearly a year a ton. Meanwhile the minority faction had to struggle with not just numbers, but less options to farm. No attempts for catch-up farming for the smaller side to close the gap. Later on 6v6 and Mushin's Tower are nice, but does nothing to show a faction can get something done or even exist.

[Sayong]

Okay ehm .. so why should this be Pay to win? Because he farmed most of the mats before the Update came online? (like i did) Because he bought the other Stuff on the market? I dont know .. but my energy is already +5 with only the mats i farmed before the update was here.

[Cercueil]

Did you two mean they farmed with their credit card? There is no way they can get all those mats simply by farming and having all other gears and gems at max. Oh did I mention their alts too are in full legendary as well? You must be really delusional to even think that way. Unless you are trying to cover yourself up. LOL

[Shadovvv]

 

 

 

 

Our Soul, which has literally cut off RNG, upgrade fails, and 7 Stages, and is leveled through uncommon materials instead of Mysterious Crystal-esque items, is considered pay2win?

[Cercueil]

Your soul might cut of all RNG but is still more expensive to upgrade. That was not designed to get it on day 1 unless you buy gold from gold sellers. How is that not pay to win? Please enlighten me. We are talking about over 20k gold worth of materials. Meanwhile with RNG, you can still get it easily with 7k gold on CN. Not to mention an even cheaper better soul you can obtain than the one we just got.

[Xiaoyen]

For the record, I am not free to play. I am rank 10 VIP and I have invested money into the game such that I have almost all heptagonal gems (except my diamond), but the money involved in getting the energy ON DAY 1 is more than I am willing to spend. That's blue whale level money. And you know by the time people catch up, they will release some other super expensive melt-your-face item that these same people will again get on day 1.

[SheeOri]

Alright honestly as much as I want to believe that this game isn't pay to win, I just can't help feeling that as more content rolls out and new legendaries and souls get introduced, f2p players just get thrown further and further behind. But, given that basic HM AP gems are now available through events and now even the AP 8 HM Peridot can be obtained through the event, it gives hope that the future upgrades of the gem can be obtained through similar ways as well. And to be honest, other stuff like pets can be bought from the marketplace for relatively cheap but you have to invest a shit ton of gold just to get the legendary pet though which is not necessary if you want to PVE only but incredibly good if you want to PVP.

 

Even though our soul doesn't have the RNG or upgrade fails which people detest so much, you can't deny that it requires A LOT of resources (total needing around 63 sacred oils, and each of them is also around 300G right now). Do you really think a free to play player, even if you're a hardcore grinder, can achieve it? If you know someone who can, let me know cuz I need to know the secrets.

 

All in all, It feels like the game is easy and not p2w to a certain point, and then it gets incredibly hard and time-consuming to upgrade afterwards without investing money into the game. However, I do think that upgrading to that stage is over-kill and most if not all content does not actually require that kind of stats. Unless people are actually denied to clear content in the game without spending money to upgrade their gear, then it's a true p2w game in my opinion.

[Cercueil]

The game is Not That pay to win, I just want to put it there. It is Manageable for free to play players. It just requires a bit longer and more hard work, which is how the game and other servers designed to be like. HOWEVER! IT IS PAY TO WIN, when people try to exploit the game and gain their finance resource else where. Like screenshots of people spending over 40k gold buying moonstones! Where did they get that amount of income? Especially if that is from very beginning of the game. When they abuse the game like that, those of us who play legally are getting affected by it big time, such as 6v6 and Infinity Tower.

[Leodore]

Yesterday I upgraded my soul to stage 1, my weapon to stage 3 legenary (was stage 2) and my pet to stage 2 (awakened). I'm quite happy ^_^

Getting the max'd out gear so quickly, kinda ruins it for me, i like that each day or each couple of days i'm a bit stronger than i was before, gives me satisfaction. I'm not first to the finish line, but I will eventually cross it. My gear is adequate enough to do all current content, so it's not exactly holding me back or anything. 

[Sayong]

10 minutes ago, Leodore said:

Yesterday I upgraded my soul to stage 1, my weapon to stage 3 legenary (was stage 2) and my pet to stage 2 (awakened). I'm quite happy ^_^

Getting the max'd out gear so quickly, kinda ruins it for me, i like that each day or each couple of days i'm a bit stronger than i was before, gives me satisfaction. I'm not first to the finish line, but I will eventually cross it. My gear is adequate enough to do all current content, so it's not exactly holding me back or anything. 

