Dragoncall better then Helix or is it me?

[Tavirez]

I started using helix since I heard it's all around better and I see why, however I have started using dragoncall since I just think its more fun and cooler looking and I can keep up with a lot of parties in dps. So I was just wondering IS dragoncall lesser, equal, or better in dps versus helix? 

With helix I get around...8k damage in 4 mans while with dragoncall I get 10-11k. I could be messing up helix rotation or it could be because I don't have HM Volley, I dont know.

I'm not really good at talking but:

Build: https://bnstree.com/tree/WL?b=rJqBYl_Zx

I have 574 ap, 55% crit rate, 114% acc. I don't know what else yall need

[Drizzt Dudden]

First of all, with lastest sb and awaken skill changes dragoncall became significantly stronger than it was before. In overall dps both builds are quite similar in terms of dps, i would say in perfect conditions helix is mby 10-20% stronger, but you need to have hm rmb skill, good fps and ping, to achive that. Not mentioning dv + helix build is much harder to use, and master. And second thing is this build have different characteristics. Dragoncall is more bursty build, with hudge burst while sb and siphoned status, and doing little dmg between them. Helix has more sustainable dmg. Also you will get much more dps on dragoncall when the fight is short (below 1 min). Also due to the fact dragoncall is giving you 25% crit rate for 5s on hit it will help to boost your dps, even though 55% is not that bad. But ya, helix is overall stronger, especially with green badge giving helix warlocks hudge buffs when siphoned ( it is in fact almost as good as sb for us)

[DoubleV]

Why do you need good ping for Helix ? are you sure is not the other way around ? just asking 

[Drizzt Dudden]

 dv/Helix is much more ping/fps dependent, cos you have to constantly spam 4f during wingstorm, and also use volley/salvo+ mantra when you are not spamming 4f. And when you have bad ping, its hard to hit volley-->salvo timings correctly, and its essential for your dps outside soulburn.

[Twinmage]

On 11/15/2016 at 8:52 PM, Tavirez said:

I started using helix since I heard it's all around better and I see why, however I have started using dragoncall since I just think its more fun and cooler looking and I can keep up with a lot of parties in dps. So I was just wondering IS dragoncall lesser, equal, or better in dps versus helix? 

With helix I get around...8k damage in 4 mans while with dragoncall I get 10-11k. I could be messing up helix rotation or it could be because I don't have HM Volley, I dont know.

I'm not really good at talking but:

Build: https://bnstree.com/tree/WL?b=rJqBYl_Zx

I have 574 ap, 55% crit rate, 114% acc. I don't know what else yall need

if u can master dragon call build then its better to me i love my helix build an i think its better over call but ever one as there fav

[Kisagii]

For dragoncall it relies on your crit and crit dmg. Also it is better than helix if you do not have the badge. The later badge we receive soon will be one that will boost the frost build making frost stronger than shadow. Though as of now you should really be using helix if you have the badge for it.

[Fieryfly]

I found, being a brand new Warlock to the game, after obtaining 2 unlocked warlock skill techniques and with a new Level 1 Baleful.. Helix.. is more dps.. a little over the Dragoncall skill. seems to me Dragoncall while cool to watch.. takes a few seconds to launch, even tho a crit can give me a second volley, I have not noticed if a critical hit does the same or not. Although I have not checked the dps since I got a ruby off trove. +3 crit & 10 AP gem. The gem was kinda explained to me.. I think the way I understand it, when my weapon increases past level 7 and my crit % is much higher.. around 58-60% having the ruby will become useless, as the chance from crits also raises. For now my DPS has climbed significantly.

My ping never drops, although my fps can drop to 55-65 in Desolate Tomb, it usually hovers around 85-90 in MSP during the turtle battles.

[Sneeky]

Having used both and taking advice from fellow WL's, I chose DH over DC.  It also depends on Ping, I have a 12ms ping so I can spam my DH rather quickly. It more than

makes up for the lower damage, because I can spam it 3 times faster than DC.  Not to mention in pvp it is a lot better because DH doesn't take forever to hit like DC does.

With the new skills coming on April 12th all bets are off, until we can figure things out.

