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A lesson in boss mechanics and party play


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Okay so hear me out on this. I just finished up a 1 hour run of a yeti 6 man and it has become apparent to me that people need to brush up on their boss mechanics and party playing skills. There is no reason why it should take 7 or more tries to kill yeti once in 6 man. So heres my take on the situation.

 

First of all if you don't know how to do a boss tell your party. I cannot stress this enough tell your party. Not knowing how to do the boss mechanics will often lead to a wipe regardless if youre the one doing the actual mechanics or not. More often than not someone will explain it to you.

 

Second, speak up. If someone is talking to you respond. when someone is trying to carry everyone through but no one wants to even acknowledge they are there it become really frustrating. If you don't speak english say so. This way the party at least knows that you're not ignoring them or trolling.

 

Third, look up boss mechanics. Tbh i wish we could create some stickied guides on some of the game bosses. At the very least the easy ones which could have short guides that people can read. Learning the boss mechanics can be a challenge if you don't understand why a boss is doing something. To use the yeti example, we had a 600ap sin in our party who had aggro who kept getting grabbed by yeti during the heat phase. I was the only one who knew what to do when someone gets grabbed, so we had 4 dead party members after each round of heat. We also had some party members who didn't know how to cc a boss properly.

 

Finally, stop being lazy and do the mechanics. I often see people get too relaxed at something like yeti just because of their ap or they have a good party. Party wipes due to failed mechanics waste everyones time including yours. Idc if you're maxing your dps or not, just make sure that the cc mechanics work out.

 

So yeah this was kind of a rant, but i think the community really needs to sure up its mechanical skill and start talking again. People are much nicer if you ask before the party wipes, and while some people can be rude, we all had to learn boss mechanics a first time. Once you learn the bosses mechanics, you can handle it on any class without much extra practice.

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1 hour Yeti? LoL. Sorry but I would have left that party straight away. I will give a party a couple of mistakes and then I bounce.

 

I see all manner of nonsense in parties: AFK'ers, bots, zero knowledge of class/mechanics, etc. My pet peeves are people that can't tank: FM's are the worst offenders. Learn to walk through the mob, defend yourself, etc. If you have agro, keep it and tank it like a pro. This game doesn't punish people that over agro like some games, you simply die if you over agro and you're not a tank class.

Edited by KlausFlouride
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So you found the average NA players, nice.

Yes, it would be nice if everyone actually had a good mentality and wanted to learn mechanics willingly and communicate instead of thinking "dps everything + facetank every hit" but you aren't going to find that in most cases on this server.

 

But yeah, 1 hour in Yeti, especially after the nerf on his HP, I would've left and found another group after the 3rd attempt if no one was listening/communicating.

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44 minutes ago, love4ndpeace said:

a single fm can easily handle all yeti mechanics

Not only a fm, a sin can it, too, as far as I know.

2 hours ago, Malign said:

we had a 600ap sin in our party who had aggro who kept getting grabbed by yeti during the heat phase

Next time you should tell the tank to iframe the grab. CC yeti is much easier than relying on everyone knows what to do. It's the same with the fm can everything alone. If he let grab and no one knows what to do, everyone except him will die. That's the same result. I made that experience with my low sin, too. With under 500 ap I won't have aggro there (well, there were times I had but then you know what others did...). I know all mechanics but when the tank let yeti grab I can do nothing against the fact that most people will die. It's really frustrating.

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Honestly, Winter and Ken/Gen are among the biggest offenders when it comes to party play. Literally no one does mechanics verses Winter Mane EVER, while people blindly believe 6-0/4-0 against Ken/Gen is an effective method when in reality its one of the worst ways to go against them.

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4 hours ago, Malign said:

First of all if you don't know how to do a boss tell your party. I cannot stress this enough tell your party. Not knowing how to do the boss mechanics will often lead to a wipe regardless if youre the one doing the actual mechanics or not. More often than not someone will explain it to you.

I can't agree enough. I'm trying to be patient on this with other newbies from level 45-HM6 but sometimes even HM8-10 don't even know what they're doing. How in the world were they able to reach at that level without knowing anything? LOL.

 

But yeah, if there are people who don't know the mechanics, I guess someone should try creating a sticky thread with the list of helpful guides out there so they don't get buried from all the non-sense post. Kappa.