And thats the point. Even if people cry alot about that they wont get the Energy to +10, it doenst even matter when you dont have it. Why? Because we didnt had it before and surly wont die if we dont get it in the nearly future. 

 

Like i said before, i got mine to +5 with the mats i farmed and i think i wont go any further in the near future, because its way to expensive and the pain/gain isnt worth it IMO.

[RudeBwoii]

i see dudes with HongMoon Energy - Stage 8 since half day yesterday... couldnt believe my eyes. and thats ~20k+ Gold worth of mats to make it, and its the same 820+ AP whales... well i wont grudge ppl for the extra funds they can swipe from mom and dad's purse/wallet or for the sweet funds they make at their jobs..... its their money and its up to them how they decide to spend it.... just make sure u still have a house and your kid's university money when u need it :D

[ARC1276]

Wait, you need 25 Sacred oils which require 5 Silverfrost Transformation stones and 10 Honorary Ornaments to make, each. That's about 125 Silverfrost Transformation stones, and 250 Honorary Ornaments, for one upgrade? You do know what 125 multiplied by 8 is, and what 250 multiplied by (at the most generous) 10 is?

 

The exact numbers: 1,000 and 2,500. So in total 3,500 gold. Can you name to me any good ways of getting that much without spending your life playing or opening your wallet?

 

Cause if so I'm all ears. And if you come to me with this BS of getting lucky with legendary drops, keep in mind you need at the VERY LEAST 600AP (which requires a lot of time and effort) to even be considered to run the dungeons that drop legendary, and even then your party might decide to kick you. 

[KlausFlouride]

It requires the evolved stones which exceptionally rare like the crystals. Comparing us to other regions is pointless: we don't use that same play style! KR see's us as cash cows and that's what our version is tailored to.

[Lunakitty]

Ever since Beastbog appeared people were living in there. Who knows how many there were. Not to mention people increased Evolved Stone prices 5-8 gold in one day by buying all the cheap ones.

[Leodore]

2 hours ago, RudeBwoii said:

i see dudes with HongMoon Energy - Stage 8 since half day yesterday... couldnt believe my eyes. and thats ~20k+ Gold worth of mats to make it, and its the same 820+ AP whales... well i wont grudge ppl for the extra funds they can swipe from mom and dad's purse/wallet or for the sweet funds they make at their jobs..... its their money and its up to them how they decide to spend it.... just make sure u still have a house and your kid's university money when u need it :D

 

2 hours ago, ARC1276 said:

Wait, you need 25 Sacred oils which require 5 Silverfrost Transformation stones and 10 Honorary Ornaments to make, each. That's about 125 Silverfrost Transformation stones, and 250 Honorary Ornaments, for one upgrade? You do know what 125 multiplied by 8 is, and what 250 multiplied by (at the most generous) 10 is?

 

The exact numbers: 1,000 and 2,500. So in total 3,500 gold. Can you name to me any good ways of getting that much without spending your life playing or opening your wallet?

 

Cause if so I'm all ears. And if you come to me with this BS of getting lucky with legendary drops, keep in mind you need at the VERY LEAST 600AP (which requires a lot of time and effort) to even be considered to run the dungeons that drop legendary, and even then your party might decide to kick you. 

 

Also most of the players I know that have stage 7 or 8 or even 9 bought their materials either before the announcement, or bought them IMMEDIATELY after the announcement and cleared out the market. Then prices started sky rocketing. But these prices were not like this before, and they will lower again, but maybe not quite as low as they were before due to the fact that now the costs for upgrades are feasible. Be patient, the patch has been in for less than 48 hours lol. Great for those who got it already, and RIP to people who run against them in 6v6, but it'll be fine, and you can slowly upgrade the items just like everyone except those who are rushing it. 

[FarenheitZer0]

The argument commonly used to defend NC cricketing management of BnS is that "It is not pay to win but pay to progress".

Reason be that part of the player base do not have the time to grind for their gear. These players have jobs, wives, kids, families, etc and

do not have the time to grind. So these players need a way to catch up with the free players.

 

When taking a look at the current state of BnS, I will like to ask that who exactly is trying to catch up with who?  The most geared players are not

your usual no life/neet hardcore grinders. No, the most geared players are those that play with their credit cards.

 

Gems mark up about 1/4 or so of a player gear, but these gem are block behind this pay to win wall.. I mean "pay for convinence" wall.

It is actual nearly impossible to obtain the material (mysterious cyrstals) for them in-game. Rather, you are need participate in events

where you need to "pay enough properly" to get these materials or be that lucky *cricket*.

