Can a summoner have the same DPS as FM or WL?

[iokunn]

My question is:

 

Is it possible for a summoner 750 ap have the same or at least almost the same DPS as FM or WL? what do u think based in your experience ^_^

 

And if is not do u think the gap between the DPS for the three classes with the same AP would be huge?

 

Thanks ^_^

[Zedonia]

Speaking only from experience (what i have seen so far): no, at least not with our current gear

 

It's not like they are much weaker but they are weaker. With a WL in the group FM wins anyway. WL wins solo anyway but soulburn vs. no soulburn cant be compared.

[Alysha Hawkeye]

Same gear is not enough. You must be also same ping to compare.

 

Without elemental gear and proper legendary weapon, and with the damage nerf, Summoner lags behind FM and WL.

[Skynemis953]

No, not even close.

 

[Windy]

No,the nerf is real.Thats why few fellow summoners re roll to WL for now.

[Southwind]

So You want to keep all the benefits that summoner class provide, and additionaly You want same pve dps as FM? Fair enough...

 

Maybe you want soulburn, and spin to win as well? It would be nice cause summoners has very hard time now, just look at rankings, how underpopulated they are : (

[RuneKey]

there is many things i would wanna ask e.e

but are we talking on general/pvp/pve ? or just arena ?

might wanna point out that we were never a 'dps class' to begin with

 

[Grimoir]

21 minutes ago, Southwind said:

So You want to keep all the benefits that summoner class provide, and additionaly You want same pve dps as FM? Fair enough...

 

Maybe you want soulburn, and spin to win as well? It would be nice cause summoners has very hard time now, just look at rankings, how underpopulated they are : (

That isnt the point.

 

Point is the NA / EU players are just whiny and crybabies when it comes to summoners. "Bainless class" , "just rmb spam" etc...

Yet here we are having BM's just using dragontongue 100-0 players, or warlocks with their skills piercing parry / block, BD's with their restraint reset and no one complains.

 

People just rather shout nerf than getting good at their class, and this will always be a problem. And before people shout "summoner is a support class and shouldnt have high dps", no its not a support class, the same as warlock or assasin / kfm with their party buffs.

 

[Charas Blade]

11 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

People just rather shout nerf than getting good at their class, and this will always be a problem. And before people shout "summoner is a support class and shouldnt have high dps", no its not a support class, the same as warlock or assasin / kfm with their party buffs.

Alright give FM same amount of CC , without loosing theirs dps

[RuneKey]

37 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

 

 

People just rather shout nerf than getting good at their class, and this will always be a problem. And before people shout "summoner is a support class and shouldnt have high dps", no its not a support class, the same as warlock or assasin / kfm with their party buffs.

 

game creation guide says summoner is a support class x'D wat ? neways i agree with you. i meet tons of summoners on my wl/fm who don't even spam group heal or know what they are doing x'D

oh and good news not 2 patches from now dt of bm gets nerf x'D

24 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

Alright give FM same amount of CC , without loosing theirs dps

dude if you wanna actually compare summoner vs fm burst even in cc..be my guest .

a 550 ap fm gets credit in ssp with 2 buttons press. and last i checked sm and fm has equal number of cc. our cat contributes lil to no damage and is actually pure utility in pve  except the  grab debuff.

still for a constructive discussion i would say in pve sm dps is okish...if we do not compare it with wl buffed dps.

i have played sm for like 10months now i think.its pretty much same to me when it comes to same old dungeons ,nerf or not.

i would still like to question the meaning of the thread going to ?:( when we all know that devs want sm to go more and more into 'support play'

then again if we wanna bring out the finer points of a sm main player i would want to point out how we can do most solo dungeons with 500 ap ty to our heal 8D

 

[Grimoir]

17 minutes ago, RuneKey said:

game creation guide says summoner is a support class x'D wat ? neways i agree with you. i meet tons of summoners on my wl/fm who don't even spam group heal or know what they are doing x'D

oh and good news not 2 patches from now dt of bm gets nerf x'D

dude if you wanna actually compare summoner vs fm burst even in cc..be my guest .