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So let me clarify a few things. I was on an alt trying to get him some soul shields. I'm aware how the mechanics work, no one was listen to my explanations though.

 

My main is an fm so to those here who are hating on fm tanks please realize that fms cannot keep all bosses stationary. Yes I can keep yeti completely still when I tank him, but most fms can't. Our skill set is not very good at keeping  a boss still though. Our dodges move us all over the place and we will always land 7m behind the boss if we dodge through him. Our back step is also 14m. It's not possible to just move out of the way of all attacks. However, I do agree most fms need to do a better job when they do have aggro.

 

Also we had 3 different fms over the course of an hour. None of them were even capable of stunning the boss during the heat phase, let along do the ice phase.

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1 hour ago, Shukran said:

i dont get a part of the rant:

 

if sin tank get grabbed u do the normal way of yeti boss. u stop at 70% and 30% (35%?) and do the shrooms phase.  easy

If he was the only one who did the mechanic, then there was also chance that he was the only one who stepped on ice/throwing fire orbs from mushrooms, while other people did blind DPS pushing past the threshold.

 

Provided that they even reach the cold phase in the first place, since only he approached the grabbed for the heat buff.

 

Or

 

Provided that they reached the cold phase with the OP somehow saved the party/The party managed to survive thank to luck and dragonblood. Then due to not knowing mechanics, they did not bother to clear the ice, or not know how to iframe the slam.

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I can't say for Sogun's Lament, Desolate Tome or Ebondrake Citadel as I've not tried them yet.  But most other dungeons and the boss mechanics are not too hard to grasp after a few runs, except, (personally, for me) Yeti.  I don't know why Yeti feels soooooo confusing for me even after like 6+ runs...  Also, for the more experienced players, don't EXPECT other players to simply "know the mechanics".  I play the FM class and never knew there is a specific FM-only mechanic for yeti..!! 0.o'  And no, I'm playing a damage dealer class, not a tank class, thus I won't want to be tanking a boss like Yeti.

 

Also, the party matching for dungeons is just horrible.  I've had runs of dungeons where the party was 3 FMs and 3 SFs or some other strange combination with no primary tanks.  It's ok in some mid (as well as low) level dungeons, but try doing that in higher level dungeons..

 

And the fact that you need to be sitting in a lobby to queue for instance matching is in itself a problem.  Take a lesson from Tera's instance matching.  You can form up a partial party and the party leader then queues for instance matching on the selected dungeons all while everyone is still out on open world doing stuff.  And when the matching is done, you get teleported straight to the instance.  AND the matching is done cross-server as well.

 

Another well 'ranted' issue with dungeon party matching is the gear of the party members. AP being the most looked-at stat.  Why isn't there a minimum gear score requirement imposed on the dungeons is beyond me. Again, Tera has that and if your 'item level' score does not match or exceed the dungeon's requirement, you are prevented from selecting it for party matching, even if you are only short by 1 point.  It will not prevent you from entering the dungeon if you are already in a full pre-formed party though.  ie entering 'manually' from the dungeon's actual open world entrance with a party instead of through the matching system.

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1 hour ago, Ilenia Draconis said:

 

Also, the party matching for dungeons is just horrible.  I've had runs of dungeons where the party was 3 FMs and 3 SFs or some other strange combination with no primary tanks.  It's ok in some mid (as well as low) level dungeons, but try doing that in higher level dungeons..

 

Every class can tank in every dungeon, and are given tools to protect themselves. Even Warlock who don't have a lot of iframe can spam block against yellow and normal attack.

 

When you're in pug, chance there will be no BM, KFM, Summoner's cat or anyone  tank for you. Especially when FM is one of strongest DPSer in this game, so chance you take aggro is very high if you DPS and gear properly. So you should learn to tank by taking notice on boss rotation. One tip is not stray too far away from boss, or they will spam their strongest attack against you.

Edited by Alysha Hawkeye
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11 minutes ago, Alysha Hawkeye said:

Every class can tank in every dungeon, and are given tools to protect themselves. Even Warlock who don't have a lot of iframe can spam block against yellow and normal attack.

 

When you're in pug, chance there will be no BM, KFM, Summoner's cat or anyone  tank for you. Especially when FM is one of strongest DPSer in this game, so chance you take aggro is very high if you DPS and gear properly. So you should learn to tank by taking notice on boss rotation. One tip is not stray too far away from boss, or they will spam their strongest attack against you.

