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BlinkMoth

Do you feel people should be responsible for this?

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So I was in yeti and people were calling some other guy a noob for not sheathing during yeti's jumping attack (the one where he jumps and smashes the ground).  about 3 of them also blamed him for not sheathing during the beginning of the ice phase (where he freezes once and jumps).  His argument was that it is an easy iframe.  They shouldn't rely on him to save them.  Do you guys agree with this?  Disagree?

 

Since I was in the party I was one of the people who didn't die.  I'm sure ever class has iframes (at least 3?) so I don't blame the FM.

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Kisagii   

Well it is easy to iframe so I don't blame them. If you have a summoner or sin then they can also help, but other than that you shouldn't really be blaming anyone on such easy dungeons.

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Zerecas   

The only phrase where FM should really sheath or obliged to do so is during the 8 Ice Cruxes phrase, the rest is optional.

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Save the party > Save yourself, as a successful run is better than failed one.

 

When I run a dungeon, I will keep party member alive as long as possible. It is not about saving other people's hides , but about ensuring myself not being frustrated at the bickering that happens when wipe.

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leaches   

it is common expectation for FM to sheath during jumping phase, although nowadays as an FM i have to make a calculated decision. since i (and most) prefer to cast it on the beginning ice phase, i might not cast it during heat phase coz sometimes yeti skips one or several heat phase/s (or not) depending on party DPS. also if other pt members see boss HP draining too quickly they assume that FM will save sheath for ice phase and use their own iframes during heat.

 

However, it is almost always expected that the beginning ice phase is sheathed but even with this players still use self iframes.

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During Ice Phase, mostly use iframe ownskill (especially BM have more ^.^). So the next phase can do the ice sheath or hm block.

 

Unless there are 2 FMs. Just to secure the party. As 4 man usually people more pro on iframes, without depending sheath or hmblock.

Edited by Jack Valent

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lol if there is no comunication of roles on the dg and everyone just push and try to go fast it means take care of yourselves cause yeti is the easiest silverfrost dg since nerf... and I hated it cause all mats from it gone down...

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kytt   

6 man PUGs shouldn't need an FM to ice sheath every phase.

 

The "FM sheath everything" meta comes from old guides and walkthroughs which pushed this custom and that was fine when the player base was not overgeared, over leveled, and there were fewer party protect skills.

 

But now more classes have party protects which allow the party to resist dmg AND continue DPS. FM sheath is the only party protect which stops party DPS yet many still expect it for simple iframes. Just stop. Let FM save sheath for cruxes (and "pound" mechanics in other bosses) and use your own abilities for simple dodges. Or pay up for blood and eat the damage if you can't or won't iframe. Start asking sums, BMs, and sins to use THEIR party protects which let the party keep up DPS and doesn't mess up rotations the way a sudden freeze can.

 

I'm just gonna toss this in for people who have not played FM: sheath is same key bind as meteor. It's common to see an FM sheath then drop meteor right after which is sign sheath was probably mistake. High ping and lag makes it easy to wrong stance that command. Worse, sheath has 30 sec. CD and shares CD with all FMs. These things make sheath untrustworthy, esp in a PUG. There was a time when ice sheath was best protect the game offered. That time is long gone. Now it's really just useful for long duration protects like cruxes, pounds, ect.

 

And please don't whine at an FM for not using it for every phase in an overgeared PUG run which never got near to cruxes (yeah, seen that rudeness a few times). Lots of players want to just blast DPS through dungeons and bosses and ignore the old mechanics but somehow, in Yeti, FMs are expected to play the old way. Why?

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Under 550: assume FM doesn't necessarily know how to freeze.
Above 600 AP in 6-man: assume FM doesn't know even how to use his char.
Above 550 in 4-man: assume you are pro enough and don't need to depend on sheathing.

In any scenario don't depend on the FM's sheathing. If you cannot do the dungeon without having FM as safety blanket the player definitely needs to sit down and check out his skills. Not all FMs can or will do sheathing due to either not knowing how to do it or due to high ping.

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Nattia   

I don't like when people are sheating or seed shrouding the jumps. it's so easy, save that for the ice cruxes (sheath).

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8 hours ago, Nattia said:

I don't like when people are sheating or seed shrouding the jumps. it's so easy, save that for the ice cruxes (sheath).

 

I got screwed over today by a fm's shealth.  I donno why they didn't armor first.  He/She wiped the party cause they screwed the BMs iframes.

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Tairanna   

Eh I don't ever rely on other peoples party Iframe to get me through yeti especially FM's Ice Sheathe since it can really screw a party and IMO should only be used in the end if you need to dodge some cruxes. 

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Personally I think FMs use sheath too damn often... especially when I'm on destroyer and pop Fury or Typhoon... *freeze* ...thanks...

 

or warlock, pop leech... *freeze*

Edited by ander01se

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Raizou   
50 minutes ago, ander01se said:

or warlock, pop leech... *freeze

or summoner, while reviving cat....*freeze*

Edited by Raizou

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Shadovvv   

Everyone should be focusing on keeping themselves in tip-top shape. That said, the FM/BM/BD/Sin/Sum should make every attempt to keep their party members alive, as what good is DPS when over half the party is dead? I mean, take a look at Lord of the Flame's 41 million HP, there's no way one person can handle all that on their own.

