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Summoner nerf ! I'm against it !


Somisan

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1 hour ago, Kirogi said:

http://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/game/classes/summoner/

nothing here says summoner is supposed to be a a support to its allys. only to its familiar.

So id love to know where people are pulling this huge support role from

Summoners are supporting other classes by dominating rankings, for example Infinity Tower, so others don't have to. So so kind of them : )

 

Back to the thread, i don't care about their dps, they should get utility nerf, cause in term of utility its an ultimate class. 

 

It is funny when summoners, class which deserve serious nerf from a long time, cry when they need to simply change their build and rotation to maintain dps, so not true nerf imho.

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It has nothing to do with rotation changes it is the actual dmg nerf to bees i have an issue with, I never used sunflower didnt like it and the damage was subpar in pve. Before the patch i could kill Floor 14 with bees in 33secs now it takes at least 50secs to a min. Naksun 50 secs now it going way over a min. Tower of infinity is even harder to do now with a mix set of sparring and challenger 65% crit 30% piercing i was getting to floor 67-70 now i can barely get to floor 61. Bosses that i would 40+dps on i am only getting like 25k-27k. The dmg loss is significant.

 

 

This is a video of my old Naksun runs with bees  

 

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1 hour ago, Southwind said:

Now compare this to what floors can FM reach in IT. You think it is well balanced? It will be soon 20 floor gap between summoners and fms.

That's completely unrelated, not to mention false.
FM's have issues in ToI not because their Dmg is low, but because they have to sacrifice pure dmg to get their control spells for PvP.
FM is also designed to be a slow killer, which is horrible in ToI.
If ToI had let you just start wherever you last lost FM would not be behind the others like at all, they just can't kill fast enough to get to their own floor + higher floors.
Slashing summoner dmg this much in this patch is not defencible from a balance in EU/NA perspective. It's only happening because of the newest procs in KR, and even there this garnered alot of negative attention

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7 minutes ago, Southwind said:

Where do you read that? Please quote some facts, i am very curious.

 

 All Classes should be able to have equal chances in game content. 

I can't provide you a quote saying this is the intent, but it's clear that's the design.
I also never said it was the intent.
The only way to give everyone equal chance at all content is to make every class the same or set a common bar so low everyone can reach the finish line.
The latter is the case in PvE atm. For PvP this is basically impossible since the power of any class will be at the detriment of the other 8, then you factor in counter-matchups, population for each class etc.

You can see how FM is the slow killer by looking at their skills.
Sheeth, Ice Tab, both doing nothing to end the fight, only extending it.
Force Blast gets replaced by Impact -> lower burn uptime and much lower dmg
RMB path deals less dmg and attacks slower to get chill stacks
Almost only LMB RMB and 1 is used in the optimal rotation with the goal of getting 3 RMB's in the duration of 1 Impact stun, leaving very little room for high dmg abilities.
FM's skills facilitate stalling, and wittling down your opponent slowly while keeping them stunlocked.


If you look at other classes, like BD, BM, SMN, SIN they have a high dmg combo they use inside their CC's. The goal is not to keep up a CC 100% of the time and your opponent dies when it dies. Their goal is to blow your escapes, then catch you in a CC combo which lets them use all of their dmg. FM don't get to use their dmg because then their CC's run out.
ToI and FM is almost not compatible, when you look at how the FM is played in PvP and the extent to which they need to PvP spec in ToI

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It's all true, but that just prove FM need a boost, either some cc immunity which allow to still dps, or parry/defence penetration damage, best way to do this is to add such stats to the veil, while being in its range. Even in cost of longer freeze cooldowns, lower healing, or lower dps on certain skills. Cause now FM is diving to the deepest bottom in pvp (on ToI he already reached it)

 

Most classes can make cc chain 100-0 while FM can make like 30% at its best durring double aerial combo, which is really hard to pull out, and you need to sacrafice tons of sp just to be able to do it, so you are loosing damage/utility in other places, and still you are not sure if you will be able to make at least one combo in fight. 

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2 hours ago, Southwind said:

It's all true, but that just prove FM need a boost, either some cc immunity which allow to still dps, or parry/defence penetration damage, best way to do this is to add such stats to the veil, while being in its range. Even in cost of longer freeze cooldowns, lower healing, or lower dps on certain skills. Cause now FM is diving to the deepest bottom in pvp (on ToI he already reached it)

 

Most classes can make cc chain 100-0 while FM can make like 30% at its best durring double aerial combo, which is really hard to pull out, and you need to sacrafice tons of sp just to be able to do it, so you are loosing damage/utility in other places, and still you are not sure if you will be able to make at least one combo in fight. 

The issue is the huge difference in PvP build and Max dmg build, and the amount of excluisivity and off-trades. If you buff the FM's ability to deal dmg while keeping their PvP utility you risk them becoming insane monsters in PvP, if you let them keep their PvP utility in a max dmg build they also become monsters, or alternatively have no downside to their max utility build since they would be able to keep their damage.
I believe you need a partial or full rework of either the PvP or PvE way of FM, to be able to let them participate  with a healthy mix of their two sets.