Well then this game is one strange game then if there are no primary tanks for dungeons. It is also strange that this game doesn't have a primary healer class.

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16 minutes ago, Ilenia Draconis said:

Well then this game is one strange game then if there are no primary tanks for dungeons. It is also strange that this game doesn't have a primary healer class.

The game has no holy-trinity of tanker/healer/DPSer like most of MMORPGs out there. Every class can tank, DPS and self-heal effectively. Some classes have their kits catering for specific roles, like BM and KFM has aggro generation, while Summoner, SF can do long-cooldown party heal.

 

It is one of distinguishing feature of this game, as you can play every dungeon at any kind of party composition, without the need to wait for a tanker and a healer to pop in. Except for Ebondrake Citadel that specifically requires for stealthers and tab-dazers, but it can be also done without if you know the trick.

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I actually find it funny that people want others to use guides to learn the mechanics of a dungeons. It's like being book taught on how to pilot a plane and then given a plane to fly...it won't end well.

 

The best way to learn is by hands on experience with instructions by someone that knows what to do, a person that has morals and isn't an ass like so many people are.

 

Guides don't pop out of thin air, someone had to take the time to learn the mechanics and then write them.

 

I can tell you right now that not one person that complains about others not knowing the mechanics of a dungeon knew what to do when they started to run it, only after they had hands on experience did they actually knew what to do.

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I struggled with Yeti for awhile and resorted to just avoiding the place because of so many disaster runs and no one bothering to explain what to do etc. After a lot of searching I found a youtuber from the TW servers who explains Yeti and Sogun's Lament that makes you actually feel like it's easy... and it is!

 

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCLy61N9J0K-5B_aGy2kxYdQ

 

Check him out , he's done basic and advanced guides for some of the dungeons. Most importantly, he explains exactly what to look for and how to deal with it.

 

For Yeti, above anything else in the fight, watch the two CC bars under his health and be ready to use your CC skill when they turn black after he's used the heat draw ability. After he's drawn in the heat, stick as close as you can to him so when he does get CC'd, you'll be right on top of the geyser which will save you. This applies for any and all classes that handle CC'ing in the fight.

 

As a bonus, FMs have the ability to Frost Sheath on cold drawing. Don't quote me but I believe you can Frost Armor through 3 of the stomps then F out and toss up V which will save you and the party through the last 5 stomps (I don't remember the exact numbers so if someone wants to correct me, go ahead). I honestly don't get to use this much because most wipes happen at the heat phases because no CC or the damage is high enough that he drops like a rock as the cold phase activates.

Edited by Meginb
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59 minutes ago, Silvernite said:

I can tell you right now that not one person that complains about others not knowing the mechanics of a dungeon knew what to do when they started to run it, only after they had hands on experience did they actually knew what to do.

That's right but if no one says that he doesnt know it and even if you talk to them they dont answer, you have to assume that they know it. Do you ask everyone in all your groups if they know the dungeon? Yeti is so old content. If you dont know what to do you have to say that. No one will ask you if you know it for a dungeon what was released several months ago.

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4 hours ago, Meginb said:

As a bonus, FMs have the ability to Frost Sheath on cold drawing. Don't quote me but I believe you can Frost Armor through 3 of the stomps then F out and toss up V which will save you and the party through the last 5 stomps (I don't remember the exact numbers so if someone wants to correct me, go ahead). I honestly don't get to use this much because most wipes happen at the heat phases because no CC or the damage is high enough that he drops like a rock as the cold phase activates.

It's the other way around - frost armor for up to 5 and sheath the last 3.

This will allow the party to iframe the jump after the stomps. A little lag will mess this up though and 5 stomps in Frost Armor needs good timing. Better get Yeti down to 5 or 6 stomps if you want the FM to save. Also unless your party is low dps, the FM can't pull that off twice in a row unless you have a WL to reset cd.

 

As FM I usually try to get grabbed in the first two heat phases and spam Q or E while I stay on the gorund. If ppl want to get the heat buff they can run over. If not, the moment knockdown ends my iframe triggers so I don't get hit by Yeti's jump. Then I turn around and stun it. Even if someone did not get the heat buff from me or Yeti, he will just be frozen after the jump so we loose some dps but nobody dies.

