zub

Destroyers need some lovin too

Recommended Posts

Valiant   

I love how we supposed to be a punching Class , Now every class punch us when we use our escape in pvp

Like see how summoner or SF or BM or KFM with fighting spirit or warlock able to do to you once you use your escape, Just instance 6 second 100-0 while you mostly are punched to use Blue buff instead of your fury 100-0 so you escape their power wrath 

 

While on other hand, We need to gave up 1 stun cc to use shield to protect ourself since we got no immune, people cry about our spin2win while no cry about how KFM and FM got endless counter that can';t be broken and use no focus

No one cry about how BM block require no focus and still so good

Idk what is wrong with people crying about spin2win, For real I will just quit this game cause all the hate and cancer they gave to Destroyer, I feel useless in pve and more angry in pvp cause of this unbalanced classes 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Valiant said:

I love how we supposed to be a punching Class , Now every class punch us when we use our escape in pvp

Like see how summoner or SF or BM or KFM with fighting spirit or warlock able to do to you once you use your escape, Just instance 6 second 100-0 while you mostly are punched to use Blue buff instead of your fury 100-0 so you escape their power wrath 

 

While on other hand, We need to gave up 1 stun cc to use shield to protect ourself since we got no immune, people cry about our spin2win while no cry about how KFM and FM got endless counter that can';t be broken and use no focus

No one cry about how BM block require no focus and still so good

Idk what is wrong with people crying about spin2win, For real I will just quit this game cause all the hate and cancer they gave to Destroyer, I feel useless in pve and more angry in pvp cause of this unbalanced classes 

maybe you should just practise more instead of sitting on forum each day and whine about your class? our counter as kfm.. nearly all classes can break it. and yeah in 6vs6, you wanna now why we have endless iframes? cause people just smashing their keyboard and spamming skills into our counter;D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree, I don't see a serious issue with des in equalized arena. The only *bad* aspect of des pvp is 6v6 where their grab is so damn inferior to BDs grip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Valiant   
5 hours ago, 882184_1452550488 said:

maybe you should just practise more instead of sitting on forum each day and whine about your class? our counter as kfm.. nearly all classes can break it. and yeah in 6vs6, you wanna now why we have endless iframes? cause people just smashing their keyboard and spamming skills into our counter;D

I don't talk about 6v6, I know dumb people keep hitting into your Iframe like so bad but you with your endless counter is pain for us

 

And I don't think all classes counter you, You can deal well with Destroyer, Summoner, warlock and FM, Maybe BD, BM, SF and assassin (Ofcourse the class that is counterd only by summoner or FM ) are taking over you cause they are so powerful right now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Valiant said:

I don't talk about 6v6, I know dumb people keep hitting into your Iframe like so bad but you with your endless counter is pain for us

 

And I don't think all classes counter you, You can deal well with Destroyer, Summoner, warlock and FM, Maybe BD, BM, SF and assassin (Ofcourse the class that is counterd only by summoner or FM ) are taking over you cause they are so powerful right now

If you spec Hurricane Stage 3, KFM will not be able to use their counter endlessly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My personal fixes for Destroyer Damage that everyone should be happy with.

 

Allow Long Division use when wedge is not usable (so we dont sac our damage simply to grab, and would keep use from 100-0 people during a 6sec grab)

Change Tier 5 stage 4 Emberstomp to party iframe which lasts as long as BM party iframe

Add Max Speed to Eradicate Tier3 stage 4 (so shadow spec is viable)

Allow willpower to actually increase our damage inline with increasing our focus pool. 

Reduce the CD of Smash Tier 4 Stage 1 to 30sec

Increase the duration of Fury to 8 seconds

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Valiant   
22 hours ago, SoulsHunter said:

If you spec Hurricane Stage 3, KFM will not be able to use their counter endlessly.

Still I won't be able to hit them , It just spin and lose for focus 

20 hours ago, Duriensbane said:

My personal fixes for Destroyer Damage that everyone should be happy with.

 

Allow Long Division use when wedge is not usable (so we dont sac our damage simply to grab, and would keep use from 100-0 people during a 6sec grab)

Change Tier 5 stage 4 Emberstomp to party iframe which lasts as long as BM party iframe

Add Max Speed to Eradicate Tier3 stage 4 (so shadow spec is viable)

Allow willpower to actually increase our damage inline with increasing our focus pool. 

