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Summoner nerf ! I'm against it !


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2 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

Just saying petition is not allowed here but anyway to the topic. Actually I liked the changes. Surprisingly the dps actually highered with bees and especially if you know the build it's pretty darn high. I never got to over 22k before on my summoner with WL in the party but today I experienced closer to 25-27k DPS in dungeons. Summoners should actually try other builds instead to see that actually they are still pretty darn powerful.

Thats because of new awaken skill, before you had awaken rose (LMB) whhich added some damage to a low damage skill, but now you have awaken sunflower/bees improving its own damage.

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In Easter Region Summoners are 1 of the highest dps class, thanks to wind or earth damage (elemental damage what gives alot of damage on our accassiories, and weapon) , and cause of that Ncsoft

This nerf it does not fit our region.It does not fit our gear ,the zones we are supposed to have in order to gear up to do kind of ''unbalanced'' damge aren't even here yet.Our class is not as strong

That's completely unrelated, not to mention false. FM's have issues in ToI not because their Dmg is low, but because they have to sacrifice pure dmg to get their control spells for PvP. FM is also

after the patch note I really thou its gonna be end of sum but after test I really don't feel a big change and if you think about it sum got a skills heal/stealth which make him good for survive so giving sum heal+ high DPS lol sum will be invincible they just turning sum into more heal support than DPS.

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23 hours ago, SoulsHunter said:

^Exactly this. Summoner is not a dps class, it is not a tank class. It is a utility class. All your utility got buffed so much its making me jealous. And you still want to do the most dps and get aggro and tank?

 

I guess we should all reroll to summoner :S

utility? dude u realize that as it stands, nobody has any reason to take a summoner in any party right now? this nerf hit since 10/26/2016 hit us very hard....... our dps being slightly high along with our utility (heal, party resist, party stealth, party rez, petal storm etc) was what made Summs viable in parties. Take away the dmg.... like they just did and all we are left with are un-needed utility. right now a standard 4 man party will look like this WL > BM > BD/FM > Sin. there are 9 classes, some didnt fit in 4 member parties which sucks but no we basically get the same treatment.... i mean 1 or 2 nerfs every other patch i have no problem with, BUT NERF EVERY *cricket*ING PATCH??? why did u release the class in th e1st place if your gonna make it a completely different class from what it was released as? i mean the summoner skeleton is still there, but right now the muscles, joints, blood vessels and everything are almost completely different.... if u get my drift.

2 hours ago, ArchonOfWar said:

after the patch note I really thou its gonna be end of sum but after test I really don't feel a big change and if you think about it sum got a skills heal/stealth which make him good for survive so giving sum heal+ high DPS lol sum will be invincible they just turning sum into more heal support than DPS.

and thats a problem..... in this game the holy trinity does not need to exist. Tank is an exception since it makes shit easier, but for the most part a healer is not necessary because every class has their own built in heal sustain as well as multiple gems that facilitate HP recovery..... like notice how almost every class got a heal sustain on their dps skill this patch.... so why nerf summoners and give them more healing when they are pushing towards classes sustaining their own health? thats plain and simply killing the class.... and u dont feel any difference? i felt alot... a whole 2-3k dps decrease lot for my gear stats... imagine all those guys that have 700+ AP and 245% crit dmg... imagine their dps drop. their dps drop is probably somewhere in the region of 5-8k since base dmg scale exponentially with dmg modifiers.

 

also note that its not a case of simply nerfing summoners. its a *cricket*ing problem when they nerf summoner and buff almost all the other classes in the same damn patch. moving Soulburn skill from Rosethorn to Sunflower is good, but not at the expense of nerfing our main dps skill by almost 30% WHILE buffing the other classes; simply because having a warlock in the party is situational and is not always a possible and even if a warlock is present in the party it does almost nothing for the summoner dps since all the other classes will benefit the same except with WAY better modifiers. dis shit is absurd.

