Valiant

I'm sick of your love for Blade Dance and hate for Destroyer (I'm sick of your developing path for both classes)

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Valiant   

Till when you going to the little lyn class, I not talking about the little summoner but i do talk about the crap little Blade dancer.
 

I will compare this lyn class to Destroyer, Cause I'm sick of this for real:

1- First thing I will start by is their grab  , Yes their stupid designed grab :

Destroyer : Require CC , Got no special damage effect in it , Apply Resistant effect, Useless Badge gave 2 more second on it.

Blade Cancer : Require no CC, Able to do some nice damage and is very effective in pvp if someone lagged or got delay or got by surprise, Apply Resistant effect, Very useful Badge that make them able to reset it very effective in Open world/6v6 cause no CC and can be rested. 

 

2- Their Hurl effect that work during grab:

Destroyer: Require 3 stupid skill point to be wasted to apply Unconscious effect, Cast is very slow and is very easy to counter , So it useless and require tons of skill point.

Blade Cancer : Require no skill point to active it effect , Very fast cast and hard to counter.

 

3- Iframe and immune :
Destroyer : 2 main Iframe, 12 Second and 24 second you can add to them a 45 or 1 min Iframe Spin, 1 min Spin is broken and bugged can be broken easily cause of gap window between spins.

Blade cancer : 3 main Iframe with 8 second Cooldown, immune for 5 second or 5 hits every 30 second, Immune for 2 second every 30 second after spin, 

4- Shape of skill tree and CC

Destroyer : First I won't even I will talk about the stupid skill tree design, Either to pick a knee with short CD that make knockdown or pick Knee with aggro effect and no KD or a pull Daze skill , Destroyer almost all of their CC have long cooldown.

Blade Cancer : They don't have a stupid designed tree, The most hard for them either pick for immune or daze pull, They able to pin down any Class into knockdown status, Most of their Cc can be applied twice into one combo making them able to cc boss with one cc not like destroyer who need double cc to make a cc lock over Bosses.

 

5- Damage and movement :
Destroyer : Slow moving class, Stupid designed RMB/LMB Dps, The lowest damage among all classes,  Can make a good 100-0 every 45 second using fury in 1v1.

Blade Cancer :Very fast moving class, Easy to move around while putting good damage, Average damage, Able to make 100-0 with a good every 30 second in 1v1 

 

 

 

So what the hell is going on ? Till when you going to prefer Blade dancer over Destroyer ?

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Fredski   

i have 722 Ap des and its sadness when i have lowest dmg :F and Bd have more usefull cc and mobilty ;/ shame 

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Qei   

Err better u go reroll to blade dancer or just stop playing. Even me as silent reader here already remember of how u keep whining about destroyer vs blade dancer or assassin every 2 weeks. 

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Valiant   
10 hours ago, Qei said:

Err better u go reroll to blade dancer or just stop playing. Even me as silent reader here already remember of how u keep whining about destroyer vs blade dancer or assassin every 2 weeks. 

So people can't whining about something wrong that they see ?

I can't reroll not at this point of game for me, And all I ask for they just make a good change and stop giving them the boost and we some shit useless slightly damage increase  

Well they did change something,A nerf for our spin and little damage increase that almost not noticeable over our RMB

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Not like the average BD or Destro actually use skills outside of their spin. PVP and Arena that is all they do is spin.. i'm waiting for them to spin themselves into the ground.

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Grimoir   

Have you ever thought just for a second that damage isnt everything? I rather a destroyer does less damage but cc's / grabs the boss for everyone else to do more damage.

Its how much you contribute to the parties success and not how many times you hit a boss.

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Sikanda   
5 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Have you ever thought just for a second that damage isnt everything? I rather a destroyer does less damage but cc's / grabs the boss for everyone else to do more damage.

Its how much you contribute to the parties success and not how many times you hit a boss.

Go solo yeti with just CC's and no iframes

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Grimoir   
1 minute ago, Sikanda said:

Go solo yeti with just CC's and no iframes

Why would you even solo that place since everyone got the title and achievement the cheated way anyway?

Plus i do know of some destroyers that actually did it so......proves a point right?