Reduce the CD of Smash Tier 4 Stage 1 to 30sec

Increase the duration of Fury to 8 seconds

 

 

Now that what I talking about, If you ask me 

I got only pretty solution for Destroyer in pve and pvp , Just hyper between fury and blue buff

Make it a immune escape skill with high damage effect for 6 second, That way we would make a good berserk class for real like any other game that have berserk.

 

Berserk are meant to be powerful class, That just get out off cc with fury and smash their way through enemy, If they did that and gave us immune for 6 second while able to make high dps, It would balance both pve and pvp for destroyer  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Valiant said:

Still I won't be able to hit them , It just spin and lose for focus 

You only use it if they block endlessly, thus you can stop them for spamming it endlessly, that is the point of speccing it.

 

You are not supposed to use it endlessly yourself -.- unless you are trying to avoid getting CC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Valiant said:

No I talk about something else, I mean what is the point of spin while they spam their counter or block ?

Like they will suddenly just  bounce on me and me is all open for cc, That why I hate that FM and KFM counter since it can;t be bypassed by anything 

If you see them use block, you spin and hit them, KFM will auto parry into your hurricane within 0.5 second and they will be stunned. Thus if you can do this it will make them scared of using their block.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Valiant   
1 hour ago, SoulsHunter said:

You only use it if they block endlessly, thus you can stop them for spamming it endlessly, that is the point of speccing it.

 

You are not supposed to use it endlessly yourself -.- unless you are trying to avoid getting CC.

No I talk about something else, I mean what is the point of spin while they spam their counter or block ?

Like they will suddenly just  bounce on me and me is all open for cc, That why I hate that FM and KFM counter since it can;t be bypassed by anything 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Valiant   
8 minutes ago, SoulsHunter said:

If you see them use block, you spin and hit them, KFM will auto parry into your hurricane within 0.5 second and they will be stunned. Thus if you can do this it will make them scared of using their block.

If they use block, I would be happy cause I got an opener with my kick daze, But what if they use counter ? Would same spin thing work against them ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Valiant   
2 minutes ago, SoulsHunter said:

Yes it works with counter that will auto attack when you hit their counter.

E.g. KFM use their 1 where they raise their hands with circle. You hit them with hurricane they will auto attack you, thus they will get stunned instead.

For Assassin when they use their 2 where they raise their hands, if you hit them they go stealth instead, so using your knee is better than hurricane. Although hurricane can still hit them after they go stealth some assassin will SS after going stealth.

 

 

Does it work with FM counter as well ?

Since both are so annoying for me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Valiant said:

If they use block, I would be happy cause I got an opener with my kick daze, But what if they use counter ? Would same spin thing work against them ?

Yes it works with counter that will auto attack when you hit their counter.

E.g. KFM use their 1 where they raise their hands with circle. You hit them with hurricane they will auto attack you, thus they will get stunned instead.

For Assassin when they use their 2 where they raise their hands, if you hit them they go stealth instead, so using your knee is better than hurricane. Although hurricane can still hit them after they go stealth some assassin will SS after going stealth.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Valiant said:

Does it work with FM counter as well ?

Since both are so annoying for me

It should work in theory, but I have never seen it yet. You need to press hurricane at almost the same time he press 1. So need to predict when he wants to counter you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Valiant   
17 minutes ago, SoulsHunter said:

It should work in theory, but I have never seen it yet. You need to press hurricane at almost the same time he press 1. So need to predict when he wants to counter you.

Most of time, They just spam it

The problem is how to reach them, Most of time FM just freeze the hell out of you or slow you down with chill

But I never thought of that counter them with parry counter before 

 

But I think it will work anyone, KFM and FM counter casting take like 1 second like hurricane which take less than 1 second 

Edited by Valiant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/14/2016 at 10:48 PM, Duriensbane said:

My personal fixes for Destroyer Damage that everyone should be happy with.

 

Allow Long Division use when wedge is not usable (so we dont sac our damage simply to grab, and would keep use from 100-0 people during a 6sec grab)

Change Tier 5 stage 4 Emberstomp to party iframe which lasts as long as BM party iframe

Add Max Speed to Eradicate Tier3 stage 4 (so shadow spec is viable)

Allow willpower to actually increase our damage inline with increasing our focus pool. 

Reduce the CD of Smash Tier 4 Stage 1 to 30sec

Increase the duration of Fury to 8 seconds

 

 

Agreed all above changes need to be added ASAP.

