You don't know how good you got it

[God Himself]

Coming from other MMOs like WoW, Perfect World, Lunia, Aika, Priston Tale and whatnot, I would just like to tell the people that complain about the game in this forum: you don't know how good you got it.

This is one of the most forgiving, balanced, unexpensive, straight up EASY, quality MMO's in the market. But I shouldn't say "in the martket", cause it's also F2P.

You can retrain your skills for free in 20 seconds time, while in most games you have to pay cash for it, and in some other games you have to grind the skills in order to level them up.
Your items do not break or retrocede during evolution. In most other games you have to buy some sort of catalyst and break-prevention gem to have a better chance of not losing your god damned item.
Hongmoon weapons and accessories give every player an opportunity to have the best end game items. It's all up to the player.
You market system that allows you to make gold at the same time you farm stuff to sell later - which is not groundbreaking, but is one of the details that add up to make this game so convenient and forgiving.
PvP is balanced for noobs: items are not allowed, equipments do not count.
Between many other things that I'm still discovering while playing on my level 50 blade master... Which by the way, I got to level 50 in 4 *cricket*ing days.

So if you have any complaints about this game regarding difficulty, drop rates, weapon cost, bla bla bla, anything that is not a technical issue, you really should not be playing MMO's. You don't know how *cricket*ing expensive it is to have a fighting chance in most other games out there... You don't know what the grinding is. You don't know what is like to spend a week of farming to get half a percent to the next level. So please guys, realize what a piece of cake this game is and be thankful. Trust me, it only gets harder out there.

[SoulsHunter]

I don't know about others, but my issue is actually there is no max AP cap for dungeons. How am I supposed to play a game when I enter a level 45 dungeon but my party is filled with 50hm8 with their crazy AP? I imagine it will be same for the lower level 50 dungeons. I got carried, that's all. So I'm supposed to be carried from now on all the way to endgame or all the way until I decide to quit the game? And during this process I will definitely meet people who will insult me while they are carrying me (calling me noob, leecher). Excuse me, you are overgeared of course you will not die, while me challenging the dungeon at correct gear have to deal with these lazy people who just want to dps down all the dungeon without really playing the game. Great experience in a game huh?

[Holybread]

+1 to this... i played cabal back in the days... and boy those grind days.... months of farming boss hunting and most of the time no profit at all... over here you go dg still get profit as you go... and yeah you will hit the legendary wall but it's not even needed at the moment for the content... and people only grind it for couple of weeks or lets say mons. but still they get a little profit out of it... on other games you go buy tickets to go farm a dg and comes out empty handed... lol - profit lol...

[God Himself]

7 minutes ago, SoulsHunter said:

I don't know about others, but my issue is actually there is no max AP cap for dungeons. How am I supposed to play a game when I enter a level 45 dungeon but my party is filled with 50hm8 with their crazy AP? I imagine it will be same for the lower level 50 dungeons. I got carried, that's all. So I'm supposed to be carried from now on all the way to endgame or all the way until I decide to quit the game? And during this process I will definitely meet people who will insult me while they are carrying me (calling me noob, leecher). Excuse me, you are overgeared of course you will not die, while me challenging the dungeon at correct gear have to deal with these lazy people who just want to dps down all the dungeon without really playing the game. Great experience in a game huh?

Maybe it's the way you approach it. Sometimes you have your mind set on doing dungeon when you should be out in the field doing dailies and gearing up some more. Or vice versa. Some other times you have to grind lower level dungeons just to get accessory offerings before you can progress further. I am probably newer than you to the game, but one thing I've realized in it is that when you're having difficulty going down a certain path there's always alternatives.

[Slyce]

53 minutes ago, SoulsHunter said:

I don't know about others, but my issue is actually there is no max AP cap for dungeons. How am I supposed to play a game when I enter a level 45 dungeon but my party is filled with 50hm8 with their crazy AP? I imagine it will be same for the lower level 50 dungeons. I got carried, that's all. So I'm supposed to be carried from now on all the way to endgame or all the way until I decide to quit the game? And during this process I will definitely meet people who will insult me while they are carrying me (calling me noob, leecher). Excuse me, you are overgeared of course you will not die, while me challenging the dungeon at correct gear have to deal with these lazy people who just want to dps down all the dungeon without really playing the game. Great experience in a game huh?

The HM 8 players complain about not having minimum AP requirements on lvl 50 dungeons...