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its not so long ago when bds were at the very bottom of the popularity ladder (talking about pve). Before restraint i was flamed more than once for grabbing boss when summ/destr were in the pug. (fack your crap grab, i cant even target it/noob, let destro grab, it gives more dmg/you messed up my rotation/bd zero party skills/Naryu Lab 4man 500+ NO bd)

 

and now, when bds get some love, destros are mad. okok.

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Rokusan   

Destroyers do not need anymore buffs in damage. In PvE you have a disadvantage but in PvP you're a big pain to go up against. I feel the same way with blade dancers. Your PvE is underwhelming that I can empathize with but if they buff your damage you're gonna become even more broken that fire BMs this patch.

 

4 hours ago, Grimoir said:

Why would you even solo that place since everyone got the title and achievement the cheated way anyway?

Plus i do know of some destroyers that actually did it so......proves a point right?

I didn't cheat. I got it pure solo after they nerfed Yeti's HP YASSSSSSSSS :D

 

It makes me proud that I got it the legit way.

Edited by Rokusan

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Skilled Des is really good dps. I have seen destroyers being on 2nd or 3rd in dps meter in dungeons where the boss keeps jumping around. 

 

I assume you have never played BD. Yes you can grab mobs without ccing but bosses? Never. You have to cc the bosses in order to be able to phantom grip. And let's be honest. No one is going to give a shit if you grab normal mobs because they die fast anyway. In pvp yes it is annoying but as you said des can 100-0 with good stun catch combo anyway.

 

Is there really a major difference between bd and des? Yes. Des is not nearly as squishy as BDs so it's obvious devs would give them more ways to survive.

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Said   
43 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

I have seen destroyers being on 2nd or 3rd in dps meter in dungeons where the boss keeps jumping around. 

Wow, thats an achievement,,, did he got a medal?

 

Ok, now serious.

First, Destroyer skill tree is outdated. Class is outdated as *cricket*.

Second. I dont see any big postive changes for destro in near future. Destroyer will have some tiny buffs in 2 nearest patches (july and august ones), but class will remain broken.

Third. Long-term perspective changes like legendary soul shields and badges wouldnt change much. Latest korean tops are still FMs, Sins and others.

 

Conclusion: if nothing will change - destroyers will stay worst class for group and solo PVE.

 

If NC west wouldnt tell NC soft that destroyers are really pissed off about current class condition and NC soft wouldnt do anything about it, then ppl will just quit.

There is no point in investing time or money into "dead horse" class.

 

PPl wouldnt sit and wait for some far away patches with new badges and stuff, where destro still will be 10% less sucking, but still last class to pick for group. So NC soft/west would better start doing something about it right now.

Edited by Said

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Sikanda   
5 hours ago, Grimoir said:

Why would you even solo that place since everyone got the title and achievement the cheated way anyway?

Plus i do know of some destroyers that actually did it so......proves a point right?

Any proof? video? If you have i'd like to see it. Thanks

Edited by Sikanda

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Valiant   
3 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

Skilled Des is really good dps. I have seen destroyers being on 2nd or 3rd in dps meter in dungeons where the boss keeps jumping around. 

 

I assume you have never played BD. Yes you can grab mobs without ccing but bosses? Never. You have to cc the bosses in order to be able to phantom grip. And let's be honest. No one is going to give a shit if you grab normal mobs because they die fast anyway. In pvp yes it is annoying but as you said des can 100-0 with good stun catch combo anyway.

 

Is there really a major difference between bd and des? Yes. Des is not nearly as squishy as BDs so it's obvious devs would give them more ways to survive.

First, If you see a Destroyer at 2nd or 3rd spot either other classes doing something wrong or Destroyer never grab and haver higher ap than them.
Second, Seem like you didn't read what I said early in this post, Bosses require cc and Bd able to use one skill that double cc of same type while destroyer use two different skills to make same cc combo, tell me more.
 

Third, Both are squishy right, Destroyer is the squishy slow class while Blade cancer on other hand at least have more speed buffs and immune skills with short more Iframes.