7 hours ago, Valiant said:

Still I won't be able to hit them , It just spin and lose for focus 

Now that what I talking about, If you ask me 

I got only pretty solution for Destroyer in pve and pvp , Just hyper between fury and blue buff

Make it a immune escape skill with high damage effect for 6 second, That way we would make a good berserk class for real like any other game that have berserk.

 

Berserk are meant to be powerful class, That just get out off cc with fury and smash their way through enemy, If they did that and gave us immune for 6 second while able to make high dps, It would balance both pve and pvp for destroyer  

Yeah pls merge Fury and Persistence. No reason to have fury with half defense when no one attacks into it anyways. The only things that do are mobs so it's a gimp in pve.

And yes make it 30s too. however make the stun escape one 60s so it won't be too OP in pvp.

 

On top of this a buff to emberstomp stage 1 and stage 3 is needed. 

Stage 1: Decrease cooldown to 12s. Add +%20 attack Buff to all attacks except +%200 to judgment. Decrease smash cd by 5s for every tick. Bonus damage of smash applies in area.

Stage 3: Buff it to +50% attack buff to wrath, cleave/mighty cleave, eradicate/galeforce, make wrath proc for 8s on successful hit. Decrease cooldown to 16s. No cooldown on galeforce in area. reduces mighty cleave cooldown by 1s for every cleave and wrath in area.

 

Changes like this are necessary so new destroyers can be powerful too, not just a small minority of endgame destroyers decked out in legendary.

I don't see how this is any different from OP skills like FM's burn, BM conflagration, Sum Super sunflower uptime, Sin's heart stab/dark strike combo + damage enhancements with poison (Basically wrath/cleave all the time with fury and emberstomp), and KFM's Searing palm (makes you super saiyan) and comet punch spam. like doing smash 20 times.

Edited by DevilTDriver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Destroyers will not receive any skill changes that would temporary help them while waiting for future content in EU/NA.

It's not going to happen.

End of story.

You're just wasting your time.

 

 

 

One thing they could do however is change the Turtle shield.

As of tomorrow Destroyers are going to fall even more behind other classes as their turtle 3 and 8 piece set bonuses are even better.

A buff to Turtle shield would not change the pvp aspect at all and wouldn't threaten the future balance since it's going to be replaced eventually (by stuff that makes destroyer actually viable).

 

Easy solution requiring so little time investment on developer side that it's not even funny:

 

Turtle 3pc set bonus: From +10% Wrath skill damage          to: +(50% ? 70% ? 100% ?) Wrath skill damage

 

Turtle 8pc set bonus: From [3] cooldown -50%, damage +150%          to: [3] cooldown -50%, damage +(300% ? 500% ?)

 

Establishing proper numbers to get destro up to speed is a question of not even an hour. No triggers are changed, swapping numbers should be a piece of cake.

 

There, destroyer fixed and can patiently await black tower.

 

Buuuuuuut this too will not happen.

Lose all hope, reroll.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Valiant   
2 hours ago, DevilTDriver said:

Agreed all above changes need to be added ASAP.

Yeah pls merge Fury and Persistence. No reason to have fury with half defense when no one attacks into it anyways. The only things that do are mobs so it's a gimp in pve.

And yes make it 30s too. however make the stun escape one 60s so it won't be too OP in pvp.

 

On top of this a buff to emberstomp stage 1 and stage 3 is needed. 

Stage 1: Decrease cooldown to 12s. Add +%20 attack Buff to all attacks except +%200 to judgment. Decrease smash cd by 5s for every tick. Bonus damage of smash applies in area.

Stage 3: Buff it to +50% attack buff to wrath, cleave/mighty cleave, eradicate/galeforce, make wrath proc for 8s on successful hit. Decrease cooldown to 16s. No cooldown on galeforce in area. reduces mighty cleave cooldown by 1s for every cleave and wrath in area.

 

Changes like this are necessary so new destroyers can be powerful too, not just a small minority of endgame destroyers decked out in legendary.

I don't see how this is any different from OP skills like FM's burn, BM conflagration, Sum Super sunflower uptime, Sin's heart stab/dark strike combo + damage enhancements with poison (Basically wrath/cleave all the time with fury and emberstomp), and KFM's Searing palm (makes you super saiyan) and comet punch spam. like doing smash 20 times.

Don't forget , They need to spread the damn Stun shield from protecting shield in other tree, Spread the Knockdown knee from drag tree into another tree, Find a fix for the damn F problem with all skills pushed in it, Like why not move the Might Clevee and Galeforce into RMB ? Like you want to active them once you see anyway ? Right ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/15/2016 at 3:17 AM, GenericNick said:

Destroyers will not receive any skill changes that would temporary help them while waiting for future content in EU/NA.