For most of the 50+ dungeons high AP are not required if you do mechanics. But you have to expect 1-3 ppl in your party to neither know the mechanics nor being able to understand them (language barrier and/or brain capacity). While I had a few successful Yeti runs with low AP groups, in many runs half of the party died before the boss was down to 20%. In these cases higher AP helps a lot.

The latest dungeons are full of deadly mechanics and you can't brute force the bosses so endgame a HM8 with 600AP will be as good as a HM 15 with over 850AP.

Max AP cap would be a problem because you actually need some things from lower level dungeons.
Since the main story quest will carry you from lvl 1 to 50 HM4 within a few days, most players did not farm E.Fleet, Supply and Bloodshade for accessories but still upgraded their weapon. Also Machismo and/or Perfume are needed for every upgrade until True Oathbreaker. BSH drops skill books for skills that require runs of Nexus to actually learn.
Also many dungeons drop untradable costumes. With max AP you would have to stop leveling and gearing for days/weeks if you want that costume.

 

If you don't want to be carried in a dungeon, recruit your own party. Make a room for 300 or fewer AP (or something like that) and kick high AP entering your room.

[Shukran]

can we sticky this thread please mods?

[iritsuchan]

I'm not very experienced with other mmo's. The only mmo that I played a lot and spent money on is TERA. (Which also brought me to this game lol) 

It was behind frustrating trying to just 12+ an item, not to mention 15+. 

While in here, you just need the mats and you good to go. 

[KzE]

And still someone coming up with pre- 2010 grindfest titles. Its 2017 soon...

[Katu Kat]

7 minutes ago, KzE said:

And still someone coming up with pre- 2010 grindfest titles. Its 2017 soon...

Not only that. OP conveniently left out the crap rng the game has along with other ailments some people(not all) face, such as bad ping etc.

Imagine you're paying prem or spending on the game every month, your internet connection is god like, but you still have to turn around and pay for a vpn service to pvp high tier. No?

Spending money on a broken game only for them to shamelessly try to suck more money out of you by putting the good outfits into rng boxes while the reskinned outfits go up quickly in the cash shop for rotation. No? Not yet?

How about how exploiters and plagiarizers are dealt with such leniency , the pvp exploiters for example. Still no? Ok.

Not only that, op had 2 posts before with this thread being their third and this happens to be the topic they talk about. Not strange at all, just convenient. Like I said earlier, I'll just be here waiting for when they're giving out all the good stuff for next to nothing, when the game grinds to a complete standstill like the clogged drain it is.

[God Himself]

44 minutes ago, KzE said:

And still someone coming up with pre- 2010 grindfest titles. Its 2017 soon...

I've been away from MMO's for a long time. I'm just saying how it was back in the day.

30 minutes ago, K4t said:

Not only that. OP conveniently left out the crap rng the game has along with other ailments some people(not all) face, such as bad ping etc.

Imagine you're paying prem or spending on the game every month, your internet connection is god like, but you still have to turn around and pay for a vpn service to pvp high tier. No?

Spending money on a broken game only for them to shamelessly try to suck more money out of you by putting the good outfits into rng boxes while the reskinned outfits go up quickly in the cash shop for rotation. No? Not yet?

How about how exploiters and plagiarizers are dealt with such leniency , the pvp exploiters for example. Still no? Ok.

Not only that, op had 2 posts before with this thread being their third and this happens to be the topic they talk about. Not strange at all, just convenient. Like I said earlier, I'll just be here waiting for when they're giving out all the good stuff for next to nothing, when the game grinds to a complete standstill like the clogged drain it is.

I don't know what makes you think that stuff should be guaranteed and 100% certain? CS:GO has boxes, H1Z1 has boxes, Dota 2 has boxes. Every game out there has RNG. Listen to yourself. You're talking about OUTFITS that give no stats whatsoever and you think they should be certainty? I was actually surprised that I got such cool looking outfits while levelling up, like the Lycan and Burning Flames outfits. Those are the kinds of outfits that you would have to sell a liver to get in Dota 2. But you guys don't know any better. Outfits are a luxury, a commodity. For all I care you could walk around butt naked. Plus RNG is not something that brings a game to a standstill. If you actually think about it, it's quite the oposite! Certainty in drops is what brings a game to a standstill, cause it comes a point where everybody is guaranteed to eventually get EVERYTHING. The prices go down to the ground, everybody is walking around with godlike equipment and there is nothing else to accomplish. That, son, is a standstill.

[caioc2]

I couldnt agree more.