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5 minutes ago, Valiant said:

First, If you see a Destroyer at 2nd or 3rd spot either other classes doing something wrong or Destroyer never grab and haver higher ap than them.
Second, Seem like you didn't read what I said early in this post, Bosses require cc and Bd able to use one skill that double cc of same type while destroyer use two different skills to make same cc combo, tell me more.
 

Third, Both are squishy right, Destroyer is the squishy slow class while Blade cancer on other hand at least have more speed buffs and immune skills with short more Iframes.

Maybe many destros are doing something wrong when they cannot reach high dps. Destros are pretty much depending on anicanceling and of course ping also has role in it.

 

BDs have only one really effective double stun which is their 2 (Rush). Knockdown requires two skills (either 1 and 1 again from far to use Soaring falcon or 1 and 3). Speccing daze is utterly useless since it removes really good skill to enter draw stance unless none of your teammates have it. Most of the time BDs spec only 1 kd and one double stun from which they usually use only the stun because let's be honest no one is going to give a shit if you give them 1 kd. No one will do the other one and most of the time kds can *cricket* up alot in dungeons. Also using any other cc than rush will cause bd to exit draw stance meaning they will be hitting like wet spaghetti the whole dungeon.

 

Also forgot to mention that Maelstrom is only good for speeding up whole party while trying to reach boss. Especially if there is a HM block BM in same party BD should not use Maelstrom as it shares CD with BM's HM block. Using Tab also removes draw stance causing lowering in dps just like all other iframe skills with the exception of Guardian Tempest, q and e. For destros they don't have such skills that would remove important stance not to mention the off to combat bug that has been ongoing for BDs and BMs.

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Nadeko   
18 minutes ago, Valiant said:

Bosses require cc and Bd able to use one skill that double cc of same type while destroyer use two different skills to make same cc combo, tell me more.
 

Third, Both are squishy right, Destroyer is the squishy slow class while Blade cancer on other hand at least have more speed buffs and immune skills with short more Iframes.

Bosses resist often this double cc skill, so it's better when a FM double cc for you. Then a DES can grab the boss at beginning too.

In pve a DPS BD can only use Q,E 12sec cd, SS 8sec cd and groupshild+speedbuff for 3sec, thats it. A DES has in comparison more HP and defense.

So BD is definitly more squishy than DES.

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hwalien   

I have HM9 BM and HM8 DES. currently working on my HM2 BD.

for PVP, BD is like having best of both BM and DES. I know I'm missing few things like all day long blocks or quick kill DES rage(all tho you dont need it to kill someone) but be honest, BD don't need blocks like BM to survive nor need rage to kill someone quick.

I not really good at this game and don't even know much about skill rotations and counter skills like some pro players, but if you ask me compare to other classes I've played BD shouldn't have any complaints.

 

and for those who says BD is squishy, i dont know about pve but in PVP with all the iframes, BD is not squishy at all.

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Play what you love, work at yourself finding different combos that might work better. I played a BD until 30ish and then a destroyer to 29 before level a YUN and GON SF to 46 and 47 respectively in between I leveled a Summoner to HM5 and the a Warlock to HM5 starting my own clan. Then I saw we had one destroyer and I took a bullet for the clan and did all I could to push through the leveling process my Destroyer is my main now and will hit HM7 today once I log in (just got home from work). I am enjoying playing it and everyday I think how I can make myself better for my clan or any pug parties I might join.

 

Most important I am having fun and that is turning into better grabbing times, better dodges, better play in general. I make mistakes of course no one plays perfect but unless I'm with one of my clannies who is a BD and has far better knowledge of the game I've out grabbed BDs in my party, most of the time.
 

Not saying Destroyers don't need love I'll always take love. Not saying the BDs have been given the upper hand, but it's two fold just because a class provides an upper hand doesn't mean the player behind the keyboard understands how to use those to the best of their ability to pull everything they can from a class.

 

I don't like when people call for nerfs and I am not keen on these comparison threads. I figure play what you like. Play with people you like and they won't harp on the fact that you chose Destroyer over BD etc.

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Valiant   
5 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

Maybe many destros are doing something wrong when they cannot reach high dps. Destros are pretty much depending on anicanceling and of course ping also has role in it.