 

As a free player, I usually hear that I have to participate in these RNG events in order to get mysteroius crystals. But as the name implies, it is RNG

and a free player need to invest much gold (I mean a lot) into it, to actually gain something usefull. But when you advance this point,

you can be sure to hear some BS like "u don't need max gear to clear any dungeon" lol.

 

Lets talk about this phrase. "You do not need this item or that OP gem to clear that dungeon". Yep this is true but I honestly thought that the aim

of any MMO player was to max out his/her character and this is the reason we all grind our way through these dungeons. If we don't near a

powerful or max gear to play the game, why are we doing the dungeons? why are we grinding? what is the purpose of grinding or even playing

the game if you do not need  gear to run the dungeon. This argument is just BS. 

 

To conclude with our HM soul, I will just say this: It is pay2win and the expensive one, full stop

12 minutes ago, Leodore said:

 

I am scared to put that into gold.

[Leodore]

11 minutes ago, FarenheitZer0 said:

I am scared to put that into gold.

Don't use current prices, as they are out of hand, it's been less than 48 hours since the update. This happens every time, nothing new, prices will stabilize, the economy will adjust, and then it'll be accessible. I personally am going to do small bit by small bit and slowly upgrade so I can appreciate the actual progress that I'm making, rather than instantly and never really appreciating it. 

[FarenheitZer0]

10 minutes ago, Leodore said:

Don't use current prices, as they are out of hand, it's been less than 48 hours since the update. This happens every time, nothing new, prices will stabilize, the economy will adjust, and then it'll be accessible. I personally am going to do small bit by small bit and slowly upgrade so I can appreciate the actual progress that I'm making, rather than instantly and never really appreciating it. 

You are right, I will do the same. I will forgo any other upgrades for it. It will take a very long period of time but I love the grind.

[Mortal Kombat]

Certaintly NC coddles and welcomes blue whales, however theres something else at work here that I find far worse. Player controlled bots. Actual players botting is SSP, etcis  far more detrimental than CC heroes, and thats something NC has no capacity to control.

 

Go see whats happening in Aion as we speak. Then prepare yourselves for whats to come.

 

So hold the praise for so called hardcore farmers...dude might just be botting his way to the top.

[Meginb]

I'm more concerned with getting all the snowflakes for the basic peridot then transmuting it to the higher grade one. It costs 150 to get the gem, 200 to transmute it for a total of 350 snowflakes. If you don't buy resets, you get on average, 5 snowflakes each day and do it every single day from start of event to finish which equals 43 days. You only get 215... it's a p2w event during the holidays that are supposed to represent giving. /sigh

[Suna]

25 minutes ago, Meginb said:

I'm more concerned with getting all the snowflakes for the basic peridot then transmuting it to the higher grade one. It costs 150 to get the gem, 200 to transmute it for a total of 350 snowflakes. If you don't buy resets, you get on average, 5 snowflakes each day and do it every single day from start of event to finish which equals 43 days. You only get 215... it's a p2w event during the holidays that are supposed to represent giving. /sigh

Gem is account bound. Collect 150 snowflakes with your alt and 200 with your main, That way you can get gem and upgrade without paying anything. On top of that you get snowflakes from daily spin if you lack some. 

[RudeBwoii]

18 minutes ago, Suna said:

Gem is account bound. Collect 150 snowflakes with your alt and 200 with your main, That way you can get gem and upgrade without paying anything. On top of that you get snowflakes from daily spin if you lack some. 

no its not. the 5 AP gem is untradeable and so are the snowflakes..... u think they designed so u can get away with not spending money???? u have to collect all 350 on 1 character then upgrade it.... after upgrading it then it becomes tradeable/account bound... NCSoft isnt stupid, so dont try to assume they are.

[Suna]

13 minutes ago, RudeBwoii said:

no its not. the 5 AP gem is untradeable and so are the snowflakes..... u think they designed so u can get away with not spending money???? u have to collect all 350 on 1 character then upgrade it.... after upgrading it then it becomes untradeable... NCSoft isnt stupid, so dont try to assume they are.

Oh yeah, they may changed it for current event so players are not making multiple 8 ap gems, but anyway we get those 5 ap gems from multiple previus events. vipercap/merchant/spin event?

[Meginb]

Or they, you know, could skip the stupid 5 ap gem and have the 8 ap one for 200 snowflakes since they're already dangling it over our heads... we're already sacrificing any fun from the event by going for actual upgrades and ignoring the other asthetic junk. Oh, and they still have those stupid, 12 days of wonder bundles that'll have snowflakes in them, more pay2win, also rng, because we love that.