if I can't beat Samja should I give up on warlock?

[LadyBlackFyre]

same question as the title, if I can't beat Samja should I give up on warlock?

[Raizou]

What level you are?

[LadyBlackFyre]

lvl 36 I've gotten him down to 20% but if I mess up once it's pretty much over for me. Basically I'm wondering if I can't handle him should I give up since this is my alt and I know much harder fights are coming up later in the game. With my style of trying to play (I main a blade master and have a force master)  and Warlocks only iframe being backstep I have alot of trouble avoiding damage. While I can heal alot with wingstorm and criticals, it seems alot of my time is just spent running away blasting with lmb and rmb until I can root him down and blast him with wingstorm and dragon helix. 

[Whiteflashkevin]

46 minutes ago, LadyBlackFyre said:

lvl 36 I've gotten him down to 20% but if I mess up once it's pretty much over for me. Basically I'm wondering if I can't handle him should I give up since this is my alt and I know much harder fights are coming up later in the game. With my style of trying to play (I main a blade master and have a force master)  and Warlocks only iframe being backstep I have alot of trouble avoiding damage. While I can heal alot with wingstorm and criticals, it seems alot of my time is just spent running away blasting with lmb and rmb until I can root him down and blast him with wingstorm and dragon helix. 

Warlock is like that. Not tanky enough to withstand damage and not spamable enough for high dps. All classes have problem with the mid level game because you have some skills that have yet to be unlocked for full rotation and enemies start getting tougher. In warlock case this is multiplied by 100. Trust me i couldn't solo green dungeons when i entered moonwater area.

The reason for that is that warlock needs a lot of skills to at least be efficient in the late game. Rotation is way harder without hm skills because of the extremely long cd and over reliance on crit chance being high. At that level your strongest buff is locked and your pet is really useless against pve opponents either for aggro or for defense unlike summoner cat. Just give up, swallow your pride and ask for party. At this level you are basically just dead weight in any party. You are neither for dps nor buff at mid level. 

Even at high level warlock is just a party buff for speedrun. They have degraded him into support dps basically just another bag puncher extra.

[Dresmyr]

2 hours ago, Whiteflashkevin said:

Warlock is like that. Not tanky enough to withstand damage and not spamable enough for high dps. All classes have problem with the mid level game because you have some skills that have yet to be unlocked for full rotation and enemies start getting tougher. In warlock case this is multiplied by 100. Trust me i couldn't solo green dungeons when i entered moonwater area.

The reason for that is that warlock needs a lot of skills to at least be efficient in the late game. Rotation is way harder without hm skills because of the extremely long cd and over reliance on crit chance being high. At that level your strongest buff is locked and your pet is really useless against pve opponents either for aggro or for defense unlike summoner cat. Just give up, swallow your pride and ask for party. At this level you are basically just dead weight in any party. You are neither for dps nor buff at mid level. 

Even at high level warlock is just a party buff for speedrun. They have degraded him into support dps basically just another bag puncher extra.

Warlock needs significant investment to be good, but once it gets there it is great. at level 36 you can do decent damage since you should have leech and rupture by then, so you can do your combo, I think the only skill you are missing is the obliterate to respec to soulburn or time distort. so, while you cant have any HM skills for the combos, you can still do a basic dragoncall build and have decent dps. with investment you can have really good dps, I have slightly worse gear than one of my clans FMs with good ping, but do more damage because WL has such potential with the HM skills.

[Whiteflashkevin]

Just now, Dresmyr said:

Warlock needs significant investment to be good, but once it gets there it is great. at level 36 you can do decent damage since you should have leech and rupture by then, so you can do your combo, I think the only skill you are missing is the obliterate to respec to soulburn or time distort. so, while you cant have any HM skills for the combos, you can still do a basic dragoncall build and have decent dps. with investment you can have really good dps, I have slightly worse gear than one of my clans FMs with good ping, but do more damage because WL has such potential with the HM skills.

Warlock outDPS FM LOL. We're not playing the same game then. Warlock gets decent after getting shit ton of HM skills and legendary badges. Look Koran full gear warlock clear mushin floor 20 in seconds but if enemy survives first burst the downtime is the biggest drawback for warlock dps. You can solo faster with any other class than with warlock if u had the same gear. The fact that this class cant spam abilities like other classes is the biggest factor in the lack of warlock dps.