a 550 ap fm gets credit in ssp with 2 buttons press. and last i checked sm and fm has equal number of cc. our cat contributes lil to no damage and is actually pure utility in pve  except the  grab debuff.

still for a constructive discussion i would say in pve sm dps is okish...if we do not compare it with wl buffed dps.

i have played sm for like 10months now i think.its pretty much same to me when it comes to same old dungeons ,nerf or not.

i would still like to question the meaning of the thread going to ?:( when we all know that devs want sm to go more and more into 'support play'

then again if we wanna bring out the finer points of a sm main player i would want to point out how we can do most solo dungeons with 500 ap ty to our heal 8D

 

Sorry to burst the bubble but that heal is for summoner aswel. I will not use the party heal because someone cant iframe / dodge or knows mechanics just to save him and then be in trouble when it actually is needed. Spamming the heal over and over is retarded aswel. wish they left it with doom and bloom like it was before.

 

As for the CC part, give my summoner the cc's all other classes have and escapes and you can remove the cat, i dont mind.

And if the devs plan to make summ a more support class, sure but then remove the buffs from KFM / Sin / WL and give them to the summoner for the party cause you know...support. A party heal is far from making a  class support. 

[Zedonia]

40 minutes ago, RuneKey said:

last i checked sm and fm has equal number of cc

When did you checked that? Before the game was released maybe? Sorry but this is just nonsense.

[Kisagii]

Ok here is something I know by experience. Can summoners reach dps like FMs? With our current gear, no. Later gear it will be close but it won't be the same.

 

For WLs if they are in the same party summoners will out dps them. If solo the WL wins.

 

Wind build is what you need to use for good dps on summoner. Using earth build is for tanking imo that's the reason why it doesn't do too much. With our current stuff we will not be able to use wind build fully, but once we get the items we need it will be really good.

[Charas Blade]

1 hour ago, RuneKey said:

dude if you wanna actually compare summoner vs fm burst even in cc..be my guest .

You didn't get , sm can do CC and dmg, meanwhile if you put FM on CC build you dps suffers a lot talking about cc

SM can stun, 2 times KD and daze on top of that you have 4s immunity with possibility of movement and heal and spam sunflower all day long

FM can stun, daze, kd or daze or 2x air combo, 2ximmune without possibility to move, 1x freeze on Z, and stun on 1 (if target have cold applied) our dps with that is shit.

 

Last time I check ToI SM was almost 20f higher than FM and you want FM damage

[Shukran]

i really hope not.

[Grimoir]

13 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

You didn't get , sm can do CC and dmg, meanwhile if you put FM on CC build you dps suffers a lot talking about cc

SM can stun, 2 times KD and daze on top of that you have 4s immunity with possibility of movement and heal and spam sunflower all day long

FM can stun, daze, kd or daze or 2x air combo, 2ximmune without possibility to move, 1x freeze on Z, and stun on 1 (if target have cold applied) our dps with that is shit.

 

Last time I check ToI SM was almost 20f higher than FM and you want FM damage

And an assasin can stun, kd, immobilize (bind), stealth almost 100% of the time, multiple escapes and does higher damage than a summ....

 

your point is?

[821031_1452549945]

can destro get same dps as fm too plz 8D 

[Kisagii]

31 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

You didn't get , sm can do CC and dmg, meanwhile if you put FM on CC build you dps suffers a lot talking about cc

SM can stun, 2 times KD and daze on top of that you have 4s immunity with possibility of movement and heal and spam sunflower all day long

FM can stun, daze, kd or daze or 2x air combo, 2ximmune without possibility to move, 1x freeze on Z, and stun on 1 (if target have cold applied) our dps with that is shit.

 

Last time I check ToI SM was almost 20f higher than FM and you want FM damage

A summoner using earth build will not have a high dps. If a summoner spec to double daze then they will lose potential dmg they could be doing since you are stacking for dmg on your 2 adding with your 1. If you really want to compare dps then compare it with the more efficient wind build that not much any summoners use even though it is stronger. Also the mobility compared to other classes is quite slow. Compared to other classes you want to get to one side to another to attack a boss the summoner will always be the last one to get there.