Edited by RudeBwoii
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I find it amusing that everyone is jumping on the "nerf BM" train, yet if the devs dare touch the summoner, you all start complaining. Yeah, BM is pretty easy to play now, but you still need a lot of skill to avoid being one of the countless useless RMB BM's in F8 that die the moment they pull aggro. Meanwhile, SSP is a cat playground given the endless horde of summoners that run around the battlefield. You know why? Because the class is extremely easy to play WHILE also being EXTREMELY efficient at farming. "Boss attack patterns? What the hell is that," said a friend who killed Junghado first try with a badly geared summoner. Furthermore, summoners offer extremely high party utility (one of two classes REQUIRED to clear Ebondrake Citadel) with their heals, projectile protection, invisibility, and even reviving. So you want to top DPS while providing some of the best party utility and solo clear speed/ease? Please... If you all looked at this game objectively, you'd know that summoner deserves to have mid-tier DPS at best.

13 minutes ago, RudeBwoii said:

also note that its not a case of simply nerfing summoners. its a *cricket*ing problem when they nerf summoner and buff almost all the other classes in the same damn patch. moving Soulburn skill from Rosethorn to Sunflower is good, but not at the expense of nerfing our main dps skill by almost 30% WHILE buffing the other classes. dis shit is absurd.

Say that to all the destroyers that cannot compete with BD, or the KFM's that get out-tanked and out-DPS'd by BM - also out-buffed by WL. How about SF - the class that nobody takes anywhere? A group of summoners got quadruple my prestige (KFM) when we pulled and killed 2 pre-nerf Unbound Elites at the same time. They were casually talking in party chat during the fight while I was desperately trying to stay alive and DPS. I didn't even tank for them - the cats did - and I would've died if it wasn't for their heals. Does that seem fair to you?

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The nerf annoys people mostly because it flat out made True Scorpio wielding summoner hit like one that had Awakened Breeze staff pre-patch, unless there is a warlock in the party. Basically 50-60AP or 7-10% dps removed... well at least with sunflower build.

 

Allegedly bee's can now put out more single target damage, but i doubt it's compareable to old sunflower. 

 

IMO the sunflower was kind of too good of a skill and deserved a good nerfing, but the could have made some other skills hit a bit harder to make up some of the dps loss.

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Myrobots said:

The nerf annoys people mostly because it flat out made True Scorpio wielding summoner hit like one that had Awakened Breeze staff pre-patch, unless there is a warlock in the party. Basically 50-60AP or 7-10% dps removed... well at least with sunflower build.

 

Allegedly bee's can now put out more single target damage, but i doubt it's compareable to old sunflower. 

 

IMO the sunflower was kind of too good of a skill and deserved a good nerfing, but the could have made some other skills hit a bit harder to make up some of the dps loss.

Summoner players just don't understand, who the hell spec a 2x16m AOE skill for mushin tower, 1v1, 3v3? It is only common sense to spec into single target skill with higher dps, in summoner case it would be switching to bees.

 

But apparently summoner players don't understand that because their sunflower skill was way too strong they can use it for all situation. Now they finally understand our pain, cry more thank you. In case you don't understand that is the trouble we have been going through. Now you understand why it takes some time before we start the boss, because we need to respect for it. Finally now I don't have to deal with summoner players starting the boss without waiting for the rest, thank you NCsoft.

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Oddly enough every player in this game, bar none, has the SAME choices everyday when they login: to be a Sum or not. You made the choice to play whatever class you wanted, and you still have that choice. So for any of you to complain about what another class has, or doesn't have, is asinine. At the end of the day you got what you wanted: Sum nerf'ed. Yet you still are not happy and continue coming to this thread complaining. I don't how some of you survive outside your houses.

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Well before sunflower did more overall damage than bees in a boss fight. With the new adjustments, sunflower is still stronger. People use sunflower because it is more dps. You can burst with  bees a little bit which is helpful for bots in desolate and adds in Ebondrake.I  did more damage with the old bees then this new bee build, even with how flawed the old bee's was. The developers have not made bee's better yet. If have good rotation, sunflower is the better choice and has always been in NA. Summoner chose the class they thought they would like. No summoner wanted to be nerfed. Now you are saying they have a choice. If they had a choice it would be developers giving people the option to switch their class and keep all their hard work for their class adjusted to the new one. The adjustments arent a small set back. Summoner damage was one of the lowest if you actually played with people who had good rotation. Most people seem to not have that ability and just play summoner class rather than themselves. Now summoners have to take all that effort to dps a significantly lower amount that others even with perfect rotation. Every class has healing and utility like summoner do, summoner ability to heal is 60% of their teammates and not themselves. Something i personally dont even spec because its a waste.