It's not going to happen.

End of story.

You're just wasting your time.

 

 

 

One thing they could do however is change the Turtle shield.

As of tomorrow Destroyers are going to fall even more behind other classes as their turtle 3 and 8 piece set bonuses are even better.

A buff to Turtle shield would not change the pvp aspect at all and wouldn't threaten the future balance since it's going to be replaced eventually (by stuff that makes destroyer actually viable).

 

Easy solution requiring so little time investment on developer side that it's not even funny:

 

Turtle 3pc set bonus: From +10% Wrath skill damage          to: +(50% ? 70% ? 100% ?) Wrath skill damage

 

Turtle 8pc set bonus: From [3] cooldown -50%, damage +150%          to: [3] cooldown -50%, damage +(300% ? 500% ?)

 

Establishing proper numbers to get destro up to speed is a question of not even an hour. No triggers are changed, swapping numbers should be a piece of cake.

 

There, destroyer fixed and can patiently await black tower.

 

Buuuuuuut this too will not happen.

Lose all hope, reroll.

A buff like that would mean not %50 but %500 on wrath and %1000 on emberstomp because there is so little uptime on those skills.

 

It would make dps really awkward, a destroyer would suddenly pull aggro from a tank cause of the sudden spike of 100k dps a sec then 15k dps from the regular rotation.

You can say it won't happen, but being complacent is exactly how nothing changes. I'll be loud and clear to the devs about how things should change. The uproar in Korea when the dps meter came out put the Devs to immediate action did it not?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, DevilTDriver said:

A buff like that would mean not %50 but %500 on wrath and %1000 on emberstomp because there is so little uptime on those skills.

 

It would make dps really awkward, a destroyer would suddenly pull aggro from a tank cause of the sudden spike of 100k dps a sec then 15k dps from the regular rotation.

You can say it won't happen, but being complacent is exactly how nothing changes. I'll be loud and clear to the devs about how things should change. The uproar in Korea when the dps meter came out put the Devs to immediate action did it not?

 

I disagree, a bonus of +50% to wrath and +500% to emberstomp wouldn't interfere with aggro at all and wouldn't even be enough.

 

Check your damage meter, do a little math.

 

On a regular fight (party comp/solo, mechanics, rotations, target mobility, dps openings are variables) your wrath damage contributes to give or take 15% total damage, emberstomp to 1,5% damage.

Let's say you deal a total of 1mil damage. ~150k comes from wrath, ~15k comes from emberstomp, 835k other sources. Now if we add the potential bonus of super-uber-OP-buffed turtle shield (+50%wrath dmg +500% emberstomp dmg) wrath will deal 225k dmg, emberstomp  will deal 150k dmg (because we also assume its cooldown is halved), 835k dmg stays unchanged.

That sums up to 1 210 000 damage. A total buff of +21%.

At this very moment without turtle shields, given equal gear level, Destroyers are already ~20% below other classes damage.

 

Conclusion:

 

Even if they buffed the bonus of destroyer Turtle shield from what it is now 5 ( FIVE ) times, Destroyers would barely catch up to some other classes (and still be behind top dogs) who don't have their turtle shield set.

 

This is no joke, this is exactly how insanely bad destroyers are right now, and how super craptastic they will be in reality of all classes having their turtle set.

(and before someone claims damage is not everything blah blah blah Destro grab will still be inferior to BD grip, not to mention their hm block support)

 

And there will be no outcry in EU/NA, check the other destro topics that popped out lately. The vast majority of people doesn't know (even destro players didn't know BD grip offers the same %crit rate bonus as their grab now) or doesn't care. Or likes the fact that they are superior to others.

The only person from NCsoft that actually communicates just told you that you should be happy because you have a big weapon.

 

I feel for you, I really do. The sooner you reroll (hell, even if you're legend stage6 hm11 750ap), the better.

Tell your destrobros, help them make the only good decision.

 

Peace

 

 

Edited by GenericNick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Valiant   
4 hours ago, GenericNick said:

I disagree, a bonus of +50% to wrath and +500% to emberstomp wouldn't interfere with aggro at all and wouldn't even be enough.

 

Check your damage meter, do a little math.

 

On a regular fight (party comp/solo, mechanics, rotations, target mobility, dps openings are variables) your wrath damage contributes to give or take 15% total damage, emberstomp to 1,5% damage.