But this has nothing to do with the summoner nerf, so lets keep it on topic, eventually theorycraft about how it would be fair to rebalance the FM :)

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28 minutes ago, Yunim said:

But this has nothing to do with the summoner nerf, 

Well it was just an example of real lack of balance, compared to summoner complaining of making F61 instead of F67, while only couple force masters passed F50 on entire Europe ranking... They are still outstanding there. And this small damage barely affected it, cause summoner power is almost all about utility allowing to cc opponent most of time, while having tools to counter everything he got. 

 

like here:

 

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maybe summoner need a nerf  but not 30%+ nerf cause its just too much or even if it is 30% give it to us in 2-3 patches not in 1 cause its just not normal i mean if you lose 1-3k dps each month you will care but is not like you will lose is instantly... you see til then apply next nerf you will get more stats and ....

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They should have nerfed that stupid healing!!!

Their kit is completely retarded compared to the other classes.

 

Insane healing, stealth, one of the best pt protection, pierce on their normal attacks, a stupid bot which can hit you even when you get 100% evasion (PogChamp), op root, can cc you while being cc'd -___-

 

Just give'em BM block, destro spin2win, BD grab, blue buff and soulburn!!! Then they can delete all the other classes and you guys should be happy!!!

 

They should've nerfed all their kit instead of dmg...

 

 

 

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This is the amount of dmg i can output now with bees after learning the new bees rotation. Still significantly less then before burst wise.

 

 

9 hours ago, Southwind said:

Now compare this to what floors can FM reach in IT. You think it is well balanced? It will be soon 20 floor gap between summoners and fms.

Fm is a different case you sacrifice your dps for all of your annoy the hell out of everyone moves. The only way i was even able to get that high in tower was by going almost 100% dps mode no defensive skills no petal going attack cat and fully bursting down the Npc.

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1 hour ago, timster788 said:

This is the amount of dmg i can output now with bees after learning the new bees rotation. Still significantly less then before burst wise.

 

 

Fm is a different case you sacrifice your dps for all of your annoy the hell out of everyone moves. The only way i was even able to get that high in tower was by going almost 100% dps mode no defensive skills no petal going attack cat and fully bursting down the Npc.

 
 

What is the 1-minute blue clock? It appears next to the countdown reset timer near the reset skill timer

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9 hours ago, Southwind said:

Well it was just an example of real lack of balance, compared to summoner complaining of making F61 instead of F67, while only couple force masters passed F50 on entire Europe ranking... They are still outstanding there. And this small damage barely affected it, cause summoner power is almost all about utility allowing to cc opponent most of time, while having tools to counter everything he got. 

 

like here:

 

that is completely different. that has nothing to deal with the summoner class specifically. what u see there is him getting 2 different sets of Black Legendary weapon reset along with "cooldown reduction" tower skill.... so of course that 45 second skill will look spammable and OP.... when its not, its an AI; all the AI had to do was SS from the 1st application of the skill and that would be the end of it.... meaning he wouldnt have gotten those legendary stacks so fast and would have been forced to use the cooldown reduction tower skill earlier..... so this really has nothing to do with the class per say.

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I cant have fun anymore with this nerf on my SMN class . Now I cant even do ebondrake cause party members rather have a Sin, so I get kicked out. As for the Awaken Sunflower that was a stupid decision to make. I don't like that fact that in order for me to use the sunflower's power I have to waste time in the lobby trying to find a Warlock Class. Even if sometimes I get one Warlock member, they hardly use Soul Burn. I do not want to be a support class, I get to choose what I want to be for my class (DPS wise). I wont also pay for any more premium. I really disappointed I wasted my money for this :/

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16 hours ago, Crono said:

I cant have fun anymore with this nerf on my SMN class . Now I cant even do ebondrake cause party members rather have a Sin, so I get kicked out. As for the Awaken Sunflower that was a stupid decision to make. I don't like that fact that in order for me to use the sunflower's power I have to waste time in the lobby trying to find a Warlock Class. Even if sometimes I get one Warlock member, they hardly use Soul Burn. I do not want to be a support class, I get to choose what I want to be for my class (DPS wise). I wont also pay for any more premium. I really disappointed I wasted my money for this :/

 
 

I switched crouching tiger to focus instead of taunt. Now when WL does SB I just q the cat and spam RMB. Not sure if it does more than DPS than lmb + rmb but I like to pretend. Also spam 2 during SB as much as possible. Not sure if it helps you out but just a tip.

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My sunflower parses seem to be exactly the same as before the nerf, but now my bees are doing less than sunflower again.  I like sunflower better anyway, so the nerf doesn't bother me at all.  Summoner is still one of the most versatile classes, there's pretty much nothing it can't do.

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I dont really mind the small dps nerf but our bees are totall screwed over and nowhere near to what the other regions have. Tbh its more viable to use sunflower than bees now, unlike before where they did the same damage.

 

To compare: me and my bf did duo yeti, the dps meter results were"

Bees:

Him: 16k

Me: 13k

(this is fine considering my ping, he does more hits than me)

Sunflower:

Him: 21k

Me: 19k

 

So....

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1 minute ago, Hail0 said:

2000 posts,

I advise you to play the game more instead of complaining on forums so you can learn how to play bees properly for more damage than sunflower.

I know how to play my class tyvm. But you should educate yoursef first rather than giving pointless replies :)

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