[Grimoir]

1 hour ago, Kisagii said:

A summoner using earth build will not have a high dps. If a summoner spec to double daze then they will lose potential dmg they could be doing since you are stacking for dmg on your 2 adding with your 1. If you really want to compare dps then compare it with the more efficient wind build that not much any summoners use even though it is stronger. Also the mobility compared to other classes is quite slow. Compared to other classes you want to get to one side to another to attack a boss the summoner will always be the last one to get there.

Actually, from personal experience, in Yeti:

 

Earth build (sunflower) = 24k dps

Wind build (bees) = 18k dps

 

Soo....and i do know how to use bees

[MorganClaus]

well, if you want to increase them  DPS so then slice them a HEAL %  and Hide and shields. . as a result we have enime as the knife. DPS as the Warlock and shield as the BM. wonderful.

[RainbowDashie]

1 hour ago, Grimoir said:

Actually, from personal experience, in Yeti:

 

Earth build (sunflower) = 24k dps

Wind build (bees) = 18k dps

 

Soo....and i do know how to use bees

dont discuss about build with him, he also said that he will provide a bee build and some bee testings that will proof that bees > sunflower. Still nothing from him.

[Charas Blade]

2 hours ago, Grimoir said:

And an assasin can stun, kd, immobilize (bind), stealth almost 100% of the time, multiple escapes and does higher damage than a summ....

 

your point is?

He is melee?

 

2 hours ago, Kisagii said:

A summoner using earth build will not have a high dps. If a summoner spec to double daze then they will lose potential dmg they could be doing since you are stacking for dmg on your 2 adding with your 1. If you really want to compare dps then compare it with the more efficient wind build that not much any summoners use even though it is stronger. Also the mobility compared to other classes is quite slow. Compared to other classes you want to get to one side to another to attack a boss the summoner will always be the last one to get there.

damn man whole DPS of is 2 blazing beam, which considered glass canon build, we don't use in PVP , neither in ToI in most cases. Meanwhile sm can spam his lmb/rmb he doesn't care about CC almost and have tons of CC, heal and hide. You say you loose dmg? But hey FM loose like 70% of theirs dmg in CC build SM maybe 30%. One more thing your 3 have less cd than veil. 

 

If you want FM dps give us hide and heal, because why not :)

[Grimoir]

10 minutes ago, RainbowDashie said:

dont discuss about build with him, he also said that he will provide a bee build and some bee testings that will proof that bees > sunflower. Still nothing from him.

started it but never finished they screwed bees over with the skill change. >.< honestly sunflower is better now imo.

[Sayk]

1 hour ago, Grimoir said:

started it but never finished they screwed bees over with the skill change. >.< honestly sunflower is better now imo.

It always was. :))

[RuneKey]

5 hours ago, Zedonia said:

When did you checked that? Before the game was released maybe? Sorry but this is just nonsense.

want me to literally list number of cc of sm = number of cc for fm. ?.____.

5 hours ago, Kisagii said:

Ok here is something I know by experience. Can summoners reach dps like FMs? With our current gear, no. Later gear it will be close but it won't be the same.For WLs if they are in the same party summoners will out dps them. If solo the WL winsWind build is what you need to use for good dps on summoner. Using earth build is for tanking imo that's the reason why it doesn't do too much. With our current stuff we will not be able to use wind build fully, but once we get the items we need it will be really good.

k ,just wanna quote a friend here to point out that this whole element thing earth-wind is late game...super late game .to which you have alternative paths .so anybody comparing  our rmb  spam as earth/wind build right atm without the golden /combined amulet for element (only speaking about sm ele trees) is horribly wrong e.e. 

 just in general wanna point out  i too really squeeze dps  in big dungeons where turtles/ebon etc...where only dps  matter. i use non cc build then . where does my hard work dps go vs a wl or fm ? will it rise in future ? no :/  

mind you we have to look at this from a perspective not just ToI,Mushin General Pve/Pvp but average. so that stage is yet to be reached. talking about earth wind build right now is  e.e"

 

 

2 hours ago, Charas Blade said:

If you want FM dps give us hide and heal, because why not :)

k gimme chi bomb :'( take em heals if you dont already have enough from veil and armor e.e