[Dresmyr]

I think you might not be doing a good rotation if you arent spamming enough abilities, my average dps is 20-21k without having my legendaries yet (Fm i was talking about is stage 3 baleful) I usually only outdps him by a few hundred, but yeah, with a good rotation and high crit with all your HM skills you will outscale.

[Whiteflashkevin]

need my sb buff to get 20 but my ping is horrible and i need to upgrade some accessories. But still i have seen fm and sum do 40k no sweat with a bit more ap than me 680 or something like that

[Dresmyr]

I only ever see people breach 40k with SB and blue or another buff active at the same time. I just did desolate tomb with the FM in question, and up until the first grab (DPS after this is super biased due to me being the marker and them being a 3) I had 20,212 dps, and they had 20,150 So thats a slight outdps, but thats with them having better gear.

[Ganhur]

Just because you're bad in early game, does not mean you will stay incompetent for the rest of your time with that class.

I don't remember beating Samja dungeon with any class I played. Yet, I tank can pretty much every boss Tomb or Citadel with my Warlock with less than 1.8k defense and 57k HP (which is low compared to those who I've ran 4man endgame Heroic with). Just be patient with your own failures and learn to get better.

 

@ Everyone Else

There's more than just dps you can have fun with the class. Everytime I see people complains about WL, it's always either pvp or dps. Just find another way of have fun and be competitive about. I love this class simply because I can enjoy the game without caring about animation cancel, and that is pretty much the only reason, of course because it has block too.

And if you want good DPS with warlock, get more critical, not AP. If you know your class well, you should know warlock is most dependable on critical rate more than any other class for game play and dps.

[Whiteflashkevin]

Just now, Ganhur said:

There's more than just dps you can have fun with the class. Everytime I see people complains about WL, it's always either pvp or dps. Just find another way of have fun and be competitive about. I love this class simply because I can enjoy the game without caring about animation cancel, and that is pretty much the only reason, of course because it has block too.

And if you want good DPS with warlock, get more critical, not AP. If you know your class well, you should know warlock is most dependable on critical rate more than any other class for game play and dps.

No the class is really fun in the way it plays it just feels like it isn't as rewarding. Doing solo with this class means you need to block a lot but that comes at the expense of dps since this class is all about setup. If you dont take advantage of leach then DPS will suffer greatly. Reliance on crit is insane. i dont think any class has such need for crit as warlock. 4 being your main dps on both helix and DC will suffer a lot of dps drop if it doesn't crit all the time. Dark build becomes a whole lot more spamable later with the legendary badges but requires good ping and ice build needs some serious buffs if it wants to catch up to it. 

It also requires more escapes with Q and E cause the only use they get is with thrall out and in pve situation Q and E for pet is nearly useless 99% of the time. They neither shield nor protect. Just one back-step isn't going to do it with some enemy attack pattern like yeti. Warlock early game is like a cripple in a 100m dash marathon.

[SoulsHunter]

I agree with Ganhur, never managed to clear Samja with my level 36 FM or KFM. Samja is a KFM himself while he summons 2 FMs. Melee and ranged combined its only natural its very very hard.

 

PS: KFM rely on crits a lot too, yes it was hell levelling it with all the range mobs in cinderlands. But you have to accept that not all classes are DPS class. You chose a non-dps class you have to accept it. If you want to try a rewarding DPS class create an alt FM like I did.

[Ganhur]

7 hours ago, Whiteflashkevin said:

It also requires more escapes with Q and E cause the only use they get is with thrall out and in pve situation Q and E for pet is nearly useless 99% of the time. They neither shield nor protect. Just one back-step isn't going to do it with some enemy attack pattern like yeti. Warlock early game is like a cripple in a 100m dash marathon.

Actually you can tank Yeti as warlock without barely throw any block (except for that one uppercut like move). You can simply just kite it like an FM, even with dragoncall build. Same with most boss in game. The only boss I can't tank is last boss of Ebondrake Citadel since his attacks are too quick and somewhat unpredictable for me.

