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Fire BM and BM buff


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I always knew BM needed some sort of buff. But why were BMs buffed this hard? They can literally use 2 skills and deal 40% of everybody's HP in arena regardless of class.not to mention their ridiculous amount of charge skills and immunity frames...... like how is this even fair anymore?

BM advantage: 

   Grab Break (separate from their TAB escape)

   Spammable High dmg output 40-60% HP at a time

   multiple charge skills

   spammable block

   refreshable immunity frames (HM block)

   multiple immunity frames (even more than BD)

   Long range stun that pulls......AOE stun...... (broken)

   Range Resist (really? highly defensive and high dps MELEE class with range resist???????)

   AGAIN.... WHY THE *cricket* ARE BMS ALLOWED TO DEAL 40-60% HP IN ARENA IN 2 SKILLS/2 SECONDS???????

 

Like yeah, the class was relatively weak. but come on NCSoft these skill update for BM are *cricket*ing stupid.... they didnt need to be the highest dps pvp class while still BOASTING 1 of the best defensive kit in the *cricket*ing game: q-e, spammable block, refreshing HM block, multiple iFrames etc.... all the defense dont bother me one bit but when they can instagib u like that and deal 40-60% HP per *cricket*ing stun is broken.... and how many stuns do they have??? LOADS......

 

BMs right now are basically BD+KFM+Destroyer all bundled in one.... this is *cricket*ing stupid man.

 

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Fire BMs are powerful... only if you let them hit you. They have significant weaknesses: they lose several CCs for their build (they only have one CC in Draw Stance with Flicker, one CC in Flock of Blades stance with Lightning Retribution, and Raid charge as a CC extender), and their Dragontongue needs two things: a set up from Lunar Slash, and they need to be in Draw Stance. You literally just Tab the Lunar Slash, and then they've lost their go-to-kill and can't do anything to you but stall.

 

For your other issues with BM:

  • Grab Break: Flock of Blades is meant to be used tactically, they can't just waste it since it disables most of their skills, including their sword pull.
  • multiple charge skills: They have four, two in Basic and two in Draw. One of their basic charges sacrifices an iframe, one in Draw is a CC extender, and the other in draw is a very short iframe that can be interrupted in its later animation, so realistically they only have one.
  • spammable block: They need to be in Basic stance, and if they spam it just throw your guard break.
  • refreshable immunity frames (HM block): Hit them three times, or just run away and wait until it goes away. It has a very long cooldown so they can't just waste it.

  • multiple immunity frames (even more than BD): SS? Everyone has that. Q/E? Both share the same cooldown unless in Draw Stance for E, which removes said stance. Five-Point Strike? Doesn't cover the later part of the animation. Shoulder Charge? They need to be in Basic Stance. Cyclone? Don't hit into their block or Five-Point Strike and Shoulder Charge iframes, and it removes Draw Stance.

  • Long range stun that pulls......AOE stun...... (broken): Then iframe it or throw up a projectile negation field. It has a one minute cooldown so they can't waste it carelessly.

  • Range Resist (really? highly defensive and high dps MELEE class with range resist???????): They need to be in Flock of Blades stance to use it, and they need to use Flock of Blades tactically.

  • AGAIN.... WHY THE *cricket* ARE BMS ALLOWED TO DEAL 40-60% HP IN ARENA IN 2 SKILLS/2 SECONDS???????: DON'T LET THEM SET IT UP, SIMPLE AS THAT.

Seriously, learn the matchup. A lot of skills they cannot use on the fly or they waste stance cycles and that's inefficient. Fire BMs are incredibly easy to counter if you know what to watch out for, that's why you see Lightning BMs instead in the higher ranks.

Edited by Shadovvv
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@Shadovvv

Firebuild setup is way easier as it does not need flock of blade for chi substain. Lightning build only really ever matches firebuild while flock of blades or blade call including the x lighting buff are active. Fire most of the time has way easier setups as they do not need to worry at all about chi. Lunar slash needs no setup. You just use it and do damage. If you dont have it you dont use it. The only time where you ever worry about that is when you are cct you (might) want to wait with escaping until your lunar slash is ready. Other then that who cares.

Flock of blades is never really a lyability and when it is you can just cancel is with your y skill. You can also y pull into flock as you dont instantly enter draw stance and then use your x and kill them in a 5 seconds stun pretty much if their tab is down.

They dont loose plenty of cc either. They loose 1 cc.

 

It is way easier and often way better to play fire build. Even though bm played well is not even op because of firebuild, but they are since they got y pull hm. And that got wayyyy easier to use properly with firebuild as you can just pull > tab and start spamming rb.

Edited by N3ro
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*Only when u guys letting fire BM hit you? Seriously, learn the matchup u say?* This literally an argument from BM player that know their classes are OP but dont want their class get balanced lol. 