Let's say you deal a total of 1mil damage. ~150k comes from wrath, ~15k comes from emberstomp, 835k other sources. Now if we add the potential bonus of super-uber-OP-buffed turtle shield (+50%wrath dmg +500% emberstomp dmg) wrath will deal 225k dmg, emberstomp  will deal 150k dmg (because we also assume its cooldown is halved), 835k dmg stays unchanged.

That sums up to 1 210 000 damage. A total buff of +21%.

At this very moment without turtle shields, given equal gear level, Destroyers are already ~20% below other classes damage.

 

Conclusion:

 

Even if they buffed the bonus of destroyer Turtle shield from what it is now 5 ( FIVE ) times, Destroyers would barely catch up to some other classes (and still be behind top dogs) who don't have their turtle shield set.

 

This is no joke, this is exactly how insanely bad destroyers are right now, and how super craptastic they will be in reality of all classes having their turtle set.

(and before someone claims damage is not everything blah blah blah Destro grab will still be inferior to BD grip, not to mention their hm block support)

 

And there will be no outcry in EU/NA, check the other destro topics that popped out lately. The vast majority of people doesn't know (even destro players didn't know BD grip offers the same %crit rate bonus as their grab now) or doesn't care. Or likes the fact that they are superior to others.

The only person from NCsoft that actually communicates just told you that you should be happy because you have a big weapon.

 

I feel for you, I really do. The sooner you reroll (hell, even if you're legend stage6 hm11 750ap), the better.

Tell your destrobros, help them make the only good decision.

 

Peace

 

 

Wow, Just wow

You one of the few people who did notice that BD got enhanced into Destroyer grab since last skill change patch, While ofcourse BD grab is copy paste of Destroyer grab with frontal block now and crit bonus (yes they did pump BD grab with frontal block and crit bonus so they make them more loveable than destroyer) still BD got more advance on their grab,

 

Let's mention some of this advance they got, First of all their grab require no CC so ya yolo grab anytime they want, Second their grab badge make their grab reset while ours just 2 extend useless of anything, Third their unconscious hurl skill require no skill point and it does cast way way faster that you can't counter it while our require 3 skill point and it cast so slowly that you counter it easily, 

Ofcourse you could add their damage is better , their got 2 escape (I don't mind one of them just made for grab escape only) Since both 2 escape doesn't affect their "100-0" skill that work every "30 second only" while yolo Destroyer need to gave their "100-0" Fury buff that work every "45 second" for second escape which has 1min cooldown like grab escape for BD, Ofcourse I won't mention that they got nice short Iframe with extend time after animation (Q,E, SS) while we got 3 Iframe with 12 ,24 and 45 or 1min CD , Not to mention they got their Kick knockdown spread from their "Pull skill or immune skill", They got immune skill that work for 5 second every 30 second not to mention they also could get 1 more immune from spin and another immune if they gave up their "Pull skill" while Destroyer got no immune just stupid shield that could be broken easily and got 45 second CD or 24 if you want and they got their kick knodown on same skill tree with pull so either that or that.

 

And after all of that, People cry about spin2win Destroyer, Really ? BD is just the way better version of Destroyer.

 

Beside I wanna mention something here, Most of skills that destroyer use are like "Impossible" to achieve including emberstomp buff for pve that require a melee class to stand in it so it increase their damage against moving targets, Same apply for emberstomp that gave Defensive in pvp it require stand still against target that can knock you up and break it or drag you away from it, We won't forget Mighty cleveee that require to make target stand still in it so you can regain focus and hit him, Same apply for the damn Shadow Galeforce "Require //crit\\" so you can get focus.

 

See everything Destroyer can do , It just asking for mercy here , They need a target to cc so they can grab, they need a target to stand still so they can regain focus, Everything about Destroyer is either very slow or either stand still.

Edited by Valiant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vOrpheus   
4 hours ago, SoulsHunter said:

You don't need critical anymore for galeforce.

Still needs to crit for the focus recovery which is the entire point of the skill. Allowing it to activate without a crit doesn't help that it just removes already unnecessary rng

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope. I used galeforce recover 30 focus. No need for crit. Unless i am misunderstanding something here.

Edited by SoulsHunter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Valiant   
35 minutes ago, SoulsHunter said:

Nope. I used galeforce recover 40 focus. No need for crit. Unless i am misunderstanding something here.

Read Galeforce , It say focus will be regained if Galeforce itself land critical which mean no focus regain if it didn't hit with crit on it

Edited by Valiant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now