[Tatsuhime]

iirc samja is a blue dungeon, not green, you should not be able to solo it unless you're above the recommended level. just ask for help in faction chat or get a friend to come with you. as far as WL i-frames go, you can put two points in your bastion(z) and get 5 secs of invulnerability, use thrall to initiate with a taunt(q) and begin your rotation then soul shackles(2) to snare and when it runs out use tether blade(x) to knockdown. if you have the points you can spec chains on your backstep (easy snare every 6 secs), and most importantly you need to abuse your quell even if it means losing out on dps. quell blocks all projectiles from the front and it can block all yellow attacks, if you see a red attack just ss away or press z. fights may take a while but you will chip away at their hp and come out victorious!

[Raizou]

18 minutes ago, Tatsuhime said:

iirc samja is a blue dungeon, not green

Correction: Samja IS a green dungeon in cinderlands.

 

http://bladeandsoul.gamepedia.com/Bogkon_Hideout

[Shuchin]

Even though it is true that very good skill knowledge will give you The Power (^.^') in BnS and allow you to do crazy solo achievements on bosses, this is not normal when you play the class for the first time.

 

Yes, if I would reroll a KFM now and level to Samja I would be able to solo him.

 

But, when I met Samja for the first time I also could not beat him on my KFM. Not until I was lvl 36.

 

Which brings me to my point: What about your gear? Lvl 36 is a huge boost usually, which should make the Bokdon fight manageable.

 

Do a handful of Tomb runs for a complete Sacrifice set, upgrade it with crit from valour stone #8 tiles (those can max crit it I think). Upgrade your weapon and  accessories to Awakened Infernal 5 and you should not be having any trouble any more. ^_^

[SoulsHunter]

With that gear you are technically level 42 though. And asking him to get carried in Tomb for those gears may depress him even more. OP seems to be used to challenging these dungeon at correct gear, the problem is he could not do it with warlock. It would be great if somebody who succeeded would give him some tips.

[Whiteflashkevin]

9 hours ago, Ganhur said:

Actually you can tank Yeti as warlock without barely throw any block (except for that one uppercut like move). You can simply just kite it like an FM, even with dragoncall build. Same with most boss in game. The only boss I can't tank is last boss of Ebondrake Citadel since his attacks are too quick and somewhat unpredictable for me.

Yeah buy yeti has this annoying habit of jumping to you if you go to far and with shitty ping you cant avoid most red aoe and if you backstep to avoid it he will jump again. But right now i don't thing warlock can solo yeti at all. Fm might be able to or even the current bm but not warlock. They said this class was going to be a glass canon but it doesn't hit as hard as they claimed it to do, so they changed it to support dps.

You can definitively tank with warlock but it comes at the cost of your dps. I have tanked at 4 man asura but there are better classes for that. Warlock isn't made for aggro since your strongest bombard for pve gives no threat and in DC build that is 1/3 of your total damage just with bombard that is not registered. Fm can keep pelting the boss with dps even while in aggro because of the easily spamable skills and escapes. 

 

You can tell that they realized how much of a mess is to do rotation with warlock because most of legendary badges like the recent one helps with the spamming of abilities in leach state. The future ones help with shortening the insane downtime of warlock main dps skills.

Look at the changes of now awakened skills for warlock. You will be spamming only 2 buttons during soulburn now:

1. Awakened bombard will give you the same benefits as rupture making rupture useless during soulburn state and bombard will even make dc and wingstorm insta-cast on hit.

2. Awakened volley will give you 3 orbs per hit making warlock a spam character like fm with pressing RMB and 4 all the time in this state.

New warlock rotation is now RMB 4 in soulburn.

This is the new warlock.(also a little demonstration on warlock potential in endgame full gear) This is all about the first few sec of dps. https://youtu.be/ogNRXiYd0Yo?t=1618

[Ganhur]

1 hour ago, Whiteflashkevin said:

Yeah buy yeti has this annoying habit of jumping to you if you go to far and with shitty ping you cant avoid most red aoe and if you backstep to avoid it he will jump again. But right now i don't thing warlock can solo yeti at all. Fm might be able to or even the current bm but not warlock. They said this class was going to be a glass canon but it doesn't hit as hard as they claimed it to do, so they changed it to support dps.