 

+1000

[God Himself]

When you spend 20 silver on the auction to get the Burning Flames outfit at level 38 and nobody bothers to outbid you, you know the drop rates are just fine.

[KzE]

19 minutes ago, God Himself said:

I've been away from MMO's for a long time. I'm just saying how it was back in the day.

I was a ragnarok online player, i know what is grinding for 0,01% cards or 0,02% exp for leveling. But this is the past. The market is transforming and gaming habits too. There are some players who like grind, but they are now a very small minority. RNG was always the part of content, but here the RNG is the only content.

[Katu Kat]

59 minutes ago, God Himself said:

I've been away from MMO's for a long time. I'm just saying how it was back in the day.

I don't know what makes you think that stuff should be guaranteed and 100% certain? CS:GO has boxes, H1Z1 has boxes, Dota 2 has boxes. Every game out there has RNG. Listen to yourself. You're talking about OUTFITS that give no stats whatsoever and you think they should be certainty? I was actually surprised that I got such cool looking outfits while levelling up, like the Lycan and Burning Flames outfits. Those are the kinds of outfits that you would have to sell a liver to get in Dota 2. But you guys don't know any better. Outfits are a luxury, a commodity. For all I care you could walk around butt naked. Plus RNG is not something that brings a game to a standstill. If you actually think about it, it's quite the oposite! Certainty in drops is what brings a game to a standstill, cause it comes a point where everybody is guaranteed to eventually get EVERYTHING. The prices go down to the ground, everybody is walking around with godlike equipment and there is nothing else to accomplish. That, son, is a standstill.

No its not. It breeds competition.

If there's only 100 or 50 people out of a server group of a few thousands that are top tier/fully geared and they constantly keep fighting each other and are the best all the time the game will burn out. It happened in other mmos and its happening here.

Look, even Imperial packed up shop(https://mmos.com/editorials/blade-and-souls-fading-esports-dream) because they know the shit already hit the fan. They saw the the game wont make good here in the west and its not because I and people like like minded as me want such a thing to happen, to think that is to be obtuse. 

As for your rng argument. Null and void. Nowhere did I say rng has to be 100% you're trying to pull a strawman tactic. I'm saying rng has to be worthwhile, I'm sure in other successful titles the rng is designed in such a way where it balances the grind and the goal. The rng in bns is abysmal but you cannot run from it, you have to face it in order to do the rest of content which is foolishness. Improve it for lower level content thats needed the end content rng can still be as high as they want to prevent your, still unlikely, scenario of burnout/standstill.

[xxxAoi]

7 minutes ago, KzE said:

I was a ragnarok online player, i know what is grinding for 0,01% cards or 0,02% exp for leveling. But this is the past. The market is transforming and gaming habits too. There are some players who like grind, but they are now a very small minority. RNG was always the part of content, but here the RNG is the only content.

I guess you're speaking on behalf of the westerners. Same tactics of old-fashioned grinding is still common in other Asian MMO's. I also played Ragnarok Online but heck the grinding was way MORE worth it than other games nowadays when everytime you level up you get lots of freebies. I still go back and play RO whenever I like and it's even older than most known MMOs here now.

[God Himself]

3 minutes ago, K4t said:

No its not. It breeds competition.

If there's only 100 or 50 people out of a server group of a few thousands that are top tier/fully geared and they constantly keep fighting each other and are the best all the time the game will burn out. It happened in other mmos and its happening here.

Look, even Imperial packed up shop because they know the shit already hit the fan. They saw the the game wont make good here in the west and its not because I and people like like minded as me want such a thing to happen, to think that is to be obtuse. 

As for your rng argument. Null and void. Nowhere did I say rng has to be 100% you're trying to pull a strawman tactic. I'm saying rng has to be worthwhile, I'm sure in other successful titles the rng is designed in such a way where it balances the grind and the goal. The rng in bns is abysmal but you cannot run from it, you have to face it in order to do the rest of content which is foolishness. Improve it for lower level content thats needed the end content rng can still be as high as they want to prevent your, still unlikely, scenario of burnout/standstill.

I personally think that the RNG in BNS is fine. I got the entire sacrifice soul shield in 4 runs of the Tomb of the Exiles. That's 8 pieces in 4 runs. I got the Lycan outfit on the fly, while passing by and doing quests. I progressed through the main story seemlessly getting all I needed and I already got all true infernal accessories on my BM with some 5 days of playing. Now maybe there's some godlike drops out there that are really, really rare and that's what you're talking about? If that's the case I'm all in favor that superpowered equipment continue to be rare cause I don't like godlike players walking all around. That's just my view at it. But in general I think that the RNG as now is completely fine and gives better odds than most games out there.