[Terminek]

My ping is around 20-30ms. And from when im using 5ss from bt 3 dt, new magnum badge dc win in pve. I can easily outdps helix users with same gear lvl. Even if dc dont hit like helix but do almost 2x more dmg and with those ss and badge you can spam dc almost like helix. I use leg seraph stg8. But in pvp only helix. Maybe  after new patch this will change. 

[Sneeky]

Thanks for the tip Terminek, always looking to improve.

 

[Sacro]

Helix was always better, but takes a lot to master the rotations since they're more flexible and you'll be moving around a lot. Helix badge, "the siphon duration on F" badge (need that mix item that apparently is coming soon) and mystic Salvo badge will make it easier to keep putting out damage. Ice might beat a shadow WL the first minute of casting, but cant keep up when their spam window is over.

Also ice wl has to stand still and spam to be effective. Running around lowers their DPS so much theyre barely worth playing at all. Shadow is mobile always, and can always adjust.

[slowcow]

1 hour ago, Sacro said:

. Ice might beat a shadow WL the first minute of casting, but cant keep up when their spam window is over.

Also ice wl has to stand still and spam to be effective. Running around lowers their DPS so much theyre barely worth playing at all. Shadow is mobile always, and can always adjust.

This is only true for new and undergeared players.

 

I don't know what is this bollocks that people say ice can't move around or if they do they lose dps. It's bull. Ice can move around JUST as much as shadow WL and not lose any DPS ... those who can't, they probably have only 2 fingers.

 

Also ice with decent gear and player who knows what to do will never lose their spam. Ice has leech cooldown reduction from dragoncall, a good warlock will spam so much dragoncall that they have basically infinity siphon. Whereas shadow does not have that (yet - however it's implemented in KR since their last patch), meaning it's shadow who can burst the 12 seconds of siphon duration and then have to wait till siphon gets off cooldown.

 

Ice takes alot of gear to be effective, but is better in terms of DPS and burst, but also boring due to its slow nature. Also ice is so easy to play, just press 3 buttons (RMB+4 and "2" occasionally when it's off cooldown), shadow takes little more practice and timing (especially getting that salvo out), but is also much more fun IMO.

[Sacro]

40 minutes ago, slowcow said:

40 minutes ago, slowcow said:

This is only true for new and undergeared players.

 

I don't know what is this bollocks that people say ice can't move around or if they do they lose dps. It's bull. Ice can move around JUST as much as shadow WL and not lose any DPS ... those who can't, they probably have only 2 fingers.

 

Also ice with decent gear and player who knows what to do will never lose their spam. Ice has leech cooldown reduction from dragoncall, a good warlock will spam so much dragoncall that they have basically infinity siphon. Whereas shadow does not have that (yet - however it's implemented in KR since their last patch), meaning it's shadow who can burst the 12 seconds of siphon duration and then have to wait till siphon gets off cooldown.

 

Ice takes alot of gear to be effective, but is better in terms of DPS and burst, but also boring due to its slow nature. Also ice is so easy to play, just press 3 buttons (RMB+4 and "2" occasionally when it's off cooldown), shadow takes little more practice and timing (especially getting that salvo out), but is also much more fun IMO.

ow takes little more practice and timing (especially getting that salvo out), but is also much more fun IMO.

40 minutes ago, slowcow said:

 

You'll always end up with a pause for about 6 seconds with ice. Dark still has its rotation that will do good damage in the periods you are referring to. Also with the new leech badge merged with helix shadow build will basically use leech, then RMB -> 4 -> RMB -> 4 -> F infinite. The breaks will be for SB, which will lead straight back to Leech and over agian. Bombardment, even when insta-casted will still stop you when you're moving. This makes it very ineffective to move around and use bombardment since you get that twitch. It might not be more than 0,1 sec, but that stutter i your moving will mess with you and thus affect your overall dps.

As long as you can rotate properly with dark, the only periods you'll be standing still is when you summon thrall and cast wingstorm when its not on insta-cast/using 3 to instacast wingstorm. You dont have the same stutters and you can aaaaaalways move around no matter what. You can say whatever you want about ice. Ive been there and believed different. Then I switched and decided to learn how to play dark. Theres absolutely no doubt dark is stronger overall. If your dps is higher with ice, its simply cause youre not good with shadow.