 

Since our conversation is off topic, I'd like to make last quick comment:

You do not jump out of red AoE zone, you SS INTO it. It'll maintain close range with the boss, and reset your 2 most powerful skills. And if you're in Siphon buff, it is more reason to SS right into the aoe instead of avoiding it.

[Quantum]

21 hours ago, SoulsHunter said:

I agree with Ganhur, never managed to clear Samja with my level 36 FM or KFM. Samja is a KFM himself while he summons 2 FMs. Melee and ranged combined its only natural its very very hard.

 

PS: KFM rely on crits a lot too, yes it was hell levelling it with all the range mobs in cinderlands. But you have to accept that not all classes are DPS class. You chose a non-dps class you have to accept it. If you want to try a rewarding DPS class create an alt FM like I did.

Pretty much this, the only classes I was able to solo this dungeon with was my Summoner and Assassin and I barely was able to beat it on my summoner. Any other classes will most likely have a hard time with this boss at that dungeon's level.

[Shuchin]

On 10 October 2016 at 2:35 PM, SoulsHunter said:

With that gear you are technically level 42 though. And asking him to get carried in Tomb for those gears may depress him even more. OP seems to be used to challenging these dungeon at correct gear, the problem is he could not do it with warlock. It would be great if somebody who succeeded would give him some tips.

You can wear up to True Infernal with lvl 36, only Awakened Profane needs lvl 42. But I was only suggesting Awakened Infernal (lvl 5, for 10 you need the Lycan weapon) because you can get that after a single Tomb of Exiles run from the weapon chest with your brilliant cinderlands key.

Also there is no need to get carried at all: Tomb of Exiles is a group dungeon, and any group of 6 people can easily complete it, especially nowadays where campaign quests boost your level disproportionately. Of course, using a random pick up group on the cross server will likely result in overkill, so I can understand if that's not everyone's idea of fun.

 

Anyway maybe we are getting sidetracked here. LadyBlackFyre just wanted to know if she should stop playing a warlock because she could not beat Samja at level and later fights are supposedly even tougher. I guess the simple answer is:

 

No, Samja is unusually tough for many classes to solo at level, this is no indication you will be doing badly later on. As gear and class knowledge improve, many of the future fights will actually be much easier than this one.

 

 

[Whiteflashkevin]

On 10/10/2016 at 9:16 PM, Ganhur said:

Since our conversation is off topic, I'd like to make last quick comment:

You do not jump out of red AoE zone, you SS INTO it. It'll maintain close range with the boss, and reset your 2 most powerful skills. And if you're in Siphon buff, it is more reason to SS right into the aoe instead of avoiding it.

Yeah i know but that ping tho. It doesn't listen to me. The biggest problem is warlock tab escape or the regular escape in general that pushes you back just enough for the *cricket* to jump at you again.

 

Anyway yeah back on topic all classes have problem with dungeons in the mid levels where they haven't yet unlocked all critical skills and dungeons just start getting harder and harder beginning with cinderlands.

Warlock especially is very lacking in those mid levels since your rotation is weird that way. Sins for example have a rotation of rmb and F since the early levels and just build to make it stronger and smoother each level but in warlocks case you don't have spamming abilities since this class is a cooldown management and has cast time on his main dps(only class who has this) that it needs to eliminate to do smooth dps(dragoncall cast time 2.5s more than enough to get you killed). That makes this class dps suffer a lot when you don't have all the right skills help you with canceling cast time so you can quickly do into defense.(that is why most warlocks go for helix at low levels since it is more easy to play with,It is also stronger at really high levels but i just prefer DC build that is less ping reliant and more fun).

 

 Overall warlock is weird compared to the other classes in this game but that is also why people like this so much. Having more awareness of what you do is what makes it challenging and fun. The rotation is a bit like dark build sin that requires full attention to do good. Its entirely up to you if you like how it plays and decide to stick with it or drop it if you like to have a class that gives more results. 

 

1 thing I'll say to anyone who wants to pick up warlock is that this class has the "FUN" seal of approval if you like to try a class that has a different playstyle than the standard 2 button spam.