[xxxAoi]

54 minutes ago, K4t said:

Imagine you're paying prem or spending on the game every month, your internet connection is god like, but you still have to turn around and pay for a vpn service to pvp high tier. No?

You know sometimes I've been thinking if it's the ping that's the problem or the setup we use. I'm an ocean away where the ISP monopolizes every connection but I can still play just fine as if I am still in NA. Not to mention I don't use a VPN and my rig is not that even optimal for most games.

[Katu Kat]

7 minutes ago, God Himself said:

I personally think that the RNG in BNS is fine. I got the entire sacrifice soul shield in 4 runs of the Tomb of the Exiles. That's 8 pieces in 4 runs. I got the Lycan outfit on the fly, while passing by and doing quests. I progressed through the main story seemlessly getting all I needed and I already got all true infernal accessories on my BM with some 5 days of playing. Now maybe there's some godlike drops out there that are really, really rare and that's what you're talking about? If that's the case I'm all in favor that superpowered equipment continue to be rare cause I don't like godlike players walking all around. That's just my view at it. But in general I think that the RNG as now is completely fine and gives better odds than most games out there.

You're applying the rng scenario to your personal experience. Notice I haven't done that yet, I'm speaking in general, from the high end content to the low end content. From gem making's chance to fail to rng boxes that have all the good outfits. The rng isn't worthwhile yet you cant get ahead in the game without it, that is the problem.

Everyone and their mother knows the only reason for decreasing wep mats and now acc. mats is because they know people are saying no to their bullshit grind fest and are either leaving or just getting burned out. If people would actually keep the pressure up instead of bending over and being contented with mediocrity we could see a change in the rnging of the game. I'm not asking for a bloody handout. Just balance.

9 minutes ago, xxxAoi said:

You know sometimes I've been thinking if it's the ping that's the problem or the setup we use. I'm an ocean away where the ISP monopolizes every connection but I can still play just fine as if I am still in NA. Not to mention I don't use a VPN and my rig is not that even optimal for most games.

Yea. I for one dont get this bad ping problem I do 100-150ms in na and its grindable and pvpable for me. I'm speaking in general, I'm not applying what happens to me or my friends alone to everything and everyone thats called a bias.

[KzE]

17 minutes ago, xxxAoi said:

I guess you're speaking on behalf of the westerners. Same tactics of old-fashioned grinding is still common in other Asian MMO's. I also played Ragnarok Online but heck the grinding was way MORE worth it than other games nowadays when everytime you level up you get lots of freebies. I still go back and play RO whenever I like and it's even older than most known MMOs here now.

Its still common, but their market is transforming too towards mobas and mobile phone games.

 

18 minutes ago, God Himself said:

I personally think that the RNG in BNS is fine. I got the entire sacrifice soul shield in 4 runs of the Tomb of the Exiles. That's 8 pieces in 4 runs. I got the Lycan outfit on the fly, while passing by and doing quests. I progressed through the main story seemlessly getting all I needed and I already got all true infernal accessories on my BM with some 5 days of playing. Now maybe there's some godlike drops out there that are really, really rare and that's what you're talking about? If that's the case I'm all in favor that superpowered equipment continue to be rare cause I don't like godlike players walking all around. That's just my view at it. But in general I think that the RNG as now is completely fine and gives better odds than most games out there.

When you started this game?

[God Himself]

I'm in South America 8,369km away and I get 150ms LOL

[xxxAoi]

8 minutes ago, K4t said:

You're applying the rng scenario to your personal experience. Notice I haven't done that yet, I'm speaking in general, from the high end content to the low end content. From gem making's chance to fail to rng boxes that have all the good outfits. The rng isn't worthwhile yet you cant get ahead in the game without it, that is the problem.

Everyone and their mother knows the only reason for decreasing wep mats and now acc. mats is because they know people are saying no to their bullshit grind fest and are either leaving or just getting burned out. If people would actually keep the pressure up instead of bending over and being contented with mediocrity we could see a change in the rnging of the game. I'm not asking for a bloody handout. Just balance.

Yea. I for one dont get this bad ping problem I do 100-150ms in na and its grindable and pvpable for me. I'm speaking in general, I'm not applying what happens to me or my friends alone to everything and everyone thats called a bias.