Edited by Skynemis953
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You seems to be new so let me try to explain. It is the SAME for all classes. But do you see lots of threads created to whine about it? We deal with it because we love our class. If it is too much to deal with, we give up and create another class. Anyway in another thread you mentioned you switched to WL. That is a good start rather than complaining here, I wish you luck in your next path :)

Edited by SoulsHunter
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7 hours ago, SoulsHunter said:

You seems to be new so let me try to explain. It is the SAME for all classes. But do you see lots of threads created to whine about it? We deal with it because we love our class. If it is too much to deal with, we give up and create another class. Anyway in another thread you mentioned you switched to WL. That is a good start rather than complaining here, I wish you luck in your next path :)

So your solution to massive class imbalance and broken skill trees is "play another class"... rather than fixing the things that are broken.

 

Life tip: You do not have a future in game design.

(On second thought, you're actually a perfect candidate for NC... I take it back.)

 

And heavens forbid people discuss things on a discussion forum. What a travesty this is.

 

EDIT: Realized SoulsHunter would fit in perfectly at NC.

Edited by Lurkios
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Personally, I feel that for me who uses Bees primarily, this patch feels like a nerf in damage but a buff in usability. Although summoners lost some dps, the new Rosethorn insta cast effect makes the change manageable. Summoners did have high dps, and while I would love to continue having high dps, we have lots of support tool kits such as revives and party heals. For people who use Sunflower, I am sorry for you guys, but at least for Bee users, its not all negatives =p.

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summoner needed a nerf long ago and because of that every patch for a while has crapped on summoner.

Popular public opinion is they need nerf...mostly because its overwhelming to fight them in bronze since there are two different possible enemies to click on.

 

Even before this patch, if you know your class summoner should be a free win.

My guess is they are pushing summoner into a full utility role vs having any dps at all.

Edited by Jackiesaysya
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1 hour ago, IDontHaveARealName said:

Personally, I feel that for me who uses Bees primarily, this patch feels like a nerf in damage but a buff in usability. Although summoners lost some dps, the new Rosethorn insta cast effect makes the change manageable. Summoners did have high dps, and while I would love to continue having high dps, we have lots of support tool kits such as revives and party heals. For people who use Sunflower, I am sorry for you guys, but at least for Bee users, its not all negatives =p.

you are sorry for us . oke this made me laugh how can you be sorry while bees dmg was reduced with 40%+ and sunflower by 20%+ or its just because you can slack and don't have to move while u are playing with bees ? belive me 40%dps is not worth that

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18 minutes ago, Etherealz said:

you are sorry for us . oke this made me laugh how can you be sorry while bees dmg was reduced with 40%+ and sunflower by 20%+ or its just because you can slack and don't have to move while u are playing with bees ? belive me 40%dps is not worth that

I'm sorry you do not know how to adapt to patch notes and have to be upset about every single change. However, this is not my problem. It is yours. Even with bees damage being nerfed by a good bit, I am still able to continue high numbers of DPS and play a critical role in many of the 6v6 games I play. This has not changed in the slightest, and even though you may like to make up numbers of 40% DPS loss (which its not btw), the tradeoff from high spike damage to better sustained damage is relatively equal. Just because you cannot adapt to patch changes does not mean a petition needs to be made so that you have your "slack and not move" game play.

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@IDontHaveARealName

well my bees just goes down from 16-16.5k to 10-10.5k and my overall on a naksun run from 32 to 23-24 so 40% is like 6-6.4k on hit so its not 40% is more like 35%-36% but still . and i all i get for that i don't have to act as a melee with them and i wasn't talkin about pvp tho and i wasn't the one who did this petition + there are ppl who like it and ppl who don't that it like i said in another post nothing will change even if all summoners will complain about it so slowly we all have to get along with it or either change to another class either take a break until next skills patch or a little bit more

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Summoner was nerfed for something what he isnt capable of ! This nerf came literly 2 years earlier then it should! this is the main reason iam against it. Eu/Na Summoner got the same nerf as TW Summoner! Lets do some datamining.