 

BDs have only one really effective double stun which is their 2 (Rush). Knockdown requires two skills (either 1 and 1 again from far to use Soaring falcon or 1 and 3). Speccing daze is utterly useless since it removes really good skill to enter draw stance unless none of your teammates have it. Most of the time BDs spec only 1 kd and one double stun from which they usually use only the stun because let's be honest no one is going to give a shit if you give them 1 kd. No one will do the other one and most of the time kds can *cricket* up alot in dungeons. Also using any other cc than rush will cause bd to exit draw stance meaning they will be hitting like wet spaghetti the whole dungeon.

 

Also forgot to mention that Maelstrom is only good for speeding up whole party while trying to reach boss. Especially if there is a HM block BM in same party BD should not use Maelstrom as it shares CD with BM's HM block. Using Tab also removes draw stance causing lowering in dps just like all other iframe skills with the exception of Guardian Tempest, q and e. For destros they don't have such skills that would remove important stance not to mention the off to combat bug that has been ongoing for BDs and BMs.

God, Ani cancel is not that Op

You know what the hell the use of Ani cancel for destroyer ? just pure focus regain mechanisms, the only useful ani cancel that happen after throw down from grab or Fury cause you active another LMB 
Otherwise and outside of that 30 and 45 second bonus skill over LMB, Destroyer hardly able to pull a 3.5 to 4k dps every second add to them that bonus of 4k dps mean a 8k dps in total in second for 6 second or 3 second every 45 or 30 second.
While check how much damage can a KFM/BM/BD/FM/almost every cass except destroyer do pre second outside of their what called finish or their 100-0 skills, even some classes like FM/Summoner/Warlock due to their ranged skills can pull a permanent high dps add to them the new stupid endless Draogntongue that BM can do as well as permanent dps.
 

So tell how our stupid low dps can stand a chance in that mass damage scale ? And you know what made that gab of damage ?

Cause we the only class that is outdated without stupid one stance only, Like almost everyclass got two stance or pure dps while destroyer just a shadow moving low dps build or high not moving earth build that both require fury to achieve the maxium dps that isn't enough.
 

 

4 hours ago, hwalien said:

I have HM9 BM and HM8 DES. currently working on my HM2 BD.

for PVP, BD is like having best of both BM and DES. I know I'm missing few things like all day long blocks or quick kill DES rage(all tho you dont need it to kill someone) but be honest, BD don't need blocks like BM to survive nor need rage to kill someone quick.

I not really good at this game and don't even know much about skill rotations and counter skills like some pro players, but if you ask me compare to other classes I've played BD shouldn't have any complaints.

 

and for those who says BD is squishy, i dont know about pve but in PVP with all the iframes, BD is not squishy at all.

New player and he spoken the truth, God it easy to notice

5 hours ago, Nadeko said:

Bosses resist often this double cc skill, so it's better when a FM double cc for you. Then a DES can grab the boss at beginning too.

In pve a DPS BD can only use Q,E 12sec cd, SS 8sec cd and groupshild+speedbuff for 3sec, thats it. A DES has in comparison more HP and defense.

So BD is definitly more squishy than DES.

More Defense and more HP ? BD can achieve the same HP level of Destroyer maybe less Defense but yes I saw many BD match our HP

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TJXX   
1 hour ago, Valiant said:

God, Ani cancel is not that Op

You know what the hell the use of Ani cancel for destroyer ? just pure focus regain mechanisms, the only useful ani cancel that happen after throw down from grab or Fury cause you active another LMB 
Otherwise and outside of that 30 and 45 second bonus skill over LMB, Destroyer hardly able to pull a 3.5 to 4k dps every second add to them that bonus of 4k dps mean a 8k dps in total in second for 6 second or 3 second every 45 or 30 second.
While check how much damage can a KFM/BM/BD/FM/almost every cass except destroyer do pre second outside of their what called finish or their 100-0 skills, even some classes like FM/Summoner/Warlock due to their ranged skills can pull a permanent high dps add to them the new stupid endless Draogntongue that BM can do as well as permanent dps.
 

So tell how our stupid low dps can stand a chance in that mass damage scale ? And you know what made that gab of damage ?