Sorry, I was about to edit my reply to mention that I hit 200-400ms whenever I go to dungeons but the delays are still tolerable lol. I could also agree the RNG is just fine here. It's not even that fun anymore if I get the item after 50 runs tbh. But that's just me. Even if I do it casually the luck is still there. They've increased the number of chests where you can get the items you need despite RNG. Other drops are still worth it. I stopped aiming for the outfits after I noticed they keep on releasing re-skinned ones and recycle those I already own so I'm just waiting for the new releases.

[Susumimi]

The retardedness of SSP pretty much renders your entire argument invalid. This is the single worst, most laggy, toxic, cancerous and nonsensical thing I have ever played in my life. I'd rather play ET on Atari than this BS. The fact they made it mandatory to get moonstones just reinforces the point further. I'm not gonna bother explaining why SSP is the stupidest thing ever, there are probably 100 other threads explaining it.  I have never heard of any other game where there's so much discrimination against melee classes in PvE and a mandatory, mid-tier upgrade material can only be farmed by people with maxed out gear or near-maxed out gear ranged classes. I'd honestly like to see the devs play this mode, with a NON-OVERPOWERED, melee character. Oh wait that probably won't happen, because they probably test everything in this game with some 999 AP character with infinite HP. "Oh this is easy, terrors only do 60k damage and you only need to inflict a million dmg to get credit, I'm sure all the 500AP melees can survive a few dozen shots and get credit easily". "King boar runs around like a rabbit on crack but I'm sure all the melees can teleport everywhere and be invincible to knockdowns and somehow get credit! Yup no problem".

 

I don't care how "good" (even though this game is extremely subpar in every aspect possible other than combat) you think the rest of the game is, the fact that SSP is the most retarded thing invented by video game designers does an excellent job at ruining everything.

 

TL:DR: This game would be 7/10 without the existence of SSP and moonstones can be obtained in actually normal ways. 2/10 thanks to existence of SSP and the only reliable source of moonstones. Absolutely terrible MMO design at its very finest.

[WLraik]

So because other games are completely crap we should be happy with this horrendous RNG system BnS has? 

Completely lack of QoL stuff, I'm a clan leader and can't even see an activities log, WTF???????????????????

Playing alts? Forget about it.

 

It's the same "A is worse than B". Ok, it doesn't make B a good thing.

[Brand X]

9 hours ago, SoulsHunter said:

I don't know about others, but my issue is actually there is no max AP cap for dungeons. How am I supposed to play a game when I enter a level 45 dungeon but my party is filled with 50hm8 with their crazy AP? I imagine it will be same for the lower level 50 dungeons. I got carried, that's all. So I'm supposed to be carried from now on all the way to endgame or all the way until I decide to quit the game? And during this process I will definitely meet people who will insult me while they are carrying me (calling me noob, leecher). Excuse me, you are overgeared of course you will not die, while me challenging the dungeon at correct gear have to deal with these lazy people who just want to dps down all the dungeon without really playing the game. Great experience in a game huh?

Those who say they're carrying you, are just bad people :p  I got called noob and said I was being carried, by someone who decided to attack the boss while I was still crossing the fire wall area.  :p

 

Nevermind that there are players who won't wait for everyone to get through the loading screens.  Which is a problem on some dungeons.

 

I'll never say I'm carrying someone when I log in and do a low level dungeon for the daily :p  I also, always wait for them :p

[United17]

Played Star Wars since it launched almost 5 years ago, I've spent more money here than in 5 years there, including being a sub the entire time.

Played quite a bit of TERA, again almost 3 years there, again more money here than in the entire 3 years there, I'm still subscribed as Elite there, I don't even have to spend real money on ANYTHING anymore in TERA.

They game is easy yes. Especially if you compare raids in Star Wars to hard dungeons here. BnS players would have a heart attack in a Star Wars raid. It being easy is one of the problems not a pro bud.

This game is the most blatant P2W I've ever seen...hands down.

PvP is balanced eh? LOL this has GOT to be a joke on your part but I see you're playing a Blade Master (only character?) so ya you probably think it's damn well balanced, lul.

In Star Wars I've had the same gear on my main for almost a year without having to do ANYTHING to it. I can make an alt now have it level capped and in the EXACT same gear as my main in less than 48 hours, same with TERA and I can do it all without spending a dime outside of a sub cost besides TERA where I now buy Elite with in-game gold (haven't spent a dime of real money in 6 months).

 

Does anyone PLAY those MMOs you listed besides WoW???? I haven't heard of most of them and the ones I have heard of I wouldn't touch.