B&S was released in Taiwan November 20. 2014, They have Elemental damage multipliers on accasories and weapon ! They do so much damage compair to us.

B&S was released in Europe January 16 2016.

 

This nerf makes no sense if we are looking these facts ! PLEASE undo this damage nerf on sunflower and bees and apply this nerf when really needed ! Not now maybe at 2018 or when we catch up with their level !

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8 hours ago, Lurkios said:

So your solution to massive class imbalance and broken skill trees is "play another class"... rather than fixing the things that are broken.

 

Life tip: You do not have a future in game design.

(On second thought, you're actually a perfect candidate for NC... I take it back.)

 

And heavens forbid people discuss things on a discussion forum. What a travesty this is.

 

EDIT: Realized SoulsHunter would fit in perfectly at NC.

Well I don't know what to say, because to me they ARE fixing things. Do you know how shitty it was before all these patches? KFM with no fighting spirit, hardly any skills to reduce searing palm cooldown. We can't tank even if it is a tank class.

 

BM finally get the dps boost they needed so that they can also tank, do you know how shitty it was to play a BM before these patches?

 

What about the destroyers, blade dancer? They are getting some buff but to be honest I don't know much about them.

 

If you insist on my opinion, I would say nerf summoner and warlock q taunt and give to KFM and BM so they can be their tank. Nerf summoner stealth and healing and give to soul fighter so they can stay behind a boss and dps and heal their teammate. Nerf summoner range shield and give to KFM so they can focus on tanking boss without dealing with range mobs.

 

Yea after all that nerf please buff summoner dps. Let them be the class with nothing but dps since that seems to be the common agreement.

 

Edit: Do you know how happy I am to party with summoner at taiwan region? They know how to play their class and provide all kinds of support. When I get CC they q taunt their cat. When I missed my Iframe they heal me. When there are range mobs they clear them. They always cc and cat pin the boss and deal so much damage that i will lose aggro every now and then. I can be the tank class only if the other class contribute their role. But here it seems everyone wants to be a dps role. Fine go create a FM or something. It is not exactly a solution, but I give up discussing this thats why I said that.

Edited by SoulsHunter
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1 hour ago, SoulsHunter said:

 

BM finally get the dps boost they needed so that they can also tank, do you know how shitty it was to play a BM before these patches

 

i find this line disturbing. Bms needed a dps boost, but not a dps boost strong enough to propel them to #1 DPS by miles ahead of everyone else. and if a BM needed that much of a DPS boost then clearly they arent meant to be tank.... in which game have u ever see a tank out dps a DPS????? oh wait... nvm (we have Blade and Shit). DPS and Tank are 2 completely different roles, not 1 role combined. a tank should not have the highest dps in a party simply because its not healthy nor is it ideal, if that was the case then their would be no need for a tank in the 1st damn place. Tanking in any game is made possible through the use of aggro/threat generating skills with a combination of dealing a bit of dps. There is no point for a BM/Tank to have be #1 DPS because if thats the case, then FM can go back to tanking..... what BMs needed to be good tanks was a bit more dmg along with better threat generating skills, not both.

 

as for the summoner nerfs. yes summoner is an off utility class, but the same can be said for FM. granted FM does not have the same amount of utility that summoners have, but they do have a relatively strong utility role in the party.... if not better: frost sheath, divine veil, freezing a boss are quite similar to Summ's ability to to: party stealth, petal storm and root. Most ppl would even argue that Frost sheath is even way better than party stealth in most cases (the obvious counter-argument to this is Ebondrake Citadel). yes summoners have cat pin. cat taunt and a party heal (which i will get to in a second).