[Kisagii]

21 hours ago, Sacro said:

You'll always end up with a pause for about 6 seconds with ice. Dark still has its rotation that will do good damage in the periods you are referring to. Also with the new leech badge merged with helix shadow build will basically use leech, then RMB -> 4 -> RMB -> 4 -> F infinite. The breaks will be for SB, which will lead straight back to Leech and over agian. Bombardment, even when insta-casted will still stop you when you're moving. This makes it very ineffective to move around and use bombardment since you get that twitch. It might not be more than 0,1 sec, but that stutter i your moving will mess with you and thus affect your overall dps.

As long as you can rotate properly with dark, the only periods you'll be standing still is when you summon thrall and cast wingstorm when its not on insta-cast/using 3 to instacast wingstorm. You dont have the same stutters and you can aaaaaalways move around no matter what. You can say whatever you want about ice. Ive been there and believed different. Then I switched and decided to learn how to play dark. Theres absolutely no doubt dark is stronger overall. If your dps is higher with ice, its simply cause youre not good with shadow.

Actually I move a lot with ice build and do tons of dps. The only time I stop is if I use imprison and that's it. If shadow is doing more dps than ice then that means you don't have the gear needed for ice or your rotation is wrong. 

[Sacro]

8 hours ago, Kisagii said:

Actually I move a lot with ice build and do tons of dps. The only time I stop is if I use imprison and that's it. If shadow is doing more dps than ice then that means you don't have the gear needed for ice or your rotation is wrong. 

If you're moving around you're not using Bombardment and that's fine either way. You can switch pos, then spam some more, then switch pos and spam more. You can never move around when you use Bombardment and Dragoncall. And the little you do move around is also very predictable which makes ice useless in PvP. Whatever it is you're feeling you're doing, you clearly haven't tried the other. Proper shadow rotations will both outmaneuver you and outdps you. You simply have to find comfort in the fact that not a lot of shadow WLs can do this properly for a various number of reasons. In the end, it's a game meant to be enjoyed. If doing less damage with a build that's easier to use puts you down, perhaps you should look into the reasons you play this game in the first place instead of claiming things that simply aren't true. Whatever you're struggling with, shadow will always be stronger and enabling you to move around properly. Doesn't mean you have to play shadow nor that you can't enjoy ice. Relax and enjoy the game :)

[Terminek]

Whats your gear to have so great Shadow dps?

[Kisagii]

On 5/1/2017 at 2:18 PM, Sacro said:

If you're moving around you're not using Bombardment and that's fine either way. You can switch pos, then spam some more, then switch pos and spam more. You can never move around when you use Bombardment and Dragoncall. And the little you do move around is also very predictable which makes ice useless in PvP. Whatever it is you're feeling you're doing, you clearly haven't tried the other. Proper shadow rotations will both outmaneuver you and outdps you. You simply have to find comfort in the fact that not a lot of shadow WLs can do this properly for a various number of reasons. In the end, it's a game meant to be enjoyed. If doing less damage with a build that's easier to use puts you down, perhaps you should look into the reasons you play this game in the first place instead of claiming things that simply aren't true. Whatever you're struggling with, shadow will always be stronger and enabling you to move around properly. Doesn't mean you have to play shadow nor that you can't enjoy ice. Relax and enjoy the game :)

How in the right mind do you think that you can't use both bombardment and dragoncall at the same time while moving? Bombardament becomes an instant cast when the enemy is targeted and how do you do that? Well there are several ways. 

One of them is soul shackle in which you spam since dragoncall reduces the cd on every hit and another is rupture in which you use for focus. If you are not able to have anything targeted in frost build then you are doing something wrong or have extremely high ping which makes playing the class unplayable. 

Also if you really don't think people move in frost build then you also obviously don't know the class well.

 

 

 

[Carloskee]

that guy who said you cant move while spamming DC and Bombardment (ice build) doesn't really know how to play frost build... maybe he doesn't know how debuffs work which makes WL a very powerful class. The way he speaks seems his confident about what he is saying... Troll... XD