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As a lock ive learned how to survive rhe jumps in most cases... the o ly time i like the freeze is when im on cooldown or accidently mess up timing (i.e no stun or push the button too soon) if a lock can survive it in sure other classes can too...

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No person should solely take blame. Anything before 8-ice part phase is hilairously easy to iframe, and if you can't do it, don't run dungeons in 4m, especially not harder ones, you're just a nuisance.

 

If he didn't sheath during 8-ice part, okay. Some other classes can protect party as well. I'm a BM myself and I iframe icicles and HM block the jump (or if nobody stuns the yeti during heat, I'll just use it 0.5 sec before we get frozen).

 

Only reason why he should save party is if these two conditions are met:

a) not enough dps to burn him before 8 icicle phase

b) no other party member is able to save

 

If they blamed him, it just means they're bad enough and they need to save their e-peen and self confidence.

21 hours ago, BlinkMoth said:

I got screwed over today by a fm's shealth.  I donno why they didn't armor first.  He/She wiped the party cause they screwed the BMs iframes.

So much this. I farm yeti 4m with my friends sometimes because most are undergeared for ebon/deso 6m, and we want some free and fast gold.

 

Two FMs from my party learned one thing from me, never use V during Yeti fight. One of them is pretty good so we can rely on him for cruxes, and I learned to count (lol), so I use it at same time as him instead of waiting for all 8 of them, just for lulz.

Edited by Arcadeath

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Both sides were equally at fault. If those people don't know how to iframe, then they are a hypocrite for calling the FM a noob. That FM looked like a crappy player, though. S/he hould have at least showed some humility instead of giving attitude.

 

I'd sheath anyways, because anyone could miss iframe because of lag or brainfart.

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Shadovvv   
On 11/12/2016 at 5:15 PM, Kisagii said:

Well it is easy to iframe so I don't blame them.

On 11/13/2016 at 6:08 AM, Arcadeath said:

 Anything before 8-ice part phase is hilairously easy to iframe

On 11/13/2016 at 11:20 AM, gaiachaos said:

Both sides were equally at fault. If those people don't know how to iframe

I'd sheath anyways, because anyone could miss iframe because of lag or brainfart.

"I LAGGED. MY PING/FPS SUCKS. PACKET DROPS. FM/SUM/WL ROOT THREW ME OFF. ETC."

 

I know how to iframe cruxes and stealth Zakhan on reflex. But despite that I can still lag and that screws things over, and it's not entirely my fault because of that.

Edited by Shadovvv

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hwalien   

I've even seen ppl failing CC(someone used knock back) and blaming FM for not using sheath.

Really? all 6 ppl are frozen way before aoe but you died because FM is noob?

even if the CC had been used correctly, you still can't blame FM.

besides, if you haven't learned how to use your iframe by Yeti, don't even join any group for harder instance cus your just asking for carry.

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25 minutes ago, hwalien said:

I've even seen ppl failing CC(someone used knock back) and blaming FM for not using sheath.

Really? all 6 ppl are frozen way before aoe but you died because FM is noob?

even if the CC had been used correctly, you still can't blame FM.

besides, if you haven't learned how to use your iframe by Yeti, don't even join any group for harder instance cus your just asking for carry.

Also if you fail cc at this point fm's sheath won't save you from the jump. People still end up getting killed. Only way to survive that is if you have 5 second iframe skill like bm's hm block then you can survive or class specific iframes like Summoner's True Friend, WL's Bastion or BD's Guardian Tempest. The iframe needs to be used when the timer for getting frozen is at 1 second.

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Arken   

 

On 13/11/2016 at 0:10 AM, RyuueLaview said:

I say that they dont need to rely on the fm. thats just kinda lazy. thats not how the dungeon was designed. ebon is a diff story

In a perfect scenario you wouldn't need any protection from your party member at any rate, and I'm saying that is true for ANY dungeon.

We know, thou, that a perfect scenario never happens, specialy cuz we're not as good as we think we are to beging with. Aside that players can lag, can have ping problems, pc performance problems, can be new to the instance, can be new to his role (since you can solo most of the game, you can't really expect people to know how to play in a group), or they can simply mess it up. And those are only the obvious reasons.

 

Having said that, forcing a party member to perform a task by calling him names is hardly eficient. If he knows how to use the skill, and his party is needing it, why not use? cuz he wanted to prove a point? ... completing the dungeon, is more important than trying to give his group a lesson (that he may failed to understand as well) or show how good you are / should be without any support of your party.

 

In OP's case, both side were wrong. the group demanding something in the stupidest way possible (by blaming him for any outcome), and the FM for not supporting his group when they needed (cuz they called him a noob and he wanted to prove they weren't the pros they think they are)

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xNina   

Blame why? You should know you need to iframe that part, that sheath just dps lost or combo interrup for me.

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