 

Summoner having the cat to facilitate certain utility is a class mechanic... just like FM have a shit load of other DPS possibility and (with their ridiculous 85.0 dmg modifiers and shit) and their self freeze among other stuff... those are class related utility (bar the dmg). so reducing summoner's main and only real reliable source of dmg to relegate it to a support and only support class is quite moot simply because almost every other class has just about the same amount of utility.... bar the cat. and even when looking at the 3 main utility functions the cat provides: CC, power pounce, taunt; it is simply just as much as any other class.... power pounce is subpar to BD and Dest grab, taunt in itself is a superior mechanic but quite useful and the cat has 3 cc on it just as much (if not less) as any other class.... basically without cat the summoner has no cc at all.

 

Now on to the heal. this is a joke as i have said in other posts. if summoners are getting nerfed simply because we have too much utility... why give summoners that Huzzah! heal in the 1st place? it is unnecessary simply because every class has a built in health sustain function and some a heal dump skill. The game was described as a game that is devoid of the RPS and Holy Trinity system, yet they are pushing so hard for the holy trinity system here with how they are dealing with summoner. The game does not need a healer class, the reason? quite simple EVERY CLASS HAS A BUILT IN HEALTH SUSTAIN either on their main dps skill, on their gems or a health dump skill. See they nerfed summoners last patch, but buffed their heal... all was still good, now they nerfed their dmg some more. Again why are they pushing for the holy trinity system? this game does not need a healer class.... and as how it stands right now, summoners will not be needed in parties until those elemental dmg thingies come out and until the pve Legendary soul shields come out.

Edited by RudeBwoii
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5 minutes ago, RudeBwoii said:

i find this line disturbing. Bms needed a dps boost, but not a dps boost strong enough to propel them to #1 DPS by miles ahead of everyone else. and if a BM needed that much of a DPS boost then clearly they arent meant to be tank.... in which game have u ever see a tank out dps a DPS????? oh wait... nvm (we have Blade and Shit). DPS and Tank are 2 completely different roles, not 1 role combined. a tank should not have the highest dps in a party simply because its not healthy nor is it ideal, if that was the case then their would be no need for a tank in the 1st damn place.

 

as for the summoner nerfs. yes summoner is an off utility class, but the same can be said for FM. granted FM does not have the same amount of utility that summoners have, but they do have a relatively strong utility role in the party.... if not better: frost sheath, divine veil, freezing a boss are quite similar to Summ's ability to to: party stealth, petal storm and root. Most ppl would even argue that Frost sheath is even way better than party stealth in most cases (the obvious counter-argument to this is Ebondrake Citadel). yes summoners have cat pin. cat taunt and a party heal (which i will get to in a second).

 

Summoner having the cat to facilitate certain utility is a class mechanic... just like FM have a shit load of other DPS possibility and (with their ridiculous 85.0 dmg modifiers and shit) and their self freeze among other stuff... those are class related utility (bar the dmg). so reducing summoner's main and only real reliable source of dmg to relegate it to a support and only support class is quite moot simply because almost every other class has just about the same amount of utility.... bar the cat. and even when looking at the 3 main utility functions the cat provides: CC, power pounce, taunt; it is simply just as much as any other class.... power pounce is subpar to BD and Dest grab, taunt in itself is a superior mechanic but quite useful and the cat has 3 cc on it just as much (if not less) as any other class.... basically without cat the summoner has no cc at all.

 

Now on to the heal. this is a joke as i have said in other posts. if summoners are getting nerfed simply because we have too much utility... why give summoners that Huzzah! heal in the 1st place? it is unnecessary simply because every class has a built in health sustain function and some a heal dump skill. The game was described as a game that is devoid of the RPS and Holy Trinity system, yet they are pushing so hard for the holy trinity system here with how they are dealing with summoner. The game does not need a healer class, the reason? quite simple EVERY CLASS HAS A BUILT IN HEALTH SUSTAIN either on their main dps skill, on their gems or a health dump skill. See they nerfed summoners last patch, but buffed their heal... all was still good, now they nerfed their dmg some more. Again why are they pushing for the holy trinity system? this game does not need a healer class.... and as how it stands right now, summoners will not be needed in parties until those elemental dmg thingies come out and until the pve Legendary soul shields come out.

Yes the BM Buff seems too much, but they are adjusting it which is good. Hope they will continue adjusting it.

 

Like I said KFM and BM don't have Q taunt and sadly in BNS a tanker MUST dps. If you cannot dps you cannot tank because unlike summoner, we don't have a simple Q taunt utility to spam.