 

3 hours ago, Zedonia said:

That's right but if no one says that he doesnt know it and even if you talk to them they dont answer, you have to assume that they know it. Do you ask everyone in all your groups if they know the dungeon? Yeti is so old content. If you dont know what to do you have to say that. No one will ask you if you know it for a dungeon what was released several months ago.

 

For high level/AP players I usually assume they have done the boss a few times and even if they don't know the mechanics well, they usually know what not to do...
 

If I'm with a low level/AP group I usually ask if everyone knows what to do if there is something to really mess up like Yeti and Gloomdross. While some ppl don't tell that they have no idea, often at least someone asks. If nobody asks, I give 2 or 3 basic rules if we wipe on the first try.

 

From my experience most players won't be able and willing to follow a full mechanics breakdown - reading or watching guides often does not help as well as ppl tend to forget some parts. If you want them to do something specific, make it 2 or 3 simple rules like "when boss does X (don't) do Y".

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25 minutes ago, Slyce said:

It's the other way around - frost armor for up to 5 and sheath the last 3.

This will allow the party to iframe the jump after the stomps. A little lag will mess this up though and 5 stomps in Frost Armor needs good timing. Better get Yeti down to 5 or 6 stomps if you want the FM to save. Also unless your party is low dps, the FM can't pull that off twice in a row unless you have a WL to reset cd.

It's a maximum of 7 hits from Yeti when he aborbs 8x ice. If you count the aoe before it's 8. using ice tab before he uses the aoe will grant you resist to that and 4 hits. Sheeth will save all from the last 3 then. If the fm is not sure about everything or has lags he can simply run on one ice field to reduce it to 6 hits. Yeti also does a longer Rotation after the first ice attacks. Tab won#t be on cd for the next wave no matter how you dps him. Currently it doesn't even matter because you need very weak group to do him that twice.

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  • 1 year later...
On 10/23/2016 at 2:27 PM, Malign said:

Okay so hear me out on this. I just finished up a 1 hour run of a yeti 6 man and it has become apparent to me that people need to brush up on their boss mechanics and party playing skills. There is no reason why it should take 7 or more tries to kill yeti once in 6 man. So heres my take on the situation.

 

First of all if you don't know how to do a boss tell your party. I cannot stress this enough tell your party. Not knowing how to do the boss mechanics will often lead to a wipe regardless if youre the one doing the actual mechanics or not. More often than not someone will explain it to you.

 

Second, speak up. If someone is talking to you respond. when someone is trying to carry everyone through but no one wants to even acknowledge they are there it become really frustrating. If you don't speak english say so. This way the party at least knows that you're not ignoring them or trolling.

 

Third, look up boss mechanics. Tbh i wish we could create some stickied guides on some of the game bosses. At the very least the easy ones which could have short guides that people can read. Learning the boss mechanics can be a challenge if you don't understand why a boss is doing something. To use the yeti example, we had a 600ap sin in our party who had aggro who kept getting grabbed by yeti during the heat phase. I was the only one who knew what to do when someone gets grabbed, so we had 4 dead party members after each round of heat. We also had some party members who didn't know how to cc a boss properly.

 

Finally, stop being lazy and do the mechanics. I often see people get too relaxed at something like yeti just because of their ap or they have a good party. Party wipes due to failed mechanics waste everyones time including yours. Idc if you're maxing your dps or not, just make sure that the cc mechanics work out.

 

So yeah this was kind of a rant, but i think the community really needs to sure up its mechanical skill and start talking again. People are much nicer if you ask before the party wipes, and while some people can be rude, we all had to learn boss mechanics a first time. Once you learn the bosses mechanics, you can handle it on any class without much extra practice.

Nobody's probably going to read this (sorry it’s so long) But I hope someone does. I am not trying to start drama or get people angry I just wanted to state my point of view, and was wondering if there is anyone that feels the same way. This response may be complicated but this is how I feel.

 

I think this is a good point, and by the sound of it this could be really annoying, but I feel that I could never really truly understand this since I’m one of those people that don’t learn boss mechanics or build up the courage to tell party members that I don’t know them considering that even if they do explain the mechanics to me I would still be like “nani?” Anyway what I’m trying to say is that at the end of the day I just want to play the game and have fun... it sucks that I have to spend so much time watching guides, and then take time to memorize, when I could just be playing the game. Especially since I’m so quick to forget things. And I know this is cowardly but it’s a terrible feeling when you feel pressured to do everything “right”. I understand that there are actually nice people out there that can help you, but the pressure doesn’t come from them it comes from me holding them back (or feeling of me holding them back) and the fact that each time I wait in f8 I feel nervous and then feel embarrassed after running the dungeon. 