Cause we the only class that is outdated without stupid one stance only, Like almost everyclass got two stance or pure dps while destroyer just a shadow moving low dps build or high not moving earth build that both require fury to achieve the maxium dps that isn't enough.
 

 

New player and he spoken the truth, God it easy to notice

More Defense and more HP ? BD can achieve the same HP level of Destroyer maybe less Defense but yes I saw many BD match our HP

I do around 20k dps on my destroyer and I've seen others do more... are you playing with a broken weapon?

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FrozenB   

From my point of view, Destroyer is alot more spin-to-win class than BD. BD's spin is just like Des's normal spin, which can be easily countered if you time your skills correctly. However. Des has the red-spin. Des's red spin is the true spin-to-win skill that destroy all the melee classes. When they use red spin, all other melee classes have to step back, watch and wait till his red spin is over. Nothing much we can do about it. I don't see any other melee skills that can be compared with this red spin with permanent resist to everything. Please give BD's red spin as well before you all walk about nerfing BD. BD has been nerfed a lot since the beginning of the game.

 

BD is alot more squishy than Des because they lack of defense. Also, Des has a blocking skill, but BD only has a parry spin to block, which is not really reliable (Sometimes it block, sometimes it doesn't). In term of dps, BD has to go into draw stance with electro to do high DPS. Without electro, even draw stance doesn't give much DPS (maybe slightly higher than spamming rmb wind sunder). If BD wants highest DPS output, they have to sacrifice alot of iframe skills like x, v, z, and tab. Then, BD only has ss, E, and Q for iframe, in which E and Q is very squishy and not reliable in PVE. 

 

People said all other classes have high dps. Well, it is true in term of PVE with current new skill patch. However, who care about PVE? It is not like you have to solo every single heroic dungeons all by yourself. The DPS meter is used to see how good you are by improving your combo and timing and is for other people to see who is slacking off. Why do people want to be at the top in the DPS meter in every single dungeon? Do they earn extra items? No. People are complaining about low DPS on Des because they want their Des to out-DPS warlock or even the buffed BM now? They should keep dreaming. Also, I have been with the good Des players in dungeon and their DPS is usually around 22k-28k/sec, considering that they have to use their grab occasionally as well. I don't see how and why they are in low DPS.

 

In term of PVP, I think good Des is more scary than summoner in 6v6 or 3v3. Des with red spin can kill a whole party solo if the enemies don't have strong range DPS. Summoners is more like crowd control. Once their cat is put into unconscious or dead, they are not scary anymore.

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If you want balancing there should be a pvp and pve skill tree in your martial tome. Pve and pvp should be divided; if you want to participate in pvp you will have to use a pvp skill tree with revised stats/skills... same goes for pve. 

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Windy   

Is normal that the destro have less dps.The amount of cc they can do would be too much if they would rly have more dps.( I had today in Whirlwind a HM lvl 6 destro with blue pve shield and he was actually doing a surprisingly good job .He could do a damn good cc +red spin +spin to win even more ,so he was a damn real danger .) I can tell you destroyer is good as it is ,needs nothing to be added.

And about the dps race in dungeons : once a friend told me his motto : ''I'm not here to dps -I'm here for the loot'' and he had right xD -guess is a good motto-no one gets you a medal for dps more :D

Edited by Windy

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18 hours ago, SilentOne said:

its not so long ago when bds were at the very bottom of the popularity ladder (talking about pve). Before restraint i was flamed more than once for grabbing boss when summ/destr were in the pug. (fack your crap grab, i cant even target it/noob, let destro grab, it gives more dmg/you messed up my rotation/bd zero party skills/Naryu Lab 4man 500+ NO bd)

 

and now, when bds get some love, destros are mad. okok.

I totally agree with this! Finally some love to lyn blade dancers and u see a  hord of destroyers QQ. Pls, u can always get another class and yes I prefer a blade dancer in the pt than a destroyer cos they also give pt iframe unlike destroyers. Cry more.

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Valiant   
21 hours ago, TJXX said:

I do around 20k dps on my destroyer and I've seen others do more... are you playing with a broken weapon?

Are you using legendary weapon  ? And btw I do talk about the pure dps without any crit damage on it, Like the raw damage written over your skill.

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