 

As for Summoner, like I said I give up discussing it. Yea ok, I give up, I agree with you just remove all Summoner utility and even their cat and let them play a dps class. (Might as well create a BM then :S)

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okay yesterday I did more test in infinity tower with PVE/PVP SS my AP is 652 with 1632crit DMG

first PVE SS with piercing my max Crit with (sunflower) is 6k didn't try (rumblebees) stage 1  cuz its already got less DMG than sunflower

with PVP SS (Sunflower) max Crit DMG 7k that's cuz I have more piercing with PVP SS

I used to reach floor 45 before patch now if I made it to 39 will be great cuz of lack of DPS

in PVP arena/Battleground sum still good but when it comes to PVE its garbage

and lets look to the BM/Sins in last patches they buffed them and increases there DMG

now when it come to Sum against good sin  we have no chance they invisible 24h and sins one of the best classes in game if you have good latency not mention that they got op DMG

(BM) a good BM can 4~5 hit us in PVP thanks to Dragon Tongue if we didn't use escape skills immediately

now here come the question why buffed all other classes and Nerf sum only ?

and if they turn sum into more party support than DPS why not doing it before beside every class has his own heal skills

now they Nerf sum after most of sum have good equipment and spend a lot of moony and time on that class

and whoever said that sum rule he don't understand a shit  KFM/DEST/Sins can beat us good in PVP

why not Nerf them to ?????

one more sum Nerf and say bb to that class.

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19 minutes ago, ArchonOfWar said:

okay yesterday I did more test in infinity tower with PVE/PVP SS my AP is 652 with 1632crit DMG

first PVE SS with piercing my max Crit with (sunflower) is 6k didn't try (rumblebees) stage 1  cuz its already got less DMG than sunflower

with PVP SS (Sunflower) max Crit DMG 7k that's cuz I have more piercing with PVP SS

I used to reach floor 45 before patch now if I made it to 39 will be great cuz of lack of DPS

in PVP arena/Battleground sum still good but when it comes to PVE its garbage

and lets look to the BM/Sins in last patches they buffed them and increases there DMG

now when it come to Sum against good sin  we have no chance they invisible 24h and sins one of the best classes in game if you have good latency not mention that they got op DMG

(BM) a good BM can 4~5 hit us in PVP thanks to Dragon Tongue if we didn't use escape skills immediately

now here come the question why buffed all other classes and Nerf sum only ?

and if they turn sum into more party support than DPS why not doing it before beside every class has his own heal skills

now they Nerf sum after most of sum have good equipment and spend a lot of moony and time on that class

and whoever said that sum rule he don't understand a shit  KFM/DEST/Sins can beat us good in PVP

why not Nerf them to ?????

one more sum Nerf and say bb to that class.

thats what i have been saying about summ being a party/heal support.... its not needed cuz every class has their own form of health sustain. so currently they dont have a place in 4 man parties... now sins have more use than summoners even in ebondrake: blue buff + 2/3 rank dps AND party stealth. why anyone gonna ask for a summ when they can get blue buff + 1.8x the amount of dmg that a summ after last patch can deal in a sin?

 

as for Tower of infinity. i was a constant floor 47-49 with my summ pre-patch. my stats are 645 AP with about 208% crit dmg with pvp soul shields but i havent tried it yet after patch since i seriously dont feel like playing the class anymore. Thankfully my BD was my main and it has gear closer to 660 AP than my summ... always good to have a fail-safe plan i guess.... and no i dont care what anyone gonna say about me class hopping.... because all these nerfs to the class is killing the class... 3 nerfs in a row every major patch.... *cricket*ing ridiculous.

 

i bet with these nerfs i cant even get to floor 42.... i can *cricket*ing bet upon it.

Edited by RudeBwoii
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Yes, they are adjusting it by buffing BM even more giving them health back when they do their stupid over-powered move. When I go into arena now, it is nearly impossible to beat a BM several HM levels below me. They shouldn't resist every attack we have, throw out a pull that GOES THROUGH OUR DANDELION, and then two hit us. NCSOFT, I am really really really really upset with you right now. 

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