 

It’s gotten to the point that the game is almost hard to play (and I’ve been avoiding playing for a while), it’s no longer fun, but I have such great memories with this game that they are the only things that keep bringing me back every 2-4 months or so. It’s sad to think that I have been playing this game even before it’s na release and still haven’t ran most of the dungeons it has, it’s also sad that throughout those years I haven’t done a single raid all because I didn’t want to be a huge let down. Surely I could watch a guide or read up on the mechs so that I could actually do all those things... and what spent all my game time on something I’ll probably forget an hour into the game. The game feels like a routine, it’s so static that I can’t even play how I want to, I can’t just blindly run a dungeon anymore and figure out things through my own experience because most people already know what to do (they don’t have the patience for a newb) and my first run will just be a waste of time for everyone. If I do that I risk getting through some content I would like to try. Pressure comes weighing in on me, so I end up not running the dungeon.

 

I remember running a dungeon with my guild mates and they were such nice people. For the life of me I could not understand what they were telling me, what I had to do; in the end I only held them back and did nothing. I was so embarrassed I was doing nothing for that guild, so I left. Nowadays it just feels like there is only a right way to play, if I don’t follow that rotation, I’m playing the class wrong and thus I suck at it, if I don’t play this dungeon this way, then I’m doing it wrong and holding people back, if I don’t do this or that or whatever I’ll never reach endgame, I’ll always be kicked from a parties, I’ll never have high ap; whatever it is, I’ll always be doing it wrong. I’m no veteran, but I am a person who loves to play and even to this day I’ve still been finding a game to replace blade and soul to no avail because blade and soul ,despite its flaws, will always be one of my favorite games.

 

After getting through all that I would like to finally say thank you for listening to my side of the story.

NOTE: I’m not trying to be corny, I’m just socially awkward and shy.

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tl;dr

 

Just kidding. I hear where your coming from. When I returned to the game after being gone for a year, I was afraid to set foot in any dungeon that required any real mechanics out of fear that I'd be shunned by the other party members because of my ineptitude. The outdated videos on youtube didn't help because they were made for a level 50 audience and I quickly realized that a lot of them were a waste of time - a few level 55s could just go in and dps the crap out of everything. My first experience in shattered masts, even though I knew what to be aware of, was a quick death and being left behind - no one even bothered to revive me (I wasn't aware of that particular part, but I always make sure I've got revival charms with me now).

 

I got around the problem by leveling a new alt that was a "non-essential" class (I'll let you guess), so I didn't have to tank, soul burn, party protect, or anything else that was special; just attack as best as I could and watch what was happening so that I'd have a better handle on the mechanics when I went back on my main.

 

If I did get some flak from the other party members I'd apologize and say "sorry, I'm a noob" unless it became personal, in which case I'd just say "I don't like to be called <fill-in-the-blank>" and then leave the party. I don't remember the people I party up with for more than a few minutes anyway and odds are they don't really remember my generic, non-descriptive name, so it's not like someone is keeping a score card. Someone may remember for a few days that your the idiot that caused the party to wipe in xyz, but that, like everyone's soul, is fleeting and will be gone very, very soon. :smirk:

 

Anyway, I place a higher worth on my contribution to the party than I should, but if you screw up you screw up and there's always tomorrow and you can try again. If you're having fun who cares? If your not having fun, take the serious attitude and toss it in the trash.

 

Whatever dude, I'm rambling, just wanted you to know that someone actually read your post. :D:

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Thank you so much I really appreciate your words. And your so right as long as I’m having fun that’s all that should matter to me. Maybe someday I’ll stop constantly making alts, (and you don’t even know, I have sooooo many; what can I say I just love character creation), and actually invest time on my main.

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You can always familiarize yourself with boss attacks in the training room. The only thing it can't teach you about bosses, are their more complex mechs. But if you train in there, that should eliminate any anxiety which most likely prevents you and lots of other players forget a guide the moment you see the boss.

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