 

Any classes, if u let them hit u, is always hurt. Who can stay alive while 20 sec standing doing nothing when any of classes hit u? No. 100% will died. But your classes (BM), only need practically 4 sec to kill a standing still opponents and other classes will take longer than that. What's that means then? If u get caught by MISTAKE for 2 or 3 sec, u will either died or getting 3/4 hp burned down. If we get caught by other classes for 2 or 3 sec? Lol, only 25-40% of hp. See summoner for simple example. They cat pinned u down for 4 sec, u cant do anything besides tab, when your tab at cooldown, they will literally burn 40% of the opponents hp. But when we get caught by BM? And our tab was on CD? Did we can survive? 

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6 minutes ago, Qei said:

*Only when u guys letting fire BM hit you? Seriously, learn the matchup u say?* This literally an argument from BM player that know their classes are OP but dont want their class get balanced lol. 

 

Any classes, if u let them hit u, is always hurt. Who can stay alive while 20 sec standing doing nothing when any of classes hit u? No. 100% will died. But your classes (BM), only need practically 4 sec to kill a standing still opponents and other classes will take longer than that. What's that means then? If u get caught by MISTAKE for 2 or 3 sec, u will either died or getting 3/4 hp burned down. If we get caught by other classes for 2 or 3 sec? Lol, only 25-40% of hp. See summoner for simple example. They cat pinned u down for 4 sec, u cant do anything besides tab, when your tab at cooldown, they will literally burn 40% of the opponents hp. But when we get caught by BM? And our tab was on CD? Did we can survive? 

English.

But meh... i can see what ur saying..... its kinda ridiculous... if am not mistaken HMz pull is like 2 seconds stun time and if it hits u they literally deal 40-60% of ur HP depending on ur class and base Defense.... for Destroyer its closer to the 40% and for classes like summ and FM its more on the 50-60% side since their defense are lower. so again... stun once? lose 40-60% HP... tab that? LUL > get raped lose 100% HP

 

@Shadovvvas alot of ppl have pointed out, the problem is the simplicity of their setup... its not a case of: stun > deal small dps > tech chase > deal decent/huge dps > more tech chase > kill opponent.

its literally : stun > deal HUGE dps > tech chase > deal more HUGE dps/ kill opponent > tech chase > kill opponent.....

look at the difference...

1 of them is basically : play the game and beat ur opponent by being better.

the other is literally: stun hurrdurp > i dont need to play or be better than u, just press few skills and win without caring bout mechanics... like really?

 

like i recently started paying attention to my summoner, and everytime i BM cant kill me... he looks at my cat and it just flat out dies in 2 stuns... not even time to use Crouching Tiger/Taunt... stealth cat? welp just put Dandylion on a 8 sec cooldown and time for me to get raped.... and summoners "counter" BMs. *cricket*ing broken.

i wont even comment on playing BD or destroyer against these guys. this update man.

 

Even in summoner hayday when game just release they had to do some semblance of work to win the match granted it wasnt as much as sins/bd/kfm but they had to PLAY the game... these guys just stun u and press 2 skills and game over. 

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BM conflagration tab should be 24-36 sec cooldown instead the 16-18 sec right now. In PvP the BM problem is the frequency they can do their dps burst phase. Im not even talking about the x on flock of blades.. u can be like surprise another conflagration 3meter aoe fire dps burst surprise! just activated ur iframe on the second (surprise) wave of conflagration and most game are over.

BM needed love for dps but the frequency is way to high in PvP.

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  • 11 months later...

I would like to see bms with those soul fighters q/e escapes on range stance to iframe far attacks, because bms are agile only near opponent, adding those iframes can fix this problem...

Edited by Lpturbo
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6 hours ago, Lpturbo said:

I would like to see bms with those soul fighters q/e escapes on range stance to iframe far attacks, because bms are agile only near opponent, adding those iframes can fix this problem...

Or they just buff their f block and 2 charge in draw stance instead. They could make the 2 charge at least undeflectable, or even just making it an iframe, so they can get up close with it mostly unpunished to then use q/e, or at least make it so your 2 does not end your ss iframe like penta slash. Maybe even make it pierce defence so people cant woodblock or seed shroud it.

 

 

Ande fblock in draw stance is really odd to proc, because you have to flicker first most of the time when the block would be useful and u dont want to do that when your flicker stun is active and then its just a normal but shorter block and the only thing it does over regular block is that you keep draw stance. Basically, there is almost never a reason to use it other than style points. The only thing i can think of is against destro, blocking throw and then you can keep spamming e to not get your q on cd when they charge you. Making it an offensive block would be a start so you can use it when inflicted by moths for instance. And you cant get block broken by a lot of skills then with it.

Edited by N3ro
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